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Thread: Graduate real estate development programs

  1. #151
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    NYU

    For anyone who does know....

    What caliber of undergraduate/graduate programs do the majority of students who go to NYU come from? How do students at NYU interact among each other? As there seems to be a big disparity in the ages of the NYU MS students, is there a bias from older students toward younger students and vice versa? I am personally concerned about this as I have just graduated from University of Michigan several weeks ago. At 21, graduating from Michigan with a degree in Political Science, I have little real estate experience and only a liberal arts education. I am concerned about how this will affect me in graduate school. I did relatively well in school and on the GMAT (3.5 GPA/ 660 GMAT); however, the only actual RE experience that I have has been the few internships that I have had over the summer, which truthfully did not teach me a great deal. Should my lack of real estate experience and lack of a business school education affect me or will I just have to put in extra work to compensate? Are there many students in my position?

    Sorry but even more questions...I have heard that the real estate library at NYU is great but that it is not terribly accessible, is this true? Further, how are the other resources that NYU offers such as career services, labs, academic advisors, availability of professors, etc. Do people use the library to study or is most of the work done elsewhere? I thank everyone in advance for any help offered and again, thanks to BDH for being especially helpful to those interested in NYU


    Thanks again.



    Quote Originally posted by bdh View post
    I can't really comment on the overall make up of the student body, other than to say that maybe 5 - 10% of the students in my own classes have been foriegn, often sent by the companies they work for to complete the degree. Students definitely come from all corners. Given the size of the programs, I'd be surprised to learn that there are actually more foriegn students at Columbia, but the concentration of foriegn students may be higher. There is also an international exchange program that brings students from several foreign universities to take courses at the REI.

    In terms of course focus, the emphasis is definitely on the US, and particularly the NY metro area, to my own frustration at times. I have heard that MIT has the best international focus in terms of course structure.

  2. #152
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    I don't feel comfortable speaking for the school on these kinds of questions (e.g., where did NYU students go to undergrad) - all I can offer is based on my own experience. I've shared classes with everyone from "nowhere I've ever heard of " grads to Harvard Law grads, so safe to say it varies. Like any graduate program, the students tend to be older and - as posted before - having experience is a benefit but not necessarily a requirement, particularly for students in the Graduate Certificate program vs. the Masters program. I don't think there is a bias against younger or older students, except that younger students may tend to spend time with younger students and older students (like me) rush off to work or our families more quickly.

    This is a point that needs clarification - standards for acceptance to the Certificate program are lower than for the Masters program, in terms of academic background, test requirements and experience. This contributes to the high acceptance rate discussed above and also to the variety of experience and academic credentials among the student body. In the past, students with marginal records could go through the six-course Certificate program and then, as long as they met a certain GPA requirement, matriculate to the Masters program. That is still essentially true, but the GPA requirement has been ratcheted up substantially to make acceptance to the Masters program from the Certificate program more difficult. Can't say how this is playing out in the real world, as I was accepted to the Masters program.

    In terms of facilities, the program is clearly focused on part-time students (despite a growing number of full-time students) and the "on-campus" resources are limited. Classes are held in Midtown Manhattan - not on the main NYU campus in the Village. This is very convenient for working professionals as the REI building is easily accessible, but it does not lend itself to the sort of - "hey, let's go hang out on the quad and discuss the intricacies of cap rates" discussions that you might want. On the other hand, you are in the heart of the City, and you can have that conversation in the middle of Bryant Park - a pretty nice campus quad - or better yet, in the bar at the Bryant Park Hotel. Library facilities are limited but you do have access to the full NYU libraries on the main campus. Academic advising - marginal. Career services - my experience was good but many people complain that there is not enough. They host a career night with a huge number of firms in attendance (though I don't know how many are necessarily hiring at any given event) and also sponsor a lot of events, including alumni-student social events that are the best bet for networking, which is a great way to find jobs.

    Professors are very accessible, but they don't have offices in the building, etc - they are largely working professionals. They make time for students in my experience, including inviting you to their offices when necessary. Something pretty cool about going to meet with someone at the headquarters of a major development firm, versus in a cramped academic office.

    Hope this helps.

  3. #153
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    Certificate Students

    Bdh,

    You said, "This is a point that needs clarification - standards for acceptance to the Certificate program are lower than for the Masters program, in terms of academic background, test requirements and experience. This contributes to the high acceptance rate discussed above and also to the variety of experience and academic credentials among the student body"

    Clarify for me further please:

    1. Do professionals in the certificate program take classes together with students in the masters program?

    2. Are you saying that the high acceptance rates and low gmat scores at NYU are due to administration combining the stats of both the masters and certificate programs into one group?

  4. #154
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    Yes, students in the Certificate and Masters programs take classes together.

    My wording in the previous post was probably too strong. I don't know whether data on Certificate and Masters students get lumped together by the administration in reporting or not, but I suspect that they may, particularly the acceptance ratio. You'd have to check with the school to know for certain.

    I didn't specifically mention test scores, but doubt that those are combined, since admission to the Certificate program does not require test scores to be submitted, one of the reasons that some people choose to go that route. Admission to the Masters program requires a GMAT or GRE score, though I understand this is sometimes waived for applicants who have been out of undergrad for some time. For example, I submitted GRE scores from my application to planning grad school which technically were expired (more than five years old) which NYU accepted without comment.

  5. #155
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    Quote Originally posted by bdh View post
    Yes, students in the Certificate and Masters programs take classes together.

    My wording in the previous post was probably too strong. I don't know whether data on Certificate and Masters students get lumped together by the administration in reporting or not, but I suspect that they may, particularly the acceptance ratio. You'd have to check with the school to know for certain.

    I didn't specifically mention test scores, but doubt that those are combined, since admission to the Certificate program does not require test scores to be submitted, one of the reasons that some people choose to go that route. Admission to the Masters program requires a GMAT or GRE score, though I understand this is sometimes waived for applicants who have been out of undergrad for some time. For example, I submitted GRE scores from my application to planning grad school which technically were expired (more than five years old) which NYU accepted without comment.
    1. I think the fact that certificate professionals and masters students take classes together adds further evidence to the concern over the quality of the NYU student body and the rigor of the program. Even I did not know that this was the case prior to your post. Frankly, I'm shocked.

    2. I find it highly doubtful that NYU combines admission stats for a non degree program with a degree program. Do they even reject people for the certificate program? On what basis would they do so?

  6. #156
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    I'm sorry I opened up the question of admissions statistics and criteria - I don't work for the school and don't have the information to answer your question. My fault for introducing the suggestion that numbers for Certificate and Masters programs may be combined when I can't back that statement up.

    In terms of selectivity, it's a legitimate concern. You've made the point and no one has really disagreed with you that other programs are more selective (it's a statistical fact). NYU would argue that what it loses in selectivity it makes up for in the broadness of student experience and alumni network, plus faculty qualifications. It's obviously an arguable point - everyone makes up their own mind what fits for them. For busy professionals who want to attend part-time, have access to some of the industry's leading professionals (not necessarily academics), and benefit from a more comprehensive two-year program, NYU may be best. I go to school with people with Ivy-league degrees and people with degrees from schools I've never heard of. I do my best to learn from all of them, and find there are ample opportunities to do so.

    Take a look at the alumni organization - nearly 2000 members. Take a look at the Advisory Board members. Take a look at the events open to students, such as the invite below, which every Masters student is able to attend - for free no less - and sit with and network with leaders of the industry.

    http://www.scps.nyu.edu/export/sites...ary-dinner.pdf

    Those are benefits of the program that I think would be tough to match at any other real estate program. Real estate is largely about relationships, and I would argue that NYU provides the best opportunity to establish relationships in the industry of any program.

  7. #157
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    Non-Profit Development Experience

    Hi guys. Great thread.

    Does anyone have experience working for a non-profit development firm? I imagine the skills required/attained through private and non-profit experiences are similar. Would anyone disagree with that; or specifically recommend time in the private sector before pursuing an MRED?

  8. #158
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    Quote Originally posted by bdh View post
    I'm sorry I opened up the question of admissions statistics and criteria - I don't work for the school and don't have the information to answer your question. My fault for introducing the suggestion that numbers for Certificate and Masters programs may be combined when I can't back that statement up.

    In terms of selectivity, it's a legitimate concern. You've made the point and no one has really disagreed with you that other programs are more selective (it's a statistical fact). NYU would argue that what it loses in selectivity it makes up for in the broadness of student experience and alumni network, plus faculty qualifications. It's obviously an arguable point - everyone makes up their own mind what fits for them. For busy professionals who want to attend part-time, have access to some of the industry's leading professionals (not necessarily academics), and benefit from a more comprehensive two-year program, NYU may be best. I go to school with people with Ivy-league degrees and people with degrees from schools I've never heard of. I do my best to learn from all of them, and find there are ample opportunities to do so.

    Take a look at the alumni organization - nearly 2000 members. Take a look at the Advisory Board members. Take a look at the events open to students, such as the invite below, which every Masters student is able to attend - for free no less - and sit with and network with leaders of the industry.

    http://www.scps.nyu.edu/export/sites...ary-dinner.pdf

    Those are benefits of the program that I think would be tough to match at any other real estate program. Real estate is largely about relationships, and I would argue that NYU provides the best opportunity to establish relationships in the industry of any program.
    I will grant you that a larger program has more opportunity for networking. I think my reaction was a bit knee jerk given some of the NYU admits that came before you and was unwarranted. You have been an extremely helpful resource to a lot of people here and I think that's awesome. In fact I quite like you. That being said, I really am surprised that NYU combines the certificate and graduate classes. I would be rather irritated if I were in your shoes. It seems to lessen the prestige and luster of the accomplishment once industry professionals become aware of the situation. And it is one that is wholly unnecessary as well. I really don't get that decision on their part.

    I firmly beleive that NYU could turn around tomorrow and offer a program that was just as competitive as the M4 and still continue to serve the part time market. I am disappointed that they would rather be a cash cow than help to set new standards of excellence in the field by applying their resources to a more select and intimate group of talent.

    Many people that are attending NYU could go anywhere they wanted but they need an East Coast part time option. NYU could still do this and be selective. For example, USC has the part time option and their GMAT scores are on the order of 660 or so. By choosing their current methodology NYU is doing east coast working professionals a disservice. I wonder what their perspective on it is? They certainly have no problem being selective with their MBA program!

    It's a very interesting thing to sit and think about. They could be ultra competitive and yet they would rather reach a very broad market. That is extremely atypical of not only other private universities but even relative to other NYU programs.

    That being said: I'd really be interested in hearing about some of the topics you've covered in development and the economics/finance portion of the curriculum.

  9. #159
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    Quote Originally posted by phear_me View post
    I will grant you that a larger program has more opportunity for networking. I think my reaction was a bit knee jerk given some of the NYU admits that came before you and was unwarranted. You have been an extremely helpful resource to a lot of people here and I think that's awesome. In fact I quite like you. That being said, I really am surprised that NYU combines the certificate and graduate classes. I would be rather irritated if I were in your shoes. It seems to lessen the prestige and luster of the accomplishment once industry professionals become aware of the situation. And it is one that is wholly unnecessary as well. I really don't get that decision on their part.

    I firmly beleive that NYU could turn around tomorrow and offer a program that was just as competitive as the M4 and still continue to serve the part time market. I am disappointed that they would rather be a cash cow than help to set new standards of excellence in the field by applying their resources to a more select and intimate group of talent.

    Many people that are attending NYU could go anywhere they wanted but they need an East Coast part time option. NYU could still do this and be selective. For example, USC has the part time option and their GMAT scores are on the order of 660 or so. By choosing their current methodology NYU is doing east coast working professionals a disservice. I wonder what their perspective on it is? They certainly have no problem being selective with their MBA program!

    It's a very interesting thing to sit and think about. They could be ultra competitive and yet they would rather reach a very broad market. That is extremely atypical of not only other private universities but even relative to other NYU programs.

    That being said: I'd really be interested in hearing about some of the topics you've covered in development and the economics/finance portion of the curriculum.

    Great thread, thanks everyone for their helpful insight. Phear, I think there is some confusion regarding NYU certificate and master's program. I believe what BDH is referring to, the graduate certificate, is slightly different than the professional certificates. NYU does offer professional certificates, but based on my research, people looking to obtain a professional certificate take different courses from those in the master's program.

    The graduate certificate students according to NYU, are "students interested in pursuing further graduate study without yet committing to a masterís program." Graduate certificate students take the first six classes together with those enrolled in the masters program. If, after the first six classes, you wish to enroll in the master's program, graduate certificate students who maintain a certain gpa requirement will have to reapply. I have no idea what the admissions requirements are like so I cant speak for that.

    NYU offers the following; professional certificate, graduate certificate and masters degree. Applications required for graduate certificate and masters, and no admission requirements for the professional certificate (basically anyone can apply). I may be wrong, but thats my understanding.

  10. #160
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    In my responses I was only discussing the Graduate Certificate. The other course offered through the SCPS which can lead to the Professional Certificate are not analagous to the Masters program in any way. They are often one or two-day courses and are open to ANYONE. One nice benefit of the Masters program is the ability to take those courses, on a space available basis, for free. But no one should confuse those courses with the actual required coursework for the Graduate Certificate and Masters degree.

    Phear - you ask good questions about why NYU chooses to operate as they do, but I don't have the answers. The Dean of the program holds a monthly breakfast meeting open to students and I may press this question a bit in the future. For me, the program is not so much about the "prestige and luster of the accomplishment" as the opportunity to learn and network in a setting that meets my needs. It's not ideal, but I am confident in my ability to leverage my previous and current academic achievements, my work experience, and my skillset to continue advancing my career.

    As to what has been covered in my classes so far, it would just be too hard to summarize the six courses I've completed in this space. Those courses are:

    - Principles of Real Estate Taxation and Accounting
    - Legal Principles and Practices
    - Real Estate Economics
    - Real Estate Valuation and Analysis
    - Market and Feasibility Analysis
    - Real Estate Finance

    Note that completion of these six courses earns the Graduate Certificate. For the Masters an additional 8 courses are required. More on the curriculum available on the website:

    http://www.scps.nyu.edu/areas-of-stu...uirements.html

  11. #161
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    Quote Originally posted by bdh View post
    In my responses I was only discussing the Graduate Certificate. The other course offered through the SCPS which can lead to the Professional Certificate are not analagous to the Masters program in any way. They are often one or two-day courses and are open to ANYONE. One nice benefit of the Masters program is the ability to take those courses, on a space available basis, for free. But no one should confuse those courses with the actual required coursework for the Graduate Certificate and Masters degree.

    Phear - you ask good questions about why NYU chooses to operate as they do, but I don't have the answers. The Dean of the program holds a monthly breakfast meeting open to students and I may press this question a bit in the future. For me, the program is not so much about the "prestige and luster of the accomplishment" as the opportunity to learn and network in a setting that meets my needs. It's not ideal, but I am confident in my ability to leverage my previous and current academic achievements, my work experience, and my skillset to continue advancing my career.

    As to what has been covered in my classes so far, it would just be too hard to summarize the six courses I've completed in this space. Those courses are:

    - Principles of Real Estate Taxation and Accounting
    - Legal Principles and Practices
    - Real Estate Economics
    - Real Estate Valuation and Analysis
    - Market and Feasibility Analysis
    - Real Estate Finance

    Note that completion of these six courses earns the Graduate Certificate. For the Masters an additional 8 courses are required. More on the curriculum available on the website:

    http://www.scps.nyu.edu/areas-of-stu...uirements.html
    Do you have a reading list from the economics class? What were the more difficult quantitative concepts when it came to valuation and economics?

    - phear

  12. #162
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    No official reading list for the econ class, just handouts and a list of recommended resources. I can email you the syllabus if you like which includes that reading list but it's long and I don't think it's worth posting here. Subject matter covered in the class, by topic:

    Monetary Policy
    Fiscal Policy
    International: Components of U.S. International Accounts
    Trends in Economies of U.S. Major Trading Partners
    International: Trade Patterns; Deficit; Implications
    Demographic Forces in the U.S. and World Economies
    The Dynamics of the Housing Market
    Consumer is King: Variables Influencing Spending Patterns
    The Hotel and Retail Property Sectors in the Economy
    The Office Market in the Economy
    The Multiplier and Economic Impact Analysis
    Business Capital Investment
    Trends, Driving Forces in Urban/Metropolitan Economies (I)
    Trends, Driving Forces in Urban/Metropolitan Economies (II)
    Manufacturing Still Matters: Industrial Real Estate
    Public Policy & Finance: Federal, State & Local Budget Issues
    The Forgotten Economy: Agriculture in the U.S
    Key Economic Theories on Urban and Regional Economics
    Location Analysis
    Cities of Tomorrow
    Current Issues: War, Recession, Recovery, Economic Policy
    The 24-Hour City; Focus on Urban Density
    Summary, Observations, Discussion

    As far as the Valuation class, focus on appraisal process, elements of market analysis, three approaches to valuation (cost, comps, income), with application to all property sectors, etc. Quantitative exercises primarily related to income capitalization analysis, DCF, IRR, NPV, mortgage-equity analysis (Ellwood/Akerson), land/building residual values, and econometric models and forecasting.

    Not sure if that's what you were looking for - email if you want more details.

  13. #163

    nyu

    phear_me are you suggesting a syllabus walk-off?

  14. #164
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    Quote Originally posted by skx172 View post
    phear_me are you suggesting a syllabus walk-off?
    That made me laugh for a good 20 seconds. No, I was just genuinely interested in the type of topics being covered from a quantitative perspective so I could help to guide my own study over summer.

    bdh's list was very helpful. Thanks bro.

  15. #165
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    what are my chances

    I started reading this post yesterday and was intrigued with all of this relevant information that was so readily available on the topic of a very strong passion of mine: REAL ESTATE DEVELOPMENT. A lot of useful detailed information in the beginning of this thread. Although I wasn't too interested in the back and forth quarreling, this thread made me decide to set my aim a little higher for my education in real estate development.

    phr_me do you think I stand a good chance of getting into MIT if don't have adequate work experience, but score very highly on my GMAT and GPA and being a minority?


    Quote Originally posted by phear_me View post
    Today I was accepted to both USC and Columbia.

    Here is my current profile:

    Columbia - Admitted
    Cornell - Waitlisted with interview invite
    MIT - Not yet notified
    USC - Admitted

    - Phear

  16. #166
    Phear, it looks like you've done your homework because there is some great information posted in this thread. So I have a question for you: what's your opinion on a MBA from a decent program with a concentration in Real Estate Development?

    For a long time I would've argued for the MBA as the better option since it would open the door to a wider job market. However, there are an awful lot of schools churning out MBAs these days, and the problem is also compounded by massive layoffs on Wall Street.

    I'm also curious to hear about your career goals.

    Thanks

    -Will

  17. #167
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    Quote Originally posted by young_developer View post
    I started reading this post yesterday and was intrigued with all of this relevant information that was so readily available on the topic of a very strong passion of mine: REAL ESTATE DEVELOPMENT. A lot of useful detailed information in the beginning of this thread. Although I wasn't too interested in the back and forth quarreling, this thread made me decide to set my aim a little higher for my education in real estate development.

    phr_me do you think I stand a good chance of getting into MIT if don't have adequate work experience, but score very highly on my GMAT and GPA and being a minority?
    MIT places a premium on work experience. MIT is of the caliber that even "minority admits" are still very strong candidates. For instance, based on "the grapevine", so this may be inaccurate, our one African American admit this year (that I know of thus far - there may be more) had a GMAT score of 680, phenomenal international experience, and an obvious and impressing willingness to take risks. This person has a slightly higher GMAT score than the average of the program so I wouldn't count on the minority card getting you any breaks with MIT. It has to offer you some sort of advantage but I just don't know how much after seeing numbers like that. I will say that I think my very unique and underprivileged background helped me to gain admission to the program, but I also brought an MBA, good graduate grades, solid work experience, great recommendations, and top Verbal and AWA scores which all compensated for my lackluster GMAT quant performance. After having interacted with many of the students at MIT already I'd have to say that there isn't a single person that isn't impressive, most across multiple dimensions. In fact, thus far, I'm more impressed with the average quality of person at MIT than I was with my USC MBA and I bleed Trojan cardinal and gold so that's saying something.

    Here is a link to the class of 2008 student descriptions: http://web.mit.edu/cre/students/over...tstudents.html

    Why don't you tell me more about your work experience and I'll try to offer the most constructive feedback that I can. Without specific GPA/GMAT/Work Experience it's very hard to give you any quantifiable advice. We can also talk about other programs you may be interested in as well.

  18. #168
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    Quote Originally posted by OfficialPlanner View post
    Phear, it looks like you've done your homework because there is some great information posted in this thread. So I have a question for you: what's your opinion on a MBA from a decent program with a concentration in Real Estate Development?

    For a long time I would've argued for the MBA as the better option since it would open the door to a wider job market. However, there are an awful lot of schools churning out MBAs these days, and the problem is also compounded by massive layoffs on Wall Street.

    I'm also curious to hear about your career goals.

    Thanks

    -Will
    MBA vs MSRED all depends on the quality of the two programs you are contrasting. In general, I would recommend a top 10 MBA over the MSRED programs unless you are absolutely certain you want to work in the field of real estate development. A Harvard/Stanford/Wharton/Columbia MBA is going to get recruited right next to USC/MIT/Columbia/Cornell MSRED's for just about every real estate position out there only they have the option to switch into another field (based on academic credentials - there's more to it than what school you went to) later on if they want to. Once you get out of the top 10 the clear advantage switches back to the top 4 MSRED programs. The next two tiers of MBA programs (10 - 20 and 21 - 50) then has an advantage over the remaining MSRED programs.

    Because the MBA gains you the same access with more career options i still think it is the superior degree for your career. From an educational perspective as it concerns real estate, the MSRED from the M4 (USC, Cornell, Columbia, MIT) blows the MBA out of the water. So too will the MSRED network as the class sizes are much more intimate than the MBA and, obviously, concentrated in real estate so every contact is a useful contact.

    I am obviously biased but I believe the best course of action is to obtain the generalist MBA degree and then specialize with the MSRED. I believe that ...

    MBA, USC, 2008
    MSRED, MIT, 2009

    ... looks stronger on my resume than either degree could on its own merits and I am a more valuable, capable, and holistic person because of the juxtaposition of both of these degrees. I hope that helps you work through the comparison. I'm happy to discuss further if you think it would be useful.



    As for my career goals, I hope this isn't too boring, but you asked:

    If I had everything go my way the following would occur:

    1. I would gain admission to Yale for a dual JD/Phd Economics (JD, juris doctor, is a law degree) and finish in the estimated 4 years. This would make me 31 years old when I was done with school, and I would have 2 Bachelors - philosophy and theology, a JD, an MBA, an MSRED, and a PhD in economics.

    Dr. phear_me, JD, MBA, MSRED; CFA, LEED ... makes me all giggly inside every time I imagine that. And nothing makes me happier than shutting up people who want to call me a professional student with a slam dunk on a development project.

    2. If 1 doesn't happen then I'd like to attend Georgetown for their part time law program so I can obtain a law degree while furthering my career and improving my capital resources.

    3. After MIT I'd like to earn placement with a top real estate finance firm in originations. I'd also be interested in venture capital placements or consulting within the field of real estate.

    4. Once I have enough experience I'd like to be the managing partner on development deals.

    5. Once I have enough money I'd like to form my own development company. It's worth noting that I have done very well for myself investing a modest, but respectable, portfolio and investing is also a passion of mine.

    6. I'd also like to teach classes and impact public policy by working to align economics, sustainable/green development, corporate profits and green legislation.

    My ultimate goal is to impract the intersection of law, economics, business, development, and public policy. That's where all the degrees come together. I'd also like to be VERY wealthy ($100 mil NET LIQUID value) and use my power and influence to improve society (my idealist side) in a long term and economically feasible way (my conservative side). Rather than just feed children in Africa, I'd like to work to improve their education and economy. I place a high degree of value in sustainable efforts. Think Habitat for Humanity.

    All that being said: I'm also going to play it by ear and take the best things that come my way. The right opportunities might completely change what I wind up doing and, in fact, they probably will. I'm only 26 years old so one thing I have going for me is opportunity and time.

    - phear
    Last edited by phear_me; 30 Jun 2008 at 6:34 AM.

  19. #169
    WOW! That's a lot of information.

    I'm currently at a similar crossroads in my life. I have an undergrad degree in Finance and Real Estate (Development) with a minor in Economics. My first thoughts were to go back for my Mastersí and do a dual-degree program such as MBA and Urban Planning. I've decided on doing Planning, but I was considering other options for the MBA. I have considered Law, which I have no interest in except for the amount of money which can be won in Eminent Domain cases. I concluded money however is generally not a good reason to enter a profession. I've also considered Ms. of Financial Mathematics (Odd combination with planning, I know). It goes back to my love of Finance. Then there is the MRED, but it's hard to justify when I could go for an MBA with real estate development concentration. You got to love these life decisions.

    Believe it or not, your story kind of put things into prespective for me. Thanks!

    -William

  20. #170
    With the mixed reviews I have read about the NYU program on here and the expensive cost to complete the program ($60k plus), has anyone looked into the Baruch MS is Real Estate?

    I know Baruch doesn't have the name or rep (good or bad with regards to the MS RE) of NYU, but it is the only other RE program that caters to the part time student in the NY area. In addition the cost to complete the entire program is only around $15k. I also believe it is a newer program, maybe only a couple of years old.

    Admission to the program is more structured than NYUs and they require the GMAT, also there is no certificate program, just the MS degree.

    My ultimate goal is to be an entrepreneurial developer, probably doing most of my development in the southeast. Would it make more sense for me to save my money and go to Baruch? I really think for what I want to do networking with NYC big wigs isn't as important as just learning the information, but I appreciate if anyone thinks otherwise.

    Thanks
    Ricky Slade: Listen to me, I intentionally make this gun look that way because I am smart.

    MADE

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    So it took me like a couple hours to read this thread...great info and thanks to all who took the time to get this info out there.

    I am currently working in non-RE asset management and am intrigued by RE. I'm currently working on the CFA program and after that's done (hopefully in the next 2 years or so) I'd like to try to break in to the RE field by pursuing a masters.

    I was hoping to get some feedback on a couple of questions -

    1. Since I don't have any industry experience, what are the job prospects if I go to NYU or Columbia (assuming I can get in)?

    2. To that end, would going to Columbia and getting an internship be a good way to break in? I like the idea of going part time to NYU but wouldn't be able to gain any related work experience that way. I also like the idea of completing the whole program in a year.

    3. I know Columbia's focus is on development. I'm more interested in the investment/finance side than the development side at this point, but I want to leave as many options open as possible. Would it be easier to move from development to investment/finance than the converse (keep in mind that by then I would have the CFA designation as well)? Could I get the MSRED @ Columbia and get an investment job rather than going into development?
    Last edited by orion408; 09 Jul 2008 at 4:09 PM. Reason: typo

  22. #172
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    Quote Originally posted by orion408 View post
    So it took me like a couple hours to read this thread...great info and thanks to all who took the time to get this info out there.

    I am currently working in non-RE asset management and am intrigued by RE. I'm currently working on the CFA program and after that's done (hopefully in the next 2 years or so) I'd like to try to break in to the RE field by pursuing a masters.

    I was hoping to get some feedback on a couple of questions -

    1. Since I don't have any industry experience, what are the job prospects if I go to NYU or Columbia (assuming I can get in)?

    2. To that end, would going to Columbia and getting an internship be a good way to break in? I like the idea of going part time to NYU but wouldn't be able to gain any related work experience that way. I also like the idea of completing the whole program in a year.

    3. I know Columbia's focus is on development. I'm more interested in the investment/finance side than the development side at this point, but I want to leave as many options open as possible. Would it be easier to move from development to investment/finance than the converse (keep in mind that by then I would have the CFA designation as well)? Could I get the MSRED @ Columbia and get an investment job rather than going into development?
    A1: Before you worry about this too much I think that you should first consider that, in all likelihood you are going to have a very difficult time gaining admission to the M4 without a strong real estate specific resume. Work Experience is a critical component in the evaluation of USC, Cornell, and MIT all of which have a slew of applicants with top notch academic and testing credentials which accompany their work experience and while Columbia eschews the value of tests relative to the other programs they do so while placing an even heavier burden of industry experience (although they do make exceptions for strong demonstration of certain personality traits and/or exemplary academic credentials) on the potential applicant.

    Columbia is already plagued with grumblings over placement and so as a result of my best estimation I would conclude that no work experience, should you indeed gain admission to Columbia, would make finding upper tiered placement difficult. You'd be much better off at the very strong placing programs (USC, MIT, Cornell) but it is highly unlikely that you will gain placement at any of these schools without work experience. Cornell is most likely to take someone without experience and its curriculum is designed to supplement some of the basics of business and so I think it would be your best bet of the top programs rather than Columbia.

    A2: NYU's primary value is for people who intend to stay within their current company. Adding NYU to your resume without work experience would not, in my opinion, be the best use of that program. Columbia would definitely be preferable to NYU in this regard although I have to once again emphasize that these programs are designed for professionals wishing to return to school to expand their resume and gain an advanced understanding in light of their experience. Doing an internship is a great idea but since Columbia is a one year program I'm not sure that you would be doing a summer internship so much as just "working for free". There is a reason RE work experience is so highly valued within these programs.

    A3: If you want to go into finance then MIT is the best option followed by an Investment Banking concentration at Cornell. USC and Columbia are strongly development focused and don't offer the range that Cornell and MIT do (although USC offers a slew of emphasis, none of them are aimed at finance). While the Stern MBA at NYU has a phenomenal finance program their MSRE program does not.

    One more point: You have asset management experience and are on the CFA path and you very well may be able to parlay that experience into a real estate related career but what is your compelling case for making the switch? It sounds to me like you should be getting an MBA rather than an MSRED given your particular set of interests. A top 15 MBA will gain you access to plenty of top notch RE finance firms (Morgan, Lehman, AIG, JLL, Hancock etc) and offer additional flexibility. I'd really be interested in hearing why you wish to pursue the MSRED over the MBA.

    I hope some of that helps you get things sorted.

    - phear

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    Thanks for the thoughtful and insightful comments, phear.

    I agree with your reasoning and believe that an MBA probably makes the most sense in my case as I have no relevant experience. It's tempting to go for a master's in RE just because it's more focused and I feel that the MBA would be redundant as far as finance and accounting. Also I like the idea of a one year program versus 2 for the MBA.

    Thanks again.

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    Quote Originally posted by orion408 View post
    Thanks for the thoughtful and insightful comments, phear.

    I agree with your reasoning and believe that an MBA probably makes the most sense in my case as I have no relevant experience. It's tempting to go for a master's in RE just because it's more focused and I feel that the MBA would be redundant as far as finance and accounting. Also I like the idea of a one year program versus 2 for the MBA.

    Thanks again.
    Have you thought about the Langone part time program at Stern? That might help alleviate your time concerns.

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    Quote Originally posted by phear_me View post
    Have you thought about the Langone part time program at Stern? That might help alleviate your time concerns.
    I have, but I think that if I'm going to go for an MBA it would most likely be full time. This seems to contradict my earlier statement that time was an issue but I've spoken to a lot of people who say that full time is the way to go just to gain access to networking opportunities.

    I've also heard that NYU's part time program, while solid academically, is a real let-down as far as recruiting/networking because the PT students are not allowed to attend the FT events. I've heard other PT programs are better in that respect but I don't want to leave NY.

    In any case, I still have a while to weigh my options. My plan is to knock out the CFA over the next 2 years or so and then consider b-school if I feel like it could open doors for me. I'm working at a great place for now, but I don't plan on staying here forever and want to start mapping out some options for down the road. I'd love to get my foot in the door as a REIT analyst after I get my charter but there are other areas that interest me as well.

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