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Thread: Power centers

  1. #1
    Cyburbian
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    Power centers

    This is not true , I looked at Phoenix ,Denver and Las Vegas and there lots of power centers.May be not all those big box stores but lots of power centers in the 60's and 70's and also 80's .

    I will post some pictures soon.



    The first recognized power centre was 280 Metro Center in Colma, California, which was opened in 1986. A year later, Canada's first power centre, the Crossroads Centre, was built in Toronto.[3]

    Power centres began forming in the Greater Toronto Area in the late 1980s, and have since displaced nearly all traditional shopping mall development in the region, and to a lesser extent, the entire country. There are currently more than 300 power centres located throughout Canada.
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Power_centre

    Sure may be not box stores but there are power centers in the 60's, 70, and 80's to now.

  2. #2
    Cyburbian Cardinal's avatar
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    Actually, it is mostly true. Power centers came into being with the evolution of mid-box and big-box category-killer retailers such as Home Depot, Linens 'n Things, Cost Plus, OfficeMax, etc. Very few of these retailers (Toys R' Us, for instance) existed prior to the 1980's. Earlier retail centers did remodel to become power centers as these tenants began to expand and seek good sites, but the term was not coined and the majority of the tenants did not exist (at least in their present formats) prior to the 1980's.
    Anyone want to adopt a dog?

  3. #3
    Cyburbia Administrator Dan's avatar
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    What Cardinal said. Before the late 1980s, most large suburban strip shopping centers usually had one large discount department store (Kmart, Hills, Ames, Gold Circle, Venture, etc), a junior department store (Woolworth's, Ben Franklin, Murphy's, etc) or catalog store (Best, Service Merchandise, Dahlkemper's, etc), a supermarket, and a number of smaller stores of national/regional and local origin. Many plazas from the era had a branch of a local full-service department store, but by the 1970s most local department store chains located new stores in enclosed malls.

    As what Cardinal wrote, many older shopping centers were either demolished and replaced by power centers, or retrofitted. The suburbs of Buffalo are still filled with 1950s and 1960s-era shopping plazas that are virtually unchanged from the time they were built; Sheridan-Delaware Plaza and Southgate Plaza are perhaps truest to form.

    "Category killer" stores were rare; the only ones I can remember that were around before the 1990s are Jo-Ann Fabrics and Toys R Us. Most regions in North America had local appliance store and furniture store chains with outlets occupying a large amount of floor space, but many tended to locate in freestanding buildings. Same thing with home improvement stores of the era; they were quite small compared to a contemporary Home Depot and Lowe's, and most were freestanding. Zoning codes of the era usually classified such stores as "lumberyards", so they were often relegated to industrial areas. Even then, before the 1990s there were NO shopping centers with just the few category killer-type retailers of the era.

  4. #4
    Cyburbian
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    What Cardinal said. Before the late 1980s, most large suburban strip shopping centers usually had one large discount department store (Kmart, Hills, Ames, Gold Circle, Venture, etc), a junior department store (Woolworth's, Ben Franklin, Murphy's, etc) or catalog store (Best, Service Merchandise, Dahlkemper's, etc), a supermarket, and a number of smaller stores of national/regional and local origin. Many plazas from the era had a branch of a local full-service department store, but by the 1970s most local department store chains located new stores in enclosed malls.
    So the stores like Kmart,Zellers, Safeway,The Bay,Eatons,Sears or Canadian tire can be by it self in the parking lot alone or by a mall or plaza.And other hardware stores by it self alone in the parking lot or by mall or plaza.


    As what Cardinal wrote, many older shopping centers were either demolished and replaced by power centers, or retrofitted. The suburbs of Buffalo are still filled with 1950s and 1960s-era shopping plazas that are virtually unchanged from the time they were built; Sheridan-Delaware Plaza and Southgate Plaza are perhaps truest to form.
    Just to make sure we are talking about the same strip here has there are 3 types of store strips.We have this 40' and 50's strip here in Toronto with very small parking lot and store almost at the street and like no green.

    I took some pictures and uploaded it to mageshack.

    Almost at the street .


    Very small parking



    Almost no green and like at the street .


    More 40' and 50's strip .


    And more 40' and 50's strip



    Same thing with home improvement stores of the era; they were quite small compared to a contemporary Home Depot and Lowe's, and most were freestanding. Zoning codes of the era usually classified such stores as "lumberyards", so they were often relegated to industrial areas. Even then, before the 1990s there were NO shopping centers with just the few category killer-type retailers of the era
    I would say big box stores and power centers came in Toronto in the 90's but why Phoenix ,Denver and Las Vegas suburbs look different than Toronto is so strange.The only big box stores I know of in Mississauga are Britannia RD and Mavis RD lots of new big box stores other than that you got Meadowvale town center a enclosed mall,Erin mills town center a enclosed mall,South comman mall,Square one a enclosed mall,Eaton Sheridan Place and Dixie Vaule mall and 40's and 50's commercial strip.

    So really I know only one location of the big box stores and power center at Britannia RD and Mavis RD.

    In Vaughan I only know of really only 3 locations all very new build in late 90's at Weston and 7 and jane and 7 and also Weston and Rutherford.And only 2 malls Vaughan mills and Promenade mall.And almost no 40's and 50's commercial strip.

    In Brampton new big box stores came in the late 90's at 410 and Bovaird and new area being build now big box stores at Queen and Airport other that you got Kingspoint plaza,Centennial mall,Shoppers world,Beamalea city Center all enclosed malls, than down town you got store-fronts and other areas 40's and 50's commercial strip.

    And 2 other new area power centers or centers 410 and steeles ave and main street and Bovaird Dr. and also Mclaughiin RD. and Bovaird Dr.

  5. #5
    Cyburbia Administrator Dan's avatar
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    Quote Originally posted by nec209 View post
    I would say big box stores and power centers came in Toronto in the 90's but why Phoenix ,Denver and Las Vegas suburbs look different than Toronto is so strange.
    The development pattern of suburban areas in the Western US is much different than the Northeast, Great Lakes region or South because, partly because land usually wasn't endlessly subdivided into small farm and frontage parcels before it was developed. Western farms are much larger than those in the east, because of the lack of water -- it takes much more land to produce the same revenue than in an area where water is abundant.

    For residential development in the northeastern and southern US, planners will deal with a large number of small projects. In the west, planners will deal with a smaller number of very large projects. If you have the money, it's easy to acquire a section (one square mile) of land in a western state, but it's almost impossible to acquire the same amount of contiguous land in the northeast; it will usually be divided among tens or hundreds of property owners.

    The development pattern of Calgary and Edmonton isn't much different than Denver and Colorado Springs.

    Toronto has extremely high density development for a North American city; consider suburban high rise apartments, which are the norm in Toronto but uncommon in the United States. That is one indicator of very high land prices. Development of a US-style power center on a site may not generate a rate of return needed to make the project lucrative for the developer. University Square is a "vertical power center" with structured parking about two kilometers fron my house; it might be a model for the Toronto area.

  6. #6

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    I'm no expert on Western US land development patterns, but I would agree with what Dan said with one addition -- the vast amounts of Federal land that developers could buy, in addition to the huge farms. I know in Nevada, developers were buying up tens of thousands of acres of BLM land just outside of Vegas and building planned communities -- something unheard of where I am.

  7. #7
    Cyburbian
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    Quote Originally posted by Dan View post

    The development pattern of Calgary and Edmonton isn't much different than Denver and Colorado Springs.

    Toronto has extremely high density development for a North American city; consider suburban high rise apartments, which are the norm in Toronto but uncommon in the United States. That is one indicator of very high land prices. Development of a US-style power center on a site may not generate a rate of return needed to make the project lucrative for the developer. University Square is a "vertical power center" with structured parking about two kilometers fron my house; it might be a model for the Toronto area.

    So true about Denver and Calgary never seen that sprawl here in Toronto and the built environment looks very strange more on that at a later date.

    Anyways we are getting ahead here but there is still other post I have not got a reply to here.

  8. #8
    Cyburbian
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    Well its funny the 60's and 70's there seems to be lots of malls and apartments.

    And 80's and 90's big homes and like no apartments.And 90's here in Toronto lots of power centers in the 90's .Well it became fashionable here in the 90's for power centers and the 60's and 70's lots of malls.

    I don't know why apartments and the store strip is not fashionable must be some thing to do with cost.All big homes now and power centers .And enough of the small 60's and 70's homes.

  9. #9
    Cyburbian
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    I will see if some maps and photos may explain my post better has there have bean no reply to this post for weeks now.

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