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Thread: Reflections on the South / Appalachia

  1. #26
    Cyburbian Luca's avatar
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    I hear you guys on those posts but:

    1) Do the locals believe that upping the highway size from 1 to 3 lanes, when 1 lane is not overly busy, brings jobs? Really? Can they be educated otherwise?

    2) Presumably you can still have the Wal-Mart but insist on a more sensitive design in terms of huge unshaded/impervious lots, etc. Big box design etc.

    3) One way to get some bidness is to get Wal-Mart in. Another way is to be picturesque, which would people rather have?
    Life and death of great pattern languages

  2. #27
    Cyburbian tsc's avatar
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    As a undeniably proud Yankee..born in NYC and lived in NYS all my life (oh,,except for a 1 year stint in Jersey!). I take no offense to those in the South who may consider it a slur. I must admit I don't understand some Southern ways and know I could never live in the south..or the midwest or west for that matter...but it is what it is. We are different, but I think we have common ground as well. Development can be hard to swallow if it overwhelms the natural environement,,,no matter where you are. If you are native to an area, you get used to the ugly...and can see beyond it.

    SP, I would like to hear your thoughts on the area after spending some more time there.
    "Yeehaw!" is not a foreign policy

    Renovating the '62 Metzendorf
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  3. #28
    Cyburbian Bubba's avatar
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    Quote Originally posted by Luca View post
    1) Do the locals believe that upping the highway size from 1 to 3 lanes, when 1 lane is not overly busy, brings jobs? Really? Can they be educated otherwise?
    I'll address this one point...

    Do the locals believe that? Probably not. Does the State of Georgia believe it, and act on it as official policy? Yes. There's a program in Georgia called GRIP - the Governor's Road Improvement Program - that's widening all of these rural highways out to four lanes as "economic development highways."

    Link: http://www.dot.state.ga.us/DOT/preco...yFactSheet.pdf
    I found you a new motto from a sign hanging on their wall…"Drink coffee: do stupid things faster and with more energy"

  4. #29
    Cyburbian Jen's avatar
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    Quote Originally posted by Big Owl View post
    to echo what others have said and i think it is true of rural America, but when the last thing built was the piggly wiggly in the 1970s people want something different, something new. So the prospects of a bigbox and the 100 to 200 jobs looks good and fills out a politicians list of accomplishments. Design is a back burner issues as often is the environment and other issues and seen as something that will hinder growth. Growth for the sake of growth is a good thing in some cases.

    plus what else are you going to do on a friday night, but cruise the parking lot of the local wally world.
    couldnt have said it better

    I drove through the south for the holidays. And those interstate states have my sympathy, what a crush of traffic pouring through each and every day 24/7!

    I too was struck by the mammoth sized billboards, in which state?must've been Georgia. Some of those must piggyback satellite, weatehr or comesuch technology too for income generation? But the highways we took were in great shape, upgrades on the reststations too. I particualry liked the presence in the mountains of travelers asistance trucks, saw those in WVirginia, North Carolina too.

    All I know is there are A LOT of PEOPLE in the southern states, Bradenton FLa was the most sprawliest place we stayed. Hardly annyone recycled that Ii saw anywhere on any part of our trip. Oh at Moat Aqaurium (COOL PLACE) in Sarasota I saw recycle bins.

    The State and National Parks are gems, though.I know the real Florida is preserved in our state parks.

  5. #30
    Cyburbia Administrator Dan's avatar
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    Quote Originally posted by Jen View post
    I too was struck by the mammoth sized billboards, in which state?must've been Georgia.
    Georgia is absolutely sick with billboards. When I last drove down I-75 through the entire state, it was lined solid with massive double-decker billboards, from Valdosta through Dalton, with only a coupe of breaks around Atlanta. The signs are probably the major reason why I would never live in Georgia; the visual pollution was overwhelming and disgusting. South Carolina wasn't much better.

    Meanwhile, on my 27 mile backcommute to work, from one Cleveland suburb to another, which involves Interstate, state and local roads, I don't pass by a single billboard. None. A alternative route will slip me past two or three old 24-sheet signs in an industrial district.

  6. #31
    Cyburbian Bubba's avatar
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    Quote Originally posted by Dan View post
    Georgia is absolutely sick with billboards. When I last drove down I-75 through the entire state, it was lined solid with massive double-decker billboards, from Valdosta through Dalton, with only a coupe of breaks around Atlanta.
    Blame Ted Turner. Seriously. The roots of his fortune are in Turner Advertising - check out the bottom of the billboards the next time you're cruising I-75...it seems like the majority of them carry the "Turner" logo. The industry also has a very powerful lobby in Georgia. But, if you live here long enough, they just blend into the background.


    Quote Originally posted by Dan View post
    The signs are probably the major reason why I would never live in Georgia; the visual pollution was overwhelming and disgusting.
    Yawn.
    I found you a new motto from a sign hanging on their wall…"Drink coffee: do stupid things faster and with more energy"

  7. #32
    Cyburbian hilldweller's avatar
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    Billboards

    Billboards are a recurring source of cash for local governments and are often seen by city administrators and politicians as a no-brainer. However, billboards can generate strong opposition from Planning Boards and residents/taxpayers.

    These competing views of billboards collided in dramatic fashion in Port St. Lucie, FL, and planners got caught in the middle.

    http://www.scenicflorida.org/pubs/newsfl122099psl.html

    http://www.scenicflorida.org/newsletter/sw20070516.html

  8. #33
    Cyburbian
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    I've always thought the billboards on I75, which are worse (more offensive to the eyes) in southern Georgia, were the result of people thinking "Gee, all the people driving down to Florida from the north for Spring Break/family vacations/etc. will see whatever crap we put up here and want to buy our ---." And I75 is the ugliest Interstate I've been on, specifically the chunk south of Atlanta downward. North of Atlanta and around the city I think it's pretty. I've had some time to observe this while parked on it in traffic. However, if you get off the interstate, Georgia actually is not covered in billboards. It's crazy, I know.

  9. #34
    Cyburbian tsc's avatar
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    Billboards are not permitted along NYS highways...any left are grandfathered...or are very far off the highway. I think they really degrade the landscape....no matter how boring the NYS thruway can get between Albany and Buffalo...
    "Yeehaw!" is not a foreign policy

    Renovating the '62 Metzendorf
    http://metzendorf.blogspot.com/

  10. #35
    Cyburbian Plus PlannerGirl's avatar
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    Oh come on we all love the "South of the Border" billboards cos Pedro sez we do
    "They who can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety, deserve neither liberty nor safety." Ben Franklin

    Remember this motto to live by: "Life should NOT be a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in an attractive well preserved body, but rather to skid in sideways, chocolate in one hand, martini in the other, body thoroughly used up, totally worn out and screaming 'WOO- HOO what a ride!'"

  11. #36
    'nuff said
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  12. #37
    Cyburbian graciela's avatar
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    This may be a ten year old picture, but there are even more "we bare all" billboards on I-75 now than there were then. I think they have opened an establishment in NE Ga off I-85 so it has some signs for "we bare all" too.
    Responsible Beverage Server since March 26th, 2008

  13. #38
    Cyburbian sisterceleste's avatar
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    Quote Originally posted by Zoning Goddess View post
    OK. I am reactionary, I admit it. And yes, Yankee is a big-time slur in the south. But I only normally go ballistic when there has been an odd anti-south post. Like Wal-Mart dosn't have the same effect here as anywhere else? And that user had also said he's going away before for some other reason? But if it makes you feel better, I'll go away.
    I'm with ZG here...stop knocking the south. I love it here and would not live any where else.
    You darn tootin', I like fig newtons!

  14. #39
    The South is a little different, as much as you might not want to admit it. I live in Florida (after years of swearing I never would) now I can't imagine leaving. Funny what a great job will do for ya. Enough cosmopolitan and enough wild wild west to keep me interested.

  15. #40
    Super Moderator luckless pedestrian's avatar
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    so this is not a good spot to tell my Arkansa story?...

    OT: I think it's fascinating that after all these years after the Civil War, there is really a difference between north and south - and I'm into saying as a slur or to take offense at anyone - just step out of this thread and read it through again, it's great stuff -

    but on a funnier note: ZG and other Floridians - I am really sorry all of our Maine folk are there bugging you all right now but I have to say, I really enjoy the quiet of having them GONE!

    but I think ofoshit the point on the head:

    The North hides most of it's poverty in big cities, the South leaves it out in the rural open
    in my prsonal and business travels north south and west (I'm east coast), I would say this is right on the money - also other comments that much of rural America sees this type of Wally-izing as part of their "re-development" as farms give way to subdivisions - $^&* happens...

  16. #41
    Cyburbian ofos's avatar
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    Quote Originally posted by luckless pedestrian View post
    but I think ofoshit the point on the head:
    I appreciate the support but I would have appreciated a space after my name even more. RJ is bound to pick up on that so I thought I'd better get to it first.
    “Death comes when memories of the past exceed the vision for the future.”

  17. #42
    Cyburbian CJC's avatar
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    Quote Originally posted by sisterceleste View post
    I'm with ZG here...stop knocking the south. I love it here and would not live any where else.
    I think that every place loves to knock every other place. I have relatives in the south (Mississippi, Alabama, and Louisiana) and they (and their friends) never pass up a time to knock California and San Francisco in particular. It doesn't particularly bother me - I know that where I live has problems and occasionally just sounds ridiculous on the national level - I don't care. I've generally found that southerners and midwesterners get more defensive about knocks against them - not sure why. Anybody have ideas?

  18. #43
    Cyburbian Richmond Jake's avatar
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    Quote Originally posted by luckless pedestrian View post
    ..... ofoshit ...
    A new Cyburbianism is born. Which reminds me of a story...

    Off-topic:
    After staff arrived in the office this morning, several assembled in the conference room not far from my office. They began to engage in some ofoshit. I approached them and asked them to refrain from the ofoshit.

    One responded, "We don't have a definition of ofoshit and there are no policies in the personnel manual regulating ofoshit in the office."

    So I called over to HR and asked, "Do we have a definition of ofoshit and are there policies regarding ofoshit in the office?"

    "No RJ, we have no definition of ofoshit and no policies addressing ofoshit. Each office is expected to develop their own policies concerning ofoshit."

    Looks like I have a task to complete, and soon, regarding ofoshit in our office.

    Perhaps this a topic for a new thread: How do you deal with ofoshit in your office?
    Annoyingly insensitive

  19. #44
    Cyburbian hilldweller's avatar
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    Quote Originally posted by CJC View post
    I've generally found that southerners and midwesterners get more defensive about knocks against them - not sure why. Anybody have ideas?
    As for the south, maybe there is still a victim mentality stemming from the civil war/reconstruction era? Midwesterners? I don't know.

    Northeasterners don't particularly care what anybody else thinks about them or their respective regions (except when it comes to the inter-regional Boston-NYC rivalry, which is basically about red sox vs.yankees). I don't even think we take the yankee slur personally in the south. Southern culture is something we really want no part of anyway, and I don't say this to denigrate it. What I mean is that you generally don't see northeasterners in the south enjoying things like nascar, barbeque, and evangelicalism. I'm making generalizations here of course..
    Last edited by hilldweller; 24 Jan 2008 at 9:58 PM. Reason: grmr

  20. #45
    Cyburbian ofos's avatar
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    Quote Originally posted by RichmondJake View post
    Off-topic:
    How do you deal with ofoshit in your office?
    ofoshit is not a problem in my office. We have had to prohibit anyone giving RJobs during working hours. Maybe that's a topic for another thread as well.
    “Death comes when memories of the past exceed the vision for the future.”

  21. #46
    Cyburbian KSharpe's avatar
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    Quote Originally posted by CJC View post
    I think that every place loves to knock every other place. I have relatives in the south (Mississippi, Alabama, and Louisiana) and they (and their friends) never pass up a time to knock California and San Francisco in particular. It doesn't particularly bother me - I know that where I live has problems and occasionally just sounds ridiculous on the national level - I don't care. I've generally found that southerners and midwesterners get more defensive about knocks against them - not sure why. Anybody have ideas?
    I think we (I'm a midwesterner) as a group often feel looked down on by the supposedly more sophisticated east and west coast people.And those are the only people represented in the media (or at least, it sometimes feels that way). I think its important to remember that, of course, there are walking stereotypes everywhere, but there are also smart and sensitive people everywhere as well.
    Do you want to pet my monkey?

  22. #47
    Cyburbian Zoning Goddess's avatar
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    Quote Originally posted by hilldweller View post
    What I mean is that you generally don't see northeasterners in the south enjoying things like nascar, barbeque, and evangelicalism. I'm making generalizations here of course..
    I'm a native and I don't enjoy nascar and evangelicalism (is that even a word?). I do like BBQ. We are not all Baptist stepfords mourning for Dale. Sheesh. That's like saying everyone from NY thinks "The Nanny" is the best t.v. program ever, and all of them drink egg creams (I read that in a book once, but I have no clue what an egg cream is, but hey I can generalize, too...).

  23. #48
    Cyburbian boiker's avatar
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    Quote Originally posted by Luca View post
    I hear you guys on those posts but:

    1) Do the locals believe that upping the highway size from 1 to 3 lanes, when 1 lane is not overly busy, brings jobs? Really? Can they be educated otherwise?

    2) Presumably you can still have the Wal-Mart but insist on a more sensitive design in terms of huge unshaded/impervious lots, etc. Big box design etc.

    3) One way to get some bidness is to get Wal-Mart in. Another way is to be picturesque, which would people rather have?
    Actually, easy answers here:

    1) yes. and no, they are not convinced a 1 lane road is adequate.

    2) No, any request for design is taken as a sign that you are against development, against tax dollars.

    3) Wal-Mart is a quick fix that everyone else has done, so why not us!?
    Dude, I'm cheesing so hard right now.

  24. #49
    Super Moderator luckless pedestrian's avatar
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    no one wants to hear my Arkansas story?

    Quote Originally posted by hilldweller View post
    Northeasterners don't particularly care what anybody else thinks about them or their respective regions (except when it comes to the inter-regional Boston-NYC rivalry, which is basically about red sox vs.yankees). I don't even think we take the yankee slur personally in the south. Southern culture is something we really want no part of anyway, and I don't say this to denigrate it. What I mean is that you generally don't see northeasterners in the south enjoying things like nascar, barbeque, and evangelicalism. I'm making generalizations here of course..
    when someone calls me a Yankee, I am offended and I say "hell no, I'm a Red Sox fan!" - so yeah that term has not the same slur meaning that someone might think

    and I disagree on NASCAR, if I see one more NASCAR bumper sticker, hat or other paraphernalia here in Maine, ouch - I am a Formula One gal myself...

    I will say that one of my closest friends up here in Maine grew up in South Carolina in a rural town and they have absolutely the BEST accent ever - it's as smooth as silk - but yes, it's still foreign to me growing up in CNY and then moving to New England...

  25. #50
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    The way the land is developed is always based primarily on economics. The downtown and the Wal-Mart can coexist, and both have their place, if that is what the community desires. Sometimes Wal-Mart is better than what was there before. In my hometown area in PA, the Wal-Mart and surrounding strip-mall was built in a mud pit. No not a wetland..a mud pit. Maybe it was a mine, or a topsoil farm/dump at some point, but it was ugly. Tom Hylton, the local planning advocate says that its the only Wal-Mart that he knows of that is actually an improvement on what was there before. He actually helped write the new zoning code for Pottstown, and has come up with good ideas to bring back the downtown. (He had a good article in the Feb. '07 Planning.)

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