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Thread: What's In a Name?

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    Chairman of the bored Maister's avatar
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    What's In a Name?

    What image does the phrase 'cocktail lounge' evoke in your minds?
    How does it differ from a 'bar'?

    What about the phrase 'barber shop'? vs 'hair salon'?

    Or 'service station' vs 'gas station'?

    'Market' vs 'grocery'?
    People will miss that it once meant something to be Southern or Midwestern. It doesn't mean much now, except for the climate. The question, “Where are you from?” doesn't lead to anything odd or interesting. They live somewhere near a Gap store, and what else do you need to know? - Garrison Keillor

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    Cyburbia Administrator Dan's avatar
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    Quote Originally posted by Maister View post
    What image does the phrase 'cocktail lounge' evoke in your minds?
    How does it differ from a 'bar'?

    What about the phrase 'barber shop'? vs 'hair salon'?

    Or 'service station' vs 'gas station'?

    'Market' vs 'grocery'?
    Cocktail lounge: 1960s-era establishment with Googie-jet age styled signate, furniture, and fittings. 40 years of nicotine stains coating every horizontal surface. Clientèle in their 60s.



    There's also the 1980s-era cocktail lounges, usually something like a bar in an airport-area Ramada Inn that used to be the Holiday Inn that used to be the Sheraton, outside of someplace like Syracuse, Toledo or Dayton. The likes of "Vic Delvecchio" or "Tony Callazone" may still be crooning cover songs on Friday nights. The crowd must include several divorcees in their mid-to-late 40s, replete with Eighties hair, who will stand up and begin to dance wildly when Vic starts to sing "Celebrate Good Times". If you're lucky, there might be some potted ferns on display. (Sorry New Zealanders)

    Barber shop: see the thread we had about it ... oh, a couple of years or so ago.

    Service station: old 1960s gas station, with a couple of bays for minor car repairs and maintenance work. Still not the best place to take an import for more than an oil change. If you've got an older Ford, GM or Chrysler car, "without all that fancy computer crap", you can't beat an old-school service station.

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    off on a slight tangent but... my mate's favourite phrase is 'cocktail jugs' as it contains three rude words.

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    Cyburbian GeogPlanner's avatar
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    Quote Originally posted by Maister View post
    'Market' vs 'grocery'?
    One in the same.
    Information necessitating a change of design will be conveyed to the designer after and only after the design is complete. (Often called the 'Now They Tell Us' Law) - Fyfe's First Law of Revision

    We don't believe in planners and deciders making the decisions on behalf of Americans. -- George W. Bush , Scranton, PA -- 09/06/2000

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    Chairman of the bored Maister's avatar
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    LOL! Just knew we could count on Uncle Dan to paint that picture!

    Well, I'm off to the "Thunderbird Lounge" for a few drinks. Maybe buy a pack of Chesterfields from the vending machine near the entrance, and I'll have to check the time on the Black Label clock on the wall to make sure I'm home in time for dinner. The missus is making meatloaf tonight and I wouldn't want to miss that.
    People will miss that it once meant something to be Southern or Midwestern. It doesn't mean much now, except for the climate. The question, “Where are you from?” doesn't lead to anything odd or interesting. They live somewhere near a Gap store, and what else do you need to know? - Garrison Keillor

  6. #6

    OK, I'll bite

    I wonder if some of the images we have of these things aren't influenced by events in our childhood - overheard conversations, snippets of things on TV.

    A cocktail lounge: dim lighting, mood music and leather banquettes. Maybe even waitresses in little cutesy outfits. Mixed drinks like Screwdrivers and Long Island Ice Teas. A place to meet for an illicit tryst.

    A bar: formica counter with mismatched stools, twangy Country-Western music on the jukebox and lots of plumbers' crack! Maybe a TV with a ballgame on it. Ladies better hold their own coming in here.

    Barber shops and hair salons I think of as gender specific. That's less the case these days where ladies are barbers and men are 'stylists'. But overall, the former with a white-coated gentlemen holding a straight razor and the smell of steam from the hot towels. The latter has top-40 music, the smell of perms and ladies under domed hair dryers. (yes, they still use them!) And miles of gossip!

    Service stations are like the ones on the Merritt Parkway in CT - little cute brick buildings with a couple of pumps out front and a store for drinks and munchies. No more windshield washes, though. Gas stations are similar but with a couple of bays for mechanics and the smell of brake fluid.

    As for market vs: grocery, I think of the one in my town. They have the basics - produce, grocery items, fresh meat and a deli counter. Limited choices but mostly what you need. It's run by a local family and they employ lots of high school kids at the registers or stocking the shelves. It's friendly and comfortable. A grocery has the basics plus International foods, an entire aisle for cheeses and meats, a salad bar and maybe a sushi chef making Maki Rolls near the fish counter. Add the extra aisles with all the frozen stuff and housewares.

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    Cyburbian Mud Princess's avatar
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    Cocktail lounge vs. bar... but what about "tavern"? Is that term used where you live?

    I tend to associate "tavern" with pizza, because some of the better places to get pizza when I was growing up were taverns - my favorite was Smith's Tavern, a/k/a Smitty's. You couldn't get pizza at a bar or a cocktail lounge!

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    Cyburbian KSharpe's avatar
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    To me, a "tavern" is a place frequented by frontiersmen, like Davy Crockett. A cocktail lounge has a slightly higher conotation for me, along the same lines as a martini bar. A bar is a downhome kind of place, no dancing. A pub is like a bar, only the beers are 9 dollars. A club is for 19 year old girls and then men that would grind them.
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    Cyburbian the north omaha star's avatar
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    I think this goes back to our regional vernacular discussion a while back. Balitmoreans will say "I'm going food shopping or "to the market". Or they say weird things like "hamburger meat".

    Back home, we say "grocey shopping or simply the store". This implies that you are buying food. "Shopping" is going to the mall or Sears, something other than a place to buy groceries. When you go to the store, you buy hamburger. We already know its a meat. To go get hamburgers you are implying that you are going to (fill in fast food establishment here).

    Back to the original discussion

    a cocktail lounge is dimly lit and red carpet and red vinyl booths. Looks like something from a blaxploitation movie. A bar/tavern is a place that has both alcohol and food.

    A service station is a gas station that has minor maintenance services. Service stations in their present form are dying off much like the full-service fill-up and the guy in the white uniform who does it.

    A grocery store is a store like Safeway, Albertsons, Hy-Vee, Kroger. A market is something like a flea market, farmers' market or a side of the road store that's not big enough to be a grocery store.
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    Cyburbian otterpop's avatar
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    'cocktail lounge' = dark, probably smoky oasis from life's travails. May or may not be connected to a restaruant. Lots of booths. Waitresses wearing short skirts and heels, possibly with a generous display of cleavage. Older patrons sipping mixed drinks. Maybe a man or woman in the corner playing the piano for atmosphere.

    'bar' - not so dark, more smokey and possibly food service. Gambling machines. Long wooden bar with an back bar with a mirror. Most of the patron are seated at the stools. Waitresses are in blue jeans and t-shirts bearing the logo of the bar. No music unless there is a band, and then there is a cover charge. Patrons are mostly young though some bars cater to the old alkies.

    'barber shop'? vs 'hair salon'? In a barbershop you are likely to get your hair cut by a man, there are adult magazines to peruse while you wait. You don't always have to make an appointment. In a hair salon, you probably get your hair cut by a woman, the magazines are gender neutral or geared for women and you probably need to call ahead for an appointment. You probably also pay more for your haircut.

    Or 'service station' vs 'gas station'? Service station you get full service and at a gas station you pump yourself and check your own oil.

    'Market' vs 'grocery'? Interchangeable. The word "market" lends more of a neighborhood feel to the establishment. Grocery, to me, sounds a little more affordable.
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    Cyburbian KSharpe's avatar
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    Does anyone refer to "davenports"? As in a couch? How about laveratory?
    Do you want to pet my monkey?

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    Cyburbian Queen B's avatar
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    Might I add "Dinner"

    On the farm "Dinner" is the meal served in the middle of the day, generally the largest.

    Supper is the last meal of the day.

    But others see "Dinner" as a large evening meal.
    It is all a matter of perspective!!!

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    Super Moderator kjel's avatar
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    Cocktail lounge: dark, leather, mixed drinks, throwback to the 50's & 60's.
    Bar: hang out place to get wings, beer, shoot some pool or throw some darts.

    Barbershop: For men to get a no-nonsense hair cut, shave, etc.
    Hair Salon: Usually frequented by women and more high maintenance men for cut, color, perms, blow outs, nails, etc.

    Service Station: A gas station with mechanic services and the rapidly disappearing full service treatment while gassing up.
    Gas Station: You get gas and most have some sort of convenience store.

    Grocery: Big chain store with everything under the sun in it, impersonal.
    Market: Smaller, just the basics, often with great people working in it.

    Davenport: Uncomfortable sofa or couch that you weren't allowed to sit on because it was for "company" often located in the unused front room.
    Couch/Sofa: Something much more comfy to lay on, sit on, jump on, etc located in the family room in front of the tv.
    "He defended the cause of the poor and needy, and so all went well. Is that not what it means to know me?" Jeremiah 22:16

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    Cyburbian JNL's avatar
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    Quote Originally posted by otterpop View post
    'cocktail lounge' = dark, probably smoky oasis from life's travails. May or may not be connected to a restaruant. Lots of booths. Waitresses wearing short skirts and heels, possibly with a generous display of cleavage. Older patrons sipping mixed drinks. Maybe a man or woman in the corner playing the piano for atmosphere.
    Interesting. I'm familiar with this setting, from movies, but we don't have anything like it in New Zealand - or, not that I'm aware of. Sorry guys, but you'll never see "Waitresses wearing short skirts and heels, possibly with a generous display of cleavage" - it's just not the done thing. Cleavage maybe, but most likely a t-shirt or shirt and long pants, probably both black. So I have quite a different image of a cocktail lounge - subtract the older people and the piano, add trendy young hipsters stopping by for a post-work drink, a great selection of cocktails with fresh ingredients, bar stools and maybe dim lighting, but probably a lot of mirrors and/or some sort of lighting feature, loud music and a DJ booth in the corner for later in the evening. This is different from a club which would be much larger in size.

    A bar on the other hand, makes me think of a larger establishment with a wider mix of types of people, mostly drinking beer and more casually dressed. Definitely beer on tap, and usually with a wine selection and spirits on display. I think of wood panelling around the bar and wooden flooring, high ceilings, a mixture of bar stools and booth or table seating, and usually large windows/doors opening onto an outdoor seating area. Since the smokefree legislation came in, most places have added outdoor seating (which has been a headache in some cases for the local authority). I guess we do have a few of the smaller, internalised, dimly lit types too, but I'm picturing a number of the larger places that attempt some class but are really just "booze barns".

    That's my $0.02, from a downunder perspective

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    Chairman of the bored Maister's avatar
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    Cocktail lounge - ordering wine at such an establishment would raise eyebrows. Also, food may or may not be available; if it is, the menu will be oddly frozen in time and one may safely depend there will be nothing more exotic on the 'menu' than hamburgs. The zaftig, middle aged waitress (guanteed no waiter), by contrast, will not be a specimen frozen in time and will preface her order taking by addressing you as 'dear' or 'honey' regardless of your age,gender, or standing.

    Pub - better lighting available. Food will definitely be served. The jukebox will feature music from a broad range of styles. A portion of the establishment will likely even be free of the permanent stale smoke scent that typifies most bars and cocktail lounges. The menu will include hamburgers, pizza, nachos and probably wings. Ordering wine won't raise an eyebrow but the wine available will likely come out of a box and varieties will consist of red, white and blush.

    Bar - depending on the region, both types of music will be found on the jukebox. The menu will be completely unimaginative but should satify the palattes of anyone who's just pounded four beers and two boilermakers.
    People will miss that it once meant something to be Southern or Midwestern. It doesn't mean much now, except for the climate. The question, “Where are you from?” doesn't lead to anything odd or interesting. They live somewhere near a Gap store, and what else do you need to know? - Garrison Keillor

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    Cyburbian GeogPlanner's avatar
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    Quote Originally posted by Mud Princess View post
    Cocktail lounge vs. bar... but what about "tavern"? Is that term used where you live?

    I tend to associate "tavern" with pizza, because some of the better places to get pizza when I was growing up were taverns - my favorite was Smith's Tavern, a/k/a Smitty's. You couldn't get pizza at a bar or a cocktail lounge!
    You wouldn't happen to be referring to the pride of Voorheesville...THE Smith's?

    We also toss around "pub" alot. Mostly because our haunt is the "Across the Street Pub" but we'll also refer to other bars outside of our immediate area as a pub if on a trip or something.

    Bar = Adults after work or taking a liquid lunch, a hangout for college students and twenty somethings in the later hours. Limited food choice. All are welcome but there are the handful of regulars who have domain over any TVs.

    Tavern = Older adults. Lots of regulars. Food choice is limited to chips and popcorn. Usually an old bowling game with that dust stuff you have to put on the surface to get it to slide. Has that cleanbut old bar smell. Strangers feel out of place.

    Pub = Mix of ages. Regulars around the bar and regulars with families eating dinner. Usually two seperate rooms. Strangers welcome. "Public Room"
    Information necessitating a change of design will be conveyed to the designer after and only after the design is complete. (Often called the 'Now They Tell Us' Law) - Fyfe's First Law of Revision

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    Cyburbian Planning Fool's avatar
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    [QUOTE=kjelsadek;389705]
    Service Station: A gas station with mechanic services and the rapidly disappearing full service treatment while gassing up.
    Gas Station: You get gas and most have some sort of convenience store.QUOTE]

    Those definitions make sense, however in my jurisdiction there is no distinction between the two, they're all service stations in our county, it's just a mater of what accessory uses do they have...i.e.; service station w/quick service food store, service station w/mini-mart.
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    Cyburbian Mud Princess's avatar
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    Quote Originally posted by GeogPlanner View post
    You wouldn't happen to be referring to the pride of Voorheesville...THE Smith's?
    Yup! Smitty's has been famous for their pizza since I was a wee tot.

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    Chairman of the bored Maister's avatar
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    Quote Originally posted by JNL View post
    That's my $0.02, from a downunder perspective
    Okay, JNL, where do (or did) all the crusty old farts gather to drink beer and talk about 'the War'?
    People will miss that it once meant something to be Southern or Midwestern. It doesn't mean much now, except for the climate. The question, “Where are you from?” doesn't lead to anything odd or interesting. They live somewhere near a Gap store, and what else do you need to know? - Garrison Keillor

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    Cyburbian Fat Cat's avatar
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    Fat Cat

    Have never really gave it much thought, but in some areas that I have worked a tavern served only beer and wine while beer wine and spirits were served in coctail lounges, and bars. Clubs in name could be either private or public but for licensing purposes clubs were private.
    One area I worked in beer joints was a common term and in the same area pub was a common term
    Not much of a frequenter of acoholic serving establishments so have never given this much thought.
    However remember service stations as establishments where there were repair facilities as well as gas
    C-stores as being convience stores that sell gas
    When I refer to soda pop while others refer to it as pop, I get some strange looks
    Some areas I have been pizza is refered to as a pizza pie but it is flat and not pan pizza, first time I ordered one, I asked if I had made a mistake but was informed that I had not that this was a pizza pie (flat flat flat)
    I go to a one man barber shop for what little hair I have left and the tv is on all news channels (usually CNN) or on a game and the magzines are primarily auto and sports, the newspapers are the local one along with USA Today, I go there primarily because this is where the local politicians go and I can usually pickup a lot of useful information.

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    Cyburbian Zoning Goddess's avatar
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    If you use the term "pizza pie" in central FL you are either laughed out of the state or run over by a redneck in a pickup (just a fact, I'm not complaining....). Same if you say "pop" for soda.

    "Cocktail lounge" evokes images of RJ's pool deck....

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    Cyburbian Mud Princess's avatar
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    Quote Originally posted by Zoning Goddess View post
    If you use the term "pizza pie" in central FL you are either laughed out of the state or run over by a redneck in a pickup (just a fact, I'm not complaining....). Same if you say "pop" for soda.
    I once had a roommate from Wisconsin who used the term "pop" for soda. The first time she said she wanted to get a pop, I was sure she was asking for pot.

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    Cyburbian DetroitPlanner's avatar
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    Funny if you use soda for pop in Michigan you'd get laughed at!
    We hope for better things; it will arise from the ashes - Fr Gabriel Richard 1805

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    Pub - something you'll find on the end of most streets in the UK. Often very old, smoky (not for much longer), cheaper than most other boozing places. Also found in many towns centres down back alleys/ginnels/snickets, where the eyes of the international brewery companies cannot pry... Opening hours 11am-12am (with lock-ins available at the discretion of the landlord). Traditional English pub grub available. see: The Red Lion, Black Bull, Golden Lion, Queens Head, Kings Arms, The Golden Ball and many other 'traditional' names'.

    Bar - 'new' drinking establishments (compared to pubs), usually independents, often with just one word in their name. Frequented by young professionals quaffing bottled continental lagers, German beers, most will serve some form of cocktail usually quite competently made. Often independently run or small, local chains. Open usually 4pm-early hours e.g. 4/5/6am. Food often available, try to be a bit different so expect wraps, nachos, wasabi peas, burgers and fries. See (in Leeds): North, Sela, Reform, Milo, Mojos, Sandinista, oporto, Santiago, Jake's, Norman's, Frank's, Coco*.

    Cocktail Lounge - a foreign concept, particularly in my part of the UK. Places which serve cocktails will fit under the 'bar' definition above.

    Tavern - same as pub really, but probably bigger. Likely to have been a coaching inn way back when.

    Drinking Sheds - cavernous inside, surprisingly lack of seating, designed to get vast quantities of lurid coloured booze down punters neck. Open 11am til 2am. Will serve 'food' in the daytime - anything that will fit in a microwave. See: Walkabout, Yates', Edwards, any manner and number of national chain establishments

    Gastropub - old quaint boozers that have been bought, tarted up (ie insides ripped out) and reopened as some minimalist/modern nightmare, usually serving above average food though. Open 11am til 12am. See: you can't miss them they'll be the ones serving the latest food fad, but be warned, they often retain the name of the old pub it 'replaced'.

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    Cyburbian JNL's avatar
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    Quote Originally posted by Maister View post
    Okay, JNL, where do (or did) all the crusty old farts gather to drink beer and talk about 'the War'?
    At the RSA (Returned Services Association) club. Usually tucked away somewhere in a town by a memorial park. Cheap drinks, if you want to go hang with the old fogies

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