Urban planning community

+ Reply to thread
Results 1 to 15 of 15

Thread: Conditional rezoning or conditional subdivision

  1. #1
    Cyburbian Tide's avatar
    Registered
    Oct 2005
    Location
    The Gig City
    Posts
    2,639

    Conditional rezoning or conditional subdivision

    Does anyone here do a conditional subdivision which would be conditioned on the applicant getting their rezoning approved through Planning and County Council?

    The problem(s) we have here is zoning is done on a parcel by parcel basis. If a land owner has two lots of different zones and wants to combine or subdivide and rezone part or whole we make them subdivide first then rezone. The question is does anyone require a concurrent subdivision application and rezoning application and approve the subdivision only upon approval of the rezoning? The thought is that if the rezoning were denied you would be left with a dual zoned lot which we try to avoid at all costs.

    If you have examples of procedure please pass them along, thanks.
    @GigCityPlanner

  2. #2
    Forums Administrator & Gallery Moderator NHPlanner's avatar
    Registered
    Apr 1996
    Location
    New Hampshire
    Posts
    7,540
    We would grant conditional approval of the subdivision, with a precedent condition on the rezoning. In that case if the rezoning failed, the conditional approval would be invalid.

    (In NH, all precedent conditions of approval for site plans and subdivisions must be met before a final approval and recording of plans can take place.)
    "Growth is inevitable and desirable, but destruction of community character is not. The question is not whether your part of the world is going to change. The question is how." -- Edward T. McMahon, The Conservation Fund

  3. #3
    NIMBY asshatterer Plus Richmond Jake's avatar
    Registered
    Aug 2001
    Location
    Jukin' City
    Posts
    16,382
    I view this as putting the cart before the horse. I've heard of it and never like it.
    How do you make a finding the subdivision is consistent with the zoning ordinance? Maybe it reads something like this:

    The proposed subdivision is consistent with the "R-X" zone district in that the lots comply with the minimum dimensional standards in Table 2-A, uses will be limited to those allowed by the...blah...blah...blah...subject to a subsequent rezoning of the property to the "R-X" zone district.
    RJ is the KING of . The One

  4. #4
    Forums Administrator & Gallery Moderator NHPlanner's avatar
    Registered
    Apr 1996
    Location
    New Hampshire
    Posts
    7,540
    Quote Originally posted by RichmondJake View post
    I view this as putting the cart before the horse. I've heard of it and never like it.
    How do you make a finding the subdivision is consistent with the zoning ordinance? Maybe it reads something like this:

    The proposed subdivision is consistent with the "R-X" zone district in that the lots comply with the minimum dimensional standards in Table 2-A, uses will be limited to those allowed by the...blah...blah...blah...subject to a subsequent rezoning of the property to the "R-X" zone district.
    RJ -

    The only time we've done it is if the applicant has already had a public hearing on the rezoning with the Planning Board, and the Board has supported it, and made such recommendation to the Town Council. The Board has, in effect, found the rezoning consistent with the Master Plan...and in turn is comfortable with the conditional approval on the subdivision, knowing that the Council will act shortly on the rezoning.
    "Growth is inevitable and desirable, but destruction of community character is not. The question is not whether your part of the world is going to change. The question is how." -- Edward T. McMahon, The Conservation Fund

  5. #5
    Cyburbian Tide's avatar
    Registered
    Oct 2005
    Location
    The Gig City
    Posts
    2,639
    Quote Originally posted by RichmondJake View post
    I view this as putting the cart before the horse. I've heard of it and never like it.
    How do you make a finding the subdivision is consistent with the zoning ordinance? Maybe it reads something like this:[/I]
    These are never large scale residential subdivisions but usually 2 or 3 lot subdivisions or strictly lot lines being moved. But we are hesitant to approve it prior to the rezoning but "that's how it's always been done" and it makes it really sloppy. I'm just trying to get a handle on making it more consistent and then if a rezoning app. gets denied you don't have a dual zoned residential/industrial piece of property.

    I am also trying to make this one step. If your rezoning goes through your subdivision has already been approved to meet the minimums and has all the requirements set forth in the subdivision ord. for platting.
    @GigCityPlanner

  6. #6
    Cyburbian Seabishop's avatar
    Registered
    Nov 2002
    Location
    USA
    Posts
    3,645
    I've never heard of it being done in the 2 states I've worked in.

  7. #7
    Cyburbian hilldweller's avatar
    Registered
    Jan 2005
    Location
    Land of Confusion
    Posts
    3,736
    I think that requiring that the property get rezoned first would avoid this problem. This is how we handled it in my previous position.

  8. #8
    Unfrozen Caveman Planner mendelman's avatar
    Registered
    May 2003
    Location
    Staff meeting
    Posts
    8,108
    We would just take it as one proposal with mulitple actions. If we didn't like the subdivision and/or the rezoning, it would just be denied. No problem of confusion.

    Granted, a rezoning and subdivision are reviewed by the same commission here, so it is easier.
    I'm sorry. Is my bias showing?

    Let's not be didactic in this profession, because that is a path to disillusion and irrelevancy.

    Six seasons and a movie!

  9. #9
    Cyburbian Tide's avatar
    Registered
    Oct 2005
    Location
    The Gig City
    Posts
    2,639
    Quote Originally posted by hilldweller View post
    I think that requiring that the property get rezoned first would avoid this problem. This is how we handled it in my previous position.
    This is what we're trying to avoid. Most of the time one or more of the lots to be added do not meet any minimum requirements (size or width) and could not be a stand alone commercial or industrial lot, but when combined could. Also, if given a nonconforming zoning prior to subdivision how is there any assurance that said property does not get conveyed or disposed of?
    @GigCityPlanner

  10. #10
    NIMBY asshatterer Plus Richmond Jake's avatar
    Registered
    Aug 2001
    Location
    Jukin' City
    Posts
    16,382
    Quote Originally posted by Tide View post
    ....[snip].... But we are hesitant to approve it prior to the rezoning but "that's how it's always been done" and it makes it really sloppy...[snip].....
    Now there's a pet peeve of mine. Just because "that's how it's always been done" does not make it right. (Emphasis mine.)

    Quote Originally posted by Tide View post
    This is what we're trying to avoid. Most of the time one or more of the lots to be added do not meet any minimum requirements (size or width) and could not be a stand alone commercial or industrial lot, but when combined could. Also, if given a nonconforming zoning prior to subdivision how is there any assurance that said property does not get conveyed or disposed of?
    Help me out here, what's "nonconforming zoning"? Do you mean inconsistent zoning with the Comp Plan? Now that I re-read your last sentence, I don't understand and I'm confused. (Emphasis mine.)
    I'm gonna make a blanket statement: land use and zoning should be in place before an entitlement is granted.

    I'm done.
    RJ is the KING of . The One

  11. #11
    Cyburbian hilldweller's avatar
    Registered
    Jan 2005
    Location
    Land of Confusion
    Posts
    3,736
    Quote Originally posted by Tide View post
    This is what we're trying to avoid. Most of the time one or more of the lots to be added do not meet any minimum requirements (size or width) and could not be a stand alone commercial or industrial lot, but when combined could. Also, if given a nonconforming zoning prior to subdivision how is there any assurance that said property does not get conveyed or disposed of?
    Well, my thought is that the applicant would be required to have enough contiguous parcels to comply with the zoning requirements while not creating any potential non-conforming parcels. Then, prior to obtaining site plan approval, the applicant would be required to subdivide.

    I wouldn't worry about non-conforming properties getting split off, as a decent code should prevent this from happening.

  12. #12
    Cyburbian Tide's avatar
    Registered
    Oct 2005
    Location
    The Gig City
    Posts
    2,639
    Quote Originally posted by RichmondJake View post

    Help me out here, what's "nonconforming zoning"? Do you mean inconsistent zoning with the Comp Plan? Now that I re-read your last sentence, I don't understand and I'm confused. (Emphasis mine.)
    I'm gonna make a blanket statement: land use and zoning should be in place before an entitlement is granted.

    I'm done.
    Non conforming in the size requiremet. For instance light indistrial requires minimum 2 acre lot. Applicant has 10 acres and an outparcel zoned R1 of only 1/3 acre. Wants to rezone 1/3 acre to LI and combine into one parcel. But again, the zoning is on a parcel basis and that's not going to change any time soon. What I want to do is condition the subdivision on completeling the rezoning but having the subdivision ready to file so there doesn't exist a 1/3 acre LI lot.

    To Hilldweler: If we had a stricter site plan review that could be possible but I still don't like it since lots can be conveed and then someone with an undersized lot bought a "junk lot"
    @GigCityPlanner

  13. #13
    Cyburbian CDT's avatar
    Registered
    Mar 2005
    Location
    Midwest
    Posts
    183
    In my current city we require the final plat and change of zone to be heard at the same CC meeting. The preliminary plat and first reading of the change of zone go to CC at the same time. Then the last reading of the change of zone waits for the final plat.

    At the last city I worked you could rezone without platting. Same state, different city.

  14. #14
    Cyburbian vagaplanner's avatar
    Registered
    Jan 2006
    Location
    Yo momma's house!
    Posts
    296
    It's typical for us to run a change of zoning and a subdivision plat together. If the Planning Commission recommends denial on the rezoning, I may hold the subdivison plat from going to the Council until they approve the rezoning. So I guess you could say the plat is conditional upon the rezoning being approved, but I've never really thought of it like that before.
    ...my lifestyle determines my death style!
    - Metallica

  15. #15
    Member
    Registered
    Aug 2007
    Location
    Up Nort'
    Posts
    17
    We will typically approve the plat with a number of conditions attached to it (stormwater plan, developer's agreement, zoning, etc.). Therefore, if even one of the conditions is not met, including the rezoning, the plat is not formally approved. We maintain control over this by not providing a certification signature or stamp until all conditions of approval are met.

+ Reply to thread

More at Cyburbia

  1. Replies: 3
    Last post: 02 Jun 2010, 11:17 AM
  2. Schools as Conditional Uses
    APA Iowa Chapter
    Replies: 0
    Last post: 01 Apr 2008, 5:52 PM
  3. Conditional zoning for ROW
    Land Use and Zoning
    Replies: 6
    Last post: 10 Apr 2005, 3:38 PM
  4. Conditional Use
    Land Use and Zoning
    Replies: 10
    Last post: 07 Mar 2003, 1:39 PM
  5. Conditional zoning
    Land Use and Zoning
    Replies: 8
    Last post: 14 Aug 2000, 12:30 PM