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Thread: Graduate real estate development programs [Take 2]

  1. #1
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    Graduate real estate development programs [Take 2]

    Since the last thread for graduate real estate development programs was unfortunately discontinued, I wanted to start a new one with the same opportunity to share information. That thread was the reason I discovered this forum and the main reason I continue to visit it. The information shared, while laced with unnecessary comments, was invaluable to aspiring students of real estate development.
    Let's see if we can continue the conversation with a more positive tone.
    Phear, while some of your points were overly argumentative and opinions stated with a little too much of a definitive tone, I think your contributions to the knowledge and comparison of graduate real estate programs was excellent. I thought I knew more than anybody out there about these programs, but I've been educated by this discussion more than I could have hoped.
    Let's prove that we're the professionals we hope to convey through our eventual educational accomplishments and continue the sharing of information on this thread.

  2. #2
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    I'm considering starting a website devoted to MSRED programs and this discussion.

    I echo many of your sentiments.

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    Program Comparison

    Quote Originally posted by phear_me View post
    I'm considering starting a website devoted to MSRED programs and this discussion.

    I echo many of your sentiments.
    I've been trolling these forums trying to learn as much as possible about these programs these past few months, and wanted to thank you for all of the useful information.

    Most of your rankings are spot on, but I must ask: why do you consider the University of Florida MSRE third tier? I ask partly because the Florida market is one of the best real estate markets in the nation, and UF's network has a stronghold on the Florida industry. The UF advisory board consists of 124 CEO's and VP's in the Florida market, and the weather is awesome. It doesn't hurt that UF's GMAT blows NYU's out of the water, either.

    Any input on the matter would be greatly appreciated.

    Recent Program Statistics:

    Cornell:
    http://realestate.cornell.edu/index..../class_profile
    Average work experience: 5.7 years
    Average GMAT: 653
    Average GPA: 3.22

    University of Southern California:
    http://www.usc.edu/schools/sppd/prog...mred/students/
    Average work experience: 5.2 years
    Average GMAT: 650
    Average GPA: 3.3

    University of Florida:
    http://www.cba.ufl.edu/fire/programs...quirements.asp
    Average work experience: 5 years
    Average GMAT: 640
    Average GPA: 3.4

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    Quote Originally posted by Danny387 View post
    I've been trolling these forums trying to learn as much as possible about these programs these past few months, and wanted to thank you for all of the useful information.

    Most of your rankings are spot on, but I must ask: why do you consider the University of Florida MSRE third tier? I ask partly because the Florida market is one of the best real estate markets in the nation, and UF's network has a stronghold on the Florida industry. The UF advisory board consists of 124 CEO's and VP's in the Florida market, and the weather is awesome. It doesn't hurt that UF's GMAT blows NYU's out of the water, either.

    Any input on the matter would be greatly appreciated.

    Recent Program Statistics:

    Cornell:
    http://realestate.cornell.edu/index..../class_profile
    Average work experience: 5.7 years
    Average GMAT: 653
    Average GPA: 3.22

    University of Southern California:
    http://www.usc.edu/schools/sppd/prog...mred/students/
    Average work experience: 5.2 years
    Average GMAT: 650
    Average GPA: 3.3

    University of Florida:
    http://www.cba.ufl.edu/fire/programs...quirements.asp
    Average work experience: 5 years
    Average GMAT: 640
    Average GPA: 3.4
    The age of the program and industry reputation are my two primary concerns for Florida. A secondary concern is the amount of important research being conducted there, or lack there of, relative to the top programs. U of Florida is on my "watch list" for programs but it needs a little more time to develop and improve its industry placement, which is the ultimate measure of a program.

    To offer a comparison: NYU/Columbia have both been around for a long time and these programs do not even require standardized tests (NYU does require the GMAT for a minority of their students based on graduation dates) and yet I rank both of these programs higher than U of F despite my own strong preference for schools that use the GMAT and have high admissions standards. Again, this is because both of these programs are "known quantities" in the real estate market and as such can deliver top placement.

    There is one other unfair measure that I think counts when it comes to ranking MSRED programs, and this is solely because it relates to the placement/reputation issue, and this is the relative strength of the MBA program of the parent university. Because MBA's are competing for every position that the MSRED is competing for (not to mention the relatively high percentage of students who are dual degree holders, like myself) and because the MBA is the more popular degree, recruiters who are familiar with the MBA will often assume a level of quality equal to the business program or even the overall (undergrad) ranking of the university, which in turn effects placement. In time, as the popularity of this degree grows and the distinction between the MBA/MSRED grows this will be less of an issue, but I do think placement is affected by this comparison effect and so plays out in the industry reputation and placement categories.

    I suspect that in 5 years U of Florida may well be considered a top program and if their placement/research grows to support that expectation I would be happy to rank them as a top tier program. The more competitive programs their are the better it is for all of us.

    - phear

  5. #5
    Quote Originally posted by Seattle View post
    ~snip~
    Let's see if we can continue the conversation with a more positive tone.

    ~snip~
    Let's prove that we're the professionals we hope to convey through our eventual educational accomplishments and continue the sharing of information on this thread.
    Moderator note:
    Very well said. I will add that we will continue to watch this thread and will take quick action if it becomes necessary. I trust, with the above admonitions in mind, that will not be needed. Thank you and carry on.
    Last edited by Gedunker; 05 Sep 2008 at 7:29 PM.

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    I would also like to say I have found these forums to be quite informing as well.

    My question/situation....

    I work for one of the insurance company/lenders in Mezz & Perm financing....

    They pay for approximatley 50% of my graduate schooling if I go part-time...

    I'm in Chicago....

    My GMAT is 640.....

    I most likely will not get into Northwestern or U of C with my GMAT score... They also don't specific real estate programs... but Northwestern does have a real estate major within their MBA....

    Do I quit my job (take two years off) and go to the best school I can get into for MBA (focus in real estate) or MSRED?

    or

    Do I go to Depaul which has a MSRE and a MBA with a real estate investment focus?

    I also have some other comments but I'll save those until we get past this....

  7. #7
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    Quote Originally posted by P.J. View post
    I would also like to say I have found these forums to be quite informing as well.

    My question/situation....

    I work for one of the insurance company/lenders in Mezz & Perm financing....

    They pay for approximatley 50% of my graduate schooling if I go part-time...

    I'm in Chicago....

    My GMAT is 640.....

    I most likely will not get into Northwestern or U of C with my GMAT score... They also don't specific real estate programs... but Northwestern does have a real estate major within their MBA....

    Do I quit my job (take two years off) and go to the best school I can get into for MBA (focus in real estate) or MSRED?

    or

    Do I go to Depaul which has a MSRE and a MBA with a real estate investment focus?

    I also have some other comments but I'll save those until we get past this....
    Hands down go to the best MBA program that you can. Period. For an MBA, your brand is everything and that bares out very strongly in the ROI of the degree, especially as you look at profitability 5, 10, 20 years post graduation. The exception to this is entrepreneurs who just need the education, MBA's that have highly regarded specialties within a certain field (sometimes), and other special circumstances.

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    Quote Originally posted by phear_me View post
    I'm considering starting a website devoted to MSRED programs and this discussion.

    I echo many of your sentiments.
    Let me know if you decide to start that website, because I think it's a great idea. In my opinion, the only reason that MBA's still have a marginally higher amount of recognition over the MRED's is that there is still a lack of knowledge of the MRED programs. For people that are committed to a career in real estate development and want an education that covers the multifaceted nature of real estate development rather than just the finance aspects, the top MRED programs are more expansive and exhaustive. It would be great to begin spreading the word about the value of these programs.

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    Columbia MSRED Website

    It loos like the Columbia MSRED website has been updated. I noticed they added their Summer courses. I havn't been through all of it yet to notice anything else though.

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    Quote Originally posted by Joey Cash View post
    It loos like the Columbia MSRED website has been updated. I noticed they added their Summer courses. I havn't been through all of it yet to notice anything else though.
    One thing to note is that Columbia is also publishing some of the placement. However, placement must be balanced against the large class size and the lack of a placement/salary/bonus figures. This doesn't tell us how many people got placed and in what sorts of positions. Never-the-less, it does substantiate that opportunity exists at Columbia, although I'm sure that's something most people already "knew".

    I think Columbia's improvement to the academic depth and breadth of its program was very positive. Even if Columbia raises the cost of the program, i think the cost/benefit only drops marginally and I think it's safe to say that the program has definitely improved its educational offering.

    I am impressed by these changes.

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    Moderator note:
    See this banning announcement. An excerpt:

    Because of the use of sockpuppets and accounts where users impersonated others in the now-closed Graduate real estate development programs thread, we're going to be looking over the registration and posting IP addresses from all participants in that thread. Participants found to use sockpuppet accounts or who registered with fraudulent information will be banned.
    Growth for growth's sake is the ideology of the cancer cell. -- Edward Abbey

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    From Phear_Me

    I just wanted to write one last post.

    Apparently, according to Cyburbia, a "sock puppet" includes comments written by a different person, under a different account, with a different MAC address, but using my same network and so for that I was banned.

    Over the summer my roommate's buddy stayed at our place for 2 weeks for an out of town wedding, saw all the garbage going on in this forum, and decided to post. Certainly there was talk of this issue outside of this forum, but we had very different schedules and so actually used the forum to communicate. Brad being a real estate guy and all, it was an interesting topic for him, and he seemed to share my opinion of some of the obvious dual posting going on and decided to post. Given how many people were using sock puppet accounts and attacking me I can't say that I minded the help. even if it wasn't the most logical. At any rate, Cyburbia interprets the fact that some of his posts came from our wireless network while he was here as him being a "sock puppet" and so I was banned. If they honestly think I traveled all the way to Arizona just to get a new IP address for those last few posts then I think the mods here grossly overestimate the importance of these forums. At any rate, what's done is apparently done. Never let someone use your wireless network lest ye too be banned.

    After the October LSAT I should have time to create a website devoted to just this topic and I will be available for advice and commentary once again then. Or you can go to businessweek for a much more mature, non NYU dominated discussion of the topic. Just search for the thread entitled, "Top Real Estate Programs". Since that board is dominated by MBA's rather than Planners the posts are significantly more intelligent given the difference in general sophistication for those two populations. In particular, the rankings issue is a much richer topic on business week because MBA's are used to a brutal ranking system and the definitive impact it carries on the market value of a given school brand and so are more accustomed to the type of scrutiny that can, and should, be given a program, unlike the NYU sock puppet posters here on Cyburbia.

    At any rate, I now bid Cyburbia farewell.
    Last edited by SuzieqShoes; 13 Sep 2008 at 1:37 AM.

  13. #13
    Quote Originally posted by SuzieqShoes View post

    After the October LSAT I should have time to create a website devoted to just this topic and I will be available for advice and commentary once again then. Or you can go to businessweek for a much more mature, non NYU dominated discussion of the topic. Just search for the thread entitled, "Top Real Estate Programs". Since that board is dominated by MBA's rather than Planners the posts are significantly more intelligent given the difference in general sophistication for those two populations.

    At any rate, I now bid Cyburbia farewell.
    Good riddance
    Ricky Slade: Listen to me, I intentionally make this gun look that way because I am smart.

    MADE

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    phear bro, question for you..

    Phear, I've decided to jump in line and ask for your advice. In April of '08 I was rejected from the Columbia MSRED program. My stats are:

    2001 BA International Relations 3.63 Hopkins

    No test scores were submitted (not necessary)

    3 years starting and running my own real estate company, buying distressed properties in Albany, NY and renting them. Small Scale: 7 buildings, 17 apartments. Its a successful venture that allows my wife and to not have jay o bees.

    3 letters or recommendation that I thought were good (one from an columbia msred grad who assured me I would be a "shoe-in")

    I'd be happy to give you more info if you give me your email address. My wife and I want to return to the Bay Area, CA and I'm planning to apply to USC and reapply to Columbia.

    What do I need to do? Any response would be greatly appreciated.

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    MRED facebook network

    I recently created a MRED group on facebook. Please come onboard in an effort to stay connected to fellow MRED enthusiasts and to share your knowledge, experiences, advice, and "day in the life of a MRED grad" after graduation...


    Here's the link: http://www.new.facebook.com/group.php?gid=28719266515


    Thanks!!

  16. #16
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    GREAT. Just requested to join. (My name is similar to my username)

  17. #17
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    Whats up all?

    I'm applying to six MRED programs this winter. One in NYC, two in BOS, and one in BALT, CHI, and FL.

    I've been accepted to the U of Ill, Chicago program. Although, the small class size and relatively "new" status worries me. Does anyone have any take on this UIC program?

  18. #18
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    Need MRED school info!

    I am looking to get my MRED and have just started looking into the various programs. I attended ASU and majored in Real Estate. I have not taken the GMAT or the GRE yet. I have a 3.5 GPA and have been in commercial property management for both a REIT and for a developer, and have been a commercial broker for the last 1.5 years. So I have about 5 years CRE experience. I noticed everyone talking about MIT, Columbia, NYU, UCS and Harvard. What is the criteria to get into these schools? Honestly, I went to ASU not exactly known for outstanding academics. Would it help or hurt that I am a women in a very male dominated field?

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    I have been a commercial real estate broker for the last 5 years and am looking to go back to school. I am interested in one year programs because of debt, not working for 2years, etc.

    My goals are as follows:
    1. Get an MSRE in one year program
    2. Work for a developer and/or real estate fund for 4 to 5 years (build network/contacts)
    3. Open my own full service real estate firm in 6 to 7 years in my hometown of the SC coast

    The only reason I am concerned with program status is so that I can get to step #2, otherwise I just want the RE knowledge and MSRE on my business card. I dont think I am a top tier guy, as my GPA 2.9 (no GMAT yet) from a small liberal arts school (not much focus in college years). My work experience is pretty valuable with a number of closed transactions some of which were pretty complex.

    I guess my ultimate question through this rambling would be given my goals and situation....Where would you go to get the most bang for your buck?

    Thanks

  20. #20
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    Been working in v small distressed RE assets company for about 1 yr. Before that worked for about 7 yrs as architectural designer.
    Won or placed in handful of national competitions. Worked overseas for few years for one of the top 3 architects in Europe.
    Ran my own office for a couple years fishing for a big project but unfortunately couldnt reel one in. Financed the office's operations by playing poker on wknds.
    Undergrad and grad Ivy degrees. 3.0 GPA. 690 GMAT.

    Applying to USC and MIT. Down the line looking to get into spec SFD houses/ condo construction but since noone is building anything for a while... for now trying to put together some money for a distressed assets fund as my limited bank contacts say there will be a ton of distressed stuff coming to market whether non performing loans, REO's. It's def going to be hard as me and my partners have limited experience and investment capital but we have a pretty good understanding of the market here and a decent contact base. The issue is raising enough cash.
    Last edited by greenlander; 10 Mar 2009 at 3:18 AM.

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