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Thread: 2008 Garden Thread

  1. #1
    Chairman of the bored Maister's avatar
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    2008 Garden Thread

    It’s January once again, there’s snow on the ground, and the bleak winter skies have concealed the sun from us for several weeks now…that must mean it’s time to start the annual garden thread! I thought I’d kick this season’s garden thread off by encouraging/inviting my fellow Cyburbians to join me in converting a little bit of land currently serving as lawn area into a small kitchen garden this year. Here’s an essay I wrote recently to help motivate and inspire you to take part in this fun, educational, and healthy activity:



    War is a terrible thing but it frequently provides nations with a narrow focus in which to vector their energies. Thanks to those efforts, we often see rapid advances in technology or completion of significant organizational and engineering feats in short spans of time. One such endeavor that many Americans undertook during WWII was the nationwide planting of ‘victory gardens’. Citizens were exhorted to turn their back yards and apartment rooftops into vegetable garden plots to help ease demands the war placed on industrial farming. It’s estimated that about 20 million of these gardens provided nearly 40% of the vegetables consumed during the war. That’s no small potatoes! (rim shot)

    Tojo and Hitler may not be threatening to invade now, but between E. Coli scares, environmental concerns, retiring baby boomers with more time on their hands, and a desire for the freshest, tastiest produce available, starting our own ‘victory garden’ makes more sense now than ever. Lets look at a few of the reasons why:

    Eating like kings – make no mistake, large scale industrial farming has provided the world with an unprecedented quantity of food, but the past few generations of folks living in industrialized societies who have been raised upon food sold in supermarkets have little notion of what quality was sacrificed to achieve this result unless they have experienced eating home-grown vegetables. Industrial farmed fruits and vegetables are harvested from fields, shipped to processing/packaging facilities, and then shipped to regional food distribution warehouses and then trucked once again to the local supermarket where it is finally placed on the shelf to await purchase by the consumer. While refrigeration technology aids considerably in preserving produce from spoilage, it does not provide anywhere near the same freshness and flavor as two-minute old produce (or perhaps 20-minute old produce if grown on a community garden plot) that goes directly from the garden to the kitchen.

    Industrial farming not only deprives food of freshness, but often the types of plants grown are inferior in terms of flavor and texture to homegrown produce. Many varieties of fruits and vegetables are grown based on how well they ship and store, as opposed to how they taste. Varieties of strawberries, for instance, are selected for firmness (to withstand their journey through the packaging facility, and subsequent transport) and lower levels of sweetness (to diminish spoilage on the shelf). Home gardeners, not facing these challenges, can plant softer and sweeter varieties.

    Ecological concerns and consumer choice – Human activities disturb natural ecosystems in a variety of ways, and while some practices pose more serious threats to the environment than others, it’s safe to say that industrial farming practices represent some of the most visible threats. Various chemical fertilizers have been created to inject nitrogen, phosphorus, and other substances into the soil. Fungicides are sprayed on fields to kill fungi, herbicides to kill weeds, and pesticides to kill insects. There is growing concern that the chemicals used in enhancing food production levels may be contributing to the increase of cancer rates seen in industrialized countries over the last century. Similar arguments can also be made for human activities contributing to climate change.

    Regardless of whether or not one agrees that humans are contributing to global warming, or increasing cancer rates by our land management practices, there can be no debate that growing even a portion of our own produce allows us more control over what we eat. If one is comfortable applying pesticides to their tomatoes weekly then they can do so with a clear conscience, knowing precisely which and how much of each chemical they use. Concerned about eating genetically modified plants? Then don’t plant any hybrid seeds. If someone wants to grow a garden using 100% organic gardening practices they can do that too – the bottom line is being your own grower affords ultimate control over what you and your family eats.

    Social reasons – I alluded earlier to the fact that baby boomers are beginning to retire. Traditionally, seniors are among the most enthusiastic and active gardeners. For sheer numbers this demographic trend bodes well for garden clubs everywhere. But there is no reason gardening has to be the sole province of seniors. Sure, seniors tend to have more time to devote to the craft than most working adults, but people of all ages can gain a great deal of expertise and minimize their own failures by benefiting from the experience (read this as mistakes others have already made) and knowledge that garden clubs provide. In fact, I’ve never heard of any garden club offering anything less than an enthusiastic welcome for any younger folks that show an interest by attending.

    Garden clubs are one way of meeting new people, community gardens are another. What’s great about a community garden is that not only does one get to grow one’s own food alongside others within their community, but one also can grow social bonds too. Anyone who has ever visited or taken part in a community garden knows that they are great for breaking down social barriers. One tenet of New Urbanism is that back yard decks tend to promote privacy (and therefore discourage contact with neighbors) whereas front porches tend to increase visibility and exposure (and therefore encourage contact). This same holds true when one is tying up their tomatoes while a neighbor stands a few feet away watering their cabbages. What a great way to make new friends.

    Survival skills – this line of reasoning appeals to the survivalist-libertarian-black helicopter impulses lurking secretly and deeply within our selfish souls The ability to grow ones own food has gradually become less of a necessary survival skill over time as greater labor specialization and industrialization have taken place. Nowadays, other people grow all of our food. We get paid money for programming computers, repairing air conditioners, or constructing houses (oh, and planning viable communities!) and hand that money over to folks who grow and ship that food to us. Industrial agriculture is a much more efficient enterprise in terms of labor inputs than small scale agriculture or gardening, but all the necessary sophisticated machines and other technology have placed food production into the hands of relatively few people. What happens if the world’s oil supply is suddenly crippled or if war or some other civil disorder impairs the normal food distribution networks? Obviously, the people with the know-how to grow their own produce are in a better position than most to survive (so stock up on ammo, fresh water, and seeds today !)
    Okay, that's enough preaching - there's a bunch of other good reasons to start a garden but that'll serve as a start.

    So let’s get down to business – what do you want to plant this year (or in the case of otterpop – what delicacies do you plan to offer the deer this year?). Anyone looked at a seed catalogue yet or given it any thought?
    Last edited by Maister; 15 Jan 2008 at 12:45 PM. Reason: corrected grammar
    People will miss that it once meant something to be Southern or Midwestern. It doesn't mean much now, except for the climate. The question, “Where are you from?” doesn't lead to anything odd or interesting. They live somewhere near a Gap store, and what else do you need to know? - Garrison Keillor

  2. #2
    Cyburbian ofos's avatar
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    Thought I might plant some Sinsemilla this year but I can't seem to find it in the seed catalogues. That's a joke, son!

    Seriously, does anyone know of a variety of rhubarb that will survive the north Texas heat? Rhubarb pie and/or cobbler was a staple growing up in Michigan and we can rarely find it in stores in the Dallas area.
    “Death comes when memories of the past exceed the vision for the future.”

  3. #3
    Cyburbian jmac's avatar
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    Good timing, Maister! I just received a catalog from Baker Creek and plan to look through it this week. We may be moving this summer which will definitely affect the gardening, but I will still plan out the garden, just for fun.

    I hear there may be a new Cyburbian square foot gardener in the Lone Star state.

  4. #4
    Cyburbian
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    Garden time allready? We have broken the back of winter!!! Before you know it, baseball players will be reporting to spring training and the first robin will be spotted in town.

    I have been thinking of moving my garden around this year to give the girls a little more real estate in the backyard. This will put a good portion of the garden in morning shade from the garage. Any suggestions on what to plant in morning shade? Or should that make much difference?

  5. #5
    Cyburbian Plus Zoning Goddess's avatar
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    Ack, we're still getting freezing temps here in the FL panhandle. All I can say is I would like more herbs this year. We had cilantro this past summer, and RJ has rosemary out back, but I'd like to cultivate some more. Oh and maybe some green peppers, tomatoes are just a pain to grow in FL (bugs and other predators).

  6. #6
    Chairman of the bored Maister's avatar
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    Quote Originally posted by ofos View post
    does anyone know of a variety of rhubarb that will survive the north Texas heat? Rhubarb pie and/or cobbler was a staple growing up in Michigan and we can rarely find it in stores in the Dallas area.
    A little outside my normal area of expertise but I found this on the web about growing rhubarb in Texas. What the author describes sounds quite plausible/workable.
    People will miss that it once meant something to be Southern or Midwestern. It doesn't mean much now, except for the climate. The question, “Where are you from?” doesn't lead to anything odd or interesting. They live somewhere near a Gap store, and what else do you need to know? - Garrison Keillor

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    Cyburbian ofos's avatar
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    Quote Originally posted by Maister View post
    A little outside my normal area of expertise but I found this on the web about growing rhubarb in Texas. What the author describes sounds quite plausible/workable.
    Maister, you the man! I've been down here almost 24 years and never even guessed that it might be possible. Growing up in SW Michigan, we had a big patch of it and, of course, it was a perennial. Like lilacs, which we also had, rhubarb doesn't translate well to Texas heat. While wisteria is almost an adequate alternative for lilacs, I'm not aware of a rhubarb alternative.
    “Death comes when memories of the past exceed the vision for the future.”

  8. #8
    Cyburbian Flying Monkeys's avatar
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    This is my favorite thread…Last year this thread inspired me to start my first garden. It went well and the kids got involved and I was hooked. Now, this year I know what I want to plant (and what not to plant...pumpkins), I have expanded the garden areas and I am looking forward to spring…..

    I have become….a gardening dweeb.
    What’s in a name? – Your reputation….:)

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    maudit anglais
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    Mrs. Tranplanner and I will be experimenting with container gardening this year...we have no backyard to speak of, but four decks/porches.

    We do have access to a big veggie garden through some family in the area...will probably stick to the usual tomatoes, carrots, potatoes, and beans.

  10. #10
    Chairman of the bored Maister's avatar
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    Quote Originally posted by Tranplanner View post
    Mrs. Tranplanner and I will be experimenting with container gardening this year...we have no backyard to speak of, but four decks/porches.

    We do have access to a big veggie garden through some family in the area...will probably stick to the usual tomatoes, carrots, potatoes, and beans.
    How very North American of you! Did you realize all of your garden choices except carrots are native to the Americas?

    Quote Originally posted by savemattoon
    I have been thinking of moving my garden around this year to give the girls a little more real estate in the backyard. This will put a good portion of the garden in morning shade from the garage. Any suggestions on what to plant in morning shade? Or should that make much difference?
    How many hours of sunlight are we talking about? If we're only talking about losing 3 hours of direct sunlight, you could probably plant anything but corn and meet with success - if there's much more light loss than that you may wish to plant lots of lettuce, radishes, cabbage, or any other cool weather veggies you care to - most are pretty shade tolerant.
    Last edited by Maister; 15 Jan 2008 at 10:13 AM. Reason: answered savemattoons question
    People will miss that it once meant something to be Southern or Midwestern. It doesn't mean much now, except for the climate. The question, “Where are you from?” doesn't lead to anything odd or interesting. They live somewhere near a Gap store, and what else do you need to know? - Garrison Keillor

  11. #11
    maudit anglais
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    Quote Originally posted by Maister View post
    How very North American of you! Did you realize all of your garden choices except carrots are native to the Americas?
    It gets even better than that...we only plant heirloom varieties (cranberry beans, purple potatoes, lemon boy and zebra tomatoes).

  12. #12
    Chairman of the bored Maister's avatar
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    Quote Originally posted by Tranplanner View post
    It gets even better than that...we only plant heirloom varieties (cranberry beans, purple potatoes, lemon boy and zebra tomatoes).
    Just add green peppers and squash to the mix and you can pass yourself off as a True Americana gardening snob!
    People will miss that it once meant something to be Southern or Midwestern. It doesn't mean much now, except for the climate. The question, “Where are you from?” doesn't lead to anything odd or interesting. They live somewhere near a Gap store, and what else do you need to know? - Garrison Keillor

  13. #13
    Cyburbian Richi's avatar
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    Great Thread - ZG is right, tomatos are hard to grow in Florida, except for the cherry types. The plum types are not too bad as well. I get them in as early as possible and when it gets hot just pull 'em out.

    Right now I have 22 cabbage plants growing in a bed in my back yard. All but 6 are Savoy which are the best IMO, but do not ship/keep real well so are not often available in the store and are expensive when you find them. The other ones are red cabbage. I have several collard plants stuck within the cabbages. This would be a problem if I didn't puck the leaves that start to shade the cabbage. One can get collards all winter long here and well north into Ga. I plan to have slaw from a couple of plants this week-end with barbeque.

    I have almost finished another bed and hope to get it done this weekend. In the clay my bark yard is composed of I found that it is best to just dig it out and fill the holew/ compost. I just put a barrier around the edge (long fiberglass strip for the existing bed and I'm trying a recycled plastic strip this time. Both from Lows.) This keeps the lawn from intrudinto the bed. Don't use the type that clop together or grass will find a way through the cracks.

    Anyone have any experence in growing parsley in the North Florida area?

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    Cyburbian zman's avatar
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    The last paragraph of the essay, really "spoke" to me, Maister.

    This is, for me too, a timely thread. Actually, I was going to PM you yesterday, Maister, and ask when you were going to start this thread.

    With the wedding last summer, Ms. Plan and I did not do much in the garden. Our cilantro came back and so did one basil plant, so we utilized those for a couple months (to have fresh basil anytime is a must in my kitchen).

    Anyways, this year, I was thinking of building a second, smaller bed for herbs leaving my large bed for just veggies. My theme will be salad and salsa and I plan on trying:
    -Lettuce,
    -Tomatoes (roma),
    -Onions
    -Carrots (small amount, I had too many 2 years ago)
    -Bell Peppers and Hot Hungarian (sorta like the grower) Peppers too.

    For the herbs:
    -Basil
    -Cilantro
    -Mint
    -Oregano
    -Rosemary
    -Parsley

    Maybe some others too, but I will have to research more specifics later.

    My wife and I were also thinking (more along the lines of knowing from where your food comes) about committing to some crop and beef shares in the area. Many farms will alow for you to invest in a whole, half or quarter cow (provided you have the freezer space come slaughter) and a local farm will enroll you in share program where you can pick up weekly baskets for fresh in season vegetables.

    For once, I am looking forward to summer!! and to growing my own food, so the Man and his Black Choppers can't get to me.
    You get all squeezed up inside/Like the days were carved in stone/You get all wired up inside/And it's bad to be alone

    You can go out, you can take a ride/And when you get out on your own/You get all smoothed out inside/And it's good to be alone
    -Peart

  15. #15
    Cyburbian Plus Salmissra's avatar
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    Quote Originally posted by jmac View post
    Good timing, Maister! I just received a catalog from Baker Creek and plan to look through it this week. We may be moving this summer which will definitely affect the gardening, but I will still plan out the garden, just for fun.

    I hear there may be a new Cyburbian square foot gardener in the Lone Star state.
    Yes, there is! I plan on trying it out this year. Last year I concentrated on the front of the house. Since there was just grass from the sidewalk to the house, I forced my hubby to decide on some shrubs, layout the beds, etc. around the house. The rest - choosing flowering plants, planting, watering, weeding - I did myself. Most of the plants I chose did rather well - once the rain stopped this past spring! (I'd chosen a bunch of heat/drought tolerant plants, since the front beds get direct sunlight for about 8 hours a day) I'm hoping a couple of them will come back. The annuals that died were pulled, but I left a few things that I thought might make it. And the pansies look great!

    So, since the front won't require quite as much work (I'll still have to plant, weed, water, but I don't have to design and plan), I'm going to start some work in the back. I'm thinking of expanding the little corner garden the previous owners put in. Right now it just has heather and pansies in it, but I'll add some other perennials and it'll really pop. There's a spot directly off the porch that would work for the square-foot gardening experiment. I'm thinking of trying some herbs - never done that before - and maybe some peppers.

    Side note: Any other Texas/way south gardeners try Mexican dwarf petunias? I'm thinking they'd be great in a part of the yard, but there are so many options, I thought I'd see if I could get any recommendations (or warnings).
    "We do not need any other Tutankhamun's tomb with all its treasures. We need context. We need understanding. We need knowledge of historical events to tie them together. We don't know much. Of course we know a lot, but it is context that's missing, not treasures." - Werner Herzog, in Archaeology, March/April 2011

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    Cyburbian btrage's avatar
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    Although I'm not ready to take the plunge and dig up some of my beautifully manicurred lawn for a garden , I am interested in vegetables, etc. that would be good for growing in pots. I know many people grow tomatoes this way, but I'm curious as to other types of plants/vegetables that can be done in this manner.

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    Super Moderator kjel's avatar
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    Ahhhh.....you guys are making me envious with your plans! For the people interested in growing veggies in containers I have grown bush beans, broccoli, cabbage, carrots, cucumbers, eggplant, lettuce, green onions, small squash, and tomatoes with pretty decent outcomes in the past. Also I have grown strawberries, all sorts of flowers, roses, bulbs, hydrangeas, and herbs in pots as well. Key thing is to pay attention to how the selected varieties of veggies grow, matching them with the appropriate pot size, soil is important-I found that using bagged potting soil with some planting compost mixed in (about 3:1) works well, adequate drainage, keeping the soil moist but not soaked, and resisting the urge to over fertilize all make for successful growing. I am looking forward to having a place to put out containers or a little plot to grow something in.
    "He defended the cause of the poor and needy, and so all went well. Is that not what it means to know me?" Jeremiah 22:16

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    Cyburbian ruralplanner's avatar
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    Quote Originally posted by btrage View post
    Although I'm not ready to take the plunge and dig up some of my beautifully manicurred lawn for a garden , I am interested in vegetables, etc. that would be good for growing in pots. I know many people grow tomatoes this way, but I'm curious as to other types of plants/vegetables that can be done in this manner.

    I would highly recomend Kale or Chard in containers for ease of growing them in containers and they can double as an attractive addition to any deck or patio or manicured lawn. Recipe wise you may need to get a bit creative, though. I'd recommend the Red Russian variety of kale. It's got large green leaves with dark burgandy accents. For chard, you can go for green or get multicolerd types with (red, yellow orange etc.). The best part is that you can keep picking and it'll keep growing. As for Kale, depending on your climes, you can get the stuff to grow even if temps drop below freezing at night. In fact, it grows better and faster when it cools off.

  19. #19
    Chairman of the bored Maister's avatar
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    Quote Originally posted by Richi View post
    Anyone have any experence in growing parsley in the North Florida area?
    Well I don't live in north Florida, but have heard/read from a number of different sources that it's a plant that does quite well in that area. Parsley is a fairly forgiving plant and does reasonably well in broad range of soils and climate conditions. In your neck of the woods you'll be growing it as a winter annual. This means you'll plant it some time in September and can continue to grow it until May - it's possible to even stretch the season longer than that if you provide shade screens and plenty of water. Parlsey can be tricky at times to start from seed so I recommend starting the seeds indoors first. Plant a couple seeds about a quarter inch deep in some good (moist not drenched) seed starter soil. Once the seed has sprouted put the plant near a sunny window and after about eight weeks you can set outside in a shaded area for a few hours a day for a week or so to get used to the outdoors. Then transplant....feel free to start harvesting leaves as soon as the plant looks like it can afford to spare a few.

    Quote Originally posted by btrage
    Although I'm not ready to take the plunge and dig up some of my beautifully manicurred lawn for a garden , I am interested in vegetables, etc. that would be good for growing in pots. I know many people grow tomatoes this way, but I'm curious as to other types of plants/vegetables that can be done in this manner.
    I'll second what ruralplanner said about kale and chard ,and add that you can grow virtually anything in a container garden. Back in my apartment dwelling days I grew some absolutely strange things almost never seen grown in containers - plants like corn, zucchini, and even barley once! A plant which practically grows itself which I strongly recommend to any new vegetable gardener is radishes. They take up very little space (plant them 3" apart), don't require deep pots (6" deep containers work fine), are virtually immune to all known diseases and pests, and the best part of all is they are usually ready to harvest a mere 30-35 days after planting!
    Last edited by Maister; 15 Jan 2008 at 1:25 PM.
    People will miss that it once meant something to be Southern or Midwestern. It doesn't mean much now, except for the climate. The question, “Where are you from?” doesn't lead to anything odd or interesting. They live somewhere near a Gap store, and what else do you need to know? - Garrison Keillor

  20. #20
    Cyburbian Cardinal's avatar
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    We are looking at buying another house in the next couple of months. (This one would not be 1000 miles away from where we are currently living.) If all goes well, I will be converting a half acre into woodland, prairie, rose, perennial, and vegetable gardens.
    Anyone want to adopt a dog?

  21. #21
    Cyburbian
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    Quote Originally posted by Maister View post
    How many hours of sunlight are we talking about? If we're only talking about losing 3 hours of direct sunlight, you could probably plant anything but corn and meet with success - if there's much more light loss than that you may wish to plant lots of lettuce, radishes, cabbage, or any other cool weather veggies you care to - most are pretty shade tolerant.
    That is where I was leaning. I don't plant corn because you need more room than I have yard to get a decent crop. If i do reconfigure, I will have to plant the tomatoes and peppers in the same spot as last year. I usually try to move them around a little.

  22. #22
    Chairman of the bored Maister's avatar
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    Haridiness Zone Maps

    For reference, here's a hardiness zone map. Below it are the first and last frost dates for each zone. More detailed/specific maps are available many places online, but this one should serve our purposes here on Cyburbia.

    What zone do YOU live in?



    Zone 1
    Average dates Last Frost = 1 Jun / 30 Jun
    Average dates First Frost = 1 Jul / 31 Jul Note: Vulnerable to frost 365 days per year
    Zone 2
    Average dates Last Frost = 1 May / 31 May
    Average dates First Frost = 1 Aug / 31 Aug
    Zone 3
    Average dates Last Frost = 1 May / 31 May
    Average dates First Frost = 1 Sep / 30 Sep
    Zone 4
    Average dates Last Frost = 1 May / 30 May
    Average dates First Frost = 1 Sep / 30 Sep
    Zone 5
    Average dates Last Frost = 30 Mar / 30 Apr
    Average dates First Frost = 30 Sep / 30 Oct
    Zone 6
    Average dates Last Frost = 30 Mar / 30 Apr
    Average dates First Frost = 30 Sep / 30 Oct
    Zone 7
    Average dates Last Frost = 30 Mar / 30 Apr
    Average dates First Frost = 30 Sep / 30 Oct
    Zone 8
    Average dates Last Frost = 28 Feb / 30 Mar
    Average dates First Frost = 30 Oct / 30 Nov
    Zone 9
    Average dates Last Frost = 30 Jan / 28 Feb
    Average dates First Frost = 30 Nov / 30 Dec
    Zone 10
    Average dates Last Frost = 30 Jan or before
    Average dates First Frost = 30 Nov / 30 Dec
    Zone 11
    Free of Frost throughout the year.
    People will miss that it once meant something to be Southern or Midwestern. It doesn't mean much now, except for the climate. The question, “Where are you from?” doesn't lead to anything odd or interesting. They live somewhere near a Gap store, and what else do you need to know? - Garrison Keillor

  23. #23
    Cyburbian Richi's avatar
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    Thanks Maister. I ment parsnips those white "carrots" the Brits have contests to see who can grow the longest roots. My expermits with carrots here produced roots that really did not taste all that wonderful and I planted two types. Not very sweet. Anyone have any idea what I did wrong?

  24. #24
    Chairman of the bored Maister's avatar
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    A few garden questions still linger from 2007:

    Did otterpop lose his garden to deer?
    Is mendelman going to do a stealth garden again this year? (not unlike the Soviets engaging in a secret lunar program to avoid the bad publicity associated with failure! )
    Did ssc ever attempt the lasagna garden?
    Did savemattoon ever manage to grow enough hot peppers to enjoy a second week’s worth of harvest.
    Is Twin Palms Vineyards still Florida’s premier winery (and are both vines still alive)?

    But on to 2008…..
    I’ve made some decisions about what to plant this year. We were going to try doing a 100 mile diet (for a year eat only foods grown within a 100 mile radius) but decided at the last minute to hold off until next year on that stunt for a variety of reasons. As practice for next year, though, I am going to put more energy than usual into focusing this year’s garden around producing the highest volume possible. I intend to plant crops that will provide the highest yields of food in small areas. That means I will be going into tomatoes this year big time. I will be going into green beans in a big way as well. I intend to be able to can at least a 90 day supply of both vegetables. As usual I will also be planting some lettuce, radishes, peppers, maybe a couple cucumbers for salads again. I intend to plant onions from starter bulbs again but this year propose to plant them the same time I plant the peas (St. Patrick’s Day) and will see if my onions get even LARGER this year by summer solstice.

    Anyone have suggestions on the highest yielding tomatoes?
    People will miss that it once meant something to be Southern or Midwestern. It doesn't mean much now, except for the climate. The question, “Where are you from?” doesn't lead to anything odd or interesting. They live somewhere near a Gap store, and what else do you need to know? - Garrison Keillor

  25. #25
    maudit anglais
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    Quote Originally posted by Maister View post
    We were going to try doing a 100 mile diet (for a year eat only foods grown within a 100 mile radius) but decided at the last minute to hold off until next year on that stunt for a variety of reasons.
    We were contemplating this idea as well, but now that we have no real garden to speak of I can't see it happening. We are lucky to have a very good "urban" farm network, with options for weekly home delivery, food shares, pick-your-own, and farmers' markets. We're going to see how well we can do. Would definitely be interesting to form a cyburbia support group if there are others out there interested as well.

    Anyone have suggestions on the highest yielding tomatoes?
    Our little cherry tomato plants just keep on giving and seem to be able to last longer into the season than regular tomato plants.

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