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Thread: The NEVERENDING Gas Price Thread

  1. #251
    Cyburbian
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    If my calculations are right, noj is paying $8.87 a gallon. I guess I'd be looking to drive a 60 miles to the gallon vehicle at that price as well. And I guess this proves the point that no matter how bad I've got it, somebody else has it worse.

  2. #252
    Cyburbian
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    It's not the $8 + per gal that hurts as much as the $120 + per tank!

    In England there is a four day strike by tanker drivers planned starting tomorrow morning - it will impact about 10% of the stations, however other suppliers may honor the strike in which case it will be more. This issue is that the oil companies with huge profits are not awarding an adequate increase to the tanker drivers (nothing to do with taxes this time).

    The message from the govt is "it will be fine if there's no panic buying" so obviously the queues have begun forming. It will be interesting to see what that does to the prices... and bahaviour. I'm certainly willing to quit mowing the lawn for the summer!

  3. #253
    Cyburbian Plus
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  4. #254
    Cyburbian tsc's avatar
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    I just paid $4.49 today...for 87 octane. I just switched my camping reservations this weekend to someplace closer...cutting my round trip by 200 miles. At 16 mpg towing the camper...it adds up. I am now going only 39 miles away. Wanted to spend more time in this area anyway...and less driving is good all the way around.
    "Yeehaw!" is not a foreign policy

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  5. #255
    Cyburbian ofos's avatar
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    Apparently the Saudi's are going to start pumping a few 100,000 more barrels per day. That's pretty much just p*ssing into the wind as far as having any impact on your price at the pump.
    “Death comes when memories of the past exceed the vision for the future.”

  6. #256
    Cyburbian boiker's avatar
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    Quote Originally posted by ofos View post
    Apparently the Saudi's are going to start pumping a few 100,000 more barrels per day. That's pretty much just p*ssing into the wind as far as having any impact on your price at the pump.
    I still don't get how adding supply is going to lower a price inflated by speculation and dollar value issues.
    Dude, I'm cheesing so hard right now.

  7. #257
    Unfrozen Caveman Planner mendelman's avatar
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    Quote Originally posted by boiker View post
    I still don't get how adding supply is going to lower a price inflated by speculation and dollar value issues.
    Indeed. My understanding is that the supply is OK, but the worldwide demand is increasing geometrically.
    I'm sorry. Is my bias showing?

    Let's not be didactic in this profession, because that is a path to disillusion and irrelevancy.

    Six seasons and a movie!

  8. #258
    Cyburbian zman's avatar
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    Quote Originally posted by mendelman View post
    Indeed. My understanding is that the supply is OK, but the worldwide demand is increasing geometrically.
    I was discussing this over the phone with mother the other day. Shedding light on the 1970s oil crisis, OPEC decided to jerk the USA around, but stopped when realizing that the USA was a huge OPEC customer at that point. So we got cheap oil again.

    Now China and India are causing more of a demand the market is now jerking the USA around because the demand is so high.

    However, with that, the prices in India and China should rise as well. The people in those countries will get priced out a lot quicker than Joe Anybody, American Man and perhaps demand would lower that way.

    But who am I? I sleep-walked through Economics class...
    You get all squeezed up inside/Like the days were carved in stone/You get all wired up inside/And it's bad to be alone

    You can go out, you can take a ride/And when you get out on your own/You get all smoothed out inside/And it's good to be alone
    -Peart

  9. #259
    maudit anglais
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    Quote Originally posted by zmanPLAN View post
    However, with that, the prices in India and China should rise as well. The people in those countries will get priced out a lot quicker than Joe Anybody, American Man and perhaps demand would lower that way.
    It is my understanding that the Indian and Chinese governments subsidize oil costs to their consumers.

  10. #260
    Cyburbian imaplanner's avatar
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    Quote Originally posted by ofos View post
    That's pretty much just p*ssing into the wind as far as having any impact on your price at the pump.
    You know- even if oil was to drop to less than 100 dollars a barrel tomorrow I don't think we would see a significant decline in gas prices at the pump. The oil companies have called America's bluff that we would stop driving so much.

  11. #261
    Cyburbian zman's avatar
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    The weekend warriors were still out yesterday, heading home from the mountains and small reservoirs to the city (I was driving down to Denver to see Dad). I-25 was still clogged with big trucks towing their RV, some with a second trailer for a boat. It was like gas and diesel were still $1.25/gallon.

    What will give out first, the people's desire to drive at 6mpg to "camp" next to a treeless water storage facility in the hot North Colorado wind? Or will their credit cards get maxed out with $250 charges at the local Conoco station?

    Sorry, the cynicism and self-loathing is high today. Time to read Desiderata once again...
    You get all squeezed up inside/Like the days were carved in stone/You get all wired up inside/And it's bad to be alone

    You can go out, you can take a ride/And when you get out on your own/You get all smoothed out inside/And it's good to be alone
    -Peart

  12. #262
    Cyburbian boiker's avatar
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    Quote Originally posted by zmanPLAN View post
    ...........the market is now jerking the USA around because the demand is so high.

    However, with that, the prices in India and China should rise as well. The people in those countries will get priced out a lot quicker than Joe Anybody, American Man and perhaps demand would lower that way.
    The dollar is worth more than both currencies. However, as the value of the dollar falls against their currencies (as it has been happening), they earn purchasing power. If the price of oil was solely dictated by the value of the dollar, hypothetically they should see no net effect. Speculators are killing the affordability of oil for all nations and the dollar’s decline makes it all the more worse in the USA.

    Also, many countries are subsidizing the price of oil to keep energy affordable to their populace.
    Dude, I'm cheesing so hard right now.

  13. #263
    Cyburbian zman's avatar
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    Quote Originally posted by boiker View post
    Also, many countries are subsidizing the price of oil to keep energy affordable to their populace.
    Yes, but, aren't we doing this too?

    I read somewhere recently (perhaps this very thread) that US govt. subsidies are worth $3.50/gallon. Therefore without them, we'd be seeing $7.50/gallon (or similar).

    Maybe I am just way off though.
    You get all squeezed up inside/Like the days were carved in stone/You get all wired up inside/And it's bad to be alone

    You can go out, you can take a ride/And when you get out on your own/You get all smoothed out inside/And it's good to be alone
    -Peart

  14. #264
    Cyburbian DetroitPlanner's avatar
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    Quote Originally posted by zmanPLAN View post
    I read somewhere recently (perhaps this very thread) that US govt. subsidies are worth $3.50/gallon. Therefore without them, we'd be seeing $7.50/gallon (or similar).
    Rougly 40 cents on every gallon of gas purchased pays a tax dedicated for road or transit improvements in the United States. This is a relatively sticky situation as automobile drivers subsidize transit riders. With the proce of gas being so high, people are driving much less and trading in their larger vehicles for more fuel efficient cars, meaning the amount of money dedicated to fix roads and provide transit is going down at a relatively rapid rate. Tolls also subsidize transportation, but not oil directly. Most transportation agencies are stuggling these days to provide for basic maintenance.

    The other place where subsidies occur is in law enforcement. This is recouped somewhat though ticketing offenders. At the federal level it is probably uncalcuable the subsidies to oil producing nations through the defense department. In some metropolitan areas, such as Chicago, there is a sales tax that helps offset the cost of providing transit, but not roads.

    A lot of funding goes to subsidizing transportation in general, with more than most realize going to subsidize public transportation. However, I don't think we're subsidizing oil but rather we are subidizing the 'americanization' of oil producing nations.
    We hope for better things; it will arise from the ashes - Fr Gabriel Richard 1805

  15. #265

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    Off-topic:
    Cheers zman, good to be back


    The strike Mary mentions has been and gone, with no massive impact, although you got the usual profiteering - I read of one station in Devon (I think) which was charging £1.99 per litre. There's another one planned for later in the week.

    Bim, thanks for doing my workings out!

  16. #266
    Cyburbian CJC's avatar
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    Quote Originally posted by DetroitPlanner View post
    Rougly 40 cents on every gallon of gas purchased pays a tax dedicated for road or transit improvements in the United States. This is a relatively sticky situation as automobile drivers subsidize transit riders. With the proce of gas being so high, people are driving much less and trading in their larger vehicles for more fuel efficient cars, meaning the amount of money dedicated to fix roads and provide transit is going down at a relatively rapid rate. Tolls also subsidize transportation, but not oil directly. Most transportation agencies are stuggling these days to provide for basic maintenance.

    The other place where subsidies occur is in law enforcement. This is recouped somewhat though ticketing offenders. At the federal level it is probably uncalcuable the subsidies to oil producing nations through the defense department. In some metropolitan areas, such as Chicago, there is a sales tax that helps offset the cost of providing transit, but not roads.

    A lot of funding goes to subsidizing transportation in general, with more than most realize going to subsidize public transportation. However, I don't think we're subsidizing oil but rather we are subidizing the 'americanization' of oil producing nations.
    There are numerous tax advantages given to oil companies (where the biggest subsidies lie). There are deals made all the time for cheap or free land (or access to) given to develop pipelines, etc.
    Two wrongs don't necessarily make a right, but three lefts do.

  17. #267
    Cyburbian DetroitPlanner's avatar
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    Quote Originally posted by CJC View post
    There are numerous tax advantages given to oil companies (where the biggest subsidies lie). There are deals made all the time for cheap or free land (or access to) given to develop pipelines, etc.
    Excellent point. Me being a humble transportation bean counter sometimes forget those things.
    We hope for better things; it will arise from the ashes - Fr Gabriel Richard 1805

  18. #268
    Cyburbian imaplanner's avatar
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    Is opening up coastal waters to offshore drilling going to actually help with oil prices? It seems to me that it is certainly going to help the oil companies make more profits, but I'm not so sure that it will do anything for oil prices.

  19. #269
    Cyburbian boiker's avatar
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    Quote Originally posted by imaplanner View post
    Is opening up coastal waters to offshore drilling going to actually help with oil prices? It seems to me that it is certainly going to help the oil companies make more profits, but I'm not so sure that it will do anything for oil prices.
    I was trying to find the answer to this today. Based on EIA numbers, there does not appear to be any proven costal reserves beyond what they are already accessing from Texas and Louisiana. Flordia has something like 64 million barrels available. That's like spitting in the ocean. The daily world-wide demand is 80 million barrels a day!

    I'd like to know if someone was able to find better data.

    I was also thinking that if we had tapped these reserves earlier, we would have only lowered the price more when the prices were already low. We would've consumed more, and this whole oil crisis would have been delayed 6 months to 1 year. I hate hearing people bash the environmentalist as they were the sole cause of our energy problems. It appears that ANWAR, for instance, is about 7.7 billion barrels. It could be much higher (12 billion) or lower (5 billion) depending on what is technologicaly extractable. Furthermore, I'm concerned that the rates of production wouldn't be high enough to lower prices. In my quick search, estimates range up to 1 to 1.5 million barrels daily-- or less than 5% of our daily consumption (and less than 2% of worldwide consumption).One thing it would surely do is make someone a lot of money.
    Last edited by boiker; 18 Jun 2008 at 12:57 PM.
    Dude, I'm cheesing so hard right now.

  20. #270
    Cyburbian Raf's avatar
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    Shurb even said it would not effect prices now, but later down line with lower energy costs. Gotta love the speculation market here. This guy and the neo-cons are idiots. How is more oil going to ween us off our dependency? That's like saying to a crackhead that you need more crack to break an addiction.
    Men do dumb $hit... it is what they do to correct the problem that counts.

  21. #271
    Cyburbian zman's avatar
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    Van Halen had it right in their 1993 Right Now video.... and it continues to ring true.


    Right now, oil companies and old men are in control
    You get all squeezed up inside/Like the days were carved in stone/You get all wired up inside/And it's bad to be alone

    You can go out, you can take a ride/And when you get out on your own/You get all smoothed out inside/And it's good to be alone
    -Peart

  22. #272
    Cyburbian imaplanner's avatar
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    The 5 largest US oil companies made 36 billion dollars in profit (combined) over just the first three months of the year according to this article

  23. #273
    Cyburbian Raf's avatar
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    Quote Originally posted by imaplanner View post
    The 5 largest US oil companies made 36 billion dollars in profit (combined) over just the first three months of the year
    When i pay 4.60 at the pump this makes me feel great knowing that i have 35% of my 401k invested in the "energy fund." My rate of return in this investment has been almost 18% over the last 2 years.
    Men do dumb $hit... it is what they do to correct the problem that counts.

  24. #274
    Cyburbian zman's avatar
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    Yeah, but...

    I have mixed feelings on the Oil Profit Issue.

    Sure the oil companies are making TONS of cash right now and raking in huge profits while the rest of America feels the blunt of rising energy prices. But, they have every right to make as much dough as they can/want. If you owned a business, you'd want the same stuff.

    I think it is just the way they are going about things and the arrogance the executives portray when confronted about this.

    Typically, when other corporations are making record profits, you really feel nothing different in your everyday life. But oil is so engrained in everything we do/use/live in the USA that record prices and profits affect more people than other companies.

    Just shows how far things have gone.
    You get all squeezed up inside/Like the days were carved in stone/You get all wired up inside/And it's bad to be alone

    You can go out, you can take a ride/And when you get out on your own/You get all smoothed out inside/And it's good to be alone
    -Peart

  25. #275
    Cyburbian boiker's avatar
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    Quote Originally posted by zmanPLAN View post
    Typically, when other corporations are making record profits, you really feel nothing different in your everyday life. But oil is so engrained in everything we do/use/live in the USA that record prices and profits affect more people than other companies.
    This a main reason why many nations have nationalized their oil production. It's a public utility. A reasonable profit is acceptable, but a large profit is not.

    Did you know that the oil companies margins are fairly thin compared to a lot of industry? They're profits are as high as they are due to VOLUME of production. The margin has very little to do with it. Oil companies also benefit from some of the best tax incentives around. Money is available for exploration, research, etc. That subsidy is killing the consumer.
    Dude, I'm cheesing so hard right now.

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