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Thread: Why the Media deserves to roast in a burning pit of lava.

  1. #1
    Cyburbian el Guapo's avatar
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    Why the Media deserves to roast in a burning pit of lava.

    Please read both stories and then please tell me which one will be covered by the mainstream media.

    Story 1: http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/new...cle3346386.ece

    "He said of the loss of Anbar province: “This created weakness and psychological defeat. This also created panic, fear and the unwillingness to fight. The morale of the fighters went down . . . There was a total collapse in the security structure of the organisation.” The emir complained that the supply of foreign fighters had dwindled and that they found it increasingly hard to operate inside Iraq because they could not blend in. Foreign suicide bombers determined to kill “not less than 20 or 30 infidels” grew disillusioned because they were kept hanging about and only given small operations. Some gave up and went home."

    Story 2: http://www.politico.com/news/stories/0208/8422.html

    “There haven't been gains, Wolf,” the speaker replied. “The gains have not produced the desired effect, which is the reconciliation of Iraq. This is a failure. This is a failure."

    Further, which story will reinforce the ideas already held by journalists and which one will be dismissed as an abberation or Bush propaganda.

    Nope, no media bias. It just doesn't exist.

  2. #2
    Cyburbian Budgie's avatar
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    Quote Originally posted by el Guapo View post
    Please read both stories and then please tell me which one will be covered by the mainstream media.

    Nope, no media bias. It just doesn't exist.
    Damn it el Guapo. It's all propaganda to keep us bickering among ourselves (good little republicans and good little democrats) while the real work is being done. Were you chipped while you were in the army?
    "And all this terrible change had come about because he had ceased to believe himself and had taken to believing others. " - Leo Tolstoy

  3. #3
    Chairman of the bored Maister's avatar
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    I have long been under the impression that the mainstream media has maintained a conservative bias. While many reporters may tend towards a liberal bias, editors tend towards a conservative bias. Seems like (especially) all the local and regional papers run a never-ending series of “hometown-soldier-donates-entire-paycheck-to-save-Iraqi-orphanage/puppy dogs-and-then-salutes-the-flag-and-praises-Jesus-and-hopes-to-be-home-soon” stories. It got old in a Stars & Stripes pre-Tet offensive reporting kinda way about four years ago…and they STILL do it!

    In any event I temporarily suspended my beliefs long enough to search the web and see if perhaps there was indeed a blackout or lack of ‘good news/progress’ stories run by mainstream media sources. Literally thousands of hits came up. Here’s a tiny sampling of progress in Iraq stories that ran in the mainstream media.

    http://www.boston.com/news/nation/ar..._are_stressed/

    http://www.usatoday.com/news/world/i...-us-iraq_N.htm

    http://www.nytimes.com/2007/11/25/us...7;20eCuX4svVfQ

    http://www.nysun.com/article/65735

    http://www.reuters.com/article/topNe...41945920071210

    This also does not appear to be some trend the mainstream media has just jumped on recently either, they’ve been reporting ‘successes’ all along. If there is any imbalance in the number of good-news events versus bad news stories reported it's because of the truism that, generally speaking, no news is good news. Here’s a small sampling of some older success-oriented stories run by major news sources. A very cursory google came up with thousands of similar links.

    http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn...-2004Dec5.html

    http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/htm...raqbush23.html

    http://www.csmonitor.com/2005/0928/p01s01-woiq.html

    I guess if some people are thinking there’s a liberal bias in the news and others think there’s a conservative bias, reality is probably somewhere in between and they’re being more impartial than either die-hard liberals or conservatives feel they are.
    People will miss that it once meant something to be Southern or Midwestern. It doesn't mean much now, except for the climate. The question, “Where are you from?” doesn't lead to anything odd or interesting. They live somewhere near a Gap store, and what else do you need to know? - Garrison Keillor

  4. #4
    Cyburbian Jen's avatar
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    Roast in a burning pit of lava? I think your roast would be toast, and lava is not long for pits, otherwise it would be magma.

    what would be the mainstream media if not for hoopy froods?

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    Cyburbian zman's avatar
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    Regardless of what is reported, it will most likely be near the middle or end of the broadcast after entertainment news and a bit about a dog walking on its hind legs for charity.

    Seems the media is losing focus on the fact that thousands of my generation are dying everyday in the Middle East.
    Reminds of a quote: America is not at war. Its military is at war; America is at home watching reality TV...
    You get all squeezed up inside/Like the days were carved in stone/You get all wired up inside/And it's bad to be alone

    You can go out, you can take a ride/And when you get out on your own/You get all smoothed out inside/And it's good to be alone
    -Peart

  6. #6
    Cyburbian illinoisplanner's avatar
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    Quote Originally posted by zmanPLAN View post
    Reminds of a quote: America is not at war. Its military is at war; America is at home watching reality TV...
    Exactly. The war would be won a lot quicker if America was at war. Like back in WWII...where everybody participated in the war effort in some way. People don't seem to get that though. If they don't want to participate in helping the war effort and want to naively think that terrorists do not want to kill us, then they should be content with the fact that the war will take a lot of money and decades to win. And if they think we should not be fighting over there, then they should be content with terrorists attacks on a regular basis.

    Back to the original topic at hand, I believe there is both conservative and liberal bias in the media, with the liberal bias outnumbering the conservative bias by about 10:1. OK, so we conservatives got Rush Limbaugh, Fox News and the Washington Times. The liberals have just about everything else though...CNN, MSNBC, NBC, CBS, ABC, New York Times, Washington Post, and just about every other major paper.
    "Life's a journey, not a destination"
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  7. #7
    Cyburbian TexanOkie's avatar
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    A majority of (respected) media in the U.S. tends to be center, center-left, when the majority of people in the country tend to be center, center-right. People with opinions, either to the left or right (because people rarely have strong center opinions about politics), tend to see biases in both directions.

  8. #8
    Cyburbian KSharpe's avatar
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    Quote Originally posted by illinoisplanner View post
    Exactly. The war would be won a lot quicker if America was at war. Like back in WWII...where everybody participated in the war effort in some way. People don't seem to get that though. If they don't want to participate in helping the war effort and want to naively think that terrorists do not want to kill us, then they should be content with the fact that the war will take a lot of money and decades to win. And if they think we should not be fighting over there, then they should be content with terrorists attacks on a regular basis.

    Back to the original topic at hand, I believe there is both conservative and liberal bias in the media, with the liberal bias outnumbering the conservative bias by about 10:1. OK, so we conservatives got Rush Limbaugh, Fox News and the Washington Times. The liberals have just about everything else though...CNN, MSNBC, NBC, CBS, ABC, New York Times, Washington Post, and just about every other major paper.
    What kind of efforts do you think ordinary Americans should be engaged in? There aren't any war bonds to purchase (at least, none have been made known to me), nor does it appear that going without pantyhose would be beneficial to the armed forces. I'm not being a smart-ass, seriously...I'm just not sure what you are thinking about us doing.
    Do you want to pet my monkey?

  9. #9
    Cyburbian zman's avatar
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    Quote Originally posted by illinoisplanner View post
    Exactly. The war would be won a lot quicker if America was at war. Like back in WWII...where everybody participated in the war effort in some way. People don't seem to get that though. If they don't want to participate in helping the war effort and want to naively think that terrorists do not want to kill us, then they should be content with the fact that the war will take a lot of money and decades to win. And if they think we should not be fighting over there, then they should be content with terrorists attacks on a regular basis.
    As usual, you and I agree on the larger issue at hand. The details, not so much.
    You get all squeezed up inside/Like the days were carved in stone/You get all wired up inside/And it's bad to be alone

    You can go out, you can take a ride/And when you get out on your own/You get all smoothed out inside/And it's good to be alone
    -Peart

  10. #10
    Cyburbian craines's avatar
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    Does anybody think that our power base needs a foe or opposition to justify itself and or agenda. I mean before the terrorist, it was communist Russia, before that It was China/Vietnam/Korea, Before that Germany.

    I dunno I am sure I am completely wrong but what the hey.
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  11. #11
    Cyburbian zman's avatar
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    Quote Originally posted by craines View post
    Does anybody think that our power base needs a foe or opposition to justify itself and or agenda. I mean before the terrorist, it was communist Russia, before that It was China/Vietnam/Korea, Before that Germany.

    I dunno I am sure I am completely wrong but what the hey.
    You need to rent the movie Canadian Bacon. http://imdb.com/title/tt0109370/

    Don't tell eG or illinoisplanner who wrote it...
    You get all squeezed up inside/Like the days were carved in stone/You get all wired up inside/And it's bad to be alone

    You can go out, you can take a ride/And when you get out on your own/You get all smoothed out inside/And it's good to be alone
    -Peart

  12. #12
    Cyburbian Otis's avatar
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    Have you actually looked at what the media is reporting? Or is this just your particular biased assumption? Most of the stories I see talk about the gains in Anbar province and how the surge seems to be working. And I don't read or watch the conservative press such as US News and World Report, Time magazine, the Washington Times, the Murdock papers, Fox, MSNBC (yes, in my mind they are conservative) etc. etc. Nor have I ever heard of politico.com. Is it any form of mainstream media? A reality check seems to be in order here. Maister has the right idea.

  13. #13
    Cyburbian TexanOkie's avatar
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    Quote Originally posted by Otis View post
    ...[T]he conservative press such as US News and World Report, Time magazine, the Washington Times, the Murdock papers, Fox, MSNBC (yes, in my mind they are conservative) etc. etc.
    Conservative press?

    1. U.S. News & World Report--editorial center/center-right
    2. Time--editorial center/center-left
    3. Washington Times--editorial right-center
    4. Fox/Murdoch--positioned center-right
    5. MSNBC--positioned left-center [MSNBC is the farthest left of the mainstream press, largely in reaction to Fox News]

    None of your assumptions bother me that much, Otis, especially since it would appear you're quite far left, except for MSNBC. MSNBC is not conservative. Farther to the right than you are, perhaps, but definitely left-of-center.

    And let's be realistic here, really... U.S. politics is all fairly centrist, especially when you compare us to most any other country's political system/parties. Even George W. is center-right. The farthest right we've ever been (as a whole) was either the Coolidge or Reagan years.

  14. #14
    Cyburbian CJC's avatar
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    Quote Originally posted by TexanOkie View post
    Conservative press?

    1. U.S. News & World Report--editorial center/center-right
    2. Time--editorial center/center-left
    3. Washington Times--editorial right-center
    4. Fox/Murdoch--positioned center-right
    5. MSNBC--positioned left-center [MSNBC is the farthest left of the mainstream press, largely in reaction to Fox News]

    None of your assumptions bother me that much, Otis, especially since it would appear you're quite far left, except for MSNBC. MSNBC is not conservative. Farther to the right than you are, perhaps, but definitely left-of-center.

    And let's be realistic here, really... U.S. politics is all fairly centrist, especially when you compare us to most any other country's political system/parties. Even George W. is center-right. The farthest right we've ever been (as a whole) was either the Coolidge or Reagan years.
    I cannot at all agree that U.S. Politics are "fairly centrist" compared to other countries - we are now at a fairly centrist stage compared to our past history, but we are much further to the right (and for most of the past century) than nearly all other countries in the world - and especially other OECD countries.

    I don't know of any countries except for the US (maybe Australia, maybe) that would be able to put Murdoch in the "center-right" category.

  15. #15
    Cyburbian michaelskis's avatar
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    Let me start by saying that 90% of the media is a bunch of crap that gets off on the sensationalism being driven into the minds of the left wing sheep in this county. They time and time repeat not just a diverted opinion of the truth, the focus on key words, rearrange them, and manipulate them into lies that feeds on a liberal/ terrorist propaganda machine. Just ask Dan Rather and the CBS news.

    And, no, we are not loosing this war because we at home are not involved, we are loosing this war because of the UN and the far left democratic leadership in this county that requires us to do everything other than a cat scan on insurgences before we can engage in effective combat. The liberals need to shove their diplomacy where the sun does not shine and let our troops fight, and win this war. The only thing that the liberals and the media is doing is discouraging our troops from succeeding.
    "A long habit of not thinking a thing wrong, gives it a superficial appearance of being right, and raises at first a formidable outcry in defense of custom. Time makes more converts than reason." - Thomas Paine Common Sense.

  16. #16
    Cyburbian imaplanner's avatar
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    Truth is - there is really no "center" that is useful in this sort of a discussion. EG and Mskis view of what "center" is is different than my view of "center".

  17. #17
    Unfrozen Caveman Planner mendelman's avatar
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    Moderator note:
    I'm sure everyone is fully aware of this, but this discussion could easily devolve into name calling, and we surely don't that.

    Thanks,
    mendelman
    I'm sorry. Is my bias showing?

    The ends can justify the means.

  18. #18
    Cyburbian TexanOkie's avatar
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    Quote Originally posted by CJC View post
    I cannot at all agree that U.S. Politics are "fairly centrist" compared to other countries - we are now at a fairly centrist stage compared to our past history, but we are much further to the right (and for most of the past century) than nearly all other countries in the world - and especially other OECD countries.

    I don't know of any countries except for the US (maybe Australia, maybe) that would be able to put Murdoch in the "center-right" category.
    I stand by my claim. I agree with you that a majority of countries are farther left than the United States, but if you look at the party structure and platforms in other nations, all of their different "left" and "right" parties are much farther left and right (and the occasional centrist parties) than the United State's Democratic and Republican parties. Perhaps not in Europe. Europe's major right-wing groups are on par or just slightly left of the Republican party. However, Europe only constitutes 11% of the world's population and 2% of it's land area, and while it does exert heavy economic and cultural influence throughout the world, it does not consist of the entire world and is a far cry from being the pinnacle of political perfection.

  19. #19
    Cyburbian Brocktoon's avatar
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    Why when Fox News reported that Obama attended a Madrasah when he lived in Indonesia and then it was widely disproven no one at Fox lost there job unlike Dan Rather when he reported the BS about Bush's time in the National Guard?

    Sun Tzu's "Art of War" and states, "Every war is won or lost before it's ever fought." Lack of planning was not the "liberals fault or the Republican majority in Congress when the invasion occured. The President is the commander and chief, he has gotten everything he wants from Congress, every dollar and every weapon system. He has set the policy, the number of troops etc.Congress does not set the dipolmatic agenda, that is the job of the Secretary of State who is appointed by the President. Whether its the media or success or failure in a conflict this country is governed through consenus.

    You cannot blame everything bad on liberals and claim everything that is good is done by conservatives whether its the media or in government.
    "If you don't like change, you're going to like irrelevance even less" General Eric Shinseki

  20. #20
    Gunfighter Mastiff's avatar
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    Quote Originally posted by michaelskis View post
    Let me start by saying that 90% of the media is a bunch of crap that gets off on the sensationalism being driven into the minds of the left wing sheep in this county.
    As opposed to the religious right wing nuts who flock to the polls because the GOP manages to get [abortion / stem-cell / gun control / gay marriage] on the same ballot...

    Quote Originally posted by michaelskis View post
    They time and time repeat not just a diverted opinion of the truth, the focus on key words, rearrange them, and manipulate them into lies that feeds on a liberal/ terrorist propaganda machine.
    Wow. You're really going to say that liberals are responsible for terror propaganda?! Ever hear of Karl Rove? His whole strategy in 2004 was to scare the crap out of everyone with "terror alerts", and tell you you're safer with Bush.


    Faltering Bush plays terror card
    Paul Harris - The Observer, Sunday August 29 2004

    "It is not the war in Iraq that is Bush's main campaign theme, however, it is the 'war on terror'. Across the American heartland, his message is the same: America is fighting a deadly enemy, peril is everywhere, trust me to protect you."


    That's just one of dozens of quotes from all types of sources during the election. Liberals, indeed...
    -----------------------------------------------------------------
    C'mon and get me you twist of fate
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    If you want to talk well then I'll relate
    If you don't so what cause you don't scare me

  21. #21
    Cyburbian TexanOkie's avatar
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    Quote Originally posted by Mastiff View post
    Wow. You're really going to say that liberals are responsible for terror propaganda?! Ever hear of Karl Rove? His whole strategy in 2004 was to scare the crap out of everyone with "terror alerts", and tell you you're safer with Bush.


    Faltering Bush plays terror card
    Paul Harris - The Observer, Sunday August 29 2004

    "It is not the war in Iraq that is Bush's main campaign theme, however, it is the 'war on terror'. Across the American heartland, his message is the same: America is fighting a deadly enemy, peril is everywhere, trust me to protect you."


    That's just one of dozens of quotes from all types of sources during the election. Liberals, indeed...
    For one, I think you completely misunderstood Mskis's remarks, Mastiff. Mskis was accusing liberals of spreading propaganda for the terrorists, not about fear of their actions. That would be Bush/GOP propaganda, in your view.

    Second, apparently Rove's message [according to you] struck a chord with the American people, who seem to understand the nature of the threat against us better than liberal elitists. Or that there's a threat at all, really, that is based on something much deeper than our own foreign policy history and that will not be dismissed easily, if at all.

    Oh, and P.S. - The "religious right wing nuts" are no more so nuts than the secular humanist left wing nuts. The core principles of both are at odds, but neither are nuts. There are both nuts and intellectuals on both sides.

  22. #22
    Cyburbian CJC's avatar
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    Quote Originally posted by TexanOkie View post
    I stand by my claim. I agree with you that a majority of countries are farther left than the United States, but if you look at the party structure and platforms in other nations, all of their different "left" and "right" parties are much farther left and right (and the occasional centrist parties) than the United State's Democratic and Republican parties. Perhaps not in Europe. Europe's major right-wing groups are on par or just slightly left of the Republican party. However, Europe only constitutes 11% of the world's population and 2% of it's land area, and while it does exert heavy economic and cultural influence throughout the world, it does not consist of the entire world and is a far cry from being the pinnacle of political perfection.
    Europe also represents most of the other developed countries of the world. I don't think it's really fair to compare developing countries to developed countries when talking about politics - it's just a completely different playing field. From all corners of the world there are very few developed countries that could be considered to the right of the US - just look to our northern neighbor for a country closer to home that is quite a bit further to the left.

    Even if you want to just look at percentages of world population - China, Japan, Brazil - the list of large countries that would be considered left of the US doesn't end in Europe.
    Last edited by CJC; 12 Feb 2008 at 2:16 PM.

  23. #23
    Gunfighter Mastiff's avatar
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    Quote Originally posted by TexanOkie View post
    For one, I think you completely misunderstood Mskis's remarks, Mastiff. Mskis was accusing liberals of spreading propaganda for the terrorists, not about fear of their actions. That would be Bush/GOP propaganda, in your view.

    Second, apparently Rove's message [according to you] struck a chord with the American people, who seem to understand the nature of the threat against us better than liberal elitists. Or that there's a threat at all, really, that is based on something much deeper than our own foreign policy history and that will not be dismissed easily, if at all.
    Really... Liberals spread propaganda for the terrorists. Please provide some sort of evidence of this. Basically, you're accusing anyone who is "liberal" (if that can be defined) as being guilty of treason. Nice work.

    Also, Rove did more than just that. He's a magician... He did use the threat of terror, even if it wasn't real, to convince the country we weren't safe. I'm not even going to digress on this point. But when you can paint the candidate who actually served in Vietnam as the bad soldier, and the guy who stayed home as the good one, you're a master at your craft.

    And the media at it up... all of them. And isn't this the point of the thread? Certain news outlets lean in particular directions, but all of the major players spew out the same crap.

    Quote Originally posted by TexanOkie View post
    Oh, and P.S. - The "religious right wing nuts" are no more so nuts than the secular humanist left wing nuts. The core principles of both are at odds, but neither are nuts. There are both nuts and intellectuals on both sides.
    Oh trust me... there are plenty of nuts to go around. Lots of "sheep" on both sides, too.
    -----------------------------------------------------------------
    C'mon and get me you twist of fate
    I'm standing right here Mr. Destiny
    If you want to talk well then I'll relate
    If you don't so what cause you don't scare me

  24. #24
    Cyburbian TexanOkie's avatar
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    Quote Originally posted by Mastiff View post
    Really... Liberals spread propaganda for the terrorists. Please provide some sort of evidence of this. Basically, you're accusing anyone who is "liberal" (if that can be defined) as being guilty of treason. Nice work.
    Don't ask me for proof - I didn't make the accusation. That being said, I don't believe Mskis is saying that terrorist groups are actually providing information to liberals to turn around and spew to the general public. However, the views that liberals tend to hold and convey often do serve to propagate the anti-U.S./Jewish/Christian/anyone-who's-not-extremist-Muslim message the terror groups spread. And what's funny is the extremists don't care if you're liberal or conservative or anything - they want to kill you anyway.

    Quote Originally posted by Mastiff View post
    Also, Rove did more than just that. He's a magician...
    Or just a genius, because his strategies worked and actually resonated with people.

    Quote Originally posted by Mastiff View post
    He did use the threat of terror, even if it wasn't real, to convince the country we weren't safe. I'm not even going to digress on this point.
    Look deeper and more long-term about this sentiment, please. We are planners, after all.

    Quote Originally posted by Mastiff View post
    But when you can paint the candidate who actually served in Vietnam as the bad soldier, and the guy who stayed home as the good one, you're a master at your craft.
    I would go into the nature of National Guard/Reserve units, but I really want to avoid the Swift Boat conversation that would eventually result.

    Quote Originally posted by Mastiff View post
    Oh trust me... there are plenty of nuts to go around. Lots of "sheep" on both sides, too.
    I believe that was my original sentiment.

    Quote Originally posted by CJC View post
    Europe also represents most of the other developed countries of the world. I don't think it's really fair to compare developing countries to developed countries when talking about politics - it's just a completely different playing field. From all corners of the world there are very few developed countries that could be considered to the right of the US - just look to our northern neighbor for a country closer to home that is quite a bit further to the left.

    Even if you want to just look at percentages of world population - China, Japan, Brazil - the list of large countries that would be considered left of the US doesn't end in Europe.
    There is also a striking parallel between countries who used to be world powers or superpowers who lose that status as they drift left, or drift left after/during the shift from status. Those that tried to sustain their power status or increase it eventually folded.
    Last edited by NHPlanner; 12 Feb 2008 at 2:53 PM. Reason: triple reply

  25. #25
    Cyburbian CJC's avatar
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    Quote Originally posted by TexanOkie View post
    There is also a striking parallel between countries who used to be world powers or superpowers who lose that status as they drift left, or drift left after/during the shift from status. Those that tried to sustain their power status or increase it eventually folded.
    So exactly which countries were you speaking of that were to the right of the US, if we're "centrist"? I don't exactly see this striking parallel - was Nazi Germany crazy to the left? Imperial Japan?

    I do agree with your point that there are fewer extreme parties here - but that's primarily because of the way our two party system is set up. There aren't a huge number of extreme left or extreme right governments in power out there - aside from third world countries. The difference is that in most countries there are dozens of political parties representing all parts of the spectrum. The governments themselves usually end up being pretty mellow.

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