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Thread: Ethanol! A killer?

  1. #1
    Cyburbian Jess's avatar
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    Ethanol! A killer?

    Ethanol was presumed to be an alternative fuel to reduce greenhouse effect, however, there were studies in Los Angeles area stating that it is one of the causes of deaths from inhalation of fuel emissions containing ethanol. If that is the case, why it was still used and even been promoted to transform vehicles using ethanol? Do all of you guys believe on this? What do you think?

  2. #2
    Cyburbian Brocktoon's avatar
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    Quote Originally posted by Jess View post
    Ethanol was presumed to be an alternative fuel to reduce greenhouse effect, however, there were studies in Los Angeles area stating that it is one of the causes of deaths from inhalation of fuel emissions containing ethanol. If that is the case, why it was still used and even been promoted to transform vehicles using ethanol? Do all of you guys believe on this? What do you think?
    If you turn on your car car in a closed garage you can kill yourself regardless of the fuel.

    I think ethanols problems are much greater than a few people sucking on a tail pipe.
    "If you don't like change, you're going to like irrelevance even less" General Eric Shinseki

  3. #3
    Cyburbian
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    Can you link us to the study?

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    Cyburbian Jess's avatar
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    Quote Originally posted by gsys View post
    Can you link us to the study?
    Go to Google search, type Mark Z. Jacobson, then click on item "Mark Z. Jacobson, Stanford University". I tried to link the original page but it says it was moved.

  5. #5
    Quote Originally posted by gsys View post
    Can you link us to the study?
    Here is a link directly to the PDF version of the study. (If you don't have Acrobat Reader, you can check out the Google cache.)

    From the abstract:
    It was found that E85 (85% ethanol fuel, 15% gasoline) may increase ozone-related mortality, hospitalization, and asthma by about 9% in Los Angeles and 4% in the U.S. as a whole relative to 100% gasoline. . . . Due to its ozone effects, future E85 may be a greater overall public health risk than gasoline. However, because of the uncertainty in future emission regulations, it can be concluded with confidence only that E85 is unlikely to improve air quality over future gasoline vehicles. Unburned ethanol emissions from E85 may result in a global-scale source of acetaldehyde larger than that of direct emissions.

  6. #6
    Cyburbian The One's avatar
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    Hmmm.....

    I wonder who funded this study......hmmm......smells like big oil to me.....
    Skilled Adoxographer

  7. #7
    Cyburbian Brocktoon's avatar
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    And here I was thinking some did a study of sucides using E85.

    Many Western states use 10% ethanol in the gas to help with air quality in the summer months. This is the only way Phoenix could reduce its ozone totals to comply with the EPA's mandates.
    "If you don't like change, you're going to like irrelevance even less" General Eric Shinseki

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    Quote Originally posted by Brocktoon View post
    And here I was thinking some did a study of sucides using E85.

    Many Western states use 10% ethanol in the gas to help with air quality in the summer months. This is the only way Phoenix could reduce its ozone totals to comply with the EPA's mandates.
    Phoenix is not in attainment of CAA ozone standards. So, I don't believe that is supporting evidence against the study.

  9. #9
    Cyburbian Brocktoon's avatar
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    Quote Originally posted by Cthings View post
    Phoenix is not in attainment of CAA ozone standards. So, I don't believe that is supporting evidence against the study.
    Not true in the case of ozone. The EPA reclassified the Phoenix area in 2005.

    Maricopa County 1-hour Ozone Nonattainment Area
    On May 20, 2005, EPA redesignated the Phoenix metropolitan area to attainment of the 1-hour national air quality standard for ground-level ozone, the primary component of smog, and approved the attainment demonstration and maintenance plan which shows maintenance of the one-hour ozone standard through 2015. Phoenix has not exceeded the 1-hour ozone standard in the last eight years, despite its growth into one of the country's major metropolitan areas.

    http://www.maricopa.gov/aq/divisions...tion_plan.aspx

    Unless I am misreading this the Phoenix area is meeting CAA requirement for ozone. Particulate matter is another story.
    "If you don't like change, you're going to like irrelevance even less" General Eric Shinseki

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    Quote Originally posted by Brocktoon View post
    Not true in the case of ozone. The EPA reclassified the Phoenix area in 2005.

    Maricopa County 1-hour Ozone Nonattainment Area
    On May 20, 2005, EPA redesignated the Phoenix metropolitan area to attainment of the 1-hour national air quality standard for ground-level ozone, the primary component of smog, and approved the attainment demonstration and maintenance plan which shows maintenance of the one-hour ozone standard through 2015. Phoenix has not exceeded the 1-hour ozone standard in the last eight years, despite its growth into one of the country's major metropolitan areas.

    http://www.maricopa.gov/aq/divisions...tion_plan.aspx

    Unless I am misreading this the Phoenix area is meeting CAA requirement for ozone. Particulate matter is another story.
    There are two CAA standards for ozone - 1hr and 8hr. The 1 hr has recently been eliminated because it does not give an accurate measure in terms of public health. Phoenix does not meet the 8-hr standard, and what's worse, the EPA is set to make the standard more stringent in June.

    http://www.epa.gov/region09/air/ozon...ons/index.html

    http://www.azcentral.com/news/articl...ozone0501.html

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    Cyburbia Administrator Dan's avatar
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    Moderator note:
    Cthings, for new users, we moderate posts that include URLs, to prevent spam. Sorry for the inconvenience.

  12. #12
    Cyburbian Brocktoon's avatar
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    Quote Originally posted by Cthings View post
    There are two CAA standards for ozone - 1hr and 8hr. The 1 hr has recently been eliminated because it does not give an accurate measure in terms of public health. Phoenix does not meet the 8-hr standard, and what's worse, the EPA is set to make the standard more stringent in June.

    http://www.epa.gov/region09/air/ozon...ons/index.html

    http://www.azcentral.com/news/articl...ozone0501.html
    Good to know. I was surprised when I learned Phoenix was passing its ozone requirements. I remeber in the summer of 2004 (my last year in the Valley) when every other day was an ozone warning.
    "If you don't like change, you're going to like irrelevance even less" General Eric Shinseki

  13. #13

    one word...

    ...biodiesel. Imagine, the whole country smelling of french fries....

  14. #14
    Cyburbian KSharpe's avatar
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    There was a scientist on NPR last week (forgive me, can't remember name) who said that basically ethanol produces more greenhouse gases than regular gasolene. It's only benefit is that its renewable; however, long term we will have to come up with something else.
    Do you want to pet my monkey?

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    Cyburbian Jess's avatar
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    Quote Originally posted by KSharpe View post
    .....It's only benefit is that its renewable; however, long term we will have to come up with something else...
    .. of which the author of the study, Mr. M. Jacobson advocates the use of solar energy, hoping that most cars will soon use solar powered batteries..., isn't it??

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