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Thread: Los Angeles streets are different than other cities

  1. #1
    Cyburbian
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    Los Angeles streets are different than other cities

    I was looking at Los Angeles in the San Fernando valley and the super-blocks are very short less than 1KM.And most of it is on a modified grid system .You can take 2 LA super-blocks to = a mile.

    Does anyone know when the San Fernando valley was built and why the super-blocks are not space 1.5KM or 2KM like other cities.

    How is the traffic problems in the San Fernando valley than other cities?

    http://maps.google.com/?ie=UTF8&ll=3...16,0.2314&z=12


    Like other cities 1.6KM.



    The San Fernando valley less than 1KM the superblocks .


  2. #2
    Cyburbian mgk920's avatar
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    Most of the USA outside of the eastern and southeastern states is laid out on a surveyed grid of section squares that are about 1.6 km on a side (the old 'mile') as part of the Northwest Ordinance, which facilitated the development of the USA starting in the early 19th century. These sections are further divided into quarter sections and so forth. The edges of those sections were generally dedicated as public rights-of-way and used for roads. Those Los Angeles 'superblocks' are generally built on quarter sections, which were often under the ownership of single landowners.

    MANY other USA cities are laid out the same way, Chicago is a big example. Las Vegas, NV also has them, as do Minneapolis, Omaha, Milwaukee, Denver, Wichita, Oklahoma City, Tulsa and so forth.

    When those section and half-section roads and streets are well laid out, they can distribute traffic quite efficiently.

    Mike

  3. #3
    Cyburbian
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    So you saying those superblocks in the San Fernando valley date back to the 1801 to 1899?

    And each superblocks at one time was owned by a landowner?

    The strange thing is Las Vegas and Phoenix is its 1.6KM but LA like in the San Fernando valley is less than one KM.

    So you saying some cities take the 1.5KM or 1.6 KM and make quarter sections?

    Why do some cities make quarter sections and other not?

  4. #4
    Cyburbian DetroitPlanner's avatar
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    Looks very similar to much of Detroit and its suburbs as well. Arterials every mile, and collectors every half mile. Areas plotted prior to U.S. takeover were based upon Native American or French settlement patterns. Another exception is Judge Woodward's plan, which was only partially completed:
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Augustus_B._Woodward

    Much of SW Ontario is laid out in this same fashion.

    You need to come down the 401 or jump on the VIA Train and come visit us!

    Here is a short history on how things are set up in most of the United States:
    http://nationalatlas.gov/articles/bo...es/a_plss.html
    Last edited by DetroitPlanner; 18 Mar 2008 at 8:28 AM.
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  5. #5
    Cyburbia Administrator Dan's avatar
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    Quote Originally posted by nec209 View post
    So you saying those superblocks in the San Fernando valley date back to the 1801 to 1899?

    And each superblocks at one time was owned by a landowner?

    The strange thing is Las Vegas and Phoenix is its 1.6KM but LA like in the San Fernando valley is less than one KM.

    So you saying some cities take the 1.5KM or 1.6 KM and make quarter sections?
    Correct, but it's an oversimplification to say it's always the case.



    Much of California (and other parts of the United States that were once part of colonial Spain) was divided into ranchos and land grants before it became a part of the United States. The boundaries of these areas were established by metes-and-bounds surveys, and don't correspond with areas platted under the Public Land Survey System (section-township-range). When the ranchos and land grants were developed, a grid was often platted over them, much like the grids in some parts of cities outside of or established before the Public Land Survey System (Philadelphia, parts of New York, Washington, etc).

    Remember that the Dominion Land Survey that covers much of Canada is nearly identical to the Public Land Survey System in the US. You've got cities that are firmly based on it (Calgary, Edmonton) and others outside of it (Toronto, Montreal) that still have some "gridded" areas.

  6. #6
    Cyburbian
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    Looks very similar to much of Detroit and its suburbs as well. Arterials every mile, and collectors every half mile.
    Thats normally the case like Las Vegas the new areas 1.5KM or 0.93 miles.Well old areas every half mile.Most of Toronto in new areas are 1.5KM (0.93 miles) or 2KM ( 1.24 mile.)

    Areas plotted prior to U.S. takeover were based upon Native American or French settlement patterns.
    California, Nevada, Utah, Arizona, western Colorado was own by Spain to Mexico got its Independence and than Mexico own those states.Than it was Mexico and the US war.To the US took those states from Mexico.


    Another exception is Judge Woodward's plan, which was only partially completed:
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Augustus_B._Woodward
    Augustus B. Woodward was a Chief Justice and played role in the planning and reconstruction of Detroit fire.No where does it say he was planning California, Nevada, Utah, Arizona, western Colorado.

    Much of SW Ontario is laid out in this same fashion.
    Ya for some reason some are 1.5KM (0.93 miles)and others 2KM ( 1.24 mile.)And even more strange some are 3 KM (1.86 mile.)

    You need to come down the 401 or jump on the VIA Train and come visit us!

    Here is a short history on how things are set up in most of the United States:
    http://nationalatlas.gov/articles/bo...es/a_plss.html
    The Public Land Survey System (PLSS) is a way of subdividing and describing land in the United States. All lands in the public domain are subject to subdivision by this rectangular system of surveys, which is regulated by the U.S. Department of the Interior, Bureau of Land Management (BLM).


    It seems they are subdividing the land in the US for government control.

    The PLSS typically divides land into 6-mile-square townships, which is the level of information included in the National Atlas. Townships are subdivided into 36 one-mile- square sections.

    What is 36 one-mile- square sections? Would that be 1.5KM?

    Sections can be further subdivided into quarter sections, quarter-quarter sections, or irregular government lots


    Would this be less than 1KM?

  7. #7
    Cyburbian wahday's avatar
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    Correct me if I am wrong, but following the link provided, those superblocks look like they ARE one mile on a side (=1.6KM). Look carefully at the units on the scale again - zoom in so the units read 1mile up top and 1 KM below. The top measurement (miles) lines up exactly with the width of the superblocks. Or am I blind?

    Where the superblocks are bisected with E-W arterials, it is on the half-mile.

    This is also typical of Albuquerque streets developed post-WWII and especially post-1950's. 1 mile on a side superblocks with internally-focused subdivisions within, exclusively residential and often designed on a modified "garden city" formula (schools and/or parks at their middle, curvilinear streets, etc.). All retail is pushed out onto the arterials. And yeah, the traffic's bad because most people can only access necessities via car. With better grid patterns within, I expect traffic would be much better as one could more easily move through these areas instead of everyone piling onto the arterials for even the shortest of trips.

    For the record, you forgot to include New Mexico as being part of Mexico, too Though for all the states mentioned, Mexican rule was only about 24 years (depending on the area), so there wasn't a lot of land use impact in that time (certainly not in platting out superblocks for future suburban-style development...)
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  8. #8
    Cyburbian
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    I did some reading looking at my text book.A township is just a group of concession blocks.A township was than subdivided into 36 one-square-mile blocks.

    Each township is 36 mile in area.The township is subdivided into 36 one-square-mile blocks.Each section or block is given a number from 1 to 36.Each section or block is then sub-divided into four quarter-sections.

    31----32----33----34----35----36
    30----29----28----27----26----25
    19----20----21----22----23----24
    18----17----16----15----14----13
    07----0 8----09---10----11----12
    06 ----05----04---03----02----01


    Take section 27 it would be one mile that block and in that block would be 4 sections.That say the government needs to find a landowner.He is in this township in section or block 17 in NW end.

    Each 36 section or block is one mile .So section 15 is one mile or section 14 so on.And one mile is 1.61KM

    http://www.eforecourt.com/mph_kph_speed_convert.htm

    So that makes senses why so many US cities are one mile (1.61KM) the superblocks.

    But it looks like the San Fernando valley layout the superblocks that are 1.61KM and than made quarter sections.

    And why Toronto is 1.61KM ,2KM and some 3KM is so strange.

    One with quarter sections and one with out.


    You could also say landowner is in section or block 17 in the NW quarter sections.
    Last edited by nec209; 18 Mar 2008 at 6:49 PM.

  9. #9
    Cyburbian
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    If you really don't understand my post I can rephrase it?

  10. #10
    Cyburbian craines's avatar
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    Most of the valley was developed post WWII with the majority of the housing tracts installed during the 50, 60's and 70's. Traffic sucks, though it sucks everywhere in LA. Gridlock occurs on almost every east/west and north south major artery. I have lived in the sherman oaks area in the valley for the last 8 years.
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  11. #11
    Cyburbian estromberg's avatar
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    Has this been sufficiently explained? If not, I can explain it better (I am not a planner, I am a cartographer), but I won't go to the trouble of typing it all out, if it is understood now.

  12. #12
    Cyburbian
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    Quote Originally posted by estromberg View post
    Has this been sufficiently explained? If not, I can explain it better (I am not a planner, I am a cartographer), but I won't go to the trouble of typing it all out, if it is understood now.

    Reading the post what he was saying is LA like other cities in the US was layout on a grid about 1.6KM ( 1 mile ) and than the quarter sections that 1.6KM is half mile apart.

    This was late out in some where from 1801 ro 1890? I don't have the date



    A township is just a group of concession blocks.

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