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Thread: The nature of religions: righteousness, self-enlightenment, and social justice

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    Cyburbia Administrator Dan's avatar
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    The nature of religions: righteousness, self-enlightenment, and social justice

    About a week ago, I was listening to Talk of the Nation on NPR, where there was an interview with an author of several books about Black Liberation Theology. One thing he said was that contemporary Christianity, as often practiced in the United States, tends to focus on righteousness -- one's relationship with God -- while African-American Christian congregations tend to lean towards the teachings of Jesus that relate to social justice.

    The statement really got me thinking. So many evangelical Christian congregations seem to place an emphasis on sin, homosexuality, sex outside of wedlock, and the other evils of secular life, while any references in the New Testament about helping your fellow man is given short shrift, or even dismissed as "socialist." Meanwhile, congregations emphasizing social justice occasionally seem to do so in a condescending manner.

    I think there's a third point, though, aside from righteousness and social justice; self-enrichment, enlightenment, education, or whatever you want to call it. Basically, making yourself a better person, and living up to your potential as a human being.

    Among the many things that drew this somewhat agnostic soul to Reform Judaism is that there is a balance between righteousness, self-enlightenment, and "tikkun olam", or repairing the world -- social justice, in a sense. Buddhism seems to strike a balance between social justice and self-enlightenment, with less of an emphasis on righteousness.

    I know this post is worded awkwardly, but I'm not really a theologian. What say you? Should there be a balance between the three points of faith that I've described? Are there more points? Should one be more important than the other, and if so, why?

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    Cyburbian Plus
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    Glad you brought up Dan because I think that there are more points because just today in my fair newspaper was this article:

    HEADLINE: We can have life of significance only with the help of God
    http://www.courierpress.com/news/200...y-with-the-of/

    HIGHLIGHT:
    Gallup (Poll) believes the vitality of faith communities depends very much on how effectively they respond to six needs:

    To believe that life is meaningful and has a purpose.
    A sense of community and deeper relationships.
    To be appreciated and respected.
    To be listened to and heard.
    Growth in one's personal values.
    For practical help in developing personal maturity.


    From the author's closing prayer -
    to care for, share with, and let others know they are known and loved. May they know through our actions and our words that they matter — to you and to us
    Oddball
    Why don't you knock it off with them negative waves?
    Why don't you dig how beautiful it is out here?
    Why don't you say something righteous and hopeful for a change?
    From Kelly's Heroes (1970)


    Are you sure you're not hurt ?
    No. Just some parts wake up faster than others.
    Broke parts take a little longer, though.
    From Electric Horseman (1979)

  3. #3
    Cyburbian
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    nature of religion

    According to the Christina New Testament, the letter of James, chapter 1 verse 27,

    "Religion that God our Father accepts as pure and faultless is this: to look after orphans and widows in their distress and to keep oneself from being polluted by the world."

    If Jesus Christ is to be the model of Christians, then healing the sick, encouraging the downhearted, standing up for the disadvantaged, challenging hypocrisy and fake religiosity, fighting discrimination, were all things he did, and his followers should continue to do.

    The famous Lord's Prayer that Christian love to recite says
    "...Your kingdom come, your will be done on earth, as it is in heaven..." I interpret that to mean that the one who prays it understands that s/he is thereby obligating him/herself to doing God's will on earth. That's the way his kingdom will come.

    The apostle Paul claims that true christian believers are God's ambassadors here, and that they have been give the responsibility for reconciliation among people...which I take to mean ANY and ALL people. So when people complain to me about a God who doesn't care about the people suffering in war, I remind myself that it is people here and now who are God's hands and feet and eyes and it is WE all who have responsibilities to stop suffereing and bring reconciliation. Don't blame it on God.

    The Jewish Torah has enormous wealth of proof that God's people were to be known for their social justice, their care for the poor, widows, orphans, refugees. When Abraham was accounted righteous it was because he believed God enough to get up and do something. Faith that doesn't lead to some specific and appropriate behaviour or activity is academic and fruitless, in both the Old Testament/Torah and the Christian New Testament.

    Islam also teaches the importance of good works. One of the things people in the west don't always appreciate is that some of the more aggressive and radical groups in the middle east are the groups that are most active in providing solid social services where their governments are failing. This make it very tough to know how to deal with them in practice. But it is also the more aggressive and radical groups among the Brazilian Catholic church, or even some of the American churches that are doing the most concrete things for the disadvantaged.

    Unfortunately, leaders in all religions are subject to the usual human drive for power, and use religion to manipulate others, indoctrinate them, or otherwise abuse them. My own reaction is, rather than "throw the baby out with the bathwater" try to get back to the core principles and truths. It's a long and hard journey, and for me, there is still a LOOOONG way to go.

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    moderator in moderation Suburb Repairman's avatar
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    It's funny you bring this up now. My wife & I are changing churches for this very reason. At our old church I always tried to get folks to take a more active role in the community (social service, etc.), but could never get any interest. A Christian church we are about to join has some elements of Reform Judaism that you described, as far as balance between righteousness & self-enlightenment and social justice.

    "Oh, that is all well and good, but, voice or no voice, the people can always be brought to the bidding of the leaders. That is easy. All you have to do is tell them they are being attacked and denounce the pacifists for lack of patriotism and exposing the country to danger. It works the same way in any country."

    - Herman Göring at the Nuremburg trials (thoughts on democracy)

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    Cyburbian otterpop's avatar
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    I have long been on a spiritual quest. Raised Catholic but with Baptists and Methodists in the family too. Solemn, pious people who seem to get comfort from their faiths but not much joy.

    I recall in a single year we attended two funerals. An aunt's funeral in the Catholic Church and a friend's funeral in the black Baptist Church. I was struck by how impersonal and unsatisfying the Mass was. The priest did not even know my aunt's name and he did not take the effort to learn anything about her prior to the service. The other funeral was vibrant, warm and positive. There was actual emotion and mourning going on!

    Of late I have been hanging with the Unitarians. They are liberal, socially involved and friendly people. Very, very friendly. Nicer people than I will probably ever be. They are big on social justice and enlightenment, but do not push righteousness. Very accepting folks. And friendly. Did I mention the Unitarians are friendly. Very, very friendly.

    This week I checked out a book from the public library on Zoroastrianism -- one of the oldest and now smallest religious faiths. Thier faith in a nutshell is: do good, be good, be better, be charitable, enjoy life, and when the battle between good and evil is finished -- good will conquer evil and all will be saved in the end.

    I cannot be a Zoroastrian (they do not accept converts). Besides I am not so nice. I can be a Unitarian, though I am not so nice. Among my faults is that the milk of human kindness has soured. Perhaps I can get a fresh glass.

    Good thoughts, good deeds and self-betterment seem to me to be the path to salvation - both on Earth and in the afterlife, if there is one. The pious and self-righteous are hard to live with on this Earth and an eternity with them would be an eternity.
    "I am very good at reading women, but I get into trouble for using the Braille method."

    ~ Otterpop ~

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    Cyburbian
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    As MrTresmo and I prepare to get married, we've been trying to figure out how to be involved in a religious community and which community to be involved in. He was raised Catholic, very involved in church, and his mother isn't exactly thrilled at the prospect of him not attending Catholic church now, because I'm not Catholic (raised United Methodist). I've thought about going to classes and all that, but I don't really agree with enough of what they teach to go through it. I can't go to a Catholic Church because I'm not allowed to participate in a lot of the services. And I don't want to attend a church that doesn't include me. The best part is that the churches aren't that dissimilar.

    Anyway, I've always been drawn to Reform Judaism because of the balance between those three elements that Dan described. I don't like it when the whole focus is on grace or repentance or avoiding a laundry list of sins. I feel like it's within my capacity to keep myself from being an a*shole, I look for more than that from a religion. I also get sick of endless rituals that do have meaning but take so much time that they become a waste.

    I'll stop now, I'm in the middle of a stack of memos and I think it's affecting my ability to write coherently.

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    Cyburbian michaelskis's avatar
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    Dan, this is a fascinating thread. I was raised Lutheran and became Catholic when I was in college. Part of the reason is because of the educational element that you talk about. When I was going to my RICA classes, the question that was most often raised was “Why” and the fascinating thing is the answer was never “Because that is the way that we have always done it.” There is however about 1,800 years of tradition and history.

    I think it also helps that the person who tough the RICA classes was not a cradle Catholic and reminded us that we should think of the Catholic Church similar to how we think of our mother. We honor and respect her, however we don’t always agree. While it is not constant with some of the church’s teachings, it has helped me quite a bit to remember that God gave us free will.

    I don’t think that any religion is perfect in any aspect and as terrible as this is, I think that those who think of them selves as ‘religious’ should learn from any many religions as possible, and practice the elements that connect with them the most. I think that there are several phenomenal aspects of a Buddhist lifestyle. The simplicity where nature and spiritually combine has always fascinated me.

    I think that religion should always be a personal discussion and I always encourage people to believe in something. To me, it does not matter if it is believing in a higher being, a supernatural force, or the quest for an inner peace, as long as they do not do things that negatively impact my religious experiences, then I support others choices, even if they differ from my own.
    "I learned many great lessons from my father, not the least of which, was that you can fail at what you don't want, so you might as well take a chance on doing what you love." - Jim Carrey

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    Cyburbian wahday's avatar
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    This is a fascinating thread. In fact, Dan, I would say your observations have helped put into perspective a few things my wife and I have wrestled with of late.

    For a while we have been on and off participants in a Reform Judaism synagogue that takes a very progressive view of Judaism and lays a heavy emphasis on social justice and activism. Many of the textual interpretations also have a strong Feminist perspective.

    But something about it all has not sat right with us, though we have not been able to put our fingers on it. One element has been the constant social pressure to volunteer for the synagogue, donate time and effort, chair a committee, etc. Its exhausting and makes going to services a frightful experience for fear of getting roped into something you hadn't planned for. Its all for good causes and to "build community" among the congregants, but I don't have a lot of extra time as it is - I need to spend it with my family.

    This congregation is also very self-consciously trying to create a social side that is akin to some perception of shtetl life back in Eastern Europe. For some reason, this really bugs me. Maybe its the suggestion that this life should completely envelope me that irks me. I have a larger life and, frankly, I am not looking for new activities or friends, per se. I do, though, value coming together with others and ruminating on these tough questions. But that doesn't mean I also want to spend the next 5 weekends together planning an event or cooking food for a pot luck. Also, I think a lot of people romanticize the shtetl life. Do they realize why people lived in these small, poor, dirty villages on the outskirts of own? It wasn't voluntary, it was because they were not welcome elsewhere and this was a way to protect themselves. Religion was the centerpiece of village life out of necessity, not choice.

    So, relating this to Dan's observations, I think what I am interested in more than anything at the moment is the personal enrichment/enlightenment/education aspect of religion. I think community service is very important and a lot of my own feelings on this are derived from my Quaker experiences, but I already work in the community development field at work, so I don't really to add any more of it at the time being. As for the righteousness, I like to lead my life in a certain way because it is what I feel is best for me and, frankly, I find it presumptuous and rude to suggest one's life is any more "holy" than another. I guess that's another Quaker value I hold dear - humility. Though I guess the Jews can be pretty low key about this stuff as well. Jewish Family Services, for example, works extensively with the poor, disabled, etc. but rarely do I hear about this work in synagogue or other venues. Its quiet work, but work that needs to be done...because its the right thing to do. If your faith in G_d is strong enough, you don't really need to trumpet your accomplishments to your mortal peers...
    The purpose of life is a life of purpose

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    Cyburbian ofos's avatar
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    Quote Originally posted by otterpop View post
    The pious and self-righteous are hard to live with on this Earth and an eternity with them would be an eternity.
    I won't disagree with you if, by pious, you're using the secondary definition of the word meaning hypocritical. But the primary meaning of pious is to be entirely devoted and that's not a bad thing although probably not possible for most of us. Self-righteous is also bad but Christians are supposed to be righteous which means "right with God", not holier than thou.
    “Death comes when memories of the past exceed the vision for the future.”

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    Cyburbian Habanero's avatar
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    I think one point many people miss is the showing by doing part rather than preaching and inaction. I also question what many are being taught by their church when some of the people that call themselves Christians are spouting off rather hate-filled rhetoric rather than leading by example or choosing to be more gracious in everyday life. I was told by an in-law, "I don't have to ask for your forgiveness, I'm already forgiven". Hopefully he and many others from their church missed the point and that's not what they have been told, but I've met several people from their church and that sentiment is overwhelming.
    When Jesus said "love your enemies", he probably didn't mean kill them.

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    Cyburbian Plus Whose Yur Planner's avatar
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    As probably one of the few evangelicals on this board, I suppose it time to put my 2 cents worth in. Evangelical christianity places an emphasis on enlightment, but this comes from becoming closer to God and allowing him to work through you. Becoming come Christ-like through the power of the Holy Spirit. This is not completely passive. Paul talks about working out your salvation with fear and trembling. Further, you will give an account for what you did in this life in the end.

    Christ actual teachings placed a strong emphasis on taking care of the poor and a more communal approach to life. If you read what Christ actually taught, it's pretty radical, especially for the time he taught it. It also places a strong emphasis on humilty and knowing you are and what you are capable of.

    Several points. First, Christianity is a pretty broad category. Different types placing different emphasis of different parts of scripture. The sole unifying idea is belief in Christ as your savior and the only way to heaven. Second, Christanity did get hijacked in the '80s by those will a strong political and social agenda. The pendulum is swinging back with more of an emphasis on soical issues. In the past, churches placed a strong emphasis on social issues. In the past, a lot of hosptials were founded by chruches along with social aid agencies. The environmental movement is getting some pretty good traction now and there is a greater emphasis on public service. Further, the churches I attended have had outreaches to the poor, both in this country and in others.
    When did I go from Luke Skywalker to Obi-Wan Kenobi?

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    Cyburbian gicarto's avatar
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    Overtime, I have decided that I cannot accept any form of organized faith. I have always had a different view of God and the way the world is. I have tried many different churches throughout the years and every time I leave after the service I am confused with the teachings of the day.
    I recently quit drinking and I have been attending meetings and I really like the concepts that I take away from them. The most important principle is to recognize a power greater than me of my own understanding.
    Trying to get my grubby hands on as much stimulus money as I can.:D

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    I think Dan's points are right on when it comes to differences within Christianity and between it and other religions.

    Basically I think culture and history shapes the kind of religion we practice, and not vice versa. If you look at evangelical Christianity today and wonder where the emphasis on social justice is, I'd say it disappeared there like it did in other aspects of American culture. We've become much more of an individualistic society overall, and (very broadly speaking) Evangelicals focus much more on what we want "Ja-hee-zus" to do for us (and by extension, the society we want to live in).

    I grew up in the black church (African Methodist Episcopal). It's much more moderate and mainstream compared to the more Pentecostal and evangelical black churches, but it does have threads common with them. The black church overall has a message of deliverance -- God can deliver you from the problems of your life, if you believe enough and serve Him. I think that message is one rooted in culture too, coming from a dispossessed people who yearned for a secure present and future.

    I think Arab culture and history might shape the kind of Islam practiced in the Middle East, or certainly shapes Western perception of it. Arabs were a group that was rather clannish long before Muhammad received his conversion, and the history of Arabs since the collapse of the Ottoman Empire has been largely about regaining worldwide respect.

    So I think religion is a window into our culture, and if anything is lacking in our religion, it's because it's lacking in our culture.

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    Cyburbian Duke Of Dystopia's avatar
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    Quote Originally posted by pete-rock View post
    I think Dan's ......religion is a window into our culture, and if anything is lacking in our religion, it's because it's lacking in our culture.
    More likely, what is laking in our culture creates a lack of something in out religion. Culture causes religion to shift, because however long the religious tradition, contrary to evangelical beliefs, religion is NOT set in stone. It changes.
    I can't deliver UTOPIA, but I can create a HELL for you to LIVE in :)DoD:(

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    Cyburbian ofos's avatar
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    Quote Originally posted by Duke Of Dystopia View post
    contrary to evangelical beliefs, religion is NOT set in stone. It changes.
    What's the point in having religious beliefs if everything is open to change? Even evangelicals, and that term takes in a lot of territory, don't believe that all religious practices are unchanging, only that there are some tenets of their faith that do not.
    “Death comes when memories of the past exceed the vision for the future.”

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    Cyburbian
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    What changes, I hope, is me. If, as many Christians believe, the basis for their faith is a personal relationship, we should change as that relationship grows and we learn to know God better through experience. Just like many close personal relationships bring changes to us.

    What I was taught to believe as a child is not what I believe today, for two reasons: one, I had a father who encouraged me not to accept a hand-me-down faith/religion; and two: I had a life shaking experience that meant I couldn't deny the existence of a greater power/God even when I wanted desperately to extricate myself from what I perceived to be very hypocritical and self-righteous people in formal and semi-formal churches. Of course my perception of these people only showed my own self-righteousness for what it was/is.

    And I also believe that the more I seek to know God, the more my social conscience kicks in.

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    Cyburbian Plus Whose Yur Planner's avatar
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    Quote Originally posted by Monamogolo View post
    What changes, I hope, is me. If, as many Christians believe, the basis for their faith is a personal relationship, we should change as that relationship grows and we learn to know God better through experience. Just like many close personal relationships bring changes to us.

    What I was taught to believe as a child is not what I believe today, for two reasons: one, I had a father who encouraged me not to accept a hand-me-down faith/religion; and two: I had a life shaking experience that meant I couldn't deny the existence of a greater power/God even when I wanted desperately to extricate myself from what I perceived to be very hypocritical and self-righteous people in formal and semi-formal churches. Of course my perception of these people only showed my own self-righteousness for what it was/is.

    And I also believe that the more I seek to know God, the more my social conscience kicks in.
    Very, very well stated. 1 Corinthians 13 talks about growing in understanding, Paul states that when I was a child, I used to speak as a child, think as a child, reason as a child; when I became a man, I put away childish things. This is followed by the through-the-mirror-darkly verse which talks about learning to see your true self. This has a subtext of growing enlightment. You learn more about yourself as you grow closer to God.

    Like you, the more I grow in God, the more my social conscience grows. A lot of Christ' ministry was to the poor, sick, the sinners and outsiders. He even liked government employees-Matthew was a tax collector.
    When did I go from Luke Skywalker to Obi-Wan Kenobi?

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    Cyburbian Duke Of Dystopia's avatar
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    Quote Originally posted by ofos View post
    What's the point in having religious beliefs if everything is open to change? Even evangelicals, and that term takes in a lot of territory, don't believe that all religious practices are unchanging, only that there are some tenets of their faith that do not.
    The point is not that religion is "open" to change, but that change is going to happen to that religion, in spite of its adherents trying to keep the "door to change" from occurring.

    The tenets of a faith are decided more by the cult of personality formed by an individual (a few individuals at most). That individual(s) then picks and chooses which of those tenets they want to heighten and which to ignore. Which tenets focused on often have their linkage, not connected to "the common good of the followers" but to
    the acquisition of power and the exercising of influence.

    The original Catholic Church did not want to change its ways. Its basic tenets had become corrupt. Martin Luther comes along and wants to tighten things back up. Schism occurs and there are now different tenets to choose from. It wasn't on purpose, it happened in spite of the controlling religious authorities.

    The long term trend is for religion to be more schismatic, not less. The Anglican Church, quakers, Mormons, Mennonites, pentecostal... The list of just christian based sects focusing on slightly different tenets could go on for a long time. The point is that there is no ability to stop the drift.

    I am not saying religion is bad. Its a good thing to believe in something greater than ones self. Believing that your (as of in a grouping not personal) sect has the truth cornered, and that it is the only way to understand the divine, is the ultimate in human arrogance.

    As far as what good is religion if it changes, well, that is a very old question indeed. One that has been with us for millennia.
    I can't deliver UTOPIA, but I can create a HELL for you to LIVE in :)DoD:(

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    Cyburbian ofos's avatar
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    DOD, thanks for your well-reasoned response. I don't agree with all your points but I do with your general line of thought. I'd add that, although we're most familiar with Christianity in this country, the same phenomena has occurred in Islam, Buddhism, and all the major religions of the world. It's just inherent in the nature of mankind to want to reshape religious beliefs to their own benefit but within each of those religions, there are a small core set of tenets which are common. Everything else is irrelevant in the long run.
    “Death comes when memories of the past exceed the vision for the future.”

  20. #20
    Cyburbian TexanOkie's avatar
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    Quote Originally posted by Whose Yur Planner View post
    As probably one of the few evangelicals on this board, I suppose it time to put my 2 cents worth in. Evangelical christianity places an emphasis on enlightment, but this comes from becoming closer to God and allowing him to work through you. Becoming come Christ-like through the power of the Holy Spirit. This is not completely passive. Paul talks about working out your salvation with fear and trembling. Further, you will give an account for what you did in this life in the end.

    Christ actual teachings placed a strong emphasis on taking care of the poor and a more communal approach to life. If you read what Christ actually taught, it's pretty radical, especially for the time he taught it. It also places a strong emphasis on humilty and knowing you are and what you are capable of.

    Several points. First, Christianity is a pretty broad category. Different types placing different emphasis of different parts of scripture. The sole unifying idea is belief in Christ as your savior and the only way to heaven. Second, Christanity did get hijacked in the '80s by those will a strong political and social agenda. The pendulum is swinging back with more of an emphasis on soical issues. In the past, churches placed a strong emphasis on social issues. In the past, a lot of hosptials were founded by chruches along with social aid agencies. The environmental movement is getting some pretty good traction now and there is a greater emphasis on public service. Further, the churches I attended have had outreaches to the poor, both in this country and in others.
    As another resident evangelical, I'll echo these statements made by WYP, but I'd like to add some other things for clarification. Especially in Wesleyan theology, the ideas of compassion and living free of sin go hand in hand. There is no mark of delineation between righteousness, spiritual growth, and compassionate ministry*. Most sin is a result of self-seeking human nature and therefore, the closer you grow in your walk with God, the less you sin and the more compassionate and charitable you become. You go from wanting to serve yourself to wanting to serve God, and you serve God by serving others.

    * Most evangelicals would probably object to using the terms "self-enlightenment" and "social justice" in reference to their religious practices, even though some of their teachings and compassionate ministries may fall under these categories in an academic construct. Self-enlightenment places an emphasis on self rather than on others and could indirectly reinforce the sinful nature, which is seen as self-serving. We are not in this for ourselves, but for the good of others and the spreading of God's work. Social justice usually indicates a degree of pressure or forced will on someone, which runs contradictory to the free-will decision to follow Christ. I know there are some on this blog who would probably argue that evangelical proselyting infringes on other's free will by forcing religion on people, but I'd argue that's not true. We cannot and will not make a decision for someone because a decision to follow Christ must be made by individuals because it is the individuals who are ultimately held accountable for their decision or indecision. However, we, too, are held accountable if we do not make every effort to evangelize those around us. Some of us, admittedly, aren't very effective and turn people away, and for those who that I'd like to personally apologize to both you and to God, because it is accomplishing the opposite purpose than its intent. Look at it this way: it's late at night on a mountain pass and you see the road has washed out ahead of you. You make the only decision you can, and slow down, turn around to go back. As you're driving back, you see several other of your closest friends coming around the pass at high speed and they may or may not see that the road has been washed out. You try to get their attention, right? Well, same principle applies.

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    Cyburbian KSharpe's avatar
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    Am I the only Atheist on this board??
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    maudit anglais
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    Quote Originally posted by KSharpe View post
    Am I the only Atheist on this board??
    No, you have company.

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    Cyburbian Flying Monkeys's avatar
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    Quote Originally posted by Duke Of Dystopia View post
    The point is not that religion is "open" to change, but that change is going to happen to that religion, in spite of its adherents trying to keep the "door to change" from occurring.

    The tenets of a faith are decided more by the cult of personality formed by an individual (a few individuals at most). That individual(s) then picks and chooses which of those tenets they want to heighten and which to ignore. Which tenets focused on often have their linkage, not connected to "the common good of the followers" but to
    the acquisition of power and the exercising of influence.

    The original Catholic Church did not want to change its ways. Its basic tenets had become corrupt. Martin Luther comes along and wants to tighten things back up. Schism occurs and there are now different tenets to choose from. It wasn't on purpose, it happened in spite of the controlling religious authorities.

    The long term trend is for religion to be more schismatic, not less. The Anglican Church, quakers, Mormons, Mennonites, pentecostal... The list of just christian based sects focusing on slightly different tenets could go on for a long time. The point is that there is no ability to stop the drift.

    I am not saying religion is bad. Its a good thing to believe in something greater than ones self. Believing that your (as of in a grouping not personal) sect has the truth cornered, and that it is the only way to understand the divine, is the ultimate in human arrogance.

    As far as what good is religion if it changes, well, that is a very old question indeed. One that has been with us for millennia.
    You really are the devil!!

    I remember a saying that goes, "God was great, God was good, until man invented religion."
    What’s in a name? – Your reputation….:)

  24. #24
    Cyburbian otterpop's avatar
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    Quote Originally posted by KSharpe View post
    Am I the only Atheist on this board??
    There is no law west of Dodge City and no God west of the Pecos.
    "I am very good at reading women, but I get into trouble for using the Braille method."

    ~ Otterpop ~

  25. #25
    Cyburbian
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    Quote Originally posted by KSharpe View post
    Am I the only Atheist on this board??
    Doubtful. I'm an Atheist by most people's definition. One of my "hobbies" is theoretical physics, so as a result I think of "God" as more of a force or a kind of energy than anything else. I could get into it, but don't encourage me. Don't tell people at my church, though. I go there for the social companionship, and to live longer.

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