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Thread: This is MADRID [Broadband Recommended]

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    This is MADRID [Broadband Recommended]

    Is Madrid underrated? Barcelona seems to have established the higher profile ever since the '92 Olympics...a shame me thinks!

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    Last edited by Mastiff; 07 May 2007 at 2:12 AM.

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    Cyburbian mgk920's avatar
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    Madrid is a very impressive city in Europe and has emerged very well from its dictatorship years of the mid-20th century. There is much new tall-building construction under way, along with a mind-boggling removal of a central-city freeway. To return a river to the 'city' with additional parkland, they are removing an old freeway that straddles it and placing it entirely underground, complete with a major free-flow interchange with cross freeway. Parts of that project are already complete and open.

    Mike

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    These pics aren't appearing for me in the original post.




    Quote Originally posted by mgk920 View post
    Madrid is a very impressive city in Europe and has emerged very well from its dictatorship years of the mid-20th century. There is much new tall-building construction under way, along with a mind-boggling removal of a central-city freeway. To return a river to the 'city' with additional parkland, they are removing an old freeway that straddles it and placing it entirely underground, complete with a major free-flow interchange with cross freeway. Parts of that project are already complete and open.

    Mike
    Interesting.
    I heard Madrid also had a speed record for their subway expansion projects.

  4. #4
    Cyburbian jresta's avatar
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    I love it. It's got less parking than the grocery store down the street.
    http://www.telefonica.net/web/j0rge/ssc/010.jpg
    Last edited by Gedunker; 07 May 2007 at 8:21 AM. Reason: leeched image (posted in original)
    Indeed you can usually tell when the concepts of democracy and citizenship are weakening. There is an increase in the role of charity and in the worship of volunteerism. These represent the élite citizen's imitation of noblesse oblige; that is, of pretending to be aristocrats or oligarchs, as opposed to being citizens.

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    Cyburbian Howard Roark's avatar
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    Central Madrid is great, but the fringes of the city look like a North American sunbelt sprawler, complete w/ giant big boxes, I was shocked, Barca (the city not the footbal club) is much more compact.
    She has been a bad girl, she is like a chemical, though you try and stop it she is like a narcotic.

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    Cyburbian CJC's avatar
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    Quote Originally posted by Howard Roark View post
    Central Madrid is great, but the fringes of the city look like a North American sunbelt sprawler, complete w/ giant big boxes, I was shocked, Barca (the city not the footbal club) is much more compact.
    Agreed. Central Madrid is a great place, but the sprawl is out of control near the fringes. Nothing comparable exists in Barcelona.

    Also, for me personally, the weather in Barcelona is only about a billion times better than Madrid.

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    Quote Originally posted by CJC View post
    Agreed. Central Madrid is a great place, but the sprawl is out of control near the fringes. Nothing comparable exists in Barcelona.
    I wouldn't use the words 'out of control' to describe any sprawl in Madrid.

    Madrid has a larger metro population than, say, Houston, but the area Houston's urban development occupies is far larger than Madrid's.


    These maps are on the same scale.

    Quote Originally posted by CJC View post
    Also, for me personally, the weather in Barcelona is only about a billion times better than Madrid.
    Madrid has a 'four seasons' climate (most years).

    It therefore has a greater average temperature than Barcelona's which only experiences snow every 20-30 years.Barcelona also experiences more rainfall than Madrid.

    Skiing/Snowboarding in the nearby mountains is also an option in Madrid over the winter months.



    ...Mastiff: I used a "free" hosting service for these pics...Is that legit?...thanks.

    Quote Originally posted by gonzo View post
    It therefore has a greater average temperature than Barcelona's which only experiences snow every 20-30 years.
    *lower*

    ....(need to make post longer)

    Quote Originally posted by Howard Roark View post
    Central Madrid is great, but the fringes of the city look like a North American sunbelt sprawler, complete w/ giant big boxes, I was shocked, Barca (the city not the footbal club) is much more compact.
    Though sprawl in Madrid is much less extreme than in N. America, I think the fact that the city offers a variety of urban atmospheres is a positive and gives the city a more international/cosmopolitan feel than, say, Barcelona.
    Last edited by NHPlanner; 15 May 2007 at 10:39 AM. Reason: triple reply

  8. #8
    Quote Originally posted by gonzo View post
    ...Mastiff: I used a "free" hosting service for these pics...Is that legit?...thanks.
    Yup! Imageshack is your friend

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    Hosted pics of Madrid









    Airport


    Trainstation


    City surroundings

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    Cyburbian CJC's avatar
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    Quote Originally posted by gonzo View post
    I wouldn't use the words 'out of control' to describe any sprawl in Madrid.

    Madrid has a larger metro population than, say, Houston, but the area Houston's urban development occupies is far larger than Madrid's.
    Comparing Madrid to Houston is ridiculous. Any city in the world will appear better than Houston in terms of sprawl, with the possible exception of Atlanta. You could show a picture of Phoenix next to Houston and say "See, look! Phoenix isn't nearly as bad as Houston!" I was speaking of Madrid compared to other European cities. The sprawl on the fringes of Madrid is the worst North American-style sprawl that I have seen in Europe.



    Madrid has a 'four seasons' climate (most years).
    True, and many people may like the climate in Madrid, but I don't. I live in a very mild city here, and Barcelona is probably the closest climate to San Francisco of any major city in the world. Not a knock against Madrid, just personal preference on may part.

    It therefore has a greater average temperature than Barcelona's which only experiences snow every 20-30 years.Barcelona also experiences more rainfall than Madrid.
    Two negatives for me - I don't like hot (above 80 F) or cold (below 45 F). Barcelona experiences very few times exceeding those temps.

    Though sprawl in Madrid is much less extreme than in N. America, I think the fact that the city offers a variety of urban atmospheres is a positive and gives the city a more international/cosmopolitan feel than, say, Barcelona.
    One of the reasons I like Madrid is because it still feels a bit "Spanish" and not nearly as international/cosmopolitan as Barcelona. And I really don't think "sprawl" gives a city any kind of international feel - it just makes portions of the city bland and uninviting for those not from the area or without a car.

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    Quote Originally posted by CJC View post
    Comparing Madrid to Houston is ridiculous. Any city in the world will appear better than Houston in terms of sprawl, with the possible exception of Atlanta.
    If you refer to sprawl in Madrid as 'out of control' I wonder how you would refer to Houston's sprawl..."super-duper-uber-hyper-outtacontrol"?

    Quote Originally posted by CJC View post
    You could show a picture of Phoenix next to Houston and say "See, look! Phoenix isn't nearly as bad as Houston!"
    OR I could look at pic of Phoenix next to Houston and say "(See look!!!!)Phoenix has a smaller metro population than Houston(!!!!)"....Madrid's metro, on the other hand (with a primarily European urban layout), is somewhat larger in population than Houston's.

    While we're on the suject of maps....considering Barcelona's metro population is considerably less than 2/3 of Madrid's, it's "sprawl" seems to correspond pretty accurately to Madrid's.


    Quote Originally posted by CJC View post
    The sprawl on the fringes of Madrid is the worst North American-style sprawl that I have seen in Europe.
    OK, well now you've seen worse in Europe...

    Paris


    Quote Originally posted by CJC View post
    True, and many people may like the climate in Madrid, but I don't. I live in a very mild city here, and Barcelona is probably the closest climate to San Francisco of any major city in the world. Not a knock against Madrid, just personal preference on may part.
    Agreed, some people just aren't interested in ever experiencing a fresh snowfall.

    Quote Originally posted by CJC View post
    One of the reasons I like Madrid is because it still feels a bit "Spanish" and not nearly as international/cosmopolitan as Barcelona.
    Well, Madrid will naturally feel more "Spanish" than Barcelona simply because Spanish isn't the native language of Barcelona.

    I can only conclude that when you say Barcelona is more "international/cosmopolitan" than Madrid, you're refering to international tourists rather than as a global business centre or level of multiculturalism.

    Quote Originally posted by CJC View post
    And I really don't think "sprawl" gives a city any kind of international feel - it just makes portions of the city bland and uninviting for those not from the area or without a car.
    I didn't say sprawl gives a city an international feel, I said having a variety of urban atmospheres does. Namely, a rich combination of classical architecture and a defined modern business district.

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    Don't get me wrong, sprawl-style homes such as this one in northern Madrid do exist.

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    Cyburbian CJC's avatar
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    Quote Originally posted by gonzo View post
    If you refer to sprawl in Madrid as 'out of control' I wonder how you would refer to Houston's sprawl..."super-duper-uber-hyper-outtacontrol"?
    Yes, that description works. Or "worst in the world". Believe me, I wasn't trying to say that Madrid has terrible sprawl, but from my dealings there (I lived in Barcelona for two years and spent a significant amount of time in Madrid), there was nothing being done to limit sprawl in anyway - hence "out of control".

    OR I could look at pic of Phoenix next to Houston and say "(See look!!!!)Phoenix has a smaller metro population than Houston(!!!!)"....Madrid's metro, on the other hand (with a primarily European urban layout), is somewhat larger in population than Houston's.
    Again, certainly Madrid is better than well, any US city. My concern was the rate at which sprawl seems to be increasing, and the ease at which it is happening. It's not Houston, it's not Atlanta, it's not even as bad as Portland (certainly one of the best, if not the best US city at limiting sprawl), but it is worse than any European city that I have seen or had experience with.

    While we're on the suject of maps....considering Barcelona's metro population is considerably less than 2/3 of Madrid's, it's "sprawl" seems to correspond pretty accurately to Madrid's.
    C'mon, I can show you maps of the SF Bay Area here that don't look that bad, but if you actually go to some of the non-yellow sections, guess what? There are sprawling developments there!

    OK, well now you've seen worse in Europe...

    Paris
    Paris does have increasing problems with sprawl. I agree completely, but the barriers in place in Paris are higher than those in Madrid (in my experience).

    Agreed, some people just aren't interested in ever experiencing a fresh snowfall.
    Grew up in Montana, shoveling snow six to seven months of the year. I burned out on snow except for skiing trips Just personal preference.

    Well, Madrid will naturally feel more "Spanish" than Barcelona simply because Spanish isn't the native language of Barcelona.
    Not what I meant. When I said Spanish, I wasn't speaking of the language, just that more of the "native culture" seemed to still be present in Madrid. That's a plus for Madrid in my opinion.

    I can only conclude that when you say Barcelona is more "international/cosmopolitan" than Madrid, you're refering to international tourists rather than as a global business centre or level of multiculturalism.
    I was speaking of everything, not just tourists, though that is a large part. Food is where I notice it most. It's much easier to find food from random regions of the globe in Barcelona than Madrid. And I don't know for sure (can't find any reliable links), but it certainly seems like there are more immigrants in Bacelona than Madrid. Madrid has a lot of immigrants from Latin America and northern Africa, but seems to be lacking in Asian and Eastern European immigrants. But again, I could be wrong.

    I didn't say sprawl gives a city an international feel, I said having a variety of urban atmospheres does. Namely, a rich combination of classical architecture and a defined modern business district.
    I will definitely agree with you that Madrid has better classical architecture and a better defined modern business district.

    Which city do you feel has a better metro? I've got likes and dislikes for both.

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    Quote Originally posted by CJC View post
    Which city do you feel has a better metro? I've got likes and dislikes for both.
    My experiences in the Barcelona metro were quite limited. Generally in the region within Espanya, Arc de Triomf, and Barceloneta stations. I had good experiences though.

    As for Madrid, some of their older stations seemed rather inadequate but I know there have since been some construction projects in the central district to improve conditions.

    The big projects though are the expansion projects which, I understand, are being completed at an unprecedented pace.

    I frequented the recently completed (at the time) MetroSur line in Madrid during my stay. It was modern, spacious, good aesthetic, generally impressive.

    I get the impression that the money that's poured into public transit in Spain (not to mention the 'Cercanias' commuter lines) far exceeds the North American standard.

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    Quote Originally posted by Howard Roark View post
    Central Madrid is great, but the fringes of the city look like a North American sunbelt sprawler, complete w/ giant big boxes, I was shocked, Barca (the city not the footbal club) is much more compact.
    Well, Madrid sits on flat terrain, so it has no obstacles for sprawl. Barcelona, on the other hand, is constricted by hills.

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