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Thread: Graduate real estate development programs

  1. #226
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    MSRED Interviews

    Thanks for the feedback, Phear. I'm still in disbelief that MIT and Columbia don't interview their students before making their final admissions decisions. I guess that's subject to change though. If I learn of any changes to the application processes at any of the Top 4, I'll make sure to post. I encourage others to do the same.

    I look forward to getting the play-by-play on MIT as you lay the smack down on Cambridge this year.

    Best of luck,

    TwoOneTwo

  2. #227
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    Quote Originally posted by motogp46 View post
    Also, does anyone out there think that it helps coming in with a Masters degree? For instance, I will graduate with a B.S. in Construction Management and, if deemed beneficial for acceptance to a top program, will pursue a M.S. in Construction Management. WIll this help my chances at getting in at MIT or Columbia?
    ??? Anyone ???

    Phear I see you got in with an M.B.A. Any comments?

  3. #228
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    Quote Originally posted by motogp46 View post
    ??? Anyone ???

    Phear I see you got in with an M.B.A. Any comments?
    Based solely on my experience I believe that an advanced degree can hurt you with Columbia as they often look at masters degree holders applying for admission as professional students (at least with my MBA) but I think it will help you with MIT as they seem to value masters degrees holders as people who will enrich the program.

    Just my experience.

    - phear

    Quote Originally posted by TwoOneTwo View post
    Thanks for the feedback, Phear. I'm still in disbelief that MIT and Columbia don't interview their students before making their final admissions decisions. I guess that's subject to change though. If I learn of any changes to the application processes at any of the Top 4, I'll make sure to post. I encourage others to do the same.

    I look forward to getting the play-by-play on MIT as you lay the smack down on Cambridge this year.

    Best of luck,

    TwoOneTwo
    I believe MIT has this policy because its international draw would make it impossible interview 1/3 of the class. This is why they compensate by allowing you space ad infinitum. Columbia doesn't leave much space for you to present yourself at all so, outside of a "kick ass" attitude, I'm not really sure what they're looking for. Perhaps others can help to elucidate for you.
    Last edited by NHPlanner; 22 Aug 2008 at 2:08 PM. Reason: double reply

  4. #229
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    Columbia MBA/MSRED vs. MSRED

    I plan on attending grad. school next year in NY and have decided, between NYU and Columbia, that I want to go to Columbia. My question is do you think going for the MBA with Real Estate concentration is in my best interest? It sounds like going after a top MBA is better than top MSRED so it makes sense that this is the way to go but is Columbia's MBA held in high regard in the Real Estate industry?

    I want to go the development route so I chose Columbia over NYU and I don't think MIT or Cornell is a realistic choice for me. Plus I want to be in NYC.

    What do you think would yield better job placement in development between Columbia MBA/RE or MIT/Cornell MSRED?

    Also can I apply to Columbia's MBA and MSRED at the same time so I have a backup choice if I am not accepted into the MBA program? Thanks.

    -JC-

  5. #230
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    Phear,

    After reading your post it seems that it might be a good idea for me to pursue a M.S. in Construciton Management before applying to MIT and other top schools (for a M.S. in Real Estate Development). There are several schools which offer an online degree in C.M. such as USC (A fairly prestigious program) and Purdue or an eaiser to get into (and less prestigious) FIU or UF. My question is how does name recognition play into the admissions process at MIT and other top schools. Also, how does coming from an online program look towards the adcoms?

  6. #231
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    I graduated from the NYU program several years ago. Here's my story.

    I studied urban planning at Rutgers. When I graduated from Rutgers, I took a private sector real estate job because I didn't want to work for the government. After starting the job, I realized very quickly that I needed financial skills to advance in the business. So I signed up for the NYU program and focused on finance.

    The emphasis of the NYU program is learning analytical techniques that can be applied in the blatantly capitalist world of real estate investing. The professors are industry professionals, not academic researchers. My professors included a couple of investment bankers, a CEO of a family real estate company, and an entrepreneurial real estate investor. The stuff I learned - from building an IRR model to landlords' favorite methods of stealing from tenants - I continue to apply to real-life job assignments.

    In addition, the networking part of the NYU program was super. Students got on well and professors were happy to give advice. Students and professors routinely gathered after class for drinks. And the students came from diverse backgrounds - rich kids from 3rd world families who own a lot of real estate in their countries, career changers, and youngsters like me just starting out in real estate and eager to advance their careers.

    Other programs have higher admissions standards and more PhD professors. But I've managed to land jobs that graduates from those schools can't get, mostly due to my real world work experience. I worked for a company that developed shopping centers in other countries. Now I work for a firm that invests in real estate companies doing business around the globe. The real estate industry is a meritocracy and formal qualifications just don't matter very much.

    In New York, the sky is the limit for ambitious, smart real estate people. I make more $ and do more interesting work than I ever imagined when I was an urban planning student at Rutgers.

  7. #232
    Quote Originally posted by jtmnkri View post
    I graduated from the NYU program several years ago. Here's my story.

    I studied urban planning at Rutgers. When I graduated from Rutgers, I took a private sector real estate job because I didn't want to work for the government. After starting the job, I realized very quickly that I needed financial skills to advance in the business. So I signed up for the NYU program and focused on finance.

    The emphasis of the NYU program is learning analytical techniques that can be applied in the blatantly capitalist world of real estate investing. The professors are industry professionals, not academic researchers. My professors included a couple of investment bankers, a CEO of a family real estate company, and an entrepreneurial real estate investor. The stuff I learned - from building an IRR model to landlords' favorite methods of stealing from tenants - I continue to apply to real-life job assignments.

    In addition, the networking part of the NYU program was super. Students got on well and professors were happy to give advice. Students and professors routinely gathered after class for drinks. And the students came from diverse backgrounds - rich kids from 3rd world families who own a lot of real estate in their countries, career changers, and youngsters like me just starting out in real estate and eager to advance their careers.

    Other programs have higher admissions standards and more PhD professors. But I've managed to land jobs that graduates from those schools can't get, mostly due to my real world work experience. I worked for a company that developed shopping centers in other countries. Now I work for a firm that invests in real estate companies doing business around the globe. The real estate industry is a meritocracy and formal qualifications just don't matter very much.

    In New York, the sky is the limit for ambitious, smart real estate people. I make more $ and do more interesting work than I ever imagined when I was an urban planning student at Rutgers.
    jtmnkri,

    I too am a Rutgers planning grad and am seriously looking into the NYU MS RE program. Do you mind if I send you a PM to ask some questions regarding the program, its work load, and the demands of a planners job (night meetings etc.)?

    Thanks
    Ricky Slade: Listen to me, I intentionally make this gun look that way because I am smart.

    MADE

  8. #233
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    Quote Originally posted by jtmnkri View post
    I graduated from the NYU program several years ago ...

    ... Other programs have higher admissions standards and more PhD professors. But I've managed to land jobs that graduates from those schools can't get.

    1. Other programs have a combination of academics and business people as well. This is not something that is unique to NYU. In fact, most of the academics at the top programs also have impressive business credentials to complement their PhD's. Others can speak for their own respective programs but here are some examples of academic/professional experience to be found at MIT:


    - William Wheaton: Holds a Bachelors from Princeton and a Ph.D. in Economics from Wharton (U Penn). INVENTED modern real estate economics and is also co-founder of Torto Wheaton. ( http://www.twr.com/default.aspx?_title=PublicHome ), which is the most recognized and widely respected real estate research firm in the world.

    - Chris Gordon: Holds a Bachelors Degree in Civil Engineering from the U of Maine and a Masters Degree in Civil Engineering from MIT. He is the CEO of Harvard's $50 Billion Allston initiative. ( http://www.allston.harvard.edu/ )

    - Tony Ciochetti: B.A. in Finance from the University of Oregon and Ph.D. in Real Estate & Urban Land Economics from University of Wisconsin-Madison. 12 years of real estate consulting and development prior to his academic engagements.

    For a full list go here: http://web.mit.edu/cre/students/faculty/


    I'd be interested to hear about some of the more impressive faculty members at NYU.


    2. What jobs, exactly, can you get as a graduate of NYU that Columbia, Cornell, USC and MIT grads cannot?

  9. #234
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    hey phear, i sent you a message. could you please check your inbox when you get a chance

  10. #235
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    Quote Originally posted by phear_me View post
    1. Other programs have a combination of academics and business people as well. This is not something that is unique to NYU. In fact, most of the academics at the top programs also have impressive business credentials to complement their PhD's. Others can speak for their own respective programs but here are some examples of academic/professional experience to be found at MIT:


    - William Wheaton: Holds a Bachelors from Princeton and a Ph.D. in Economics from Wharton (U Penn). INVENTED modern real estate economics and is also co-founder of Torto Wheaton. ( http://www.twr.com/default.aspx?_title=PublicHome ), which is the most recognized and widely respected real estate research firm in the world.

    - Chris Gordon: Holds a Bachelors Degree in Civil Engineering from the U of Maine and a Masters Degree in Civil Engineering from MIT. He is the CEO of Harvard's $50 Billion Allston initiative. ( http://www.allston.harvard.edu/ )

    - Tony Ciochetti: B.A. in Finance from the University of Oregon and Ph.D. in Real Estate & Urban Land Economics from University of Wisconsin-Madison. 12 years of real estate consulting and development prior to his academic engagements.

    For a full list go here: http://web.mit.edu/cre/students/faculty/


    I'd be interested to hear about some of the more impressive faculty members at NYU.


    2. What jobs, exactly, can you get as a graduate of NYU that Columbia, Cornell, USC and MIT grads cannot?

    Phear or anyone who knows:

    Does anyone have any information about the University of Wisconsin-(Madison) and their MBA program (Real Estate emphasis)? Placement? Salary? Know anyone who went their and loved it? How do they compare to Cornell, USC, MIT, Columbia, NYU?

    I have heard great things about the Real Estate emphasis and that their placement is pretty good. Phear have you checked them out? Let me know what everyone thinks.

    Thanks guys.

    AJW

  11. #236
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    NYU Profs

    Phear Me seems to be an overly opinionated and biased person. While it is clear he is very educated and intelligent, I do not believe other members of this forum should look to him for advice. In a respected real estate publication, The Real Deal, NYU was listed as the top real estate graduate program and I tend to believe respected magazines over internet bloggers such as Phear Me.

    I have searched BW forums and several others and it seems that Phear Me is earning some reputation. You have managed to agitate members of pretty much every relevant real estate forum (if you care for examples, I can copy and paste) by promoting every institution that you have attended. We all understand the views of Phear Me so why are you still harping on the same information? For future purposes, if anyone is concerned, MIT is the best real estate program and USC is the top business program, according to the world-renowned Phear Me.

    As for quality of programs, common sense leads me to believe a graduate program located in the heart of New York City (NYU/COLUMBIA) will attract better talent, both students and educators, than elsewhere.

    That being said, regarding NYU professors, see below:

    George H. Ross

    Executive Vice President and Senior Counsel for the Trump Organization and was costar of the hit TV show The Apprentice. He teaches negotiation at NYU's School of Professional Studies and Continuing Education and authored the bestseller Trump Strategies for Real Estate.


    Kenneth Patton, B.S., M.S.
    divisional dean, clinical professor, and Klara and Larry Silverstein Chair, NYU Schack Institute of Real Estate

    A pioneer in urban economic development, Ken Patton has more than 30 years experience as an economist, real estate consultant and developer. He served for 13 years as COO of Helmsley-Spear Inc., where he brokered more than $1 billion worth of transactions. Prior to joining Helmsley-Spear, Patton served for seven years as president of the Real Estate Board of New York. He also served for six years as New York City’s Economic Development Administrator and Commissioner of Commerce, heading the creation of the nation’s largest and most comprehensive effort at urban economic development.

    Areas of Expertise:

    Real Estate Development and Financing
    National and International Real Estate Trends
    Regional Economics and Planning

    John Eschemuller, B.A., M.B.A.
    clinical associate professor of Construction Management, NYU Schack Institute of Real Estate
    John Eschemuller is a licensed professional engineer who has over 40 years of experience in the construction industry in New York City. Prior to teaching at NYU-SCPS, he taught part time in the M.B.A. program at Pace University. He is currently co-writing a textbook on construction management in New York City.

    Areas of Expertise:

    Construction Management
    Engineering
    Tom Geurts, B.S., M.S., Ph.D.
    clinical associate professor of Real Estate, NYU Schack Institute of Real Estate

    Tom Geurts has worked on calculating the optimal capital structure and cost of capital, as well as investment portfolio modeling. Each year he teaches a seminar for the graduate Real Estate program at the University of Amsterdam and one for the Technical University of Berlin.

    Areas of Expertise:

    Real Estate Issues, Particularly Related to Financing Decisions
    Risk and Portfolio Management Decisions
    International Implications
    Recent Publications and Research:

    Tom Geurts has published 19 academic articles in peer-reviewed journals and a book on public-private partnerships.

    Pamela Hannigan, B.S., M.S.
    clinical associate professor of Real Estate, NYU Schack Institute of Real Estate

    Pamela Hannigan has been involved in both macro- and microeconomic analysis of public and private sectors in banking, as well as industry and corporate forecasts in such diverse industries as energy, aerospace and telecommunications. She has worked as a financial systems analyst for Merrill Lynch, an assistant vice president for Chase Manhattan Bank and vice president of Investment Strategy for McLeod Young Weir. Additionally, she has served as vice president of finance and director of development for American Collectors of Fine Art, Inc., expanding markets to Southeast Asia and forecasting international exchange rates.

    Areas of Expertise:

    International Property Reform
    Taxation and Development
    Local Economic Development
    Interest Rates
    Competitive and Creative Cities
    Pamela Hannigan, B.S., M.S.
    clinical associate professor of Real Estate, NYU Schack Institute of Real Estate

    Pamela Hannigan has been involved in both macro- and microeconomic analysis of public and private sectors in banking, as well as industry and corporate forecasts in such diverse industries as energy, aerospace and telecommunications. She has worked as a financial systems analyst for Merrill Lynch, an assistant vice president for Chase Manhattan Bank and vice president of Investment Strategy for McLeod Young Weir. Additionally, she has served as vice president of finance and director of development for American Collectors of Fine Art, Inc., expanding markets to Southeast Asia and forecasting international exchange rates.

    Areas of Expertise:

    International Property Reform
    Taxation and Development
    Local Economic Development
    Interest Rates
    Competitive and Creative Cities


    Pamela Hannigan, B.S., M.S.
    clinical associate professor of Real Estate, NYU Schack Institute of Real Estate

    Pamela Hannigan has been involved in both macro- and microeconomic analysis of public and private sectors in banking, as well as industry and corporate forecasts in such diverse industries as energy, aerospace and telecommunications. She has worked as a financial systems analyst for Merrill Lynch, an assistant vice president for Chase Manhattan Bank and vice president of Investment Strategy for McLeod Young Weir. Additionally, she has served as vice president of finance and director of development for American Collectors of Fine Art, Inc., expanding markets to Southeast Asia and forecasting international exchange rates.

    Areas of Expertise:

    International Property Reform
    Taxation and Development
    Local Economic Development
    Interest Rates
    Competitive and Creative Cities
    Hugh Kelly, B.A., C.R.E.
    clinical associate professor of Real Estate, NYU Schack Institute of Real Estate
    Hugh Kelly is currently the principal of Hugh Kelly–Real Estate Economics, an independent consulting firm specializing in analysis, interpretation and application of economic variables for real estate decision-making. Previously, he spent over 20 years with Landauer Real Estate Counselors where, as chief economist, he oversaw the market study team for World Trade Center and General Motors Building financings and examined the economic potential for over a hundred metropolitan areas as a part of Lend Lease’s “Cities of Tomorrow.”

    Area of Expertise:

    Real Estate Economics
    Recent Publications and Research: Hugh Kelly has been the featured speaker at numerous national conferences of real estate and related industry associations, and will be speaking at the United Nations as part of a conference on World Cities. He has published a number of articles relating to economics in various real estate journals.

    Herve Kevenides, B.S., M.B.A., C.R.E.
    clinical associate professor of Real Estate, NYU Schack Institute of Real Estate

    Prior to teaching at NYU-SCPS, Herve Kevenides was managing director of Landauer Associates from 1997 to 1999. There he designed and conducted domestic and international real estate economics research, analysis, forecasting, and consulting assignments for various clients. Kevenides is editor in chief of New York University’s Real Estate Review.

    Areas of Expertise:

    Economic Analysis for Real Estate Investment
    International Money Market and Finance
    International Real Estate
    Real Estate Market Feasibility Analysis
    Expert Profile
    Gerald Levy, B.A., M.A., MAI
    clinical associate professor of Real Estate, NYU Schack Institute of Real Estate

    In addition to teaching, Levy is president of Gerald M. Levy & Co. LLC, Real Estate Advisors. Previously, he served as managing director, Real Estate Finance Group of The Chase Manhattan Bank (now J.P. Morgan Chase Bank), and senior vice president and general manager of the Real Estate and Corporate Services Division of pre-merger Chemical Bank. He has supervised real estate and construction activities in 40 countries in Europe, the Middle East, Africa, Asia and North and South America.

    Areas of Expertise:

    Arbitration and Mediation of Real Estate and Construction Disputes
    Real Estate Credit
    Real Estate Restructurings and Workouts
    Construction Lending
    Lawrence Longua, B.S.S., M.B.A.
    director and clinical associate professor , REIT Center, NYU Schack Institute of Real Estate

    Larry Longua has over 40 years of commercial real estate experience, having held senior positions in the real estate units of Chemical Bank, Irving Trust Company, Bankers Trust Company, and The Mitsubishi Trust and Banking Corporation. He is also principal of Canopy Development LLC, a resort development company, and principal of TernGroup LLC, developer of a $2 billion, mixed-use project in Elizabeth, NJ.

    Areas of Expertise:

    Financing and Pricing of Commercial Property in New York City
    REITs and Public Real Estate Debt
    Commercial Mortgage Backed Securities
    Commercial Real Estate Collateralized Debt Obligations


    Moderator note:
    ~Gedunker~ I deleted duplicate posting within this post.
    Last edited by Gedunker; 27 Aug 2008 at 9:48 AM.

  12. #237
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    Quote Originally posted by NYC08 View post
    Phear Me seems to be an overly opinionated and biased person. While it is clear he is very educated and intelligent, I do not believe other members of this forum should look to him for advice. In a respected real estate publication, The Real Deal, NYU was listed as the top real estate graduate program and I tend to believe respected magazines over internet bloggers such as Phear Me.

    I have searched BW forums and several others and it seems that Phear Me is earning some reputation. You have managed to agitate members of pretty much every relevant real estate forum (if you care for examples, I can copy and paste) by promoting every institution that you have attended. We all understand the views of Phear Me so why are you still harping on the same information? For future purposes, if anyone is concerned, MIT is the best real estate program and USC is the top business program, according to the world-renowned Phear Me.

    As for quality of programs, common sense leads me to believe a graduate program located in the heart of New York City (NYU/COLUMBIA) will attract better talent, both students and educators, than elsewhere.
    1. I, as were many of my classmates, was accepted into nearly every major real estate program. If indeed I were to be promoting one over the other it would not be out of a bias, but rather out of sincere belief. If I thought a program other than MIT was better FOR ME then I would have chosen it. Plain and simple.

    2. Please offer a quotation, from anywhere, wherein I state that USC is the best MBA program available. While very proud of my graduate education there, I have gone on record as stating that one of the reasons I am pursuing an MIT MSRED is because the USC brand needs additional leverage in order to gain access to some of the top IB and Finance firms.

    3. My post on professors was one that was addressing an ignorant claim that you originally made when you implied that other programs did not have educators with professional experience. I opened the floor for anyone to post relevant examples. I asked you to offer up some of the more interesting professors and you did little more than copy and paste from the faculty bios page, when a few examples and a link would have been sufficient. I will note that such an action failed to address any points that I made, was a terrible response to my inquisitiveness regarding NYU profs, and did nothing to address my second and more important question to you, which can be seen below.

    4. You claimed that NYU grads can get jobs that others cannot and you still have yet to justify that claim. I did not paste a few select MIT bios in order to get into a pissing contest with you over the quality of faculty at either program. I posted the faculty bios to address your ignorant claim regarding the lack of professional experience in the classroom at other programs. All that you managed to accomplish with your internet tantrum was to throw yourself in with the lot of delusional NYU grads who somehow think attacking my unbiased and objective evaluation of the real estate program (which was, I shall remind you, primarily positive) will suddenly elevate the status of the university. The immaturity and blatant lack of intelligent and even civil responses from (most, not all, some posters here have been fantastic) of the NYU students on these boards has done more to damage the credibility of the school than anything a single man on a few internet forums could ever do. In fact, if you took the time to read my original posting which contained highlights of my personal research, you would see that I feel NYU offers a very important niche service to NY real estate professionals. I do, however, maintain that my criticisms regarding the program are still valid cause for concern and will not list NYU amongst the elite programs because many of its students refuse to be honest with the programs placement record and admissions policies.

    5. I receive somewhere in the realm of 5 - 10 private messages per week and, as you can see, several public requests for comment per week as well. I freely take time out of what is an enormously busy schedule in order to help people looking for the best information about a growing field with little published research. In fact, about the only people who have had cause to be angry with me are those who attend NYU and simply did not like the fact that I did not classify them amongst the top 4 universities. I shall ask you another question, if people are not to seek my advice as you suggest to them, where should they go? The essence of your claims are that my responses to people are selfishly biased. In short, you claim that I am simply trolling for the programs I chose to attend and yet did I not offer these evaluations several weeks (and on BW several months) prior to the date that acceptance letters went out? Does this not validate the integrity of my opinions? Doesn't having a choice amongst the top schools annihilate the pejorative remarks pertaining to the accusations of offering advice tainted by my own best interests? And so the irony is that it is the very same people who accuse me of having ulterior motives that are the ones who, in fact, are riddled with selfish and biased motives as they go on attacking me as a person simply because they dislike the content of my message. Indeed, it is you and other NYU students who are guilty of trolling boards to simply make a point and with the singleminded purpose of talking up up your program. Where I have offered sound and reasoned evidence and willingly given of my time, you show up with almost no posts and the best argument you can come up with is an ad hominem attack?

    People come to me and ask me for advice because I've taken the time to ensure that I know what I'm talking about. I took a lot of time to research this information to make damn sure I knew what was going on before I made my own decision and I am of such a disposition that I share it and ask nothing in return. If my posts now slant towards MIT in content it is simply because my awareness of that program exceeds my awareness of others. I am no longer in the application stage and because life is dynamic things there will begin to change and my experiences will become increasingly less useful. This is a large part of why I am always careful to invite and encourage others to share their opinion. Has not the entirety of your comments here been 100% focused on either NYU or bashing me? Are you, once again, not guilty of your own accusations (i.e. All I do is talk about MIT, despite the fact that one need only view this page to see that is patently false)? It is simply because of the fact that NYU is, by itself, larger than the top 4 programs combined as well as the strong east coast slant of this forum that the representatives succeed in creating so much volume for their cause, as if volume and fidelity were one and the same. The thing I just cannot understand is how you think such juvenile responses do anything at all to accomplish your goals. As you can see, every "NYU attack on phear" does nothing but promulgate the same tired problem and take time away from helping others. The sky has not fallen. I haven't stopped using facts to govern well thought out responses no matter how much those facts upset you. People don't stop asking me questions. And I am not going to stop helping people who ask for it, even if it pisses you off and makes you call me names. So why bother with this childish exercise at all?

    In the meantime I have a novel concept for you, if you disagree with a point that I've made why don't you try advancing an argument based on merit instead of slander. To do otherwise is the mark of a poor education.

    Quote Originally posted by AJW View post
    Phear or anyone who knows:

    Does anyone have any information about the University of Wisconsin-(Madison) and their MBA program (Real Estate emphasis)? Placement? Salary? Know anyone who went their and loved it? How do they compare to Cornell, USC, MIT, Columbia, NYU?

    I have heard great things about the Real Estate emphasis and that their placement is pretty good. Phear have you checked them out? Let me know what everyone thinks.

    Thanks guys.

    AJW

    As I have stated in previous posts the University of Wisconsin - Madison is the grandaddy of real estate. For real estate it is very well respected and well renowned. An MBA from UW-M with an emphasis in real estate will go a long way within the real estate industry. However, be forewarned, the UW-M MBA will not be nearly as well received in other industries, regardless of your emphasis.

    Here is a link to the employment report: http://www.bus.wisc.edu/mbacs/students/stats.asp

    The base salary for the real estate specialization is just underneath what one would expect from Cornell and USC MPSRE/MRED so I would say it is relatively competitive with those programs, presuming the bonuses track relatively equally. Like most of the top programs, it lags a little but more noticeably behind MIT. My opinion is that if you are devoted to the MBA route and you can achieve admission into a top 20 then you should probably accept admission as salary numbers will be far better. However, if you find yourself more likely to be admitted to schools in the UW-M range than it is the easy choice for a real estate emphasis as their industry reputation is quite strong.

    Hope that helps.

    Quote Originally posted by motogp46 View post
    Phear,

    After reading your post it seems that it might be a good idea for me to pursue a M.S. in Construciton Management before applying to MIT and other top schools (for a M.S. in Real Estate Development). There are several schools which offer an online degree in C.M. such as USC (A fairly prestigious program) and Purdue or an eaiser to get into (and less prestigious) FIU or UF. My question is how does name recognition play into the admissions process at MIT and other top schools. Also, how does coming from an online program look towards the adcoms?
    Construction management is a very different route that is largely experiential in my estimation. However, it would be extremely advantageous for an entrepreneurial developer to be able to act as the contractor on his own deals or even for a developer with a blue chip firm to have that background.

    Top schools seem to place very little emphasis (with the exception of the Harvard MDesS, which is a different degree) on where you did your undergrad. It's work experience, GMAT scores, GPA, Essays and your interview that really seem to matter.
    Last edited by NHPlanner; 27 Aug 2008 at 10:09 AM. Reason: double reply

  13. #238
    Moderator note:
    Everybody -- this thread has devolved into a pissing match. Discuss programs like the professionals you all seem someday to want to be or the thread will be closed. THIS IS THE FINAL WARNING.
    Je suis Charlie

  14. #239
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    Quote Originally posted by phear_me View post
    1. I'd be interested to hear about some of the more impressive faculty members at NYU.
    George Ross taught a real estate law class I took. The real estate economics class was taught by the chief economist of New York City’s comptroller’s office. The finance classes were taught by investment bankers. These were great classes that taught me how the real estate business really works, including the ways real estate people make and lose lots of money.

    Quote Originally posted by phear_me View post
    2. What jobs, exactly, can you get as a graduate of NYU that Columbia, Cornell, USC and MIT grads cannot?
    My first job after college was with a multinational company in New Jersey. It was a manufacturing company, but the job enabled me to travel to many countries to work on real estate projects, such as looking for sites to build new plants. At the same time, I was doing the NYU real estate program part-time because I knew I needed to learn more about real estate finance.

    I began searching for a new job after I graduated from NYU. I was hired by a company that was beginning to develop and acquire real estate in other countries. They wanted a person who could create pro-formas, haggle with lawyers and construction people, and travel to developing countries to search for investment opportunities. I got the job because I had the combination of real-world experience and financial skills. I also was willing to work for less than $100,000.

    The founder of this company had 2 Ivy League degrees and the company president didn’t go to college. We hired interns from top MBA schools each summer, but we never hired any of them. In other words, it didn’t matter where you went to school. An academic credential alone won’t convince most real estate bosses that you’re capable of handling the most demanding parts of the job, which in my experience include travel and negotiating with lawyers and construction guys. Experience matters more than a fancy degree when you’re trying to persuade a planning board to support a zoning change or trying to convince a union boss not to shut down a job site.

    After a couple of years, the number of interesting projects diminished. In addition, the New York job market was heating up. And I wanted to make a lot more money. So I applied for a job with a top real estate investment company based in New York. I was offered a position, we negotiated compensation, and I accepted the job. Again, the reason I got the job was my work experience, not my education. The firm had plenty of people with Ivy League degrees, but a shortage of people with genuine real estate work experience.

    In this job, I get paid a lot of money to travel around the world, visit properties, and meet the people who run the companies that own the properties. Ultimately, I’m accountable for the investments we make in these companies. It is a great job, but a graduate of a top MBA or real estate program will struggle to get hired here unless they have some real estate work experience. However, I wouldn’t have gotten this job or the one before it if I didn’t go to NYU and learn finance there.

    The guy below is a decent example of how experience matters more than graduate degrees in the real estate business. He’s 31 years old, never went to grad school, and recently was hired to be the Chief Investment Officer of a major real estate company. He got the job because of his experience, not his academic credentials. He made more than $1 million in 2007, even though he didn’t start the job until April.

    http://phx.corporate-ir.net/phoenix....ovBio&ID=65299

    http://ccbn.10kwizard.com/xml/downlo...531&format=PDF (see page 34 of pdf for comp details)

    Today, the 2 most valuable qualifications to have if you’re looking for a great real estate investment job are international experience and a CFA. Where you went to school has never mattered in this business, and it probably never will.

    Phear me, what are your career goals?

  15. #240
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    Quote Originally posted by jtmnkri View post

    Today, the 2 most valuable qualifications to have if you’re looking for a great real estate investment job are international experience and a CFA. Where you went to school has never mattered in this business, and it probably never will.
    First, I appreciate the feedback you offered on the profs and I suspect others here will find that helpful.

    If I am understanding you correctly, you would disagree with NYC08 that the NYU program allows you to get jobs graduates of other programs cannot? To note, that question was in response to a statement made by one of your NYU peers.

    Also, if one is looking to go into investment banking I strongly disagree that brand does not matter. And even in development qua development I believe that, for better or for worse, the days of just winging it without an educational background, with the exception of the rich kid running the family PE fund (or a portion thereof), are numbered. There will always be exceptions, but even as you noted, your firm was interning MBA's and despite the fact you never hired that was done for a reason, no?

    While I do believe that brand often matters in placement, I don't necessarily agree that it should always be that way, so much of what you had to say resonates with me.

    I appreciate your relevant comments as I am sure many others will. I for one would prefer to keep the conversation focused on the programs and their various offerings rather than some of the other drivel that has made its way onto the board.

    Cheers,

    - phear

  16. #241
    Quote Originally posted by Gedunker View post
    Moderator note:
    Everybody -- this thread has devolved into a pissing match. Discuss programs like the professionals you all seem someday to want to be or the thread will be closed. THIS IS THE FINAL WARNING.
    This thread is a very active and large educational resource. It is helping many people with their educational goals, and it's bringing many new members to the Cyburbia community. Just look at the amount of page views and first time posters.

    There is a problem of course coming from trolls. This is apparent as there are several new registrants with their first posts being nothing more than thinly veiled personal attacks. It would be a loss to let the trolls win by closing the entire thread.

    Cyburbia has always been excellent in promoting healthy discussions. Would it be possible to delete the posts and accounts which are obvious attempts at trolling?

  17. #242
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    Phear me,

    The NYU program, like most academic programs, doesn't give its students special access to jobs. However, the NYU program's networking culture and New York location are massive advantages as New York has a deeper, wider pool of real estate investment jobs than any other city, by far.

    The recruiting process for investment banking jobs in bulge bracket firms is more rigid than the recruiting process for real estate investment jobs inside these firms. I agree with you - for investment banking positions, name brand matters, and applying with an MBA from Columbia is better than trying with an MS in real estate from any school.

    Keep in mind that investment banking makes up a tiny proportion of real estate investment job opportunities. Companies such as Goldman Sachs and Morgan Stanley have a lot more people doing real estate equity research and real estate investment management than real estate investment banking. In addition, smaller investment firms and hedge funds having a real estate focus employ a lot more people than the more visible investment banks. My personal experience indicates that a combination of the NYU program and applicable job experience can get you an interview for all of these positions.

    What do you want to do when you complete your degree?

  18. #243
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    Quote Originally posted by jtmnkri View post
    Phear me,

    The NYU program, like most academic programs, doesn't give its students special access to jobs. However, the NYU program's networking culture and New York location are massive advantages as New York has a deeper, wider pool of real estate investment jobs than any other city, by far.

    The recruiting process for investment banking jobs in bulge bracket firms is more rigid than the recruiting process for real estate investment jobs inside these firms. I agree with you - for investment banking positions, name brand matters, and applying with an MBA from Columbia is better than trying with an MS in real estate from any school.

    Keep in mind that investment banking makes up a tiny proportion of real estate investment job opportunities. Companies such as Goldman Sachs and Morgan Stanley have a lot more people doing real estate equity research and real estate investment management than real estate investment banking. In addition, smaller investment firms and hedge funds having a real estate focus employ a lot more people than the more visible investment banks. My personal experience indicates that a combination of the NYU program and applicable job experience can get you an interview for all of these positions.

    What do you want to do when you complete your degree?
    I think that any of the top MSRED programs can get you into most positions given the right circumstances. The question is, how likely are those circumstances to come about? I think, essentially, we are saying the same thing.

    I will say that after viewing the alumni database I was extremely impressed. MIT MSRED's are at places like Goldman and an extremely impressive list of senior or C Level positions at top firms (i.e. Cushman Wakefield, Jones Lang Lasalle, Lehman Brothers, Deloitte, Hines etc.). I stand firm in my belief that MIT has the best placement of all the top programs, though again, every program serves it's own particular niche very well and I will concede that NYU's proximity to the capital markets is a definitive advantage for the student who has the right background and is willing to network. NYU is especially advantageous to the real estate professional who is already at a great firm and looking to advance while going to school part time. I think a lot of the top "placement" at NYU comes from people who are already in fantastic positions who see value in the NYU program. That is, however, based on hearsay.

    To answer your question; I would like to place in an investment banking, private equity, or in originations with a portfolio lender like Hancock. If my sector is still beat up at graduation I will probably go to law school and study environmental / international law. That will largely depend on the quality of firm that I place with.

    - phear

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    Moderator note:
    Folks, the tenor of this thread, what with the impersonations, multiple mod warnings, and general rancor, has become such that it's getting closed. The information and posts on this thread will continue to be viewable, and may be conveniently referred to at any time. The difference, however, will be that no further posting on this thread will occur.
    People will miss that it once meant something to be Southern or Midwestern. It doesn't mean much now, except for the climate. The question, “Where are you from?” doesn't lead to anything odd or interesting. They live somewhere near a Gap store, and what else do you need to know? - Garrison Keillor

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