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Thread: The NEVERENDING Raising Children Thread

  1. #151
    Cyburbian zman's avatar
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    RE: Patience.

    Sometime I wonder if I will have patience for children. Using my "current children" as an example I sometimes get mighty frustrated with my dogs at times. I never express this physically... ever... but I sometimes lack the patience that is important in dog/human relationships.

    Now, before you fly off the handle in my comparing kids to dogs (I feel that my relationship with my future kids [none planned or expected yet] would be more profound and emotional than with my dogs) I have another example with actual kids:

    My neighbors have a 4 year old and a 1 year old. They are really good kids, but like all kids they act out at times. One time when we were having Sunday dinner with everybody in the other nieghbor's driveway Yes, we do this... The 4 year old was being a picky eater and flat out ignoring her dad while wandering around. I could tell she was ignoring her dad on purpose and this got me really annoyed and frustrated and this wasn't even my kid or my responsibility. I kept thinking that I would not tolerate this at all and would probably get angry with the child for doing this.* Later that night, another kid got hurt and was crying really loudly. Now I know that kids do this when hurt (heck, even I cry sometimes when hurt-I'll admit it) but I was just thinking that "Oh man, this sucks to deal with... I never want to do this..."

    So is pateince learned, earned or instilled with your own children? I still would like kids eventually, but sometimes I wonder what kind of dad I would be.

    *- Maybe I have some issues... who knows?
    You get all squeezed up inside/Like the days were carved in stone/You get all wired up inside/And it's bad to be alone

    You can go out, you can take a ride/And when you get out on your own/You get all smoothed out inside/And it's good to be alone
    -Peart

  2. #152
    Unfrozen Caveman Planner mendelman's avatar
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    zman,

    Having a little 1 yr old of my own and a second in October, I know that I have developed much more patience than I had when I was 20. You have to keep the perspective that they are new people with little experience and don't necessarily know how to express themselves sufficiently or in the correct manner - that's why they need patient parents/guardians. But any individual adult really needs to know whether they can handle the requirements of raising children. I think you have the right introspective nature to come the right conclusion for yourself. And having large breed dogs is definitely a good test.

    I actually think raising children will be "easier" than dogs. At least children grow and mature and by 12-13 they have the ability (but maybe not willingness ) to reason and learn and become more self-sufficient. Whereas, a pet dog is essentially at the level of a 3 yr old human for it's entire life - need, need, need.
    I'm sorry. Is my bias showing?

    The ends can justify the means.

  3. #153
    Cyburbian Raf's avatar
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    Patience is definitely learned. Yesterday we switched day care providers and we got a new one handed to us because we were told our daughter has an "behaviour" issue, and she does. It just took our daycare provider to tell me strait up we need to be better discipline for her. She doesn't look at you when you tell her to do things and pretty much does what she wants. We are on day 2 of tough love with her and already i am seeing improvements (actually sitting down for dinner, bedtime with no playing were one few improvements so far). I am a pretty impatient guy, but my daughter tests my patience day in an day out. I am learning, but it is still tough. I tend to remember this mantra: "Your kids are are a reflection of your parents and how they raised you." Until now i am learning i have some of my father's tendencies such as being controlling and learning to deal with those in order to not have my daughter fall in the same trap. Its tough dude, especially for someone that wasn't ready when it happened, but you know what, i wouldn't trade it for anything, especially after a long day slaving at the office to see your daughter so excited that "Daddy's home" running around in circles and so jubilant just to see your face.
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  4. #154
    Cyburbian boiker's avatar
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    I was a rather patient guy before, now I am even more so. Though after a couple of trying events (bickering, refusal to listen, etc) my patience does wear.

    It's really not as bad as it seams, especially after being immersed in it for 9 years. However when the kids are away, life is strangely quiet and simple.
    Dude, I'm cheesing so hard right now.

  5. #155
    Cyburbian craines's avatar
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    Raising kids is the most difficult yet rewarding task I have ever done. The challenges are constantly shifting and if you have multiple children they vary with child.

    I use to sware that I would never use any of my dads sayings such as 'Just Do it' whenever the why question came up. And for some years I was successful and then we had our second one and at the same time I started my own buisness.........next thing you you know I am my dad..............its wicked!!!

    Though all of the toughness of raising kids evaporates whenever they just for no apparent reason run up to you and give you a big hug and a kiss and say that they love you.............turns me to mush.
    Looking for Sanity
    In this Crazy Land Of Ours

  6. #156
    Cyburbian zman's avatar
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    Yeah, I think I can certainly learn some more patience and see how it goes. I have a couple more years before parenthood (if it goes to plan ) but have already begun relfecting on my life growing up and things I would change/not change with raising of my own children.

    Also having a good friend (a brother to me actually) now being a parent of two boys is a good place to watch. He is great as a dad and handles those two boys (by himself most of the time as his wife works while he goes to school) really well. He and I are due for a talk over a couple beers soon anyways and I may have to pick his brain.
    You get all squeezed up inside/Like the days were carved in stone/You get all wired up inside/And it's bad to be alone

    You can go out, you can take a ride/And when you get out on your own/You get all smoothed out inside/And it's good to be alone
    -Peart

  7. #157
    Cyburbian boiker's avatar
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    Quote Originally posted by zmanPLAN View post
    Yeah, I think I can certainly learn some more patience and see how it goes. I have a couple more years before parenthood (if it goes to plan ) but have already begun relfecting on my life growing up and things I would change/not change with raising of my own children.

    Also having a good friend (a brother to me actually) now being a parent of two boys is a good place to watch. He is great as a dad and handles those two boys (by himself most of the time as his wife works while he goes to school) really well. He and I are due for a talk over a couple beers soon anyways and I may have to pick his brain.
    No matter how much general advice you get, you're still going to raise kids your way. Do what feels right and supportive. Don't react, think first and be prepared to be a goofy kid yourself. I'm really good at telling bad jokes (groaners, not offensive) and the kids love those.. especially puns.

    Quote Originally posted by craines
    Though all of the toughness of raising kids evaporates whenever they just for no apparent reason run up to you and give you a big hug and a kiss and say that they love you.............turns me to mush
    especially when daughters do that.... aww
    Dude, I'm cheesing so hard right now.

  8. #158
    Cyburbian Jen's avatar
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    Sunday Dinner in the Driveway?!

    Sounds like fun and prime time for wandering toddlers, preoccupied preschoollers and distracted parents trying to turn the conversation away from their kids and back to adult topics.

  9. #159
    Cyburbian zman's avatar
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    Quote Originally posted by Jen View post
    Sunday Dinner in the Driveway?!

    Sounds like fun and prime time for wandering toddlers, preoccupied preschoollers and distracted parents trying to turn the conversation away from their kids and back to adult topics.
    Off-topic:
    Yeah, typically this is how it occurs. Mostly the kids are either really young or about to get into high school. Recently, the driveway dinners have been held and then an impromptu softball game has formed in the park afterwards until it gets dark. It is fun. Any Cyburbian driving through is welcome to stop over.

    We have also held movies in the driveway using a laptop and projector. One movie for kids first, and then another less-kid oriented as the second.
    You get all squeezed up inside/Like the days were carved in stone/You get all wired up inside/And it's bad to be alone

    You can go out, you can take a ride/And when you get out on your own/You get all smoothed out inside/And it's good to be alone
    -Peart

  10. #160
    Super Moderator luckless pedestrian's avatar
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    zman - I never thought I could do it until I had kids - and I can't tell you the number of times I have eaten those words: I will never do that with my kids -

    so don't worry about it - when it's your kids, it's different, really it is!

    I am actually more tolerant of other people's kids than my own because I'm not responsible for them

    and 4 year olds? they typically suck - my girls, now 9 and 15 were horrific 4 year olds, just nasty little things but then they turn 5 and it's a sigh of relief, they were angels - my Mom always said that they invented kindergarten so your 4 year old would live to see 5

    my son is about to turn 4 in September and I'm bracing myself already -

  11. #161
    Cyburbian wahday's avatar
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    Quote Originally posted by luckless pedestrian View post
    zman - I never thought I could do it until I had kids - and I can't tell you the number of times I have eaten those words: I will never do that with my kids -
    Ditto that. Its perfectly natural to trying and plot out the way you want things to go, the mistakes you want to avoid, etc. but once they arrive, there is no time for that! You just have to do. Its a very Zen experience, actually - constantly existing in the moment.

    And yes, nothing presses my buttons quite like my children can. But these are also moments for personal growth - a chance to say - whoa! I don't think I want to be THAT person again. Scary...

    For all the frustration and difficult periods, they are far outweighed by the good.
    The purpose of life is a life of purpose

  12. #162
    Super Moderator kjel's avatar
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    I am my mother in many ways at least when it comes to being a mom. I don't mind though because I think she was a great mom. I think I am a little more culturally aware and certainly travel more than she did and involve my daughter in these activities more than I ever was as a kid. I guess I fall into the non-nonsense category of parent and really don't put up with any kind of poor behavior. She was easy when she's small and we are surviving the teen years without too many issues so far. I know I am not always the most patient person on the planet due to all the demands on my schedule, but we've figure out how to make it work.

    Being a parent is the greatest and toughest job I will ever have.
    "He defended the cause of the poor and needy, and so all went well. Is that not what it means to know me?" Jeremiah 22:16

  13. #163
    Cyburbian otterpop's avatar
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    Z-Man, patience

    I am in year seven on being a parent. Before I became a parent, I did not much care for kids. I wanted to be a parent since I became an adult, but I did not have much interest or patience with kids. Until I became a parent.

    The Grand Design works out. When your child is a tiny baby, the little person is so cute and helpless and needy that you can't help but love him or her. As the child gets older, you have time to learn as you go.

    Patience comes. If you are lucky enough to have a two-parent family, you have a support person handy. The other parent can take over when your patience is running thin. My wife and I do that.

    My son is my shadow. If I am around, he is there with me. This can wear on my patience. But I have developed a deep well of patience. When the well is pumped dry and I am exasperated, my wife usally steps in and takes him for a bit. After a while, my well of patience is plump full and I can go on.

    My wife and son left last week to visit her family in Colombia. I am without my family for another three weeks. I thought it would be great. A time to recharge my batteries and be alone for a while.

    Really I hate it. I miss my son so much. He does at times try my patience, but the sun rises and sets on that boy, as far as I am concerned. I wish he was around to try my patience to the max. When he gets back, I do not think my well of patience will ever run dry again.
    "I am very good at reading women, but I get into trouble for using the Braille method."

    ~ Otterpop ~

  14. #164
    Cyburbian Zoning Goddess's avatar
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    Ugh. My kid had colic for 4 months and if you don't develop patience with that, you go to the nuthouse. It was stressful for a couple years, then I had a delightful child up until about age 12 (now 15). Patience nowadays consists of not taking a 2 x 4 to your kid when you discover he's downloaded porn to your computer and sent all your wedding pics to the recycle bin. We'll have a talk tomorrow.

    You never know when you're ready. I had never even diapered a kid before I had my son at almost-36, but the "parent" thing can click in pretty quick.

  15. #165
    Cyburbian Plus
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    Being around my niece (10) and nephew (7) for a week was
    fun, trying, humbling, stressfull, challenging and other feelings.

  16. #166
    Chairman of the bored Maister's avatar
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    Quote Originally posted by zmanPLAN View post
    Sometime I wonder if I will have patience for children.
    http://www.newsweek.com/id/143792
    The most recent comprehensive study on the emotional state of those with kids shows us that the term "bundle of joy" may not be the most accurate way to describe our offspring. "Parents experience lower levels of emotional well-being, less frequent positive emotions and more frequent negative emotions than their childless peers," says Florida State University's Robin Simon, a sociology professor who's conducted several recent parenting studies, the most thorough of which came out in 2005 and looked at data gathered from 13,000 Americans by the National Survey of Families and Households. "In fact, no group of parents—married, single, step or even empty nest—reported significantly greater emotional well-being than people who never had children. It's such a counterintuitive finding because we have these cultural beliefs that children are the key to happiness and a healthy life, and they're not."
    http://www.bellaonline.com/articles/art43105.asp
    A recent study conducted by the American Sociological Association concluded that parents are more likely to be depressed than their child free counterparts. People without children were deemed happier than any other group, including empty nesters
    Statistically speaking, you and your wife would probably lead happier lives without children.
    People will miss that it once meant something to be Southern or Midwestern. It doesn't mean much now, except for the climate. The question, “Where are you from?” doesn't lead to anything odd or interesting. They live somewhere near a Gap store, and what else do you need to know? - Garrison Keillor

  17. #167
    Cyburbian zman's avatar
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    Alas, Maister do I dare launch into a commentary on priorities, consumerism, keeping up with the Joneses, priorities and personal responsibilty in a vain attempt to counter your topic?



    Not that I know, having no kids.


    However, I did think about this last night. According to many Myers-Briggs Tests I have taken, I test as a personality type INFP. We INFPs tend to seek perfection in people but also think that such perfection must be acheived (read: we're too shy to ask of it from those around us). Part of my frustrations with the dogs are when they do not act perfectly, I get mighty frustrated. I am scared of this with children as well. This INFP stuff is interesting to read because it does say a lot about my personality, but also it is easy to hide behind it, using it as an excuse.

    More stuff to sort out, but I have some time before kids come along.
    You get all squeezed up inside/Like the days were carved in stone/You get all wired up inside/And it's bad to be alone

    You can go out, you can take a ride/And when you get out on your own/You get all smoothed out inside/And it's good to be alone
    -Peart

  18. #168
    Cyburbian ofos's avatar
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    Quote Originally posted by Maister View post
    http://www.newsweek.com/id/143792

    http://www.bellaonline.com/articles/art43105.asp

    Statistically speaking, you and your wife would probably lead happier lives without children.
    Realistically speaking, my wife and I would be happier without sociologists doing inane studies. I've derived almost as much benefit from the American Sociological Association as I have from the American Planning Association. What, sarcasm? Where?
    “Death comes when memories of the past exceed the vision for the future.”

  19. #169
    Cyburbian wahday's avatar
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    Those are some interesting studies, Maister. Still, I wonder about some of the details of the study. Did they track parents over time? You never stop being a parent once you have kids and your view on "happiness" from 50 and having grown children may be different from having a 5 and 3 year old running around the house.

    And is "happiness" really the issue here? Would it have been different if they asked respondents if they felt "fulfilled"? or something else more nuanced - satisfied, gratified?

    Yes, children are hard work and I might be "happier" (or really, just less stressed, which is not necessarily the same thing) on a daily basis if I did not have them. But is that the same as being "gratified"? For example, I feel a much deeper purpose in life with children than without (and I'm not saying those without have no purpose - just how it makes me feel). I feel like I am giving something to the larger world - stewarding another generation into adulthood, continuing the race, hopefully making it an improved place.

    Also, I wonder about questions of "joy" as compared to "happiness." The level and intensity of joy I get from my kids exceeds anything I experienced before. Which is not the same as saying I am "happy" on a day-to-day basis. The joy comes in spurts. Maybe it is made even sweeter by the struggles, I don't know.

    Sorry to rant. I realize you did not conduct the study or even think its results mean we shouldn't have kids. I just sometimes get frustrated with the conception that being personally "happy" on a regular basis is really the golden chalice we should be chasing as a society. Isn't there more to life than that?
    The purpose of life is a life of purpose

  20. #170
    Chairman of the bored Maister's avatar
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    Quote Originally posted by wahday View post
    I just sometimes get frustrated with the conception that being personally "happy" on a regular basis is really the golden chalice we should be chasing as a society. Isn't there more to life than that?
    Yeah, only one Cyburbian 'fessed up to that on the highly scientific sociological study conducted on Cyburbia last year. According to the highly-regarded Cyburbian study we should be chasing other people's happiness as a society (that, or we should be chasing 42, but interpretation of the data is ongoing).

    Now that ofos has been shown a real example of sociology at work, I bet he feels real bad for implying these sorts of studies are useless!

    Wait a minute...am I on the right thread? Oh wait, here it is.
    People will miss that it once meant something to be Southern or Midwestern. It doesn't mean much now, except for the climate. The question, “Where are you from?” doesn't lead to anything odd or interesting. They live somewhere near a Gap store, and what else do you need to know? - Garrison Keillor

  21. #171
    Cyburbian Planit's avatar
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    Well We Did It

    We have reached a milestone - a passage of rite if you will - in parenting. Last week while vacation back home in Florida, we took Wee P to the Magic Kingdom at WWD for the day. We didn't tell her where she was going and let her figure it out. It was great to seeing that little mind working as she saw different things driving to the gate and then hearing annoucements and other kids talking. Then it clicked and her face lit up.

    She did very well, but whined about a buying things a couple times (when the rides dump you out into the store to exit). Over all pretty good for a 5 year old in August heat.

    And for her parents, well I need the t-shirt that says "We survived the Disney World Death March 2008"
    "Whatever beer I'm drinking, is better than the one I'm not." DMLW
    "Budweiser sells a product they reflectively insist on calling beer." John Oliver

  22. #172
    Cyburbian
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    I take my oldest daughter to NC for her first semester at college this weekend. I don't know how I'll be able to drive away. I watched her leave for school everyday for 13 years, and soon she'll be on her own. I thought that she would always be five years old....

  23. #173
    Cyburbian Jen's avatar
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    First semester away at college, Wow that is quite the milestone! Is she excited much?

    But you've just injected fear into me! wah

  24. #174
    Cyburbian
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    She's excited and anxious, thanks for asking. She is the only girl-child here, and has been in her own room, so sharing a room with a stranger, let alone a stranger from Kenya, has her a little worried.

    A guy I know at work told me that when it's time to leave NC, to drive 50 miles before stopping. I am a litlle afraid that I'll lurk around campus until I'm sure she's OK. It'll be tough to go.

    I don't think that there's any way to prepare for this.

  25. #175
    Super Moderator luckless pedestrian's avatar
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    good luck kms -

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