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Poll results: But how long will it take for Obama to ‘fix’ the economy?

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  • One Day

    2 5.41%
  • 90 Days

    0 0%
  • 180 Days

    0 0%
  • 1 Year

    4 10.81%
  • 2 Years

    6 16.22%
  • 3 Years

    5 13.51%
  • 4 Years

    5 13.51%
  • 10 Years

    3 8.11%
  • Never

    7 18.92%
  • Other

    5 13.51%
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Thread: Obama and the economy.

  1. #1
    Cyburbian michaelskis's avatar
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    Obama and the economy.

    Many financial ‘experts’ stated that Obama’s economic plan would be better than McCain’s plan. I am not going to get into who’s plan is better because Obama won the election, and that is the plan that we are going to get.

    Obama’s plan was going to lower taxes on those who make less than $150,000 a year, break even for those who make $150,00 to $250,000 per year, and increase for those who make more than $250,000 per year. There are also some other adjustments to capital gains tax, business taxes, corporate taxes, and the like.

    But how long will it take? 90 days? 180 days? 2 years? What say you?

    Further more, at what point will the economy be ‘fixed’?
    Not my monkey, not my circus. - Old Polish Proverb

  2. #2
    Unfrozen Caveman Planner mendelman's avatar
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    I think it will take at least 1 year to get approved/implemented and another 2 years to show any benefit - therefore 3 years into his term.
    I'm sorry. Is my bias showing?

    Let's not be didactic in this profession, because that is a path to disillusion and irrelevancy.

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  3. #3
    Cyburbian The One's avatar
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    Subjective....

    I think at least four years, considering the economy is still in downturn territory He should act slowly in dealing with issues that could derail or distract from work on economic corrections. I think we can all guess what those areas would be.....the three G's. He shouldn't even tackle anything related to the three G's until economic issues are worked on.....

    Prediction: John Paul Stevens will resign January 22nd.
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  4. #4
    Cyburbian boiker's avatar
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    Obama will not able to "fix" the economy. In 4 years we will be in approximately the same place we are now, only on the very beginings of an upswing. The bottom will be about 1,000 to 1,500 points deeper and about 18 months long. It'll be a long slow upswing.
    Dude, I'm cheesing so hard right now.

  5. #5
    Cyburbian craines's avatar
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    Perhaps a definition on the term "Fix" needs to be established. What would "fix" our current economic state. It seems as though all solutions are based in some sort of "Vodoo" ecomomic practices (debt erasures, etc). It seems as though this economic downturn is the culmnation of years of bad policy coupled with the inablility of americans to reconigize that we have truley shifted from an industrial base economy to serivice/consumer based economy....D
    Looking for Sanity
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  6. #6
    Cyburbian CJC's avatar
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    I'm hoping that Obama can help fix some of the systemic problems that we've put into place over the past 25 years. If he can successfully do that, we'll start to see real improvements in five years at the earliest, but more likely ten years. This will likely be our "lost decade" similar to Japan's 1990s.
    Two wrongs don't necessarily make a right, but three lefts do.

  7. #7
    Cyburbian Plus Zoning Goddess's avatar
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    Jesus, Mike, we let GW tank the economy for 8 years, we should at least give Obama the same time frame to move it along. I don't think anyone could "fix" the mess we're in now. It's more about damage control. Today's stories on the news about the Big 3 automakers arriving in D.C. in separate private jets is the big omen. The millions paid for their salaries for losing companies could pay how many worker bee salaries? And the perks? They should be shot. The Ford CEO's wife gets to use the private jet whenever/wherever? These are the people who run the Republicans.

    This week, right now in FL. Republican lawmakers are meeting in a phat resort where rooms start at $325 a night, in "off" season. How callous. How ugly. How "I don't give a s*it, Floridians".

  8. #8
    Super Moderator kjel's avatar
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    I don't think that Obama can "fix" the economy. I think in large part that this will be a collective effort between Congress, the Fed, and the President to implement much needed changes of how business has been done over the last 15 years or so. It is not a Republican problem, it is not a Democrat problem, it is an American problem. It IS going to get worse before it gets better, my best guestimate is that it will take til at least midyear 2009 for the market portion to hit bottom and really another year to start creeping back up so that is why I picked three years since it won't be until then any noticeable change can truly be discerned. I also want to add that state and local governments should not be sitting around waiting for the federal level of government to put a package in place before anything can be done. They need to be looking at trimming their own budgets, streamlining work/processes/procedures/jobs, and looking at becoming more efficient with their resources so they won't feel the pinch so much when the federal funding to states drops over the next couple of years.

    My god I sound like a Republican! But, I figure if I am required to balance the budget of my own household, operate either at a break even or surplus level (the bank gets testy otherwise), that the damn government should have to do the same unless there is exceptional circumstance.
    "He defended the cause of the poor and needy, and so all went well. Is that not what it means to know me?" Jeremiah 22:16

  9. #9
    Cyburbian fringe's avatar
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    We have to get out from under the thumb of the Corporate State, which has already bought a lot of real estate in Obamaland.

    If we can buy GM just to keep it in business, we should be able to build a passenger rail system that will give GM that healthy competition.

  10. #10
    Cyburbian imaplanner's avatar
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    Quote Originally posted by Zoning Goddess View post
    Today's stories on the news about the Big 3 automakers arriving in D.C. in separate private jets is the big omen. The millions paid for their salaries for losing companies could pay how many worker bee salaries? And the perks? They should be shot. The Ford CEO's wife gets to use the private jet whenever/wherever? These are the people who run the Republicans.

    .
    To be fair- the democrats are the ones proving most of the backing of a potential bailout for the automakers. The republicans seem to be the ones providing most of the opposition to the bailout of those idiots.

  11. #11
    Cyburbian michaelskis's avatar
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    I just sent Carl Levin an e-mail asking him to also support a bill to pay off my mortgage and school loans. But then again I did not waste away my money on extravagant jets and such. I say that the auto makers need to take personal responsibility for their actions… actions which have screwed up their companies by giving into the demands of the UAW for all these years.

    Regarding the economy, is President GW Bush to blame, absolutely… but his name is on a very long list with both “R”s and “D”s. The top of the list is the heads of Fannie May and Freddy Mac. (One of which will be the Whitehouse Chief of Staff in two months)

    I think that it will get much worse before it gets any better and I think that no President will be able to ‘fix’ the economy. I think that it comes down to the habits of Americans. People need to start spending less than they make, saving money for the long run, and living like your going to loose your job tomorrow, because in reality, unless the economy starts to turn around, we might be loosing our jobs tomorrow.

    I also think that for saving, people need to start investing in the stock market with their own money. When something at the grocery store goes on sale, do you stop buying it or do you buy more? Most of the stock market is on sale, we know it will rebound. Just imagine the value of these stocks in 20 years.

    BTW, ZG, show me anything negative towards Obama, a democrat, or placing blame on anyone for the economy in my first post. I made it as neutral as possible because when all the arguing is over, we only have one president at a time. And while I did not vote for him, I will respect and support him and the office, even though I may not agree with everything he does.
    Not my monkey, not my circus. - Old Polish Proverb

  12. #12
    Chairman of the bored Maister's avatar
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    Quote Originally posted by michaelskis View post
    BTW, ZG, show me anything negative towards Obama, a democrat, or placing blame on anyone for the economy in my first post.
    You didn't go so far as to use the words 'so-called financial experts' in your OP but just shy of that your putting quotes around 'experts' pretty well broadcasts both your disbelief and bias.

  13. #13
    Cyburbian mgk920's avatar
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    Quote Originally posted by imaplanner View post
    To be fair- the democrats are the ones proving most of the backing of a potential bailout for the automakers. The republicans seem to be the ones providing most of the opposition to the bailout of those idiots.
    Agreed. Most conservatives want them to get the 'fresh start' without all of their current unsustainable baggage that Chapter 11 provides. To just shovel more money at them without any systemic changes only delays the inevitable, making it far, far worse when that time does finally come, and at great expense.

    The last thing that the UAW wants is Chapter 11 and thus the desire on the part of the liberals/Democrats to pass a full bailout.

    BTW, most of the top 'foreign' car brands that are sold in the USA are actually assembled in the USA and those companies are not in trouble.

    Next up will be when all of those 'crack cocaine' credit cards (you know, the ones like those pushed on unsuspecting university freshmen) start defaulting en-mass.



    Mike

  14. #14
    Cyburbian michaelskis's avatar
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    Quote Originally posted by Maister View post
    You didn't go so far as to use the words 'so-called financial experts' in your OP but just shy of that your putting quotes around 'experts' pretty well broadcasts both your disbelief and bias.
    I put the quotation marks around them because there was conflicting information based on which expert you ask. There was also some who were nothing but news reporters that list stock market results and have no formal education in financial affairs. Then there was Allen Greenspan who supported the changing the debt to cash ratio from 15:1 to 31:1 several years back. He would be an expert, whose recommendation at that point in time has now partly caused the economy to crash. More so with the exception of Warren Buffet, if they are such experts, why are they still working?

    I think that regardless of what I say, to some people it will be interpreted as a bash on democrats and that I am incapable of bipartisan discussion.
    Not my monkey, not my circus. - Old Polish Proverb

  15. #15
    Chairman of the bored Maister's avatar
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    Quote Originally posted by michaelskis View post
    I put the quotation marks around them because there was conflicting information based on which expert you ask.
    Sure. If you say so.

  16. #16
    Cyburbian Plus Zoning Goddess's avatar
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    Quote Originally posted by michaelskis View post
    BTW, ZG, show me anything negative towards Obama, a democrat, or placing blame on anyone for the economy in my first post. I made it as neutral as possible because when all the arguing is over, we only have one president at a time. And while I did not vote for him, I will respect and support him and the office, even though I may not agree with everything he does.
    Well, we just won't know until he's in office. It could be good. It could be bad. I am one of those people who doesn't really trust either party, so it's a "wait and see" with me. I just think it can't possibly be as bad as the last 8 years (and that would be if the new prez was Rep or Dem).

  17. #17
    Cyburbian Plus
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    Quote Originally posted by craines View post
    Perhaps a definition on the term "Fix" needs to be established.
    When quotes enclose the word, it's the polite form of "spay".

  18. #18
    moderator in moderation Suburb Repairman's avatar
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    Quote Originally posted by mendelman View post
    I think it will take at least 1 year to get approved/implemented and another 2 years to show any benefit - therefore 3 years into his term.
    Same thought process I had. Although I don't like to use the word "fix"... Obama can only try to create an environment condusive to economic recovery and to prevent some of these same issues from occuring again. Plus, he has to get Congress to play along (even with a D majority).

    On the auto stuff... the last thing UAW wants is for big 3 to go Chapter 11. I wonder if UAW will try to initiate something to renegotiate to avoid the potential for a full union-break during a bankrupcy. I don't know... being from Texas, unions are largely foreign ground for me.

    "Oh, that is all well and good, but, voice or no voice, the people can always be brought to the bidding of the leaders. That is easy. All you have to do is tell them they are being attacked and denounce the pacifists for lack of patriotism and exposing the country to danger. It works the same way in any country."

    - Herman Göring at the Nuremburg trials (thoughts on democracy)

  19. #19
    Cyburbian fringe's avatar
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    Conservatives I hear now are making their knee-jerk, completely predictable autonomic responses to car-company solutions.

    They blame labor, as usual, and say that bankruptcy will give execs the chance to reneg on all those exorbitant labor contracts, health care, and retirement benefits.

    Get labor back down to $5 an hour, living in company housing on the brink of starvation and by God they'll be competitive again!

  20. #20
    Cyburbian imaplanner's avatar
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    Listening to npr today they were talking about what the banking and insurance companies have done with the 300 or so billion (out of 750 billion) bailout money. Apparantly they have done nothing other than continue paying execs lots of money and using the money to buy healthy assets.

  21. #21
    Cyburbian zman's avatar
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    All I want to know is when will it be time for me to use nearby foreclosed homes for fire wood.
    You get all squeezed up inside/Like the days were carved in stone/You get all wired up inside/And it's bad to be alone

    You can go out, you can take a ride/And when you get out on your own/You get all smoothed out inside/And it's good to be alone
    -Peart

  22. #22
    Cyburbian jmello's avatar
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    Quote Originally posted by The One View post
    He shouldn't even tackle anything related to the three G's until economic issues are worked on.....
    Guns, god and gabortion?

    I don't think many people give a rat's a$$ about those things right now. I think his tax plan will be enacted within two months and we will see an improving economy in the second quarter of 2010, partly due to a major infrastructure investment program passed in the first half of 2009. This plan will involve major investment in energy infrastructure, rail and multimodal transportation projects.

  23. #23
    Cyburbian boiker's avatar
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    Quote Originally posted by zmanPLAN View post
    All I want to know is when will it be time for me to use nearby foreclosed homes for fire wood.
    "Fall 2009" sayeth Boiker.
    Quote Originally posted by 'burbfixer
    On the auto stuff... the last thing UAW wants is for big 3 to go Chapter 11. I wonder if UAW will try to initiate something to renegotiate to avoid the potential for a full union-break during a bankrupcy. I don't know... being from Texas, unions are largely foreign ground for me.
    My anecdotal experience with the UAW in Central Illinois was they will hold off on renegotiating till the bitter end as long as the company is profitable. If the company begins to sink or become unprofitable, they are willing to make concessions...although not without much fighting, bickering, promises of upper-level management changes and community turmoil.
    Dude, I'm cheesing so hard right now.

  24. #24
    Cyburbian michaelskis's avatar
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    Quote Originally posted by Zoning Goddess View post
    Well, we just won't know until he's in office. It could be good. It could be bad. I am one of those people who doesn't really trust either party, so it's a "wait and see" with me. I just think it can't possibly be as bad as the last 8 years (and that would be if the new prez was Rep or Dem).
    Other than the 'wait and see' part of your statement, I completely agree. The W administration has increased the size of government and the amount of money spent, even when you take the war out of the equation.

    As for the wait and see part, I have been very active in writing my congress people and senators asking them not to bail out the auto companies, encouraging them to require better financial education while in High school, and strongly encouraging them to cut the size of government. My theory on it is if the government is smaller and they spend less, they will not need to tax as much. That will give more money for people to save and spend, which will revitalize our economy.
    Not my monkey, not my circus. - Old Polish Proverb

  25. #25
    Cyburbian boiker's avatar
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    Quote Originally posted by michaelskis View post
    ....and strongly encouraging them to cut the size of government. My theory on it is if the government is smaller and they spend less, they will not need to tax as much. That will give more money for people to save and spend, which will revitalize our economy.
    I agree with your premise, however taxes have been decreased over the last 8 years and govermnet has dramatically expanded. There is no correlation between income/expenditures at the federal level. If there is a shortfall, new money is created to "balance" the budget.
    Dude, I'm cheesing so hard right now.

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