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Thread: The NEVERENDING Gas Price Thread

  1. #301
    Cyburbian zman's avatar
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    Top 10 Good Things About $4 Gas

    The online article is too long to post here. IMO. But good none the less. I found this in another forum and there were a lot of folks denouncing this list....why?

    http://www.time.com/time/specials/packages...1819594,00.html

    1. Globalized Jobs Return Home
    2. Sprawl Stalls
    3. Four-Day Workweeks
    4. Less Pollution
    5. More Frugality
    6. Fewer Traffic Deaths
    7. Cheaper Insurance
    8. Less Traffic
    9. More Cops on the Beat
    10. Less Obesity
    You get all squeezed up inside/Like the days were carved in stone/You get all wired up inside/And it's bad to be alone

    You can go out, you can take a ride/And when you get out on your own/You get all smoothed out inside/And it's good to be alone
    -Peart

  2. #302
    Cyburbian boiker's avatar
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    Quote Originally posted by zmanPLAN View post
    The online article is too long to post here. IMO. But good none the less. I found this in another forum and there were a lot of folks denouncing this list....why?
    It runs counter to the current setup. Many don't want to be told they can no longer have extreme mobility and will not be able to afford the house on the frige. That's unamerican to many. We are supposed to be able to have complete freedom to do whatever we want however we want. Unfortunately, the realities of energy say otherwise.
    Dude, I'm cheesing so hard right now.

  3. #303
    Cyburbian zman's avatar
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    Quote Originally posted by boiker View post
    It runs counter to the current setup. Many don't want to be told they can no longer have extreme mobility and will not be able to afford the house on the frige. That's unamerican to many. We are supposed to be able to have complete freedom to do whatever we want however we want. Unfortunately, the realities of energy say otherwise.
    I have enjoyed the freedom to adopted many of the items on the list over the last couple years (except for the sprawl thing )

    I think it would grant more freedom. Freedom from the Conformity Herd.
    You get all squeezed up inside/Like the days were carved in stone/You get all wired up inside/And it's bad to be alone

    You can go out, you can take a ride/And when you get out on your own/You get all smoothed out inside/And it's good to be alone
    -Peart

  4. #304
    Cyburbian zman's avatar
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    Finally, the airlines are speaking to change in the wake of rising fuel costs in this open letter....


    An Open letter to All Airline Customers:

    Our country is facing a possible sharp economic downturn because of skyrocketing oil and fuel prices, but by pulling together, we can all do something to help now.

    For airlines, ultra-expensive fuel means thousands of lost jobs and severe reductions in air service to both large and small communities. To the broader economy, oil prices mean slower activity and widespread economic pain. This pain can be alleviated, and that is why we are taking the extraordinary step of writing this joint letter to our customers.

    Since high oil prices are partly a response to normal market forces, the nation needs to focus on increased energy supplies and conservation. However, there is another side to this story because normal market forces are being dangerously amplified by poorly regulated market speculation.

    Twenty years ago, 21 percent of oil contracts were purchased by speculators who trade oil on paper with no intention of ever taking delivery. Today, oil speculators purchase 66 percent of all oil futures contracts, and that reflects just the transactions that are known. Speculators buy up large amounts of oil and then sell it to each other again and again. A barrel of oil may trade 20-plus times before it is delivered and used; the price goes up with each trade and consumers pick up the final tab. Some market experts estimate that current prices reflect as much as $30 to $60 per barrel in unnecessary speculative costs.

    Over seventy years ago, Congress established regulations to control excessive, largely unchecked market speculation and manipulation. However, over the past two decades, these regulatory limits have been weakened or removed. We believe that restoring and enforcing these limits, along with several other modest measures, will provide more disclosure, transparency and sound market oversight. Together, these reforms will help cool the over-heated oil market and permit the economy to prosper.

    The nation needs to pull together to reform the oil markets and solve this growing problem.

    We need your help. Get more information and contact Congress by visiting www.StopOilSpeculationNow.com.


    Robert Fornaro
    President and CEO
    AirTran Airways

    Bill Ayer
    Chairman, President and CEO
    Alaska Airlines, Inc.

    Gerard J. Arpey
    Chairman, President and CEO
    American Airlines, Inc.



    Lawrence W. Kellner
    Chairman and CEO
    Continental Airlines, Inc.


    Richard Anderson
    CEO
    Delta Air Lines, Inc.


    Mark B. Dunkerley
    President and CEO
    Hawaiian Airlines, Inc.



    Dave Barger
    CEO
    JetBule Airways Corporation


    Timothy E. Hoeksema
    Chairman, President and CEO
    Midwest Airlines


    Douglas M. Steenland
    President and CEO
    Northwest Airlines, Inc.



    Gary Kelly
    Chairman and CEO
    Southwest Airlines Co.


    Glenn F. Tilton
    Chairman, President and CEO
    United Airlines, Inc.


    Douglas Parker
    Chairman and CEO
    US Airways Group, Inc.
    You get all squeezed up inside/Like the days were carved in stone/You get all wired up inside/And it's bad to be alone

    You can go out, you can take a ride/And when you get out on your own/You get all smoothed out inside/And it's good to be alone
    -Peart

  5. #305
    Cyburbian DetroitPlanner's avatar
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    Yesterday I had some meetings in Port Huron, Michigan. There was a Marathon in Port Huron selling gas for $3.89.9. There was probably about 90 cars in line to buy it. Its sad to see that folks are so desperate for lower priced gas they line up even at that price. A few months back people would not have even wanted gas at that price, now they are willing to waste hours of time to buy it at that price.
    We hope for better things; it will arise from the ashes - Fr Gabriel Richard 1805

  6. #306
    Cyburbian imaplanner's avatar
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    I'm not a big fan of high gas prices. But I do get a certain amount of satisfaction whenever I see somebody stressing about the fact that it just cost them 100 bucks to fill up their hummer/F350/etc. Does that make me a bad person?

  7. #307
    Cyburbian zman's avatar
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    Quote Originally posted by imaplanner View post
    I'm not a big fan of high gas prices. But I do get a certain amount of satisfaction whenever I see somebody stressing about the fact that it just cost them 100 bucks to fill up their hummer/F350/etc. Does that make me a bad person?
    Nope. I do the same thing.

    I haven't broken $75 filling up my Honda Pilot yet, but then again, it is only a 22 gallon tank.

    I did borrow my neighbor's Chevy One Ton Diesel the other week to pick a large item up from a garage sale. My wife offered to fill the tank , they said don't worry. So I bought him some beer instead.

    Whew...
    You get all squeezed up inside/Like the days were carved in stone/You get all wired up inside/And it's bad to be alone

    You can go out, you can take a ride/And when you get out on your own/You get all smoothed out inside/And it's good to be alone
    -Peart

  8. #308
    Cyburbia Administrator Dan's avatar
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    Prices seem to be heading down in Cleveland. For a few days, prices topped $4, but now the $3.9X range is more common; a few old-school service stations are still on the high end, though.

  9. #309
    Cyburbian Brocktoon's avatar
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    Quote Originally posted by DetroitPlanner View post
    Yesterday I had some meetings in Port Huron, Michigan. There was a Marathon in Port Huron selling gas for $3.89.9. There was probably about 90 cars in line to buy it. Its sad to see that folks are so desperate for lower priced gas they line up even at that price. A few months back people would not have even wanted gas at that price, now they are willing to waste hours of time to buy it at that price.
    You have to wonder why they do not do the math and realize they are only saving a few dollars by waiting...if you factor in their opportunity cost then they are not saving money at all.
    "If you don't like change, you're going to like irrelevance even less" General Eric Shinseki

  10. #310
    Super Moderator kjel's avatar
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    I paid $3.93 near my work today which is a bit lower than the $3.99-$4.19 that is prevalent around the area I live in. I am glad that I have a pretty efficient Ford Focus even though it's a bit gutless, it's only about $40 to fill.
    "He defended the cause of the poor and needy, and so all went well. Is that not what it means to know me?" Jeremiah 22:16

  11. #311
    Cyburbian DetroitPlanner's avatar
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    Quote Originally posted by Brocktoon View post
    You have to wonder why they do not do the math and realize they are only saving a few dollars by waiting...if you factor in their opportunity cost then they are not saving money at all.
    That was exactly my impression. Have things gotten that bad for some people that doing such things is logical? Apparantly yes. To save 20 cents a gallon, and most fill-ups are probably no more than 15 gallons, thats only three bucks off of $61.35, or a savings of less than 4.9 percent. Minimum wage in Michigan was just hiked to $7.50/hr.
    We hope for better things; it will arise from the ashes - Fr Gabriel Richard 1805

  12. #312
    Cyburbian Plus
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    What a headline - Gas prices could help end sprawl
    http://www.metrowestdailynews.com/ne...elp-end-sprawl

    Article references the subject of a previous thread:
    In March's Atlantic Monthly, Christopher Leinberger, a professor of urban planning, developer and visiting fellow at the Brookings Institution, wrote that "a major shift in the way many Americans want to live and work" is already under way, likely to cause suburban decay of the kind seen in inner cities last century.
    The article makes a good point about transit system and development relationship.
    Oddball
    Why don't you knock it off with them negative waves?
    Why don't you dig how beautiful it is out here?
    Why don't you say something righteous and hopeful for a change?
    From Kelly's Heroes (1970)


    Are you sure you're not hurt ?
    No. Just some parts wake up faster than others.
    Broke parts take a little longer, though.
    From Electric Horseman (1979)

  13. #313
    Cyburbian abrowne's avatar
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    Does anyone else feel that people are complaining way too much about gas prices? They've gone up, but it still represents such a small, small percentage of what people spend... People pay much less attention to interest rates, for example, but they have far more impact on household finances.

  14. #314
    Cyburbian DetroitPlanner's avatar
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    Quote Originally posted by abrowne View post
    Does anyone else feel that people are complaining way too much about gas prices? They've gone up, but it still represents such a small, small percentage of what people spend... People pay much less attention to interest rates, for example, but they have far more impact on household finances.
    I don't. For many, this is a huge issue. For a family living on minimum wage jobs its a catasrophe. This is impacting more than the cost of gasoline, as higher transport costs are impacting the rest of the economy (food, goods, services). When you look at it in terms of percentage of incomes, it has tripled since 2002, and in many cases folks are making significantly less (particularly manufacturing sectors) now than they did then.

    I can absorb the cost of the gasoline increase, but its what it is doing to the cost of food that I am noticing the most.
    We hope for better things; it will arise from the ashes - Fr Gabriel Richard 1805

  15. #315
    Super Moderator kjel's avatar
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    I'm getting peevish with the stations who are doing the price switcheroo for cash vs. card purchases. The sign on the street says one thing, on the pump it says something different.
    "He defended the cause of the poor and needy, and so all went well. Is that not what it means to know me?" Jeremiah 22:16

  16. #316

    Politicos see a chance to make hay

    Louisville metro area is in an attainment area. We are required to use Re-Formulated Gasoline (RFG) and we've been paying on average $.20-.25 more per gallon than those outside the attainment area. Folks started wondering why and one TV station looked into it and found other KY attainment areas were paying only $.08 more per gallon on average.

    It was amusing to see the governor and state senators, among others, scrambling to demand answers. Not demand refunds to those of us, possibly gouged by the oil companies under the guise of a "clean air" mandate, just answers

    Yes, indeed, the sun is shining on my ol kaintuck' home.

  17. #317
    Cyburbian imaplanner's avatar
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    Quote Originally posted by DetroitPlanner View post
    I don't. For many, this is a huge issue. For a family living on minimum wage jobs its a catasrophe. .
    Yes if you are a family with an SUV or a big truck living on minimum wage that could be a problem. But some of the most affordable and most reliable vehicles are also the ones getting the best gas mileage. People need to make better choices.

  18. #318
    Cyburbian michaelskis's avatar
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    Change

    I want to know why is it that all the democracts who seaid that they would lower gas prices once they took over in congress have done nothing. They have not ended the war (even though they control funding) they have not cleaned up the scandals, they have not done anything they said that they woud do.

    and yet people are thinking about voting for damocrat for president???
    Not my monkey, not my circus. - Old Polish Proverb

  19. #319
    Cyburbian Raf's avatar
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    Quote Originally posted by michaelskis View post
    they have not done anything they said that they woud do. and yet people are thinking about voting for damocrat for president???
    Tough to really do anything when you just have a simple majority in the senate and need a few republicans to pass any real legislation now isn't? Last time i checked, the "damocrats" proposed an alternatives energy package as a part of the last energy bill signed by "W" but was shot down because veto threat and the unwillingess of the republicans to sign off on such a bold idea. Then again, all the republicans can counter so far is more drilling (which takes about a good 7-10 years to get online) and the good ol' gas tax holiday (yea, that's a real winner proposal right there). How about some true change, like following the proposed California Standard for MPG, oh wait, bush and his cronies denied that already...
    Men do dumb $hit... it is what they do to correct the problem that counts.

  20. #320
    Cyburbian imaplanner's avatar
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    Quote Originally posted by michaelskis View post
    I want to know why is it that all the democracts who seaid that they would lower gas prices once they took over in congress have done nothing. They have not ended the war (even though they control funding) they have not cleaned up the scandals, they have not done anything they said that they woud do.

    and yet people are thinking about voting for damocrat for president???
    I don't know of anyone thinking about voting for a damocrat.

  21. #321
    Cyburbian CJC's avatar
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    Quote Originally posted by michaelskis View post
    I want to know why is it that all the democracts who seaid that they would lower gas prices once they took over in congress have done nothing. They have not ended the war (even though they control funding) they have not cleaned up the scandals, they have not done anything they said that they woud do.

    and yet people are thinking about voting for damocrat for president???
    Maybe they lied? Or had no control over the promises they made?

    I'm sure no Republicans have done either of those things over the past decade. Oh wait...
    Two wrongs don't necessarily make a right, but three lefts do.

  22. #322
    Cyburbian Plus Whose Yur Planner's avatar
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    Quote Originally posted by michaelskis View post
    and yet people are thinking about voting for damocrat for president???
    Somehow I think this pales in light of what has happened past 8 years. Let see-lets see.... we will run a war like a political campaign while we flush countless lives and dollars down the toliet. Gee, that makes we want to vote Republican. The problem is that when W and his crew did something illegal or questionable, they wrapped themsevles in the flag when somebody called them on it. Questioning people's patriotism to hide their b.s. The Dem's problem is they didn't have the cajones to call that disgracefull bunch on it. I'm shamed by the Democrats but I'm disgusted by the Republicans.
    Last edited by Whose Yur Planner; 14 Jul 2008 at 9:52 PM.
    When did I go from Luke Skywalker to Obi-Wan Kenobi?

  23. #323
    Cyburbian Veloise's avatar
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    Yup, those democracts seaid they'd fix everything.

    (Was that a PWI?)

  24. #324
    Cyburbian michaelskis's avatar
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    Typical of democrats... point out the typos instead of answering the question. Maybe it is because you do not have the answers. I was typing on my Treo because I was in between meetings in another city.

    Yes, the Democrats have a majority in the house and senate, but they preached non-stop how they would change America and lower the gas prices. Yet I canít think of one thing that they did to help.

    Drill here, drill now would be a good start. And donít give me this environmental crap. The technology to drill for oil is far, far safer than it has ever been, many of the risks associated with it including impacts on the wild life and natural environment, and technology allowing drilling to not only be vertical, but also horizontal has eliminated 99.99% of peoples fears.

    Everyone around the world is drilling off our shore... except for us. I also know that it would be 5 to 10 years before we see current drilling being turned into useable gas, however we had this option 10 years ago and decided not to. I do not want to have the same conversation going on in 10 years.


    Obama is weak on energy conservation regarding alternative energy production. His idea is to put more taxes on the oil company... the only reason that the CEOís make so much is because we buy so much. The markup is so tiny that the government makes more money than the oil companies for every gallon we buy. If you take away the remaining profit, why should any of them bother drilling at all. You think prices are high know, they will be insane if Obama gets into office. And as we see now, the price of gas influences the price of everything else.
    Not my monkey, not my circus. - Old Polish Proverb

  25. #325
    Cyburbian DetroitPlanner's avatar
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    Quote Originally posted by imaplanner View post
    Yes if you are a family with an SUV or a big truck living on minimum wage that could be a problem. But some of the most affordable and most reliable vehicles are also the ones getting the best gas mileage. People need to make better choices.
    I think you're missing the point, a minimum wage family could not afford an SUV or big truck to begin with. If they bought one, thats of their own ignorance. My big concern is what has happened to transport costs and the cost of alternative fuels and commodities. These things are going through the roof. I am amazed that if I stop to eat at a fast food joint how much it costs for a sub-standard meal these days. This has to because all have higher costs of doing business which gets passed along to the consumer.
    We hope for better things; it will arise from the ashes - Fr Gabriel Richard 1805

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