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Thread: Urban growth boundary: help!

  1. #1
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    Urban growth boundary: help!

    Hello all!

    I need some help in locating an example development/community. Specifically, I am looking for a large project (1000+ acres) that was developed in a primarily rural area which overcame major opposition by community activists in an attempt to keep the area rural and to not increase density. The project also needs to have been developed outside of an urban service boundary or utilized some type of mechanism to move the urban service boundary to include the project.

    Can anyone think of any project that utilized "triggers" (such as surrounding development pressure, infrastructure demand, etc.) that would allow density increases when certain criteria were met?

    Essentially, what I need help with is overcoming policies in the local comp plan that restrict density increasses outside of the urban growth boundary. I need creative and innovative examples of how this was done in other projects.

    Thank you for any help you can provide!

  2. #2
    Cyburbian Richi's avatar
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    The Villages in Sumter County is likely the biggest. It survived legal chalange. Mixed use to the point that it is really its on city. It was a DRI. No doubt there are other DRIs out there as wel. Also check out Ave Maria in Collier County. That used the Rural Lands Stewardship Area process.

  3. #3
    Cyburbian Tide's avatar
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    Currently undergoing planning. Mean Westvaco which is famous for dumping 5000+ acres at a clip has actually begun to plan out the land prior to sale (guess they are back in the land development business and not the paper business).

    Here's a website, as far as I know it is outside of Charleston County's UGB (even thoguh their UGB is very unofficial and just a line on a map, nothing binding). However everyone views it as a UGB.

    http://www.eastedisto.com/
    @GigCityPlanner

  4. #4
    Cyburbian Plus Zoning Goddess's avatar
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    Get the nearest city to annex your property.

    Throw some $$ in the county commissioners' campaign funds, like every other developer.

    I spent 22 years as a planner in FL trying to prevent this kind of thing. I've seen it happen but I won't contribute to it unless someone holds a gun to my kid's head.

  5. #5
    Cyburbian Plus
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    Would Highland Ranch, Colorado be a close if not a good example ?
    Oddball
    Why don't you knock it off with them negative waves?
    Why don't you dig how beautiful it is out here?
    Why don't you say something righteous and hopeful for a change?
    From Kelly's Heroes (1970)


    Are you sure you're not hurt ?
    No. Just some parts wake up faster than others.
    Broke parts take a little longer, though.
    From Electric Horseman (1979)

  6. #6
    Cyburbian Plus Zoning Goddess's avatar
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    Oh, c'mon people, responding to this is like telling someone how to rob a bank (in someone else's community). I f a consultant doesn't already know how to rape a county, don't give him ammo.

    On the other hand, if they have to ask for help, they probably don't have a clue, so FL doesn't have to worry much.

  7. #7
    Cyburbian Tide's avatar
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    ZG and you wonder why I've said the things in my posts about you in the past? Look at the filth and rubbish you are spreading. Constructive criticism, just because you came from a weak political background and had some questionable councils or came from a weak planning department doesn't mean everyone is in the same boat. Again, I'm still challenging you to step up and be constructive instead of bitching all the time.
    @GigCityPlanner

  8. #8
    Cyburbian Plus Zoning Goddess's avatar
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    Quote Originally posted by Tide View post
    ZG and you wonder why I've said the things in my posts about you in the past? Look at the filth and rubbish you are spreading. Constructive criticism, just because you came from a weak political background and had some questionable councils or came from a weak planning department doesn't mean everyone is in the same boat. Again, I'm still challenging you to step up and be constructive instead of bitching all the time.
    And you work where in FL? Go away.

  9. #9
    Unfrozen Caveman Planner mendelman's avatar
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    Moderator note:
    Zoning Goddess' reply to this thread was inappropriate, but Tide's snarky response to it was equally inappropriate and the whole thing is a very inappropriate exchange in public in one of the professional forums. If you wish to have off-topic personal discussions like this in the future, take it to prviate message. Do not argue in public, unless it is constructive.

    If you persist to go at each other like this in the future (anywhere in Cyburbia), I will recommend some disciplinary action (short term suspension, etc.).

    Please play nice.
    mendelman
    I'm sorry. Is my bias showing?

    Let's not be didactic in this profession, because that is a path to disillusion and irrelevancy.

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  10. #10
    Cyburbian Plus Zoning Goddess's avatar
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    Quote Originally posted by mendelman View post
    Moderator note:
    Zoning Goddess' reply to this thread was inappropriate, but Tide's snarky response to it was equally inappropriate and the whole thing is a very inappropriate exchange in public in one of the professional forums. If you wish to have off-topic personal discussions like this in the future, take it to prviate message. Do not argue in public, unless it is constructive.

    If you persist to go at each other like this in the future (anywhere in Cyburbia), I will recommend some disciplinary action (short term suspension, etc.).

    Please play nice.
    mendelman
    Have at it. Someone asking how to get around growth management rules, and more to the point, how to get around the NIMBYs? I will clarify: in FL, to do this, you must be well connected, i.e. paying someone off, usually in campaign fees. 67 counties have 67 procedures (or not, depending on how advanced/backwards they are...), so there is no one answer from a planning perspective. You have to meet with the planners and check out the individual comp plans.

    I have seen 4 incursions into the urban/rural boundary or a special protected area, and in every case, it was negotiated between the Dept of Community Affairs, the (well-connected) developer, and the county (comissioners taking in all those contributions, thank you very much). Planners become fodder for the politicians. No wonder I can be bitter and resent anyone who thinks they can just come down here and find cheap land and blow land use laws (however loosely applied) and develop despite planning opinion and that of the community.

    It is not "filth and rubbish" to be referring to cases of politicians playing favorites. Hell, that's what Florida was built on, shameful as it is. If you support it, shame on you.

  11. #11
    NIMBY asshatterer Plus Richmond Jake's avatar
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    What you are essentially describing is urban/suburban sprawl. DCA has specific policies in opposition to this pattern of development. Here on the panhandle, DCA is keeping a close eye on because, they have, by all accounts, given up on central and south Florida. As a result, we're under the microscope. "Just because we made mistakes in the past doesn't mean we need to continue..."

    But here's the path if you want to establish urban density and intensity development in our county: conduct your pre-app meeting with planning staff and describe your proposal. We'll give you the road map to reach your goal which will include a needs assessment (which you can never prove because our urban and suburban service areas are either too undevelopment or underdeveloped to expand urban densities), proof of the availability of public utilities (you can prove that, but not before ponying up big $$ up front to expand basic infrastructure), proof of meeting school concurrency....do I really have go any further?

    And did I mention DCA is keeping a close watch on the panhandle?

    NIMBYs are the least of your worries. Good luck.
    RJ is the KING of . The One

  12. #12
    Cyburbian hilldweller's avatar
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    Quote Originally posted by RichmondJake View post
    Here on the panhandle, DCA is keeping a close eye on because, they have, by all accounts, given up on central and south Florida.
    Overall, I think DCA reacts to what local governments want to see happen, more than anything. The DCA leadership really has never had much clout in terms of issuing directives, but this may be changing (it's been a year since I left the state, so I'm out of the loop).

    I agree that DCA has given up on south FL, to some extent, but this doesn't mean that sprawl will be unimpeded. In fact, I'd argue that in south FL western expansion is increasingly fraught with legal and political difficulties. Consider:

    1. Tougher SFWMD water restrictions that make it harder to develop/drill new wells (at least legally).

    2. Local anti-growth political leadership. See the Callery-Judge case: http://www.sun-sentinel.com/news/loc...,3547331.story

    Palm Beach County is no longer pro-growth, and the Martin and St. Lucie BOCCs are probably the most supportive of planning/growth controls of any of the counties in the state. Broward County and Ft. Lauderdale also have advanced growth management policies. Not sure about Miami, but Miami is a debacle.

    3. The atrocious market conditions/ glut of housing inventory/ recession

  13. #13
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    UGB for Portland, Oregon

    I think the whole concept started in Portland in the early 1980's as a way of protecting farmland from urban sprawl as the city was growing to the west. Not sure if there were any master planned communities of 1000 acres being built out there at the time, though.

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