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Thread: More angry: liberals or conservatives?

  1. #26
    Cyburbian otterpop's avatar
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    The point I was trying to make about liberal and conservative talking heads is that, I believe IMHO, the reason conservative talking heads prosper and liberal talking heads do not prosper is because conservatives are angrier and love to stew in their own juices publicly, so to speak. Liberals tend to want to rant in small groups, usually among fellow liberals (at the water cooler or the Unitarian church .) Conservatives like a bigger, more public venues for their rants.

    I believe the recent success of Oberman and Maddow is due to things being so messed up by the Current Administration that the outrage has boiled over. Depending on the outcome of the election and whether things get better, I think the liberal talking heads may find thier audience will move on. Liberals listen to NPR not AM radio.

    Another generalization I will throw out is that I believe that liberals are more likely to seek change locally, so are more involved in local rather than the national political agendas. Conservatives focus more on national issues (defense, terrorism, immigration, abortion, energy policy). It is harder for liberal talking heads to keep an audience when talking about community outreach programs, recycling and alternative transporation. It is easier to keep an audience when discussing "Big Ticket" items like right to life vs right to choose or terrorism.

    Liberal talking heads find it harder to get steady listenership, because us liberals are busy tie-dying our shirts, going to the food co-op, adhering to our macro-biotics diets, attending Burning Man and taking the old lady to her Wiccan meeting.

    Whew! Where would I find the time for AM radio?
    "I am very good at reading women, but I get into trouble for using the Braille method."

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  2. #27
    Cyburbian TexanOkie's avatar
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    Quote Originally posted by otterpop View post
    The point I was trying to make about liberal and conservative talking heads is that, I believe IMHO, the reason conservative talking heads prosper and liberal talking heads do not prosper is because conservatives are angrier and love to stew in their own juices publicly, so to speak. Liberals tend to want to rant in small groups, usually among fellow liberals (at the water cooler or the Unitarian church .) Conservatives like a bigger, more public venues for their rants.
    Hm. That actually is a very good analysis and might explain why conservatives do do so well in radio, and more importantly, why liberals do so well in internet communities, blogs,and newspapers (sorry, couldn't resist).

  3. #28
    Cyburbian CJC's avatar
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    Quote Originally posted by TexanOkie View post
    Hm. That actually is a very good analysis and might explain why conservatives do do so well in radio, and more importantly, why liberals do so well in internet communities, blogs,and newspapers (sorry, couldn't resist).
    The vast right wing conspiracy has to be kept in check by the liberal media, don'tcha know?
    Two wrongs don't necessarily make a right, but three lefts do.

  4. #29
    Cyburbian TexanOkie's avatar
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    Quote Originally posted by CJC View post
    The vast right wing conspiracy has to be kept in check by the liberal media, don'tcha know?
    I think it's a fair assumption that Television media is not included in this analysis, and that the three mediums I mentioned do tend to be smaller groups (and in the case of newspapers, declining numbers).

  5. #30
    Cyburbian Brocktoon's avatar
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    Quote Originally posted by illinoisplanner View post
    Well, at a debate of college students the other night, an extremely liberal member of the audience challenged one of us Republicans to a fight when one of us Republicans said spreading the wealth was the equivalent of Socialism and Joseph Stalin. Whenever you prove the liberals wrong, they always resort to violence when they can't come up with anything better. I've seen this time and again. I'd never resort to violence like that...it's so childish.

    Liberals are so hypocritcal. They claim to be all peace and love, but if you really look at them at these anti-war rallies, they're throwing rocks at people and setting things on fire. Republicans generally aren't known for protesting...and even when they are, they don't do so in such a violent and angry manner.
    Yes all liberals challenge others to fights when they can not substantiate there arguments...that is probably the most ridiculous claim you have ever made.

    And the conservative movement is never hypocritical, they are pro life until the person is out of the womb then they are on there own...freedom of speech only applies to speech they love...they are against government intervention until it flies in the face of making government so small that it fits into the bedroom...ie Terry Schiavo, anti sodomy laws...they are all for war, unless they have to serve...they call other elitist but they are the ones most likely to join exclusive clubs and organizations, live in gated communities...
    "If you don't like change, you're going to like irrelevance even less" General Eric Shinseki

  6. #31
    Cyburbian wahday's avatar
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    Quote Originally posted by illinoisplanner View post
    Whenever you prove the liberals wrong, they always resort to violence when they can't come up with anything better. I've seen this time and again...Liberals are so hypocritcal. They claim to be all peace and love, but if you really look at them at these anti-war rallies, they're throwing rocks at people and setting things on fire.
    Oh, the tears are still in my eyes from laughter. That was a good one. I love blanket statements. They wrap me in the cuddly warmth of generalizations and reduce me to a mere stereotype. Mmmm

    Why, just last week, my liberal friends and I went out and beat up some Republicans after they made a good point that we couldn't refute. Damn them!

    Then, we went to a protest and looted downtown. Good fun. I'd like to say I didn't participate, but since we "always resort to violence when we can't come up with anything better" I guess I couldn't help myself.
    The purpose of life is a life of purpose

  7. #32
    Cyburbian TexanOkie's avatar
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    Quote Originally posted by Brocktoon View post
    Yes all liberals challenge others to fights when they can not substantiate there arguments...that is probably the most ridiculous claim you have ever made.

    And the conservative movement is never hypocritical, they are pro life until the person is out of the womb then they are on there own...freedom of speech only applies to speech they love...they are against government intervention until it flies in the face of making government so small that it fits into the bedroom...ie Terry Schiavo, anti sodomy laws...they are all for war, unless they have to serve...they call other elitist but they are the ones most likely to join exclusive clubs and organizations, live in gated communities...
    I do hope that last paragraph was tongue-in-cheek...

  8. #33
    Cyburbian illinoisplanner's avatar
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    Quote Originally posted by wahday View post
    Oh, the tears are still in my eyes from laughter. That was a good one. I love blanket statements. They wrap me in the cuddly warmth of generalizations and reduce me to a mere stereotype. Mmmm

    Why, just last week, my liberal friends and I went out and beat up some Republicans after they made a good point that we couldn't refute. Damn them!

    Then, we went to a protest and looted downtown. Good fun. I'd like to say I didn't participate, but since we "always resort to violence when we can't come up with anything better" I guess I couldn't help myself.
    Quote Originally posted by Brocktoon View post
    Yes all liberals challenge others to fights when they can not substantiate there arguments...that is probably the most ridiculous claim you have ever made.

    And the conservative movement is never hypocritical, they are pro life until the person is out of the womb then they are on there own...freedom of speech only applies to speech they love...they are against government intervention until it flies in the face of making government so small that it fits into the bedroom...ie Terry Schiavo, anti sodomy laws...they are all for war, unless they have to serve...they call other elitist but they are the ones most likely to join exclusive clubs and organizations, live in gated communities...
    OK, that's the other thing. If they don't challenge someone to a fight when they're proven wrong, they say things like "that is the most ridiculous thing", "that's absurd", "you are a moron", "LOL...that's so funny", and other such statements like the ones you just replied with. No, instead of having a spirited debate, liberals ridicule the other side when they can't come up with anything better.

    Oh yeah, and the liberal CEOs who donate money to Obama's campaign don't live in gated communities or join exclusive clubs either? Yeah right. And excuse me...all for war until they have to serve? I know probably a dozen people who are staunch Republicans that have served in Iraq or Afghanistan who believe we need to stay and fight and win it. It's no surprise that two-thirds of the troops supported Bush and support McCain. And we are pro-life, and then once they're out of the womb...they are on their own! That's cause we live in America, where people are supposed to be free and supposed to be responsible for themselves and their destinies...not given government handouts.
    "Life's a journey, not a destination"
    -Steven Tyler

  9. #34
    Moderator note:
    Getting a little warm in here folks. That's okay, so long as we debate the idea and not let it get personal. Carry on.
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  10. #35
    Cyburbian CJC's avatar
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    Quote Originally posted by illinoisplanner View post
    OK, that's the other thing. If they don't challenge someone to a fight when they're proven wrong, they say things like "that is the most ridiculous thing", "that's absurd", "you are a moron", "LOL...that's so funny", and other such statements like the ones you just replied with. No, instead of having a spirited debate, liberals ridicule the other side when they can't come up with anything better.
    I believe they were ridiculing the ridicule with snide remarks not meant to be taken seriously.
    Two wrongs don't necessarily make a right, but three lefts do.

  11. #36
    Cyburbian wahday's avatar
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    Quote Originally posted by illinoisplanner View post
    OK, that's the other thing. If they don't challenge someone to a fight when they're proven wrong, they say things like "that is the most ridiculous thing", "that's absurd", "you are a moron", "LOL...that's so funny", and other such statements like the ones you just replied with. No, instead of having a spirited debate, liberals ridicule the other side when they can't come up with anything better.
    Whoa! Hey IP, I'm not trying to get you worked up. If you post something about health care, voting rights, economics, the wars, liberal and conservative ideologies, etc., I am happy to debate, discuss, agree, disagree. I don't hate you or think you are a moron. I do think that your comments are framed so generally and provocatively that it makes discussion difficult. But that is just my opinion. Its all good. I'm not trying to upset you. I was just trying to find a subtle/humorous way of suggesting that stereotypes and generalizations are unlikely to result in substantive discussion. Take that as you will. Sorry if I antagonized, man...

    If you look at my other posts, you will see that I am very on-message and engaged in substantive discussion even - gasp! - with conservative members of Cyburbia. I am also gracious, polite and respectful. Seriously. I'm a very nice, conversational guy. Try me.

    Personally, I don't think qualities like snarky comments, sarcasm, insults or violence are unique to liberals, let alone ALL liberals. They are just human. But, hey, that's just my opinion...
    The purpose of life is a life of purpose

  12. #37
    Cyburbian illinoisplanner's avatar
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    Quote Originally posted by wahday View post
    Whoa! Hey IP, I'm not trying to get you worked up. If you post something about health care, voting rights, economics, the wars, liberal and conservative ideologies, etc., I am happy to debate, discuss, agree, disagree. I don't hate you or think you are a moron. I do think that your comments are framed so generally and provocatively that it makes discussion difficult. But that is just my opinion. Its all good. I'm not trying to upset you. I was just trying to find a subtle/humorous way of suggesting that stereotypes and generalizations are unlikely to result in substantive discussion. Take that as you will. Sorry if I antagonized, man...

    If you look at my other posts, you will see that I am very on-message and engaged in substantive discussion even - gasp! - with conservative members of Cyburbia. I am also gracious, polite and respectful. Seriously. I'm a very nice, conversational guy. Try me.

    Personally, I don't think qualities like snarky comments, sarcasm, insults or violence are unique to liberals, let alone ALL liberals. They are just human. But, hey, that's just my opinion...
    No problem. Sorry, emotions are running high these days. It's tough being a conservative Republican on a college campus in Obama's home state four or five days out from this election.

    My original comments weren't intended to be a generalization that applied to ALL liberals. Never once do I think I said "all" liberals act that way. I was just saying that some liberals are more inclined to act that way than conservatives. Most of the time, I may see some conservatives get fired up verbally when debating or rallying, but I usually don't see them resorting to violence or namecalling as often as I see it among liberals. I'm sure there are a few conservatives who may act that way, but it seems more common and more mainstream to see liberals acting that way. It's just my viewpoint.
    "Life's a journey, not a destination"
    -Steven Tyler

  13. #38
    Cyburbian CJC's avatar
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    Quote Originally posted by illinoisplanner View post
    No problem. Sorry, emotions are running high these days. It's tough being a conservative Republican on a college campus in Obama's home state four or five days out from this election.

    My original comments weren't intended to be a generalization that applied to ALL liberals. Never once do I think I said "all" liberals act that way. I was just saying that some liberals are more inclined to act that way than conservatives. Most of the time, I may see some conservatives get fired up verbally when debating or rallying, but I usually don't see them resorting to violence or namecalling as often as I see it among liberals. I'm sure there are a few conservatives who may act that way, but it seems more common and more mainstream to see liberals acting that way. It's just my viewpoint.
    I think that your first paragraph explains your second. You're around many, many more liberals than conservatives, so you're going to see more bad behavior from liberals - especially if you have a preconceived notion that "they" are wrong about many things. Just my thoughts.
    Two wrongs don't necessarily make a right, but three lefts do.

  14. #39
    Cyburbian btrage's avatar
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    I think this whole sub-discussion about who is more violent is ridiculous. Violence does not know political ideology.

    Honestly, I think everyone is angry right now at the direction of the country. Liberals and conservatives just have different things that get them more angry.

    I say shut this thread down and move comments back to the Presidential Election Thread. I can only see it getting worse.

  15. #40
    Cyburbian fringe's avatar
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    First, hilldweller, I have to admit that I haven't read any of this thread except your OP.

    Most of the posts here, yours not excepted, are too long winded.

    I wonder how you can pigeonhole James Kunstler as a liberal?

    I would color him as an iconoclast only. He don't march to nobody's tune. Notice, if you check his CV, that his background is journalism, and that he has no education in planning or design.

    Some of us just have good sense and a certain amount of talent/vision.

    I think right now, politically, that all of us have lots of reason to be mad about the endless war we have been sold. It is almost a lock-step retracing of Vietnam, though the casus belli was a little more elaborately invented and sold.

    I'd like to quote David Sedaris from a recent New Yorker piece about the "undecideds" in this election cycle.

    He said, to be undecided about this election is like being an airline passenger and being offered a snack by the attendant, who says, "Would you like the chicken or the puddle of shit laced with broken glass?" Your unsure answer would be, "How is the chicken cooked?"

  16. #41
    Cyburbian wahday's avatar
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    Quote Originally posted by illinoisplanner View post
    No problem. Sorry, emotions are running high these days. It's tough being a conservative Republican on a college campus in Obama's home state four or five days out from this election.
    I can imagine that is a challenge. But no harm, no foul. I'm not at our local university campus much these days having finished my degree a few years ago. Albuqueruqe is very Obamaphilic of late, but we are historically a fairly evenly divided state during national elections. Its my impression that many that voted for Bush in the last two elections are supporting Obama, but a good portion of these I believe are still Republicans or Independents and not folks that lean very left in general. So, the general mood is pretty subdued and tensions are fairly low-volume and not terribly polarized.

    I have not seen the kind of confrontation, sign stealing (of either party's signs) and protesting at events that some seem to be experiencing in other places, even though we are a battleground state. I attended an Obama rally last weekend and expected to see McCain supporters there as well (which I know both party supporters have been doing across the country), but there were none.

    Try not to be on the front lines too much! It'll all calm down within a week's time...
    The purpose of life is a life of purpose

  17. #42
    Cyburbian imaplanner's avatar
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    If the other side is full of racist, moronic elitists whose policies will destroy the fabric of America why wouldn't you be angry.



  18. #43
    Cyburbian Brocktoon's avatar
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    Quote Originally posted by illinoisplanner View post
    OK, that's the other thing. If they don't challenge someone to a fight when they're proven wrong, they say things like "that is the most ridiculous thing", "that's absurd", "you are a moron", "LOL...that's so funny", and other such statements like the ones you just replied with. No, instead of having a spirited debate, liberals ridicule the other side when they can't come up with anything better.

    Oh yeah, and the liberal CEOs who donate money to Obama's campaign don't live in gated communities or join exclusive clubs either? Yeah right. And excuse me...all for war until they have to serve? I know probably a dozen people who are staunch Republicans that have served in Iraq or Afghanistan who believe we need to stay and fight and win it. It's no surprise that two-thirds of the troops supported Bush and support McCain. And we are pro-life, and then once they're out of the womb...they are on their own! That's cause we live in America, where people are supposed to be free and supposed to be responsible for themselves and their destinies...not given government handouts.
    As to your first point I will refer you to the many former Bush officials getting "tarred and feathered" ( Richard Clark, Scott McClellan, Kenneth Adelman, Dick Armitage, etc.) rather than their criticisms being addressed. The reason I said your post was ridiculous because of the sweeping generalizations about 35%+ percent of the country...you further prove my point by your response. I did not refute your statement because that is not the point of the thread.

    My point on hypocrisy was not to say that liberals are not hypocritical (they are) but was to prove in a tongue and cheek fashion that so are conservatives.

    I could address and refute your points and how you misunderstood what I was getting at but that is not the point to the thread...I would say we are way off topic but your anger as demonstrated by your wild exaggerations is that you are angry...which is the crux of this discussion.
    "If you don't like change, you're going to like irrelevance even less" General Eric Shinseki

  19. #44
    Cyburbian mike gurnee's avatar
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    Angry? I merely want to spread peace and love.

  20. #45
    Cyburbian Brocktoon's avatar
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    Quote Originally posted by illinoisplanner View post
    No problem. Sorry, emotions are running high these days. It's tough being a conservative Republican on a college campus in Obama's home state four or five days out from this election.
    I can relate...try working as a stockbroker, in Scottsdale, AZ being a liberal...often it was a 5 on 1 debate and I was always in the minority. I can guarantee that I never resorted to violence, name calling, or the ever popular rebuttal, "your mom."

    Before the 2003 Iraqi invasion I was pulled aside by a supervisor and was told to keep my opinions of the invasion to myself b/c a debate in our PA office had got to a point where it was settled in the parking lot.
    "If you don't like change, you're going to like irrelevance even less" General Eric Shinseki

  21. #46
    Cyburbian The One's avatar
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    Hmm.....

    Let's think of it from a different direction.....(economy/national debt aspect only)

    When Clinton left office, it was like turning over the keys of a nearly brand new Mercedes S65 AMG to the new guy.

    The new guy has managed to wrap that bad boy around a telephone poll, just after rolling it 27 times immediately after doing an endo resulting from a head on collision. There were five people in the car....W, Greenspan, Bernake, ____________, and _____________.

    Who else was in the car? (This should be a new SAT, LSAT, GRE, AICP question right?

    I guess you can say we had insurance.....if you count the fact that we can always just print more money

    Now consider that all of us are the owners of the car......and tell me we shouldn't all be just a little upset.

    I didn't use an american made car for obvious reasons.....whatever company I might have picked could have been bankrupt before I finished typing this post.
    Last edited by The One; 30 Oct 2008 at 6:57 PM. Reason: I post what I want.....You can't tell me what to do!
    Skilled Adoxographer

  22. #47
    Cyburbian boiker's avatar
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    Quote Originally posted by The One View post
    Let's think of it from a different direction.....(economy/national debt aspect only)

    When Clinton left office, it was like turning over the keys of a nearly brand new Mercedes S65 AMG to the new guy.

    The new guy has managed to wrap that bad boy around a telephone poll, just after rolling it 27 times immediately after doing an endo resulting from a head on collision. There were five people in the car....W, Greenspan, Bernake, ____________, and _____________.

    Who else was in the car? (This should be a new SAT, LSAT, GRE, AICP question right?

    I guess you can say we had insurance.....if you count the fact that we can always just print more money

    Now consider that all of us are the owners of the car......and tell me we shouldn't all be just a little upset.

    I didn't use an american made car for obvious reasons.....whatever company I might have picked could have been bankrupt before I finished typing this post.
    I'll suggest that the car was in need of a tune-up when it was handed over. It was starting to sputter and wasn't accelerating like it was a couple years prior.
    Dude, I'm cheesing so hard right now.

  23. #48
    Cyburbian The One's avatar
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    That's fair....

    Quote Originally posted by boiker View post
    I'll suggest that the car was in need of a tune-up when it was handed over. It was starting to sputter and wasn't accelerating like it was a couple years prior.
    Agreed........ I'll even admit that Clinton had a lead foot and didn't wash the thing.....
    Skilled Adoxographer

  24. #49
    Super Moderator luckless pedestrian's avatar
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    I got this sent to me today - I have seen it before but I think it's funny (except I think there is still a 3 point spread for Obama to take it):

    Dear Red States:

    We've decided we're leaving. We intend to form our own country, and
    we're taking the other Blue States with us. In case you aren't aware,
    that includes California , Hawaii , Oregon , Washington , Minnesota ,
    Wisconsin, Michigan , Illinois and all the Northeast. We believe
    this split will be beneficial to the nation, and especially to the
    people of the new country of New California.

    To sum up briefly: You get Texas, Oklahoma and all the slave
    states. We get stem cell research and the best beaches. We get the
    Statue of Liberty . You get Dollywood. We get Intel and Microsoft. You
    get WorldCom. We get Harvard. You get Ole' Miss. We get 85 percent of
    America's venture capital and entrepreneurs. You get Alabama . We
    get two-thirds of the tax revenue, you get to make the red states pay
    their fair share.

    Since our aggregate divorce rate is 22 percent lower than the
    Christian Coalition's, we get a bunch of happy families. Please be
    aware that Nuevo California will be pro-choice and anti-war, and we're
    going to want all our citizens back from Iraq at once. If you need
    people to fight, ask your evangelicals.

    With the Blue States in hand, we will have firm control of 80 percent
    of the country's fresh water, more than 90 percent of the pineapple
    and lettuce, 92 percent of the nation's fresh fruit, 95 percent of
    America's quality wines (you can serve French wines at state dinners)
    90 percent of all cheese, 90 percent of the high tech industry, most
    of the U.S. low-sulfur coal, all living redwoods, sequoias and
    condors, all the Ivy and Seven Sister schools plus Stanford, Cal
    Tech and MIT. With the Red States, on the other hand, you will have to
    cope with 88 percent of all obese Americans (and their projected
    health care costs), 92 percent of all U.S. mosquitoes, nearly 100
    percent of the tornadoes, 90 percent of the hurricanes, 99 percent
    of all Southern Baptists, virtually 100 percent of all televangelists,

    Rush Limbaugh, Bob Jones University, Clemson and the
    University of Georgia. We get Hollywood and Yosemite, thank you.

    Additionally, 38 percent of those in the Red states believe Jonah was
    actually swallowed by a whale, 62 percent believe life is sacred
    unless we're discussing the death penalty or gun laws, 44 percent
    say that evolution is only a theory, 53 percent that Saddam was
    involved in 9/11 and 61 percent of you crazy bastards believe you
    are people with higher morals then we lefties.

    Finally, we're taking the good pot, too. You can have that dirt weed
    they grow in Mexico

    Peace out,

    Blue States

  25. #50
    Cyburbian otterpop's avatar
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    Quote Originally posted by luckless pedestrian View post
    I got this sent to me today - I have seen it before but I think it's funny (except I think there is still a 3 point spread for Obama to take it): . . .
    Thanks, LP. That is a keeper. I am going to send that along to a few people I know.
    "I am very good at reading women, but I get into trouble for using the Braille method."

    ~ Otterpop ~

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