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Thread: Banned in childhood....

  1. #1
    Cyburbian martini's avatar
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    Banned in childhood....

    First it was tag. Or was it Dodgeball? Then, evidently, stories about pigs[Crap! who are we offending now!?]. Now, Seattlites are banning Lego's, that venerable old toy that so many of us love and cherished when we were young.

    http://www.rethinkingschools.org/arc.../lego212.shtml

    http://article.nationalreview.com/pr...kwZTQ0MmJhNWE=

    Ironincally enough, it seems the banning is stemming from mostly thoughtfull play with urban planning at its youngest. At its base, the ban is formed on an 'ownership' issue that seems like it can boiled down the 'haves' and 'have nots'. Um, in other words, LIFE. While the teachers decision is well reasoned, I still find fault in the form of the lesson. A complete ban? Of a toy as so obviously useful for many forms of learning and creativity? C'mon!

    Discuss.....
    You're more boring than you know.

  2. #2
    Cyburbian mgk920's avatar
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    Quote Originally posted by martini View post
    First it was tag. Or was it Dodgeball? Then, evidently, stories about pigs[Crap! who are we offending now!?]. Now, Seattlites are banning Lego's, that venerable old toy that so many of us love and cherished when we were young.

    http://www.rethinkingschools.org/arc.../lego212.shtml

    http://article.nationalreview.com/pr...kwZTQ0MmJhNWE=

    Ironincally enough, it seems the banning is stemming from mostly thoughtfull play with urban planning at its youngest. At its base, the ban is formed on an 'ownership' issue that seems like it can boiled down the 'haves' and 'have nots'. Um, in other words, LIFE. While the teachers decision is well reasoned, I still find fault in the form of the lesson. A complete ban? Of a toy as so obviously useful for many forms of learning and creativity? C'mon!

    Discuss.....
    I know of many places that prohibit keeping score during kids' league sports (ie, T-league baseball). You know, keeping score means that there will be a loser and we just can't hurt their fragile self-images in that manner.

    What made me LOL about that local British ban on 'pig' stories (because they just might offend a Muslim in the crowd) and substituting 'dog' stories is that if I recall correctly, Muslim hotheads hold dogs in similar regards as they hold pigs.



    And yet we let kids, especially those whom are just starting their 'raging hormones' phase, dress pretty much however they want to, no matter how many people they might offend.

    Mike

  3. #3
    Cyburbian illinoisplanner's avatar
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    This is ridiculous. I am so sick and tired of people banning things for all because one or two people might be offended or hurt. Well, too f'ing bad.

    This is a complete violation of the freedom of expression, and I'm sorry, but as they are Americans, I believe the Constitution shall apply to schoolchildren as well.
    "Life's a journey, not a destination"
    -Steven Tyler

  4. #4
    Super Moderator kjel's avatar
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    That's stupid. What ever happened to teaching kids to play fair, learn to share, and take turns?
    "He defended the cause of the poor and needy, and so all went well. Is that not what it means to know me?" Jeremiah 22:16

  5. #5
    Cyburbian Flying Monkeys's avatar
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    From article: An ordinary person might recognize this as child’s play. But the social theorists at Hilltop saw something else: “The children were building their assumptions about ownership and the social power it conveys — assumptions that mirrored those of a class-based, capitalist society — a society that we teachers believe to be unjust and oppressive.”


    What a load of BS ! These guys are worse than planners headed for the peace corp !

    The teachers belive that a capitalist society is unjust and oppressive, can you say 'good job comrade'?

    This kinda cr*p almost makes me want to be a George Bush supporter....
    What’s in a name? – Your reputation….:)

  6. #6
    Cyburbian
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    Why not simply tell these kids that they'll share Legos, and, after they found the demolished models, "Put them in the box and start over." These enlightened teachers failed to teach an important fact - adults are in charge. Jeez.

  7. #7
    It's even more ironic if you know that "lego" is a contraction of the danish words for "play" and "good".

  8. #8
    Cyburbian GeogPlanner's avatar
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    The failed lesson here is that on urban redevelopment of blighted areas. These children clearly neglected Legotown as they went to thier "weekend homes" and when they returned, the area was blighted by the weekend program of children. The teachers should have allowed for areas to be demolished and gentrified. That would have been a better lesson...
    Information necessitating a change of design will be conveyed to the designer after and only after the design is complete. (Often called the 'Now They Tell Us' Law) - Fyfe's First Law of Revision

    We don't believe in planners and deciders making the decisions on behalf of Americans. -- George W. Bush , Scranton, PA -- 09/06/2000

  9. #9
    Cyburbian Flying Monkeys's avatar
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    Quote Originally posted by GeogPlanner View post
    The failed lesson here is that on urban redevelopment of blighted areas. These children clearly neglected Legotown as they went to thier "weekend homes" and when they returned, the area was blighted by the weekend program of children. The teachers should have allowed for areas to be demolished and gentrified. That would have been a better lesson...
    LOL....LOL. We should start an 'alternate take on the news' like a caption contest.
    What’s in a name? – Your reputation….:)

  10. #10
    Unfrozen Caveman Planner mendelman's avatar
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    I agree with kjelsadek and kms. The teachers should have just said that since the pieces have been "redistributed", then the play starts over and no one "owns" the pieces.

    Also, these kids are going to have to live in the capitalist world when they growup anyways. They should learn that life is unfair and things and status changes without their consent.

    God...I hope the daycare for my future mendelboy doesn't get like this. And I live in a soical progressive/liberal suburb of Chicago.

    Do Montessori schools have this tendency?
    I'm sorry. Is my bias showing?

    The ends can justify the means.

  11. #11
    Cyburbian Planderella's avatar
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    Why do I get the impression that the teachers left out some important facts of this Lego game like whose idea was it to build a "sprawling of Lego houses, grocery stores, fish-and-chips stands, fire stations, and coffee shops" in the first place?
    "A witty woman is a treasure, a witty beauty is a power!"

  12. #12
    Cyburbian Plus
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    Next they will ban lining up -
    because some child would develop an potentially superior ego/image about being first,
    and think of the poor child that is last in line.
    Oddball
    Why don't you knock it off with them negative waves?
    Why don't you dig how beautiful it is out here?
    Why don't you say something righteous and hopeful for a change?
    From Kelly's Heroes (1970)


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    No. Just some parts wake up faster than others.
    Broke parts take a little longer, though.
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  13. #13
    Cyburbian Joe Iliff's avatar
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    Line leader

    [/FONT]
    Quote Originally posted by JNA View post
    Next they will ban lining up -
    because some child would develop an potentially superior ego/image about being first,
    and think of the poor child that is last in line.
    Actually, they have a job for "line leader" and the rotate through all the students in the class, so it's pre-selected who is to be first and the kids won't fight over it.
    JOE ILIFF
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  14. #14
    Quote Originally posted by kjelsadek View post
    That's stupid. What ever happened to teaching kids to play fair, learn to share, and take turns?

    That's it in a nutshell. That's why we have kids who have no idea how to resolve conflict and build coalitions on their own. Instead of using the situation to promote the above virtues they just take away the item which causes the conflict. They lost a teaching tool here. Didn't we all get told when we were kids that we needed to resolve disagreements among ourselves? I don't recall an adult insinuating themselves into the fracas unless it involved blood and broken bones.

    And these are the same people who bemoan the fact that our children are falling behind those of other countries in certain skills. Of course - when competition and the desire to be the the best at something are squashed (the real meaning of self-esteem) what do you expect?

  15. #15
    Cyburbian zman's avatar
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    This produces poor consequences for the future of society.
    You get all squeezed up inside/Like the days were carved in stone/You get all wired up inside/And it's bad to be alone

    You can go out, you can take a ride/And when you get out on your own/You get all smoothed out inside/And it's good to be alone
    -Peart

  16. #16
    Unfrozen Caveman Planner mendelman's avatar
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    Quote Originally posted by zmanPLAN View post
    This produces poor consequences for the future of society.
    Well, at least for these children in this particular neighborhood.

    Don't be so glum, my friend.
    I'm sorry. Is my bias showing?

    The ends can justify the means.

  17. #17
    Cyburbian zman's avatar
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    Quote Originally posted by mendelman View post
    Don't be so glum, my friend.
    This all reminds me of the school Bart and Lisa went to when Homer got transferred to the Globex Corporation.
    You get all squeezed up inside/Like the days were carved in stone/You get all wired up inside/And it's bad to be alone

    You can go out, you can take a ride/And when you get out on your own/You get all smoothed out inside/And it's good to be alone
    -Peart

  18. #18
    Unfrozen Caveman Planner mendelman's avatar
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    Off-topic:
    Quote Originally posted by zmanPLAN View post
    This all reminds me of the school Bart and Lisa went to when Homer got transferred to the Globex Corporation.
    Best. Episode. Ever.
    I'm sorry. Is my bias showing?

    The ends can justify the means.

  19. #19
    Cyburbian
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    This is so ridiculous that it can only compare to what math education is like in the US now...

    Check out Math Education: An Inconvenient Truth for details. (It's 15 minutes long)

    Banning children games just because one (or a few) kid(s) lose and can affect them negatively is stupid... whatever happened to perseverance? You won't always win in life.. and what kind of education is the one that raises you in a bubble of equality and good things... the real world IS unfair, so why hide it from kids... the lesson shouldn't be "you can't lose/ you will always get what you want" but rather "you have to fight to win and to get what you want"

  20. #20
    Cyburbian wahday's avatar
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    Whoa. This is just bizarre. Clearly this enterprise of lego building presented some conflict and, by extension, useful learning opportunities, but I fail to see that banning them solves the problem, or that the same issues won't arise agin in the form of access to the jungle gym or sand shovels.

    Is the object at fault? Or is it the social behavior stemming from it that deserves attention? I personally do not advocate the "law of the schoolyard" in these situations as I feel one of the roles of teachers and the classroom are to establish rules of conduct that emphasize inclusion, sharing, etc. - these are not miniature adults, afterall, but young people figuring out how to behave responsibly. Banning the legos, in my mind, lifts responsibility from the children to police and monitor their own behavior and moves the blame to the objects. It also "punishes" everyone in the class, regardless of their role.

    At the planning level, there was also a great opportunity to engage the kids in some level of understanding of what happens in the adult world of building and development. But banning the materials? That's just silly. I could even see them being removed for some period of time (no lego building for the next two weeks, then lay down some clear ground rules when they are reintroduced), but this is just disappointing.
    The purpose of life is a life of purpose

  21. #21
    Cyburbian Otis's avatar
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    Quote Originally posted by JNA View post
    Next they will ban lining up -
    because some child would develop an potentially superior ego/image about being first,
    and think of the poor child that is last in line.
    My last name starts with a "T" and in school I always thought it was unfair to do things like lining up in alphabetical order. But I do think lining up by height is much more fair as long as the tall people get to be in front.

  22. #22
    Cyburbian GeogPlanner's avatar
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    Why Our Preschools Are Going To Hell...

    This thread should be retitled...
    Information necessitating a change of design will be conveyed to the designer after and only after the design is complete. (Often called the 'Now They Tell Us' Law) - Fyfe's First Law of Revision

    We don't believe in planners and deciders making the decisions on behalf of Americans. -- George W. Bush , Scranton, PA -- 09/06/2000

  23. #23
    I think you guys are reading WAY too much into this, you must have a lot of time on your hands as I do. Lighten up a little ... let the school folks do their thing and we planners can do our thing. Trust me... most people do NOT understand the rational for planning and zoning. Don't be so fast to pass judgment on others. Oh and IP don't try and shove the constitution down my throat. Don't report me to the folks who enforce the Patriot Act.... and no... I am not politically correct and I'm not very patriotic either....... even with my 12 years of military service.

    Moderator note:
    Planificador Urbano, your personal shot was totally uncalled for - I don't see where Illinoisplanner was shoving anything down your throat - he was merely expressing his opinion on the issue as is his (and your) right.

    Last edited by Tranplanner; 05 Apr 2007 at 4:28 PM.

  24. #24
    Cyburbian Flying Monkeys's avatar
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    I do not give my own profession a break, why am I going to give teachers a break? This is not teaching. What kid that age understands why you took his legos away unless it is clear and defined, such as 'You have been bad, therefore no more Legos for you". He will not understand "I am taking away your Legos because they are teaching you to be competitive and reinforce your capitalist belief in property rights."

    BS....call it what it is... BS.

    I think this school deserves some type of protest from the parents, unless of course they are all wacko also! Life is short, let kids be kids, comrade.
    What’s in a name? – Your reputation….:)

  25. #25
    Cyburbian michaelskis's avatar
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    So, let me get this right... The Youth of the nation:
    Which on average is over weight but we can’t tell them because it would hurt their self-esteem;
    Has been proven to be the most self centered and selfish generation of all time;
    Is not permitted to do much of anything that could resemble physical activity because they might end up getting injured;
    Is not permitted to keep score or have any conceptual possession of a toy and therefore not able to learn sharing skills; and
    Is not permitted to rough house therefore limit their conflict resolution skills.

    Yet these same kids will go home, drink a case of soda, watch cable TV and play video games all night.

    We would not want them to do chores because hey, they are just kids and they don’t need to learn how cold and cruel the world is until they finish there 7th year of their undergrad program...

    I swear, it is truly amazing that I have ten toes and ten fingers, two legs, two arms, two eyes, and I am still up-right and alive.
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