Graduate real estate development programs

[jaruss01]

Hello all,

It is very comforting to find this discussion, as it has been quite difficult to extract info from admission offices.

For those alumni, or students enrolled in an MSRED program:

As an architect (1 yr exp), I have a strong interest in development and green building. From my understanding, Columbia seems to be the best fit and I anticipate to apply for the Fall 2009 MSRED program. I am one of the few of my friends and fellow classmates that is taking this route as an architect transitioning into development. Columbia is my top choice, as the development program is architecturally driven. Could you please help give me feedback for my chances of acceptance.

PROS
1. Pre-college Cornell Arch' Summer Session
2. Syracuse Univ SOA '07 - 5 year B.Arch program (high rank program)
3. 1 year thesis project on NYC - 125th St. Development Proposal. Full feasibility and zoning analysis with 6 foot illuminated plexi mapping model.
4. Employed in big 10 firm in NYC (1+ year experience)
5. First employee in firm promoted to Project Architect
6. LEED Accredited

CONS
1. NO GMAT (although, no longer req. @ Columbia MSRED)
2. NO professional experience in RE. Nor have ever taken a class in RE or Finance
3. Current firm is NOT development driven
4. Undergrad GPA is shy of 3.0 (due to rough first year, but have received Dean's List)

(Yes, I know this is personal, but I am looking for personal feedback).

I am concerned that GPA and lack of experience could hold me back. Although I am extremely motived, LEED Accredited and have a great portfolio/resume. Considering the largest majority of those accepted into Columbia MSRED are B. Arch graduates, I am hoping for the best.

Any advice would be highly appreciated!

[buzz2007]

Thank you all for this extremely helpful discussion on this real estate development programs.

I am currently working towards my MCP at Penn and planning to puruse a PhD after that. We have this concetration: urban development with real estate certificate program.

As a PhD student, can I take real estate classes in Wharton and focus on real estate development? How different this approach might be from MRED program?

Any input is much appreciated.

[phear_me]

Hello all,

It is very comforting to find this discussion, as it has been quite difficult to extract info from admission offices.

For those alumni, or students enrolled in an MSRED program:

As an architect (1 yr exp), I have a strong interest in development and green building. From my understanding, Columbia seems to be the best fit and I anticipate to apply for the Fall 2009 MSRED program. I am one of the few of my friends and fellow classmates that is taking this route as an architect transitioning into development. Columbia is my top choice, as the development program is architecturally driven. Could you please help give me feedback for my chances of acceptance.

PROS
1. Pre-college Cornell Arch' Summer Session
2. Syracuse Univ SOA '07 - 5 year B.Arch program (high rank program)
3. 1 year thesis project on NYC - 125th St. Development Proposal. Full feasibility and zoning analysis with 6 foot illuminated plexi mapping model.
4. Employed in big 10 firm in NYC (1+ year experience)
5. First employee in firm promoted to Project Architect
6. LEED Accredited

CONS
1. NO GMAT (although, no longer req. @ Columbia MSRED)
2. NO professional experience in RE. Nor have ever taken a class in RE or Finance
3. Current firm is NOT development driven
4. Undergrad GPA is shy of 3.0 (due to rough first year, but have received Dean's List)

(Yes, I know this is personal, but I am looking for personal feedback).

I am concerned that GPA and lack of experience could hold me back. Although I am extremely motived, LEED Accredited and have a great portfolio/resume. Considering the largest majority of those accepted into Columbia MSRED are B. Arch graduates, I am hoping for the best.

Any advice would be highly appreciated!

1. Please clarify how you are going to avoid the GMAT with Columbia when you graduted in 2007: GMAT/GRE is required for anyone less than 3 years out of undergrad)

2. You will need to do very well on the GMAT to compensate for a sub 3.0 GPA

3. LEED cretification isn't going to get you much credit. It is a pretty easy thing to get - taking only a few weekends of study at most.

4. Your best bet will be to have people connected with the program write you LOR's. You sound like you're off to a great start in your career but it may be a few years too early for Columbia and, again, you will need a GMAT/GRE score given your stated timeline.

5. Columbia has an attitude preference for entrepreneurs and (reasonably) aggressive risk takers so try to portray that in your essays.

6. Any letters of recommendation you can get from people affiliated with the program will go a very long way.

Thank you all for this extremely helpful discussion on this real estate development programs.

I am currently working towards my MCP at Penn and planning to puruse a PhD after that. We have this concetration: urban development with real estate certificate program.

As a PhD student, can I take real estate classes in Wharton and focus on real estate development? How different this approach might be from MRED program?

Any input is much appreciated.

Real Estate Certificate programs hardly seem to be the sort of thing a PhD would want to do. Certificate programs aren't actual degrees - they are simply certificates of completion. Usually the certificate classes take a few days to a few months but are nowhere near the rigor of an actual degree. Certificate programs can provide invaluable learning opportunities but they are relatively useless on a resume.

Take this with a grain of salt as my knowledge of MSRED programs is far more vast than my awareness of real estate PhD's, but if you want to do a PhD in Real Estate Development my first thought is that an Economics PhD from MIT would be your best bet in conjunction with the Center for Real Estate with Geltner or Wheaton as your faculty advisor. MIT is one of the few places that actually caters to a real estate PhD. Another place to look is the University of Wisconsin - Madison - as their reputation for real estate is stellar. I'm not sure UPenn is the right place, but perhaps others may know more.

[jaruss01]

Thanks for your advice.

1. For Fall 2009 admissions the GMAT/GRE is NO longer required for Columbia. (I have confirmed this with admissions office. Their website was just updated)

2. I have also seen on this forum that only the last two years of your transcript are the most meaningful, so perhaps the GPA will not be a large issue.
Can anyone confirm this??

3. Anyone know of the avergage years of experience for those entering Columbia MsRED? I was under the impression that some can go directly after their B. Arch.

4. As mentioned, I am the first in my graduating class to make this transition into RED, so I have no connections for those alumni. Any idea of how I could go about obtaining LORs with those in a related field of RED?

I was hoping to get LORs from my B.Arch Dean, as well as two supervisors at my current firm. Do LORs go a long way?

(Right now I am banking on my Undergraduate program at 'Cuse, as well as a brief portfolio of my development driven thesis)


To sum this up, does anyone have a good understanding of how Columbia admissions is weighed in terms of experience VS GPA VS undergrad, etc. etc. They will not give me a clear answer on this- not like I would expect them to.

[jaruss01]

sorry to beat a dead horse. but if anyone does have any informative feedback, that would be great!

[phear_me]

I'll take another crack at it ...

Thanks for your advice.

1. For Fall 2009 admissions the GMAT/GRE is NO longer required for Columbia. (I have confirmed this with admissions office. Their website was just updated)

This is, in all likelihood, going to make the Columbia less competitive going forward.

2. I have also seen on this forum that only the last two years of your transcript are the most meaningful, so perhaps the GPA will not be a large issue.
Can anyone confirm this??

In general, there is a belief that grades that start low and steadily improve are preferable to grades that start high and decline. However, your general attitude for Columbia is all wrong. You sound like someone fresh out of undergrad looking to get into an academic setting. This is a professional degree and Columbia, more than any other program, values attitude. Given the increasing lack of emphasis on grades/test scores attitude and experience are going to be the biggest factors for admission to Columbia. Stressing over your GPA instead of what you've ACTUALLY DONE is, in my humble opinion, a mistake. I would suggest you very quickly address how your GPA improved as your passion for real estate grew, or something like that, but keep it very brief and move on.

3. Anyone know of the avergage years of experience for those entering Columbia MsRED? I was under the impression that some can go directly after their B. Arch.

I do know of a couple people who have entered the program directly from undergrad, and this seems most prevalent for people who also did their undergrad at Columbia, but by and large you tend to see people with an average of about 6 years of work experience.

4. As mentioned, I am the first in my graduating class to make this transition into RED, so I have no connections for those alumni. Any idea of how I could go about obtaining LORs with those in a related field of RED?

I was hoping to get LORs from my B.Arch Dean, as well as two supervisors at my current firm. Do LORs go a long way?

I think that this is the correct approach given your circumstances.

(Right now I am banking on my Undergraduate program at 'Cuse, as well as a brief portfolio of my development driven thesis)

I wouldn't bank on the undergrad program at all. You will have classmates coming from significantly more impressive programs from similar and different backgrounds. Instead, bank on the fact that you are young, driven, passionate, and willing to take risks when a good opportunity presents itself. The emphasis should be on what you've already done and what you are going to do once you have the MSRED in your arsenal.

To sum this up, does anyone have a good understanding of how Columbia admissions is weighed in terms of experience VS GPA VS undergrad, etc. etc. They will not give me a clear answer on this- not like I would expect them to.

Columbia admissions under Michael Buckley is something of a mystery. I've shared with you EXACTLY what I was told from Mr. Buckley directly as well as some of the inferences I've drawn from interacting with him. As someone who was admitted to the program I would say that experience is the primary factor, with attitude next (as expressed by your essay), letters of recommendation third and GPA last. But without test scores each factor begins to take on more weight so while there may be more important factors it's likely that no factor is unimportant. Undergrad institution plays a much lessor role than many people would like to think, but of course it never hurts to have done your u/g at an IVY or IVY peer (Stanford, MIT, Cal Tech, Duke etc). I think it would be a mistake to come across as thinking that your Syracuse degree somehow gives you an edge. It really doesn't. Working at a top firm might though. Your drive, passion, and energy will as well, presuming you can demonstrate that in your essay. Make sure to spin your youth as an advantage because your lack of work experience is very likely to hamper your efforts.

As someone who matriculated into an MBA program at a very young age (24) I know what it's like to fight the uphill battle for early admission. It's doable, but it's definitely an uphill battle.

Good Luck.

[jaruss01]

Phear, thanks for getting back to me.

Sorry I made it seem as though I was overly emphasizing on grades, but it was only because is is my most major concern with admissions.

I have not focused on the my positive attributes in this thread, because, well, I dont need feedback for things I certain about. I plan on emphasizing on my promotion and responsibilites at work, as well as my ambitious goals for the field of development.

So I am focusing on GPA in this discussion because it is my worst trait. Does not necessarily mean I would go out of my way to mention this in my admission letters. NO way. Just wanted to see others opinions on the extent of a drawback my negative attributes would be in the admissions process.

Phear, I could see where you get this impression of a me, as a young person focused on grades and academic environment. Also, I am 24 as well (my B.Arch is a rigorous 172 cr. 5 year program). However, I completely plan on focusing more on my professional achievements, not discussing my less than stellar grades from undergrad.

As I get this quite a bit... Syracuse ARCHITECTURE is ranked higher than most Ivy league programs. Please do not associate this program with Syracuse general studies, which are average at best. When I graduated in 07', the program was ranked #4 in the nation. Considering Columbia MsRED two largest enrollment percentages are 18% Finance, 15% Architecture- then yes, I think I should bank on the fact that I graduated from #4 ranked school. Sorry if that sounded pretentious, just most do not realize the stature of the the Syracuse architecture program.

Phear, thanks again. You have been a real help to people in this forum. As I have also seen that you post on BusinessWeek as well.

[jaruss01]

^^ apologize for a few wording errors. I was multi-tasking.

[Heath Binder]

In response to Heath Binder, from Heath Binder
Someone is using my name as a cover to complain about the NYU program. I was student body president when I was there a couple of years ago. Anyway, since 13,000+ people have viewed this person's message, let me just state, for the record, this a) wasn't me, and b) is - I think - pretty clearly the product of someone who hasn't had the best experience at NYU.

If anyone ever has questions about the program, I am always happy to give my opinions on it. Of course, it's not a perfect program - that said, I learned a lot and met a lot of great people when I was there, and it was a great 2.5 years of my life.

Heath Binder (the real one)

[RU_Planning]

Someone is using my name as a cover to complain about the NYU program. I was student body president when I was there a couple of years ago. Anyway, since 13,000+ people have viewed this person's message, let me just state, for the record, this a) wasn't me, and b) is - I think - pretty clearly the product of someone who hasn't had the best experience at NYU.

If anyone ever has questions about the program, I am always happy to give my opinions on it. Of course, it's not a perfect program - that said, I learned a lot and met a lot of great people when I was there, and it was a great 2.5 years of my life.

Heath Binder (the real one)

Heath,

Thanks for clearing up that information posted in your name earlier, I think it is important for accurate information to be posted.

I would like to get into real estate development, not real estate finance, would the NYU program be a waste of time and money for me? I have a Masters in City & Regional Planning from Rutgers and have worked in the field of planning for 5 years. I have a good background on the development process from my planning experience, but am very limited in the realm of finance.

In all honesty my first choice would be Columbia's MSRED due to its concentration on Development and entrepreneurship, but I am not sure if it is feasible for someone in my position to not work for a year. I just want to know, as best I can, that if I were to enroll in the NYU program that I would be positioning myself to get a job in development.

I'm not so worried about the classroom environment, as I know that it is what you make of it. My main concern is job placement in development after the program.

Any other information you could share would also be greatly appreciated.

Thanks,

Will

[phear_me]

Someone is using my name as a cover to complain about the NYU program. I was student body president when I was there a couple of years ago. Anyway, since 13,000+ people have viewed this person's message, let me just state, for the record, this a) wasn't me, and b) is - I think - pretty clearly the product of someone who hasn't had the best experience at NYU.

If anyone ever has questions about the program, I am always happy to give my opinions on it. Of course, it's not a perfect program - that said, I learned a lot and met a lot of great people when I was there, and it was a great 2.5 years of my life.

Heath Binder (the real one)

Heath,

Would it be safe to assume that this person was in the program that wanted to remain ananymous since they knew your name or could they have gotten it from the NYU website somehow? You might consider contacting the mods so they can either:

A) Delete the post
B) More preferably, modify that person's user name

I haven't had the the best interaction with NYU students but no one deserves to have statements attributed to them that they didn't make. That's just cowardly.

- phear

[Gedunker]

Heath,

Would it be safe to assume that this person was in the program that wanted to remain ananymous since they knew your name or could they have gotten it from the NYU website somehow? You might consider contacting the mods so they can either:

A) Delete the post
B) More preferably, modify that person's user name

I haven't had the the best interaction with NYU students but no one deserves to have statements attributed to them that they didn't make. That's just cowardly.

- phear

(Gedunker) The original posts have been deleted from the thread although we maintain copies of them. Appropriate actions have been taken as well, and we reserve the right to take further action as the situation warrants.

[phear_me]

I just wanted to applaud the efforts of the moderators. As someone who's been accused of amassing false identities and/or saying things that I did not I know how frustrating it can feel to be targeted that way. It would be rather interesting if the moderators "told on" some of the people who employ such tactics as I suspect that the accusers are frequently the perpetrators themselves.

There are a lot of NYU MSRED admits and hopefuls in these forums so I'm confident in stating that they will appreciate your first hand experience and input.

Welcome to the discussion Heath. I'm glad your name was cleared.

- phear

[bdh]

[QUOTE=RU_Planning;446802]Heath,

I would like to get into real estate development, not real estate finance, would the NYU program be a waste of time and money for me? I have a Masters in City & Regional Planning from Rutgers and have worked in the field of planning for 5 years. I have a good background on the development process from my planning experience, but am very limited in the realm of finance.

Will -

I also entered the NYU program with a background in planning and an interest in development. I chose NYU specifically because of the ability to focus on finance, as I felt like my varied experience in planning already provided a solid background on the regulatory and design aspects of development. Columbia, to me, felt like it would be duplicating some of my previous education and experience, where NYU seemed like it would augment that previous education and experience. I, like you, also found a part-time program to be more realistic given my work/family/financial commitments.

My experience both looking for work and in the program suggests to me that developers appreciate someone with some planning experience, but they demand someone with solid financial analysis skills. While entitlements and design can make or break a project, they aren't expecting someone at the Analyst or Associate level to make those calls. They are expecting you to be able to work your way around an Excel or Argus model, and to understand the basic concepts of how a deal comes together and how to decide whether or not it makes financial sense. For those reasons, I think it's hard for someone with a planning background to find a position in a development firm without some demonstration of those financial abilities. Any of the schools discussed on this list can help you do that. Having your planning background can help to distinguish you from the other graduates when it comes to actual hiring decisions. And the relationships you build through whatever program you attend will likely have as much to do with what types of job opportunities you have as anything you learn in the program.

Hope this helps. If you have more specific questions feel free to contact me.

On a side note, glad to see the Heath Binder situation being addressed.

[newdir]

I stumbled onto this forum after searching for some urban planning programs. Thanks to everyone, I've learned a great deal from reading the threads. I have an architecture degree with 4 years of experience in construction documents. I've drafted cds for various public projects and dabbled in tenant improvement projects for a retail company. I have more interest in becoming a developer than an architect at this point. Lacking a business degree, I have been applying to the local mba programs in los angeles. Am I glad to have found this forum! I really want to just focus on real estate development! I have no interest in going into accounting or marketing, etc. I am glad to have found like minded people!

My only concern is; how stable is the real estate development industry? If I am not planning to go out on my own in the near future, can I make a stable wage working for a real estate companies? The real estate industry is so vast and includes so many different types of positions. Exactly, what kind of positions are available? I would prefer not to end up in a property management company or a small developer's office. Ahthough, the only developers I know of are people who came from construction; the hard way.

I'm curious to know what kind of experience is the most important towards becoming a developer. Is it better to start off at a small or large company? Can you specialize in building types or do you need to be a generalist? Do employers, investors, or banks care whether you have an MBA or MSRED? The MSRED is not as versatile as an MBA. This is a factor that concerns me in weighing one over the other.

If somebody has any knowledge or opinion to share, I'd be grateful. Either way, I've learned a great deal so far. Thanks.

[newdir]

What is the value of a MSRED or MBA for a career in real estate?


I can understand the merits of an advanced degree for advancement in one's career. But from my understanding of the world of real estate, everyone needs to start at the bottom.

Real estate sales, commercial brokerage, or property management seem to be the stepping stones to bigger and better positions like: corporate real estate developer or real estate developer. To be a prop. manager, broker, or real estate agent; you need a license or certificate at most and network diligently for leads. An MBA or MSRED would be overkill.

I think an advanced degree or experience in accounting or finance is probably necessary for people interested in becoming a financial analyst or asset manager.
This is not where my interest lies.

However, for those with backgrounds in architecture, engineering, planning; figuring out how to break into real estate or what position we would like to work up to seems unclear. Unless you are going to go out on your own any time soon, it seems to me you need to pick a track.

I think I would be interested in working as a site acquistion specialist; but how many of these jobs are there? What experience do you need? I don't quite have enough architecture/project management experience to transition into a land development/home builder project manager position.

Also, if you choose to get the advanced degree, is a MSRED better than an MBA with focus in real estate or finance? The MBA may be overkill for most real estate positions. How effective is an MSRED program?

Does anyone have anything to add to these thoughts?

[newacct231236]

Interest in real estate degrees speeds up
By Kerri Linden

Housing prices in many domestic markets may be cooling, but interest in real estate education remains hot. An industry that has always been welcoming of dilettantes and the ladies-who-lunch set is maturing and is creating demands for more trained professionals.

An informal survey of both undergraduate and graduate real estate university programs around the country reveals that despite a softening in many housing markets, interest from students is growing slightly, and the real estate profession is taking heed.

"It's become a destination career," said Esther Muller, co-founder of New York City's Real Estate Academy. "People are beginning to plan to go into real estate, gaining master's degrees and taking more courses. There's a trend toward making real estate a very serious, respectable profession."

About 5 percent of undergraduate students at Wharton, the business school at the University of Pennsylvania, choose to concentrate on real estate. An in-house survey done in 2007 shows that among those, 88.5 percent were employed full time upon graduation, with an average salary of $59,960.

The salary was virtually the same for undergrads focusing on real estate at the Stern School of Business at New York University.

According to officials at Wharton's career services office, many of its real estate alums, both undergraduates and graduate students alike, end up in New York City, where they work on the financial side of the business.

The magazine U.S. News & World Report ranks real estate programs around the country, focusing mainly on undergraduate studies. According to the magazine's survey, the top three university-level real estate programs in the country are at Wharton, the University of Wisconsin at Madison, and the Terry College of Business at the University of Georgia.

New York University's Stern School comes in fourth.

On the graduate level, meanwhile, there are now about 35 stand-alone programs in real estate studies. NYU currently has about 440 students enrolled in its Masters of Real Estate program, and another 170 studying for a graduate certificate in Real Estate. Many of these students attend part time while holding down jobs within the industry.

According to university officials, admittance to these programs is quite competitive. At MIT, the real estate program admits fewer than 40 students each year, out of an applicant pool of about 150; many students already have six to eight years of experience in the field.

The selectivity reflects the fact that real estate jobs can be even more lucrative with a master's-level education.

Surveys of MIT alumni indicate that the degree helps them improve their salary by about 25 to 30 percent, to about $100,000, within a year of graduation.

A survey of the past three years' worth of students graduating with a master's degree from NYU's Real Estate Institute, an institution separate from the Stern School of Business, indicated an average salary of about $138,000.

Among the graduate-level real estate programs, based on factors like rigorous admittance standards, the credentials of professors and post-graduation salaries, the Massachusetts Institute of Technology, Cornell and NYU are considered leaders.

The programs emphasize that they can cover real estate better than an MBA with a stronger focus. "The real estate field is so rich today, and we're creating new target slots to develop in," said Jack Nyman, director of the Steven L. Newman Real Estate Institute at Baruch College. (The Steven L. Newman Institute offers certificates in real estate as part of Baruch's continuing education program.) "The field offers almost limitless opportunities for learning, creativity and opportunity."

That view is echoed by officials at MIT.

"We tell prospective students that if they're interested in business, then they should get an MBA, because it's more flexible, but if they want a high-powered and rigorous grounding in real estate, they should come to MIT," said Marion Cunningham, managing director of the program. "We train people to understand the real estate industry."

While each of these programs concentrates on fundamentals like finance, asset management and development, differences emerge. For instance, Baruch and NYU have strong ties with the city's development community, and their graduates are snapped up by firms based in New York.

An interesting feature of the MIT program is its international outlook. Recent class outings have included trips to the Middle East and Asia; while many students remain in the U.S. post-graduation, graduates are often offered jobs by foreign developers.

"Most real estate development right now is happening outside the United States, and in some places in Asia, whole cities are being built," said Cunningham. "It's not only about seeing opportunities abroad, but how the scale of projects abroad is impacting the cost of materials and development in the U.S."

While few real estate development firms are big enough to have regular yearly recruiting drives, when they seek to hire, an increasing number of firms are turning to universities for talent. This is seen as a victory for schools that invested in specialized concentrations in real estate, proof that they are beginning to yield results.

"In a field like sustainability, the compensation is just starting, but it will be worth more in time," said Nyman. "Real estate always will have deals; there's always a need for expertise. The better you are, the more you're going to make: That's an old adage that still remains true."

[newdir]

Thanks for the article. I agree with the article to the extent I believe more people are pursuing real estate as an occupation. I also know many people just don't have the opportunity to follow through with their ideas or plans. As a person pursuing a path beyond architecture, I'm just beginning to realize there is a job market for real estate professionals serious about developing projects.

I'm fortunate to be here in California and will apply to the USC MRED program. I know I want to develop affordable housing or mixed use buildings with a focus on sustainable systems. I've always had an interest in homes and sustainable and passive systems.

Do you have career plans or goals post graduation or are you already working in the industry?

[Archdevil]

Hi all,
I would appreciate any advice that anyone has to offer. I currently live in Phoenix and work as an intern architect. I am beginning to prepare for applications to MSRED programs on the East Coast. I need to get out of the desert and NYC is my goal. My desire to study in an urban context in a city with significant history leaves me with Columbia, NYU, Harvard, MIT and University of Maryland for MRED programs. I am not considering USC or ASU because I plan to move regardless.

My undergraduate degree is in architecture from ASU, (3.46 gpa). I have 6 years of construction/construction management experience before my undergraduate studies and by the time I apply I will have about 4 years post graduate experience in an architecture office. I should be able to obtain letters from a couple of high profile professors and my current employer. My ideal career is to develop/design urban projects. My ideal school is Columbia. I really don't know what my odds are of being accepted but it is my goal. The question I have for everyone is this: What kinds of things should I be doing now to strengthen myself as a candidate? Should I be doing more volunteer work? Gaining more titles i.e. LEED accreditation? Should I consider architectural registration first? How can I “beef up” my resume for these schools?

Thanks, any information or advice is appreciated

[phear_me]

Hi all,
I would appreciate any advice that anyone has to offer. I currently live in Phoenix and work as an intern architect. I am beginning to prepare for applications to MSRED programs on the East Coast. I need to get out of the desert and NYC is my goal. My desire to study in an urban context in a city with significant history leaves me with Columbia, NYU, Harvard, MIT and University of Maryland for MRED programs. I am not considering USC or ASU because I plan to move regardless.

My undergraduate degree is in architecture from ASU, (3.46 gpa). I have 6 years of construction/construction management experience before my undergraduate studies and by the time I apply I will have about 4 years post graduate experience in an architecture office. I should be able to obtain letters from a couple of high profile professors and my current employer. My ideal career is to develop/design urban projects. My ideal school is Columbia. I really don't know what my odds are of being accepted but it is my goal. The question I have for everyone is this: What kinds of things should I be doing now to strengthen myself as a candidate? Should I be doing more volunteer work? Gaining more titles i.e. LEED accreditation? Should I consider architectural registration first? How can I “beef up” my resume for these schools?

Thanks, any information or advice is appreciated

Make sure you join the ULI young leaders program and volunteer for a few events. If you can join the ULY young leaders executive committee for your area that would be very helpful as well. Obtaining LEED certification, and any other titles/certs can only help you. If at all possible demonstrate your sincere interest and try to get some face time at an open house advice.

The best thing you can do to help yourself at Columbia is to demonstrate an aggressive entrepreneurial spirit and obtain a letter of recommendation from an alumnus.

For MIT and Harvard I'd add the additional advice that you ought to target 680 for the GMAT and 1400 for the GRE as both schools typically have very competitive applicants in terms of test scores. I can't speak for Harvard, but I can say that MIT will at times accept lower test scores from applicants that can demonstrate excellence in other ways, although you still probably need to break 600.

This is going to irk quite a few people and I don't want to rehash the same old argument but the acceptance rate for NYU is so high that given your work experience and GPA I'd say that you're a shoe in. Given that you're a shoe in for NYU I wouldn't bother applying to Maryland as the NYU program is the gatekeeper between the stellar programs and the bottomfeeders / new but unproven up and comers.

This is just my opinion - there are others. Synthesize the best advice and formulate your opinion.

Good Luck!

[Archdevil]

Thanks, phear_me. I appreciate the advice.

One of my professors that I plan to ask is a Columbia alumnus and very well respected, I haven’t asked yet but I don't see them turning me down. I have already been offered a letter from another professor who is very well respected nationally in the architecture field. My employer is also a well known local architect. So I think I will be ok on the letters.

Columbia is my first choice and I would fall back on NYU but I am concerned about the differences of the programs. Columbia's program is through the school of architecture and seems more "hands on" and geared toward people who want to get buildings built and make things happen. NYU seems more financed based with less emphasis on development. It is called a Masters in Real Estate with an "emphasis" on development. It just seems that I would be more bogged down with real estate principals etc when I am really only interested in the development process. As an architect I want to build buildings not become a realtor. I think you understand what I am saying. What are your thoughts?

Harvard and MIT seem more like Columbia but they are also much smaller programs and much harder to get into. I will apply to them but I'm not counting on being accepted to either of them unless I really score well on the GMAT.

[SonnyC79]

Good evening all,

I have spent the evening doing research and came upon this very informative thread about these various graduate programs in real estate. I would like to outline my situation and hopefully get some insight into my options and urgently necessary decisions.

I attended the University of Texas @ Austin and graduated with a Communications degree in 2005. I did not take any math courses in college, as I was able to test out of any of the required courses prior to starting school. This means that I have now not taken a math class since high school in 2001. I also did not take any business/finance/economics/etc courses in college. I am merely presenting this info to fully illustrate points that are to come.

After college, I found myself working in the title industry for a large U.S. homebuilder (D.R. Horton Homes). I stayed there for about a year and a half before being laid off. This event took me to Dallas to work for a company than manages the property preservation of foreclosed properties for banks. As I researched the NYU graduate program (as hotly debated here on the board), I found that they did indeed have a requirement for 2 years of work experience in a related field, as well as not requiring the GRE/GMAT as it had been over 2 years since I graduated from UT. I factored in my work experience with D.R. Horton Homes and this other real estate (property preservation) company and believed that these were considered "related fields." Well, it turns out that NYU believed that to be true, as well, as I was accepted into the Graduate Certificate program (more on that in a bit). I must admit, however, that these two jobs were pretty much entry-level type jobs where I did not actually learn a ton about the actual real estate industry world and did not involve any type of development/planning education or experience at all.

Now, after reading about so many of your experiences here on the boards, it seems that nearly everyone is coming from a planning or finance background and are looking to further their education/experience/position within those fields. I have to admit, however, that I am relatively unfamiliar with any of the general ideas/practices/businesses that make up these types of careers. I was hoping to gain the insight and education about the real estate world from the program itself, as I clearly do not have the same industry background that many of you do. After reading many of the posts here, I am just developing some serious cold feet about my expectations of the program. It seems that I may not be ready nor have the educational background and/or actual relevant work experience to make the most of the program. I am nervous that without this sturdy basis of knowledge (no business/math courses, iffy work experience), I have a good chance of being far behind many of my fellow students in the program. This scares me, as I was only admitted into the Graduate Certificate program, and there are some pretty steep GPA requirements if I would like to then proceed into the full master's degree program. I am concerned that if I do not do well enough to get into the master's program, the certificate alone may not produce the kind of results to justify going into possibly $30k+ in debt from student loans. Does anyone have any information regarding how much obtaining a graduate certificate (particularly from NYU?) helps in getting someone a better job, salary, position, etc?

Now, this lengthy post may have done something to confirm phear_me's many posts about the acceptance rate of NYU's graduate program(s)...at least the certificate program. I did not have to submit a GRE score; I am finding that my work experience probably has done nothing to prepare me for this program; and my undergraduate coursework is lacking in relevent (and helpful) preparatory information. Granted, I was only admitted into the certificate program, but I am beginning to wonder if I am truly prepared for this thing.

Sorry for the really long post. I appreciate everyone's time in reading the information. Please let me know if you have any questions from me or can possibly provide me with any additional information or advice. Thanks!

[phear_me]

Good evening all,

I have spent the evening doing research and came upon this very informative thread about these various graduate programs in real estate. I would like to outline my situation and hopefully get some insight into my options and urgently necessary decisions.

I attended the University of Texas @ Austin and graduated with a Communications degree in 2005. I did not take any math courses in college, as I was able to test out of any of the required courses prior to starting school. This means that I have now not taken a math class since high school in 2001. I also did not take any business/finance/economics/etc courses in college. I am merely presenting this info to fully illustrate points that are to come.

After college, I found myself working in the title industry for a large U.S. homebuilder (D.R. Horton Homes). I stayed there for about a year and a half before being laid off. This event took me to Dallas to work for a company than manages the property preservation of foreclosed properties for banks. As I researched the NYU graduate program (as hotly debated here on the board), I found that they did indeed have a requirement for 2 years of work experience in a related field, as well as not requiring the GRE/GMAT as it had been over 2 years since I graduated from UT. I factored in my work experience with D.R. Horton Homes and this other real estate (property preservation) company and believed that these were considered "related fields." Well, it turns out that NYU believed that to be true, as well, as I was accepted into the Graduate Certificate program (more on that in a bit). I must admit, however, that these two jobs were pretty much entry-level type jobs where I did not actually learn a ton about the actual real estate industry world and did not involve any type of development/planning education or experience at all.

Now, after reading about so many of your experiences here on the boards, it seems that nearly everyone is coming from a planning or finance background and are looking to further their education/experience/position within those fields. I have to admit, however, that I am relatively unfamiliar with any of the general ideas/practices/businesses that make up these types of careers. I was hoping to gain the insight and education about the real estate world from the program itself, as I clearly do not have the same industry background that many of you do. After reading many of the posts here, I am just developing some serious cold feet about my expectations of the program. It seems that I may not be ready nor have the educational background and/or actual relevant work experience to make the most of the program. I am nervous that without this sturdy basis of knowledge (no business/math courses, iffy work experience), I have a good chance of being far behind many of my fellow students in the program. This scares me, as I was only admitted into the Graduate Certificate program, and there are some pretty steep GPA requirements if I would like to then proceed into the full master's degree program. I am concerned that if I do not do well enough to get into the master's program, the certificate alone may not produce the kind of results to justify going into possibly $30k+ in debt from student loans. Does anyone have any information regarding how much obtaining a graduate certificate (particularly from NYU?) helps in getting someone a better job, salary, position, etc?

Now, this lengthy post may have done something to confirm phear_me's many posts about the acceptance rate of NYU's graduate program(s)...at least the certificate program. I did not have to submit a GRE score; I am finding that my work experience probably has done nothing to prepare me for this program; and my undergraduate coursework is lacking in relevent (and helpful) preparatory information. Granted, I was only admitted into the certificate program, but I am beginning to wonder if I am truly prepared for this thing.

Sorry for the really long post. I appreciate everyone's time in reading the information. Please let me know if you have any questions from me or can possibly provide me with any additional information or advice. Thanks!

Sonny,

The flip side to the certificate being a negative for the masters program is that the masters program is an absolute gem for those looking to move from "unqualified and not yet ready" to "confident and grounded in the basics" as you will benefit from actual college courses at a very respected university. The concerns you are listing may make you (please forgive my candor) a detriment to the masters students but it also puts you in a position to get the absolute most out of the program and to learn from the masters students and make new and useful connections.

Having also started my career during the single family boom I leveraged my MBA to move into commercial, which you will quickly come to find is considered "real" real estate by most of your typical planning, MBA, finance upper echelon types, so I know what you're going through. Don't worry, commercial real estate is not rocket science. It's not particularly HARD so much as it is VAST and VARIED.

As far as job prospects, I don't think that the certificate will land you a great high power 6 figure job (but who knows? maybe you're awesome), but I do think that you can leverage the certificate along with your undergraduate degree at a fine institution in UTA and SFR experience to get an entry level position within commercial real estate. Since NYU is a part time program you can then parlay the certificate into the masters degree. Although, the caveat here is that you probably don't need the certificate program to do that.

As far as your concerns about getting A's, grad school is the sort of place where a sufficiently motivated person can and will get an A if they decide that they must. It might not be easy, but if you can have to do it you'll find a way. Besides, it might also be easy, it just depends on your classmates, the curve, the prof, and how well each class caters to your strengths. I would also strongly urge you to talk your situation over with the adcoms at NYU and stress your desire/need to obtain the masters degree and see what they say. Similarly, take time to discuss your situation with each of your professors so that they understand how important your grades are to your future plans.

If you think you can work the certificate into the masters degree then there is a light at the end of the tunnel and this move makes sense for you. If, however, you fail to do so I'm not certain that the certificate program warrants a move across state. I believe that it was created with the intention of serving the local real estate market.

As always, this is just my 2 cents. As you have seen, people tend to agree with me wholeheartedly except for those who go to NYU so for your case I'd seek out some of the more helpful NYU students on these forums and discuss your situation with them. They are in the best position to give you advice and I would encourage you to defer to their advice when sorting through who to listen to.

If you want to talk privately shoot me an e-mail and we can go into more depth if you wish.

- phear

[AJW]

Sonny,

The flip side to the certificate being a negative for the masters program is that the masters program is an absolute gem for those looking to move from "unqualified and not yet ready" to "confident and grounded in the basics" as you will benefit from actual college courses at a very respected university. The concerns you are listing may make you (please forgive my candor) a detriment to the masters students but it also puts you in a position to get the absolute most out of the program and to learn from the masters students and make new and useful connections.

Having also started my career during the single family boom I leveraged my MBA to move into commercial, which you will quickly come to find is considered "real" real estate by most of your typical planning, MBA, finance upper echelon types, so I know what you're going through. Don't worry, commercial real estate is not rocket science. It's not particularly HARD so much as it is VAST and VARIED.

As far as job prospects, I don't think that the certificate will land you a great high power 6 figure job (but who knows? maybe you're awesome), but I do think that you can leverage the certificate along with your undergraduate degree at a fine institution in UTA and SFR experience to get an entry level position within commercial real estate. Since NYU is a part time program you can then parlay the certificate into the masters degree. Although, the caveat here is that you probably don't need the certificate program to do that.

As far as your concerns about getting A's, grad school is the sort of place where a sufficiently motivated person can and will get an A if they decide that they must. It might not be easy, but if you can have to do it you'll find a way. Besides, it might also be easy, it just depends on your classmates, the curve, the prof, and how well each class caters to your strengths. I would also strongly urge you to talk your situation over with the adcoms at NYU and stress your desire/need to obtain the masters degree and see what they say. Similarly, take time to discuss your situation with each of your professors so that they understand how important your grades are to your future plans.

If you think you can work the certificate into the masters degree then there is a light at the end of the tunnel and this move makes sense for you. If, however, you fail to do so I'm not certain that the certificate program warrants a move across state. I believe that it was created with the intention of serving the local real estate market.

As always, this is just my 2 cents. As you have seen, people tend to agree with me wholeheartedly except for those who go to NYU so for your case I'd seek out some of the more helpful NYU students on these forums and discuss your situation with them. They are in the best position to give you advice and I would encourage you to defer to their advice when sorting through who to listen to.

If you want to talk privately shoot me an e-mail and we can go into more depth if you wish.

- phear

Phear-

I am very interested in applying to Cornell's MBA/MPS-Real Estate degree which is a three year program. Assuming I get in I think it will give me the most flexibility as far as career choices go. I wanted to know if you had any insight on who to talk to or how to best position myself to be accepted to both programs. What should I be doing right now? I will apply next year to attend in 2010. Any information will help. Thanks for all the past posts they were helpful. Below is some basic information.

GPA: 3.99 (E-con)
GMAT:610
Work Experience: 4 years
Intl Experience: 2 years (Brasil-Fluent in Portuguese)
Title:Associate Developer (Residential) Watts Enterprises (Boutique Development Firm in the State of Utah)

(Gedunker) Link removed. You may email the link if you so desire, but it's not appropriate here. Thank you.

[ved_theone]

Hi all,

I am thankfull for all the people who have posted their views and reviews of colleges in this posted thread.............. It is definately gonna help everyone for making their decisions

Well, about me

I am Civil Engineer from B grade college in India.
Had done my 6 months project in IIT-Mumbai researching for GRAM++, a GIS software
Had an average result with 65% marks.............. dont knw what that converts into GPA.
Later on I did my master in Geoinformatics from one of the reputed college in India.
Got placed in Reliance Infrastructure company, one the biggest company in India. in Jan'2008
Working as Assistant Manager, for managing Utility and Infrastructure products of it
In Utility sector i mean to say Electrical Distribution and Infrastructure, I mean to say Roads, Power Plant Setup, Transportation Management, GPS and RFID technologies.

This all things are done using help of Geomatics
1. Maintaining the Electrical Distribution Network
2. Creating pavements and designing road using AutoCAD Civil 3D
3. Designing Storm Water and modelling using ArcGIS and ILWIS
4. Google Earth for Geo-referencing for images etc
5. Programming in AutoCAD and AutoCAD Civil 3D, ArcGIS
6. Currently working on Routing Alogrithms for Transportation of vehicles


But I was always interested in Real Estate Program ie Valuation and Management
I know, my knowledge of Civil Engineering and Geomatics can be manipulated in Real Estate Planning and Development
Because this technology has been implemented succesfuly yet their implementation is slow nd very little people know hot to implement them
So, started to study for it............. later found that Masters in Real Estate Management Requires GMAT........... because i dont have a exp atleast what top Ivy colleges are looking for

Can anyone please tell me how is my current job profile would either hamper/increase my chances in getting into nice colleges as discussed in the thread.

I am planning to give GMAT in December.

Please suggest me................. Thanks and Advance