Urban planning community

+ Reply to thread
Results 1 to 11 of 11

Thread: Separated bike lane or multi use lanes on roadside ditch road sections

  1. #1
    Cyburbian Tide's avatar
    Registered
    Oct 2005
    Location
    The Gig City
    Posts
    2,677

    Separated bike lane or multi use lanes on roadside ditch road sections

    Does anyone have an examples or personal experiences with Bike Lanes or Multi Use Lanes that are separate from the roadway and also separated with a ditch or swale such as this:


    ____******___________***** ____
    path \___/ road = road \___/ path
    ----- ditch--------------------- ditch


    I know that is very rudimentary (thanks Cyburbia for not holding my spaces) but in a rural case here I'm going to attempt to influence the DOT and County Council to pursue a bike/multi use lane. However, I need it to NOT be part of the highway ROW due to the need of realigning the ditches and the associated costs there. But if I can have the path on the far side of the ditch I believe we can make it work. Any rural examples would be greatly appreciated.
    @GigCityPlanner

  2. #2
    Cyburbian wahday's avatar
    Registered
    May 2005
    Location
    New Town
    Posts
    3,910
    I proposed this same kind of arrangement in a semi-rural flood-prone area some years back (it was related to a Safe-Routes-To-School initiative). I was proposing creating swales that did not currently exist and establishing a stabilized earth "sidewalk" since local residents did not want conventional curb-and-gutter sidewalks. This is an area that is not planning to put in storm sewers for at least a decade, so they were looking for a way to provide safe walking space for kids after rains (without this, the street's center crown was often the only high point and so school kids strolled down the street after a rain).

    The project has not moved forward to any kind of construction stage, but I will look at the proposal and see if I referenced any similar projects you can use to make the case. Its a great solution, I think, because of the separated nature of the bike trail. In the proposal I worked on, public health was a big factor in favor of some sort of non-motorized mobility (diabetes and other diet-related ailments are unusually high in the area). That's another angle to argue in support of this arrangement.

    I'll see what I can find...
    The purpose of life is a life of purpose

  3. #3
    Cyburbian Iron Ring's avatar
    Registered
    Nov 2005
    Location
    In the "Interior".
    Posts
    90
    Just a thought... If I were going to do something like this I would try to make the pathway wide enough for two directions (2.5-3.0 m) and only put it on one side of the road. You'll have half as many side street crossings, driveways, property owners, etc... to deal with.

  4. #4
    Cyburbian Veloise's avatar
    Registered
    May 2004
    Location
    Grand Rapids, Michigan (Detroit ex-pat since 2004)
    Posts
    4,859
    Quote Originally posted by Iron Ring View post
    Just a thought... If I were going to do something like this I would try to make the pathway wide enough for two directions (2.5-3.0 m) and only put it on one side of the road. You'll have half as many side street crossings, driveways, property owners, etc... to deal with.
    Oh, no. Very bad idea. You'll have wrong-way cyclists bursting out of nowhere at all the crossings. And you're teaching wrong-way riding while providing a facility that does not facilitate.

    Better to get ISTEA funding for super sidewalks and put them on both sides.

  5. #5
    Cyburbian Iron Ring's avatar
    Registered
    Nov 2005
    Location
    In the "Interior".
    Posts
    90
    Quote Originally posted by Veloise View post
    Oh, no. Very bad idea. You'll have wrong-way cyclists bursting out of nowhere at all the crossings. And you're teaching wrong-way riding while providing a facility that does not facilitate.

    Better to get ISTEA funding for super sidewalks and put them on both sides.
    Maybe I'm imagining a much wider ditch/separation between the roadway and the path. I agree that 2-way paths should never be directly adjacent to a roadway, but seperated by a ditch or swale... no problem. I don't see how you're teaching "wrong way riding" if it is a two-way path separated by a ditch. There's no interaction between cyclists and the parallel road.

  6. #6
    Cyburbian Tide's avatar
    Registered
    Oct 2005
    Location
    The Gig City
    Posts
    2,677
    There is no way we can widen the road for even a few feet at this time to incorporate a bike lane. There is no shoulder (6 inches at most) along the road then a shallow or sometimes deep ditch section for stormwater. I am exploring putting the trail system on the other side of the ditch, thus away from traffic. I know I need 10 feet for a multi lane multi use trail, but if we just call it a "trail" we can be any width we can get.

    I found a good picture but can't attach it without being slapped for hotlinking a picture.
    @GigCityPlanner

  7. #7
    Cyburbian DetroitPlanner's avatar
    Registered
    Mar 2004
    Location
    Where the weak are killed and eaten.
    Posts
    6,247
    Quote Originally posted by Veloise View post
    Better to get ISTEA funding for super sidewalks and put them on both sides.
    You need to get away from the dark side friend. ISTEA begat TEA-21 who begat SAFTEA-LU and in 2009 we are going to have what is being refered to as 'Green-TEA' The program that you reference is the Enhancement Program.
    We hope for better things; it will arise from the ashes - Fr Gabriel Richard 1805

  8. #8
    Cyburbian Veloise's avatar
    Registered
    May 2004
    Location
    Grand Rapids, Michigan (Detroit ex-pat since 2004)
    Posts
    4,859
    Quote Originally posted by DetroitPlanner View post
    You need to get away from the dark side friend. ISTEA begat TEA-21 who begat SAFTEA-LU and in 2009 we are going to have what is being refered to as 'Green-TEA' The program that you reference is the Enhancement Program.
    I never did get a new Life Member plaque from the League of American Wheelmen. Nor a redact on my Effective Cycling Instructor certificate.

  9. #9
    I think your concept is great from a bike or ped users' perspective, but is it realistic to ask each landowner for an easement? Maybe you have $ for purchasing?

    In Austin, the Lance Armstrong Bikeway is under construction, and much of it is a two-way, concrete shared-use path adjacent to arterials (Cesar Chavez is a MAU-4).

    You could run into a design issue of the path getting too close to the ditch, because ADA (and common sense) would likely require a handrail.

    Is there a very active and strong users' group who could take on the project on private land, and avoid some of these issues? We have a few who have received permission to build trails, both with and without formal agreements.

  10. #10
    Cyburbian Tide's avatar
    Registered
    Oct 2005
    Location
    The Gig City
    Posts
    2,677
    Just an update, just before my untimely dismissal I came up with the solution. The local power distributor had an easement of 10 +/- feet behind the ditch for the entire length of the route proposed. After speaking with a representative of theirs they said they would be more than happy to allow us to pave a 5-6 foot wide hiker/biker trail. It would require some relocation of fencing, bushes, and some grading but that's as far as I got. The next step was to read their easement language and enter into some agreement with the power distributor or land owners if needed. The power distributor was more than happy to help us since that would cut down on the amount of mowing and maintenance under their lines. Hopefully the next planner can pick up and finish this project.

  11. #11
    maudit anglais
    Registered
    May 1997
    Location
    Odd-a-wah
    Posts
    6,586
    Quote Originally posted by Iron Ring View post
    Just a thought... If I were going to do something like this I would try to make the pathway wide enough for two directions (2.5-3.0 m) and only put it on one side of the road. You'll have half as many side street crossings, driveways, property owners, etc... to deal with.
    Yes, we recommended this approach for some recent guidelines link, with a pathway on one side only. Look for the village residential cross-section. It does require a huge ROW to accommodate.

+ Reply to thread

More at Cyburbia

  1. Why not use bike lanes?
    Transportation Planning
    Replies: 41
    Last post: 03 Feb 2009, 11:06 PM
  2. Bike lane hardship
    Transportation Planning
    Replies: 4
    Last post: 20 Dec 2007, 7:51 AM
  3. Roadside ditch culverts
    Land Use and Zoning
    Replies: 5
    Last post: 24 Nov 2006, 12:32 PM
  4. Road cross-sections with bike lanes
    Transportation Planning
    Replies: 14
    Last post: 02 Mar 2006, 2:11 PM
  5. Bike Lanes in your community.
    Transportation Planning
    Replies: 17
    Last post: 12 Apr 2004, 1:56 PM