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Thread: Florida: privatization of government services, MSTU, MSBU. prop fair share

  1. #1
    Cyburbian
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    Florida: privatization of government services, MSTU, MSBU. prop fair share

    How far is this trend going ? We have MSTU, MSBU, now Prop Fair Share. There are 2 Floridas. The old "redneck" ag based one and the newer northern migration fed one. The newer it is, the more affluent it is. The politicians won't raise taxes across the board to pay for the needed infrastructure and the disproportionately high tax load on the newcomers is still not enough money to do the job. There is a class of people in Florida who are at subsistence levels, so now the counties are going to fee based improvements.
    The trend to "gated communities" is accelerating. ( or seems to be ) These gated communities have a large measure of autonomy and the developers have enormous latitude in running things until 95% of the lots are sold. In fact they write the law governing the community and I have been astounded by the deference shown the developers by the courts. The counties have an interest in this trend because upscale development pays more taxes and private roads will not be county maintained. We seem to be headed to a society like Mexico where the wealthy live behind concrete walls topped by broken glass to protect them from the riff-raff. This is not the America of my youth. I think it is being fed by higher crime rates fueled by drug use. Property crime is rampant in my County. They steal the street signs for scrap metal and take the plants out of the ground in new subdivisions, yet my county boasts a low crime rate.
    The "service people" can't afford housing.
    The gated communities aren't going to allow public traffic through their areas.
    Where is this heading and what is the view of Florida planners ?

  2. #2
    Cyburbian Plus Zoning Goddess's avatar
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    My view is you're still whining because you actually have to pay more than you'd like to pay. So how many threads/posts are we going to have to endure here? You could possibly post some threads that aren't so one-sided and take up a fair discussion.

    Obviously you are making plenty of $$ because you have so much time to post your complaints...

  3. #3
    NIMBY asshatterer Plus Richmond Jake's avatar
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    HITF is a person expected to respond to your conclusionary, shotgun blast statements? I give up reading your posts.
    I think that one of the great signs of security is the ability to just walk away.

  4. #4
    Cyburbian hilldweller's avatar
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    Quote Originally posted by Inventor View post
    How far is this trend going ? We have MSTU, MSBU, now Prop Fair Share. There are 2 Floridas. The old "redneck" ag based one and the newer northern migration fed one. The newer it is, the more affluent it is. The politicians won't raise taxes across the board to pay for the needed infrastructure and the disproportionately high tax load on the newcomers is still not enough money to do the job. There is a class of people in Florida who are at subsistence levels, so now the counties are going to fee based improvements.
    The trend to "gated communities" is accelerating. ( or seems to be ) These gated communities have a large measure of autonomy and the developers have enormous latitude in running things until 95% of the lots are sold. In fact they write the law governing the community and I have been astounded by the deference shown the developers by the courts. The counties have an interest in this trend because upscale development pays more taxes and private roads will not be county maintained. We seem to be headed to a society like Mexico where the wealthy live behind concrete walls topped by broken glass to protect them from the riff-raff. This is not the America of my youth. I think it is being fed by higher crime rates fueled by drug use. Property crime is rampant in my County. They steal the street signs for scrap metal and take the plants out of the ground in new subdivisions, yet my county boasts a low crime rate.
    The "service people" can't afford housing.
    The gated communities aren't going to allow public traffic through their areas.
    Where is this heading and what is the view of Florida planners ?
    I see the same trend occurring. As far as these special taxing districts (SADs, MSTUs or whatever the counties call them), what happens when the market gets even worse and the homes go unsold or into foreclosure? Local governments seem to have this "what me worry?" attitude to the situation that is really troubling.


    As for you ZG, what the hell is your problem?

  5. #5
    Cyburbian Flying Monkeys's avatar
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    Quote Originally posted by Inventor View post
    How far is this trend going ? We have MSTU, MSBU, now Prop Fair Share. There are 2 Floridas. The old "redneck" ag based one and the newer northern migration fed one. The newer it is, the more affluent it is. The politicians won't raise taxes across the board to pay for the needed infrastructure and the disproportionately high tax load on the newcomers is still not enough money to do the job. There is a class of people in Florida who are at subsistence levels, so now the counties are going to fee based improvements.
    The trend to "gated communities" is accelerating. ( or seems to be ) These gated communities have a large measure of autonomy and the developers have enormous latitude in running things until 95% of the lots are sold. In fact they write the law governing the community and I have been astounded by the deference shown the developers by the courts. The counties have an interest in this trend because upscale development pays more taxes and private roads will not be county maintained. We seem to be headed to a society like Mexico where the wealthy live behind concrete walls topped by broken glass to protect them from the riff-raff. This is not the America of my youth. I think it is being fed by higher crime rates fueled by drug use. Property crime is rampant in my County. They steal the street signs for scrap metal and take the plants out of the ground in new subdivisions, yet my county boasts a low crime rate.
    The "service people" can't afford housing.
    The gated communities aren't going to allow public traffic through their areas.
    Where is this heading and what is the view of Florida planners ?
    This is not your true view of things according to your previous posts....I think you are baiting... do you want to enter into a real dialog, or are you trying to create a controversy to which you can again air your views? If you really perceive the problem you have listed, then you need to ask yourself and your profession how we got here.
    What’s in a name? – Your reputation….:)

  6. #6
    Chairman of the bored Maister's avatar
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    Moderator note:
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    The tenor of this thread appears to be headed south quickly. Any future responses containing personal attacks or inflammatory language will result in yellow cards/red cards or thread closure as appropriate.
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  7. #7
    Member
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    New to Florida Planning

    I have worked in other states working my up and now landed in Daytona beach Florida as the Planning Director. The only thing I can say is that there is no true planning going on in Florida........ it seems the only thing we do is react to the State DCA's requirements. Maybe they think if the State controls planning at every single layer of planning by default good planning will happen. Thats not planning. There is no freedom for local planners to come up with inovative ideas in teerms of planning ..... just reacting to some state requirement that we submit something.

  8. #8
    Cyburbian boilerplater's avatar
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    We seem to be headed to a society like Mexico where the wealthy live behind concrete walls topped by broken glass to protect them from the riff-raff. This is not the America of my youth. I think it is being fed by higher crime rates fueled by drug use. Property crime is rampant in my County. They steal the street signs for scrap metal and take the plants out of the ground in new subdivisions, yet my county boasts a low crime rate.
    Are you honestly troubled by this? I mean, because it troubles me too. A good friend of mine in Parkland lives in one of those gated high-end deals, and they are all over the place here in LV. I've often wondered if the people in them have any issues with the societal implications. Is it a collective giving up on government to handle such things as road maintenance and the whole public realm? Is it no longer the function of governement to help create an attractive city?
    Adrift in a sea of beige

  9. #9
    Cyburbian hilldweller's avatar
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    Quote Originally posted by New World Planner View post
    I have worked in other states working my up and now landed in Daytona beach Florida as the Planning Director. The only thing I can say is that there is no true planning going on in Florida........ it seems the only thing we do is react to the State DCA's requirements. Maybe they think if the State controls planning at every single layer of planning by default good planning will happen. Thats not planning. There is no freedom for local planners to come up with inovative ideas in teerms of planning ..... just reacting to some state requirement that we submit something.
    Complying with the state growth management rules doesn't mean that creativity or local planning autonomy need to be stifled. To DCA's credit, they have respected local government planning efforts so long as they met the minimum requirements of Florida Statutes.

  10. #10
    Cyburbian
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    Marion County won't repair roads

    Relating to "privatization"
    There is now a proposal to cut 7.5 million from the Marion County budget for road repair. This is on top of a recent refusal to repave public roads in a subdivision. It looks like they are trying to "privatize" road repair on public roads within subdivisions. Can any planner, knowledgeable with the pertinent Florida legislation, tell me if this is legally defensible or consistent with the legislation that authorizes the powers and duties of County government. I think it is F.S. Chpt. 125 but I would like a planners view on the subject if you might have seen a similar circumstance or precedant in another Florida county.

  11. #11
    Cyburbian Flying Monkeys's avatar
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    Quote Originally posted by Inventor View post
    Relating to "privatization"
    There is now a proposal to cut 7.5 million from the Marion County budget for road repair. This is on top of a recent refusal to repave public roads in a subdivision. It looks like they are trying to "privatize" road repair on public roads within subdivisions. Can any planner, knowledgeable with the pertinent Florida legislation, tell me if this is legally defensible or consistent with the legislation that authorizes the powers and duties of County government. I think it is F.S. Chpt. 125 but I would like a planners view on the subject if you might have seen a similar circumstance or precedant in another Florida county.
    I guess Florida is getting tired of paying to fill your pockets with profits. To bad...
    What’s in a name? – Your reputation….:)

  12. #12
    Cyburbian
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    Misappropriation of Impact Fee funds

    Does any Florida planner have knowledge of misappropriation of impact fee monies ? Such as use of this money for maintenance instead of new infrastructure.
    What might be the proper remedy ?

  13. #13
    Cyburbian Flying Monkeys's avatar
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    What, smell a court case there Inventor? Sitting around with some other developer buddies and hit on this idea did ya?

    Quick, call your attorney.... check back here later and I will give you the dirt to help you save a buck....
    What’s in a name? – Your reputation….:)

  14. #14
    Cyburbian
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    Potential Court Case

    Quote Originally posted by Flying Monkeys View post
    What, smell a court case there Inventor? Sitting around with some other developer buddies and hit on this idea did ya?

    Quick, call your attorney.... check back here later and I will give you the dirt to help you save a buck....
    I can't take credit for this idea. A local land use attorney, employed by the builder's association, called the County Commission on the carpet for doing this. He will probably let it slide so he can get his projects approved.
    This is developer/new homeowner money and I don't think it is OK to steal it while complaining about the impacts of growth. I am sure you agree.

  15. #15
    NIMBY asshatterer Plus Richmond Jake's avatar
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    Quote Originally posted by Inventor View post
    Does any Florida planner have knowledge of misappropriation of impact fee monies ? Such as use of this money for maintenance instead of new infrastructure.
    What might be the proper remedy ?
    Into the conspiracy theory, are you?

    Our county recently adopted impact fees. I've had several calls since then from our finance director and DPW director. "RJ, can we use the impact fees for ___?"
    "No, you fools, you can't! Review the impact fee analysis on what the money can be spent on..."

    Blows your idea out of the water for our county. New development pays its own way...as it should.
    I think that one of the great signs of security is the ability to just walk away.

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