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Thread: The NEVERENDING Raising Children Thread

  1. #976
    Cyburbian Plus Whose Yur Planner's avatar
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    Quote Originally posted by dandy_warhol View post
    ..but it is about our attempt to raise a child. On Sunday, July 8th I found out that I had lost another pregnancy, this time at 16wks. Apparently the baby had died on July 4th but we didn't find out until a trip to the ER on Sunday. We are heartbroken. This is our 3rd loss in 1 1/2 years. There was no obvious cause of the fetal demise (such a cold, medical term) but it was different from the first 2 losses. Which means that either I have horrible luck or something more complex is going on.

    No amount of bunnies will fix the sadness and heartbreak that I feel. Today is my first day back in the office and I just want to go home. Fighting with HUD over a 30-yr old loan and getting yelled at by City Council members just seem so pointless.



    Sorry for being so heavy but wanted to share with my "friends".
    I am so sorry Dandy
    When did I go from Luke Skywalker to Obi-Wan Kenobi?

  2. #977
    NIMBY asshatterer Plus Richmond Jake's avatar
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    You are in my thoughts, d_w.

  3. #978
    Cyburbian Veloise's avatar
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    (((((Dandy)))))

    (((((Mr Dandy))))))

  4. #979
    Cyburbian terraplnr's avatar
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    My heart goes out to you Dandy, I am so, so sorry. This won’t help at all anytime soon, but some day this live bunny cam might help a teeny bit… at least take the edge off at work…

    http://hellogiggles.com/hellogiggles...-all-day-today

  5. #980
    Cyburbian SW MI Planner's avatar
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    I am so sorry Dandy...

  6. #981
    Cyburbia Administrator Dan's avatar
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    Quote Originally posted by dandy_warhol View post
    ..but it is about our attempt to raise a child. On Sunday, July 8th I found out that I had lost another pregnancy, this time at 16wks.
    I'm sorry.
    Growth for growth's sake is the ideology of the cancer cell. -- Edward Abbey

  7. #982
    Cyburbian wahday's avatar
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    Well, hard to jumpstart this thread after Dandy's sad news. I'm still feeling that sadness and hope the Mr. And Mrs are doing ok.

    But I am also wrestling with some other kid-related issues and thought I would throw it out there:

    My daughter started first grade this week and it has come to everyone’s attention that she is a good deal behind in her reading. She had been struggling a bit at the end of last year, but developmentally that seemed within the range of normal and we were not concerned. Over the summer we tried to work on it some more but she also put up some walls and started to get a little uptight about it all so we backed off. Now that she is in school with peers she has realized herself that she is behind.

    Yesterday she came home and said “I don’t want to be the only first grader who can’t read!”

    Break my heart in a million pieces why don’t you?

    So, we’re trying to work with the school and also at home on building up her skills. In reading through some literature on this, I see that she indeed has many characteristics common to people who have “reading difficulties” but am not sure what to do beyond what we already are. In addition to wanting to bring her up to speed, I also worry about the implications of this later. Girls with reading difficulties are more prone to depression later and tend to begin withdrawing toward late elementary school as the loss of self-esteem sets in.

    From my lay-person’s assessment, I don’t think we are dealing with dyslexia or ADD as she does not exhibit many of the other symptoms. Anyone else wrestled or is wrestling with reading or learning challenges? What has been your experience?

    Her brother, who is almost 12, is a voracious reader and a bit of a brainiac, so I don’t think that helps matters either (though she is WAY more coordinated than him, even at their 5 year difference…). She’s actually way ahead of her peers in math (and ahead of her brother at this age) but the words are really giving her a lot of trouble. And that’s troubling me.
    The purpose of life is a life of purpose

  8. #983
    Cyburbian ursus's avatar
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    My youngest girl Addie just finished first grade and was behind at the start of the year. She was bothered by it as well. I feel for you, it does break your heart. Their stories could be identical - good in math, she's physically well coordinated, bright, creative. She just struggled reading. I noticed that she had a hard time moving from the sounds of the letter to reading the whole word - and she struggled and struggled with the "sight words".

    There wasn't a magic bullet, but she is caught up now. Honestly all I did was be willing to let her read some books that she liked the most (really really simple ones, even when she was doing better) to help it become more "automatic", you know? Also, flash cards of the sight words and I tried not to push her too hard when she was done for a night.

    I'm sure your daughter will pick it up just fine. First grade, the kids are all over the map in reading. It just comes a little slower to some, so stay positive so that she will, too.

    "...I would never try to tick Hink off. He kinda intimidates me. He's quite butch, you know." - Maister

  9. #984
    Cyburbian otterpop's avatar
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    Quote Originally posted by wahday View post
    My daughter started first grade this week and it has come to everyone’s attention that she is a good deal behind in her reading. . . . Anyone else wrestled or is wrestling with reading or learning challenges? What has been your experience?
    Wahday,

    I know what you are going through. I have the same issue with my son. He is a very bright kid - excels in math and science. A's and B's always, even in reading.

    But he doesn't like to read. It is a battle almost every night. What has worked for us is we have him read 30 minutes a night five nights a week. His teacher also recommended that he read out loud for 15 of those 30 minutes. I must admit I am lax on that one. Having an angry kid read to you is no fun.

    I don't care what it is. Sometimes he reads science. Some nights he reads Mad Magazine or a comic. Once he read the instruction manual of a computer.

    Some kids are late bloomers. Some just never like to read. In the case of my son I think his problem is reading is hard for him (he has been tested and has no reading disabilty), so he doesn't want to do it.

    I try to lead my example - being a voracious reader, but he is unimpressed.

    Keep at it. Read to her. Make her read to you. I wish I could say it is going to get easier. I've been working on this isuse since he was in 4th grade and he is heading to middle school.
    "I am very good at reading women, but I get into trouble for using the Braille method."

    ~ Otterpop ~

  10. #985
    Cyburbian Veloise's avatar
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    L-i-b-r-a-r-y

    What springs to mind is taking Wee Wahday to the local library, and making friends with the children's librarian. When I was a kid, I was fond of the Marguerite Henry series, Nancy Drews, Lois Lenski, and other prolific authors who'd churn out "next installment" reads.

    Googling "books for six year olds," in an attempt to contemporize this, brings up a cool list. Pippi Longstocking, Ramona Quimby, Stuart Little, Amelia Bedelia...the idea is to get her engaged in a series in which she'll want to turn the page.

    Laura Ingalls is 6 in her first Little House book, and they have enough illustrations to be interesting, along with the descriptive text. (Making bullets, making soap, a latchstring entry handle...) Charlotte's Web (same illustrator as Little House books). Maybe American Girl books, although the protagonists are all 9yos.

    The children's librarian can offer her suggestions on what would be interesting and fun to read, along with a second opinion about the craft of literacy. Get her a library card, too.

    HTH

  11. #986
    Cyburbian WSU MUP Student's avatar
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    While my daughter is way to young for me to worry about this yet, I like Veloise's suggestion of the Laura Ingall's books. Maybe if she can get going on something like that, that is serial in nature, it will help her to want to read more.

    Beyond that, two of my nephews had very slight speech impediments when they were about that age, as did I, and they (and I), all spent some time with speech therapists in school. I don't really remember it (except practicing saying certain sounds over and over and over again) but my brother and sister both claim that their sons' reading ability caught up pretty quickly after that. I am no speech therapist, but I would think that hearing the word one way in your mind and come out a different way from your mouth might delay your reading ability.
    "Where free unions and collective bargaining are forbidden, freedom is lost." - 1980 Republican presidential candidate Ronald Reagan

  12. #987
    I agree with WSU MUP Student that a slight speech impediment could be part of the problem, as both my kids had them, worked with therapists at school, and mom and dad at home, and overcame late reading issues to become voracious readers. I would also check to make sure her vision is okay, as my daughter needed glasses. While Elena's on the cusp of 13 now, she has found a number of serials she enjoys and loads her Kindle the minute they are available and simply devours them.

    Last, don't despair of the bad things that might happen later and focus on the superior math ability to keep her esteem high. Be engaged with her teachers as much as you think is necessary (daily if needs be). She'll get it soon enough.
    On pitching to Stan Musial:
    "Once he timed your fastball, your infielders were in jeopardy."
    Warren Spahn

  13. #988
    Cyburbian otterpop's avatar
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    We got the letter from my son's middle school, which gave us his class schedule, forms to sign, a map of the school and the list of things he will need.

    Jeezus. gone are the days a parent bought a couple notebooks, looseleaf paper, a couple pens and a couple pencils to send a kid to school. The list included markers, colored pencils, Sharpies, a trapper keeper, pens, pencils, five notebooks, folders, dividers, and on and on. And of course he needed a new backpack to haul all this swag around. I got out of Walmart after spending what amounted to what we pay for a week's worth of groceries. JEEZUS.

    I told my son I expected to see more A's than B's this year, for all the money I was shelling out. Or else I would bill him $40 a quarter.

    My parents were comfortably upper middle class. But I had a bookbag that lasted me from middle school to high school. And my supplies of pens, pencils, and paper was carefully guarded from the pilfering of brothers and a sister.

    I vividly recall getting yelled at by my 7th grade math teacher, in front of the whole class, for doing my school work with a No. 3 pencil, because I didn't have a No. 2. She said No. 3 pencils were too light for school work and were meant for artists. And I was never going to be an artist! Thanks for that ego boost, Mrs. Ferrer. Your love of teaching and guiding students will always be an inspiration to me
    "I am very good at reading women, but I get into trouble for using the Braille method."

    ~ Otterpop ~

  14. #989
    Cyburbian ursus's avatar
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    Quote Originally posted by otterpop View post
    Jeezus. gone are the days a parent bought a couple notebooks, looseleaf paper, a couple pens and a couple pencils to send a kid to school. The list included markers, colored pencils, Sharpies, a trapper keeper, pens, pencils, five notebooks, folders, dividers, and on and on. And of course he needed a new backpack to haul all this swag around. I got out of Walmart after spending what amounted to what we pay for a week's worth of groceries. JEEZUS.
    Hey otterpop, all of this - Word. Except I gotta do it for 5 kids in school. Yikes. I'm not complaining though. I love school supplies. Fall makes me horny for school supplies.
    "...I would never try to tick Hink off. He kinda intimidates me. He's quite butch, you know." - Maister

  15. #990
    Cyburbian Veloise's avatar
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    Why do kids need Sharpies?

    Quote Originally posted by otterpop View post
    We got the letter from my son's middle school, which gave us his class schedule, forms to sign, a map of the school and the list of things he will need.

    Jeezus. gone are the days a parent bought a couple notebooks, looseleaf paper, a couple pens and a couple pencils to send a kid to school. The list included markers, colored pencils, Sharpies, a trapper keeper, pens, pencils, five notebooks, folders, dividers, and on and on. ....
    Permanent markers? Huh?

  16. #991
    Cyburbian WSU MUP Student's avatar
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    Quote Originally posted by otterpop View post
    I vividly recall getting yelled at by my 7th grade math teacher, in front of the whole class, for doing my school work with a No. 3 pencil, because I didn't have a No. 2. She said No. 3 pencils were too light for school work and were meant for artists...
    I never even knew that anything other than #2 pencils actually existed!
    "Where free unions and collective bargaining are forbidden, freedom is lost." - 1980 Republican presidential candidate Ronald Reagan

  17. #992
    Cyburbian stroskey's avatar
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    Holy buckets kids seem expensive. Why in the world would you willingly create a black-hole for money? We make more than the US average but I can not imagine how we would afford kids and continue to save for the future.
    I burned down the church to atone for my transgressions.

  18. #993
    Cyburbian ursus's avatar
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    Quote Originally posted by stroskey View post
    Holy buckets kids seem expensive. Why in the world would you willingly create a black-hole for money? We make more than the US average but I can not imagine how we would afford kids and continue to save for the future.
    You can't really save for the future much with kids that's true. However, I do plan - in the future however broke I may be - to never ever be alone or bored.
    "...I would never try to tick Hink off. He kinda intimidates me. He's quite butch, you know." - Maister

  19. #994
    Chairman of the bored Maister's avatar
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    Quote Originally posted by stroskey View post
    Holy buckets kids seem expensive. Why in the world would you willingly create a black-hole for money? We make more than the US average but I can not imagine how we would afford kids and continue to save for the future.
    The little tax deductions hardly seem worth it when you consider all the collateral expenses they incur.
    People will miss that it once meant something to be Southern or Midwestern. It doesn't mean much now, except for the climate. The question, “Where are you from?” doesn't lead to anything odd or interesting. They live somewhere near a Gap store, and what else do you need to know? - Garrison Keillor

  20. #995
    Cyburbian btrage's avatar
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    Quote Originally posted by stroskey View post
    Holy buckets kids seem expensive. Why in the world would you willingly create a black-hole for money? We make more than the US average but I can not imagine how we would afford kids and continue to save for the future.
    I feel the same way about people who spend shitloads of money on personal entertainment, extensive travel, and fancy toys.

    It really comes down to what you want out of life. For some, to be surrounded by a loving family as you move forward through life, takes precedence.

    We just went school suppply shopping last night for our two daughers, and got out of there spending about $50. Now, a childless couple will go spend $50 for a night out at the bar without thinking about it. It really just comes down to how you choose to spend your money.

    That being said, two kids for us is plenty.
    "I'm very important. I have many leather-bound books and my apartment smells of rich mahogany"

  21. #996
    Cyburbian Veloise's avatar
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    Quote Originally posted by Veloise View post
    What springs to mind is taking Wee Wahday to the local library, and making friends with the children's librarian....can offer her suggestions on what would be interesting and fun to read, along with a second opinion about the craft of literacy. Get her a library card, too.
    Annnnddd here's an example of a library reading program that seems like it would be lots of fun to attend.

  22. #997
    Do y'all have to pay to rent your textbooks? We do here in the Hoosier state. But, yeah, tell me about it: besides paying property taxes, we foot the bill for a Catholic elementary and high school education, plus an iPad for the hs kid, calculators, supplies, text rental (for the elementarian), and the bill falls just under $18,000. OOOOOUUUUUUCCCCCCCHHHHHHHHH!
    On pitching to Stan Musial:
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  23. #998
    Cyburbian wahday's avatar
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    Thanks for all the positive feedback. For the record, we read aloud as a family almost every night and my wife takes the kids to the library about once a week. They love it. Over the past year and a half, we have read ALL the Laura Ingalls Wilder books, a bunch of the Judy Blumes (those featuring Fudge along with some others), a few Beverly Cleary books and 4 of the Harry Potters. She loves big narrative books. What we realized just recently, though, is that this summer she was deferring to us reading these chapter books as a way to not have to wrestle with reading on her own. So, we are now trying to refocus on much shorter, simpler books and having her read to us. Its still very challenging for her and as I did a little more research about different reading issues, I see a lot of the common challenges present in her.
    • Pronouncing new words and remembering them
    • Breaking words apart into sounds
    • Blending sounds together to make words (this and the above are getting easier of late)
    • Can't remember words; sounds out the same word every time it occurs on the page (this is so distinct with her. Even if it was one or two words earlier, she just can’t make that connection that it’s the same word with the same pronunciation)
    • Frequently guesses at unknown words rather than sounding them out (when she reads to us, she often says every word as a question, looking to us for approval. I have been encouraging her to just read and jump in and don’t worry if its wrong or right - just take a stab at it)

    I think it will ultimately be fine. I was one of those kids who had a love/hate relationship with reading. I had very high comprehension, but reading was (and to a certain extent still is) an exhausting enterprise. Recently my brother was describing some dynamic my nephew has where it is hard to focus on the line of text because your eyes are darting all over the page, being attracted to other words and mixing up the order of things. The field of words on a page is just too stimulating for some, making it hard to filter out in order to read. Once he described this, I realized “oh my gosh! That’s exactly what I feel like!” So, I probably have been wrestling with a similar challenge myself.

    Anyway, we have engaged the school and are doing more reading at home and really trying to prop up her self-esteem which I think is critical to having the drive to continue working on the reading and not be discouraged. I’m just becoming aware of the possibility that we may need to seek some additional assistance or develop an alternative plan to get her up to speed.

    I appreciate everyone’s input!

    Quote Originally posted by stroskey View post
    Holy buckets kids seem expensive. Why in the world would you willingly create a black-hole for money? We make more than the US average but I can not imagine how we would afford kids and continue to save for the future.
    This made me laugh. Children are often not a “logical” decision so that’s part of it. A lot of emotion and "unexpected developments" are tied up with reproduction. Also, having kids IS a type of investment in the future – a future beyond your lifetime as they carry forth the values and experiences you provided. Its not monetary in nature, but still an investment of time, energy, values, etc. and I think a little of what Ursus was getting at in not being bored or alone (having cared for three dead and one dying parent, I see the value of having someone to deal with your crap). For me, I don’t have a lot of other plans for my money, so I figure the kids are the best investment anyway. But its not for everyone. I forgo a lot of things I might otherwise indulge. But then I get more out of kids than any device or experience or “thing” I can imagine. Plus the cost of children gets spread out over quite a long time.

    But again, I think very few people do a cost-benefit analysis on children. If we all lived on farms, the payoff would be simpler to conceptualize - free labor!
    The purpose of life is a life of purpose

  24. #999
    Cyburbian otterpop's avatar
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    Quote Originally posted by Veloise View post
    Permanent markers? Huh?
    Not exactly sure either. I am thinking that maybe with the new generation of cleaning supplies, you need permanent markers so your graffiti has some staying power.

    Not only that, but they specified that the Sharpies had to be fine and ultra fine tipped.
    "I am very good at reading women, but I get into trouble for using the Braille method."

    ~ Otterpop ~

  25. #1000
    Super Moderator kjel's avatar
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    Elementary school supply shopping sucked because every school RT attended all those supplies were collected and pooled together for the entire class. Middle and high school wasn't as bad. since she maintained her own pool of supplies and didn't have to share. I never bought the whole list, only the items that a specific teacher required (some get really anal about a specific 3 ring binder and dividers lol). The things that always made me mad was the end of the year when teachers were soliciting copy paper because the school was out....maybe if you didn't send 10K useless notices home?

    RT had some significant reading issues that became readily apparent towards the end of 1st grade. We thought it might have to do with the class she was in with a young teacher and a lot of challenging kids making for a disruptive environment. We transferred schools after 1st grade and met with the principal of the new school to discuss our concerns. He was awesome and placed her with a veteran teacher and early intervention in the form of a special teacher that worked with her one on one twice a week. The special teacher was instrumental in unlocking the way that she learned and how she processed things. She's very much how you describe your daughter, wahday. Organization, notetaking, and practice, practice, practice were the things that helped her most. Her 2nd grade teacher taught a Grade 2/3 mixed class the following year and RT stayed with her. She did catch up with no lingering issues.
    "He defended the cause of the poor and needy, and so all went well. Is that not what it means to know me?" Jeremiah 22:16

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