They are these creature that come and inhabit your house.Originally posted by Chet
They eat your food. Make messes that they say they never made. They ask for money. They feel like they have a god given right to gripe and complain.
Some days we don't know why we allow them to stay.
But somehow we are responsible for them and we have to cope, thus the reason for this thread!
It is all a matter of perspective!!!
When the soon to be Mrs. Skis and I were in marriage prep classes, the question about teaching kids about money came up... as with most things relating to money, I we agreed that we like the Dave Ramsey Plan. Starting from an early age we will give our kids a salary for doing little tasks around the house. While many of them will be a ‘helping us’ task such as helping give the dog a bath, helping clear the table, or helping clean up their room, each task will have a set value. When they complete that task, it will be marked on a task board. At the end of the week, we (the entire family) will look at the task board and pay the kids.
From that point, they will put it in three clear jars. One will be spending (2/5 of income) one will be saving (2/5 of income), and one will be giving (1/5 of income). As they get older, the tasks will get more complex... (such as mowing the lawn)... and the values will increase.
When they want to spend money on something such as a toy or a trip, we will go to the spending jar... if it is empty, then the task list will grow.
Me: "I am sorry, but the Ordinance and the Master Plan does not permit that at this time. But if you would like to request amendments, this 355 page document outlines the procedure. You will need…. (CLIPPED TO ACCOMMODATE LIMIT) …. It will likely take 36 to 48 months to get final approvals. Then you can submit for a building permit and break ground Would you like to get started with the process?
Applicant: "Geeze, a simple No you can't do that would have worked"
Luckily, I don't have to worry about the logistics of returning my son. We're pretty happy with him and have decided to keep him.
Plus, I think I lost the receipt, anyways.
I'm sorry. Is my bias showing?
You are going to pay your kid to do everything around the house? Aren't some things considered to be "household citizen" chores like keeping your room clean and picking up after yourself? Do you get paid for each and every little thing you do? Just curious. Paying for doing chores over and above what you should be doing seems to go a little further in equating work with earnings. The savings-charity-spending jar thing works pretty well from experience though.
"He defended the cause of the poor and needy, and so all went well. Is that not what it means to know me?" Jeremiah 22:16
**Dealing with terrible 2's**
This forum has been great for planning questions, but now is time to divulge into my personal life. Mrs. CPSU and I are just having a whale of a time dealing with our daughter who just turned 2. I know she is going through the terrible 2s because whenever she doesn't get what she wants, she goes all dramatic on us, with a flop to the ground, hit her head and start balling, or flop in our arms and feel like a little fish our of water. Worse yet is the throwing, and the occasional hitting. Yes, we do punish her through time-outs, and the occasional pat on the tush when she really knows she is not suppose to be doing something as a last resort. My wife has begin raising the issue that i am not using a "firm" voice with her, but yelling at her, which i don't think i am, but could be because i am just frustrated and at witts end. Any advice? Did i mention my daughter is like the energizer bunny who keeps going and going and going with a whole heck of a lot of energy?
Last edited by Raf; 28 Aug 2007 at 10:26 AM. Reason: spelling/title
When someone yells "stop", I ask myself if I should collaborate and listen...
If only we could figure out how to harness the energy of toddlers! As far as the tantrums were concerned I only had to deal with a few and each time I just ignored her. Once she figured out she would get no attention whatsoever with that behavior it ended rather quickly. Saying no and then redirecting her from something she wasn't supposed to be doing/touching worked in our case but you have to be 100% consistent.
"He defended the cause of the poor and needy, and so all went well. Is that not what it means to know me?" Jeremiah 22:16
My daughter just turned 3 and I don't think she really gets time outs yet although she does understand that sometimes she (we) needs to have a little quiet time reading a book or doing a puzzle just to bring the energy down a level.
Our biggest success - CHOICES. We rarely ask/tell her to do something directly it is usually formed as a choice. For example, do you want to go to the toilet with mummy or papa? Do you want a fork or a spoon? Do you want to get out of the carseat by yourself or should mummy do it? Even "If you want a cookie, you have to eat your vegetables first." is a choice.
She feels like she is in control but the choices are limited to safe things and geared to what needs to be done. It is pretty easy to create choices.
I also limit taking her to stores where she may demand everything in sight and when we do go I rarely buy her anything. Before we go out, I tell her what errands we are doing and what exactly we are buying then I try to turn it into an adventure - who can find item X first? Then if she has behaved well I reward her with a trip to the library, playground or another favorite stop (currently a local farm that has minature horses).
As for the drama queen - don't react to her act although sometimes giggling and saying how silly she looks can work - but not always... Just make sure she is safe.
There will be some things that will be “typical household good citizen” things such as putting Landry away or putting dirty clothing in the hamper, making your bed, clearing your plate when you leave the table and typical day to day things. It would be more of the 1 or 2 times a week to a few times a month type of things that they would get paid for.
When I mention ‘Cleaning bedroom’ it is changing sheets, washing windows, dusting and that type of thing.
I think of it like this, (not sure if Dave would agree but here we go), every moment can be a teachable moment, and every task could be used as such. There are particular tasks that I agree should be done just as a good household citizen, but so many other tasks can be used to equate work and earnings. As an example, there are some tasks that I need to do every day as part of my job. If I go a long time without doing them, I run the risk of loosing my job.
For more information available in a kit form (includes Jars, stickers, and a task board) you can go to www.daveramsey.com
*I am no way affiliated nor paid by Dave Ramsey, his corporation, or anyone that he is affiliated. I just like his products and his message.
Me: "I am sorry, but the Ordinance and the Master Plan does not permit that at this time. But if you would like to request amendments, this 355 page document outlines the procedure. You will need…. (CLIPPED TO ACCOMMODATE LIMIT) …. It will likely take 36 to 48 months to get final approvals. Then you can submit for a building permit and break ground Would you like to get started with the process?
Applicant: "Geeze, a simple No you can't do that would have worked"
I agree with you kjelsadek. However, I never got an allowance as a kid, and I am terrible with money. I'm getting better in my old age. I wanted to spend every red dime I had. I'm not as bad as my siblings, but I can do better. On the flipside, the Mrs. always got an allowance, and she is very good with being cheap. Oops I meant, frugal. She does have her moments though. My point is that you have to be exposed to and work for money so that you can appreciate its value and power.
I am recognizing that the voice inside my head
is urging me to be myself but never follow someone else
Because opinions are like voices we all have a different kind". --Q-Tip
I didn't get an allowance either. We were lucky we had enough to have a roof, utilities, food, and basic clothing. I was always doing odd job work from the time I was 11 through babysitting, doing work for the super, picking berries, helping the old people where my grandma lived run errands, etc. until I was old enough to work at an hourly job. Then I contributed $150 to the rent and bought most of my own clothes, bought a bus pass rather than even think about a car, etc. My daughter doesn't have the opportunity to really do those things but she's pretty resourceful in offering to do extra things around the house for an asking price of a buck or two. This summer she's come to work with me every Friday and earned $20 for doing so. She ends up saving about 1/2 of it and for things like school clothes she has a fixed amount to spend, gets it in cash, but has to make a list of what she needs at a minimum and figure out how to buy it all. Same with school supplies....the kid knows how to coupon shop very well. As an incentive she gets to keep the difference she doesn't spend from the allocated budget.
"He defended the cause of the poor and needy, and so all went well. Is that not what it means to know me?" Jeremiah 22:16
As posted by btrage in a different thread...
Growing up, my mother never asked us kids to do the laundry and rarely asked us to the dishes and clean around the house. Us boys did help Dad with yardwork and projects around the house.
Now, as an adult, I tend to be a very clean and organized person and I am usually the one cleaning the kitchen, etc.
When my wife and her siblings were growing up they were asked to do everything around the house. As adults (with the exception of my wife...not sure how that happened) they are all very messy, disorganized people.
Although these are just two families, I've always found this comparison very interesting. I've come to the conclusion (at least in this case) that my siblings and I learned through the example of our parents, while my wife and her siblings grew to resent the chores that they were forced to do.
This leads me to wonder if children learn more by what they see us do, than by what we tell them to do.
You should print this out and keep it for the day when you are trying to implement something like this, just so you can remind yourself of all the good ideas you might be able to pull off if you actually had any time to do them. I am amazed by all the things I said I would or wouldn't do with kids. But in reality, I threw it all out the window and started again from ground zero.
Lately, I have identified the parental rhetorical question phenomenon whereby children are asked questions that you either don't expect them to answer.
Like "What did I just say?" or "Where are you going with that fork?"
Its rather like the cop question. You know, "Can't you read, boy?" Is there really any answer that won't get you in more trouble.
I'm as guilty as the next person. I used to joke about the "what did I just say?" thing, and now its a regular part of my vocabulary.
The purpose of life is a life of purpose
I think this is a more valuable lesson for would-be parents to learn, rather than for them to "plan" how they are going to raise their children.
Not that rules and overall guidelines shouldn't be established, but it's ludicrous to think that there is a "one-size-fits-all" approach to parenting. Children are individual people just like their parents and each of them respond to different approaches and techniques.
The other night we were in the car and my son was having a meltdown because he wasn't going to get his way. He screamed "You are making me so angry." Then pow the little b*****d sucker-punched me in the jaw while I was driving!
I am thinking the karate classes probably weren't a good idea. He has a good punch for a six-year-old, though.
We were only a few blocks from home at the time. Needless to say, the rest of his evening was pretty bad. He got the mother of all lectures (at an elevated decibel level), his allowance and all of his weekend priveleges taken away, no dinner and had to go straight to bed. The coming weekend is going to suck for him.
The next morning he was very sorry for his actions.
He really is a great kid 90 percent of the time. He needs to work on his impulse control, obviously.
Funny thing and it is fortunate is that having his priveleges taken away and losing his allowance wasn't what bothered him the most. It was having Papa mad at him. Not playing with him and not speaking to him made him very sad indeed. I must admit I worked that. Showed him my mad facefor longer than I was really angry.
He was very happy when Papa had his happy faceonce again.
"I am very good at reading women, but I get into trouble for using the Braille method."
~ Otterpop ~
I also have a "pleaser" who really doesn't respond to privileges being taken away, but it is sheer torture for her when I upset with her or refuse to allow her to do anything with me. I think you handled it well though. Perhaps a calm discussion after the storm has passed of why it's not ok to hit people even if you are angry would be in order. My SIL had this problem with her son who also studies karate, it reached it's pinnacle on Christmas Eve when he karate kicked his cousin twice after being warned to stop. We found him hiding under a bed upstairs and then he was removed to be chastised by his embarrassed father in the bathroom. He was pretty meek for the rest of the evening at the party.The other night we were in the car and my son was having a meltdown because he wasn't going to get his way. He screamed "You are making me so angry." Then pow the little b*****d sucker-punched me in the jaw while I was driving!
I am thinking the karate classes probably weren't a good idea. He has a good punch for a six-year-old, though.
We were only a few blocks from home at the time. Needless to say, the rest of his evening was pretty bad. He got the mother of all lectures (at an elevated decibel level), his allowance and all of his weekend priveleges taken away, no dinner and had to go straight to bed. The coming weekend is going to suck for him.
The next morning he was very sorry for his actions.
He really is a great kid 90 percent of the time. He needs to work on his impulse control, obviously.
Funny thing and it is fortunate is that having his priveleges taken away and losing his allowance wasn't what bothered him the most. It was having Papa mad at him. Not playing with him and not speaking to him made him very sad indeed. I must admit I worked that. Showed him my mad face
He was very happy when Papa had his happy face
"He defended the cause of the poor and needy, and so all went well. Is that not what it means to know me?" Jeremiah 22:16
I didn't know if this should be in the joke thread or the You Tube thread, but parents will certainly laugh at this - I had to watch it 3 times because I kept laughing and missing some of the lines!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RxT5NwQUtVM
that is funny!
I know it's a belated reply but the odds are good that you are still coping with this. Proviso: This isn't criticism of you. I am only sharing what worked for me in hopes that it is helpful to you.
I am not big on punishing kids. That's not to say there are never any "sticks" and all carrots around here, but I think the goal should be disciplining the children, not punishment. To me, discipline means giving them the opportunity to learn self-discipline with an eye on the long-term goal that raising kids is about preparing them to be effective adults who know how to handle themselves in this world. It's all too easy to forget that long term goal and just try to force the kid to "behave" in the here and now because their current behavior is inconvenient.
An example of the difference between punishment and discipline:
When my kids would fight about some video game they were playing, I took the game away and told them that games were supposed to be fun and if they were fighting over it, they weren't using it properly. I told them no game was worth harming their relationship with their brother or a friend who was visiting. So please play something else. They weren't being punished for fighting. Taking the game away was not intended to hurt their feelings, deprive them, or otherwise "punish". The game itself was the problem and it was being temporarily removed so the problem would end. They eventually learned to not get all wrapped around the axle about winning or losing a videogame.
In contrast, their father would take vidoegames away from them as punishment for other things they had done, completely unrelated to the games themselves. My kids never resented the things I did to intercede and stop problem behaviors. They did resent what their father did because it was clearly intended to simply cause them pain as a means to discourage things he didn't approve of.
As for tantrums per se, kids have all these big feelings and don't know how to cope with them or they blow a gasket over some other problem they cannot verbalize. Making a big deal of it tends to create problems. My youngest used to have tantrums. At some point, I realized it was because he is flat-footed and his feet would begin hurting if we did a lot of walking (like at the mall). When I realized what was causing the problems and made accommodations for this issue, the tantrums stopped. He had never been either punished or rewarded for the tantrums. His tantrums were treated like "small kids sometimes blow a gasket -- it's normal and no big deal and it's not like you see 20 year old's laying on the ground kicking and screaming". So when the source of his problem was resolved, the tantrums stopped because they had never been made into an issue. I think it is frightening for kids when parents act like a tantrum is a big deal. For some issues, it helps to make it a "child sized problem" and not signal that this is something the adult can't cope with, if that makes sense.
Or if they have learned they can manipulate the parents, they will certainly do that. If your sense of embarrassment or something is a means to hold you hostage, then you have given the child the power in the relationship. You can choose to take that power back.
I hope that helps. Good luck.
My 9 year old is making me absolutely nuts. The kid loses EVERY friggin thing he touches; EVERYTHING. Then this morning I asked him if he had socks on and he said yes. I went to tie his shoe ( the right way, he had long strings hangin out drivin me crazy) and gee, guess what NO SOCKS....hgughughgu I asked him 2 times and he said yes then I asked if he was lying he said no....the kids is brilliant bookwise but no common sense or drive to do anything at all for himself. I have cleaned out and organized his room (yes with his help, trying to make it as organized as possible for him to keep his things together); I have put things in the hpus in specific places for him..anything I can do, I have done...I am at the end of my rope with him...he walks around in a daze half the time, pays no attention to anything other than the exact task at hand...des perfect in school, teachers love him; grandma sees none of this behaviour, just me....sending me over the edge.....
The youngest...perfect, never looses anything, never forgets anything, keeps all of his things in one spot and defiantely does not lie to mom....
On a positive note...both monsters are leaving to the lake this afternoon with my parents....whle weekend to myself
Easy there Mom. He's not doing it, you're driving yourself nuts. He's just being a 9 year old boy and probably isn't even aware of how frustrated you are. I had one like that but it was my youngest. When I coached soccer and hockey, we had kids just like that too. Usually made them be the goalie so they wouldn't get lost by running around. You just had to try to get them to wake up and focus when the ball/puck was coming their way. I was a single parent then too and know exactly how frustrated you are, how good the weekends without the kiddos are, and how you still miss them when they're not there.
“Death comes when memories of the past exceed the vision for the future.”
wow, this is my 8.5 yo daughter to a tee - my 14 yo was like this too at this age and when she got to about 12, she started figuring it out - now she's a control freak about her stuff!
I don't really like children much from about 6-12. They know and understand some things but you just never know what they are going to grasp.
It is all a matter of perspective!!!
Thanks for the responses, you are all correct, it is me that making myself nuts. I need to let him be a kid...thats really all there is to it. Sometimes (often) I probably expect too much out of him...I am excited about the weekend to myself (it truly is a weekend to myself because they are going to the lake with my parents. I know they are in THE best possible hands and I get to sleep in if I want to!!) but I will miss them terribly tommorrow morning, I alreayd know it...
Jacob and I just keep trying to refocus and organize...let me say he has been getting a BIT better, I think we just had a bad morning this morning and I vented a little too early...he is a good, GOOD boy 95% of the time.
As for the terrible twos (I don't think my daughter has totally left them yet), the SuperNanny "naughty stool" technique really does work well for us.
But lately it has become appearant that she likes to frustrate me and get me upset with her, just so that then she can start behaving, and make me happy. She'll ask "mommy, are you happy now." And when I say yes she just beams. Maybe it is my fault for not being happy all of the time.
Now for my latest child-rearing issue... our little girl (just over 3 years old) has started telling my husband that she doesn't like him. He'll lean down to kiss her goodbye and she'll push him away and say "No. Don't kiss me. I don't like you!" When we tuck her in at night she says "No, mommy will stay and give hugs and kisses, but I want you to leave daddy!" He disciplines her the same I do, only his voice is probably a little scarier. He is always playful and sweet to her. He's really torn up about this, and as gone so far as to accuse me of turning her against him. He's desperate to figure out why she acts like this.
What say the throbbing brain? Any insight?
Wee P did the same with me for a little while, my response was always "I'll always love you" - it will go away soon, tell him not to sweat it...
"Whatever beer I'm drinking, is better than the one I'm not." DMLW
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