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Thread: The President Barack Obama Discussion Thread

  1. #26
    Cyburbian Zoning Goddess's avatar
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    Quote Originally posted by btrage View post
    Until you've walked in a black person's shoes, don't judge them. If I was enslaved for hundreds of years and denied basic civil rights up until a few decades ago, I might just vote for a white guy because he was white just as an F you to society. Focusing on shit like this only continues to divide and not bring people together. :- We're in the most serious recession in decades and you're still bringing up race.

    And honestly, Chris Rock is a freakin actor/comedien. Please don't take him seriously. He's probably just trying to sell tickets.
    It's not just a race thing, guys. Women were denied the vote for how long? It didn't make us automatically vote for Hillary. And BTW, nobody has been enslaved for "hundreds of years"; nobody lives that long. People are just sick of rich white guys being in charge.

  2. #27
    Cyburbian mgk920's avatar
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    Quote Originally posted by btrage View post
    Until you've walked in a black person's shoes, don't judge them. If I was enslaved for hundreds of years and denied basic civil rights up until a few decades ago, I might just vote for a white guy because he was white just as an F you to society. Focusing on shit like this only continues to divide and not bring people together. :- We're in the most serious recession in decades and you're still bringing up race.

    And honestly, Chris Rock is a freakin actor/comedien. Please don't take him seriously. He's probably just trying to sell tickets.
    Wow, call the Guinness guys - you know someone who's several hundred years old!

    Anyways, if you look into his lineage, you will find that BHO has *ZERO* USA slave blood in him and in fact, on his mother's side, has USA *SLAVE OWNER* blood in him.

    That said, I have NEVER been for or against ANYONE for reasons beyond that person's direct control - including any accidentals regarding his/her birth - other than for legitimate reasons (ie, the USA Constitution's requirement that Presidents and Vice Presidents be 'natural born' citizens - for that reason I cannot support some people who I otherwise do like).

    My objections to BHO stem 100% from his personal political views, his resume, his voting record (and lack thereof) and those with whom he surrounds himself (ie, the Chicago Political Machine™).

    And his latest 'stimulus package' discussions scare the beejeevers out of me. Keynesian economics has NEVER worked and this is pure Keynesianism on steroids. It is a governmental equivalent of buying oodles of kewl things, like a big new plasma TV, a fancy new car, the latest new fashions in clothing, etc and putting it all on credit. It all makes one feel GREAT when you get that stuff home and start playing around with it - until a certain federal agent happens to serve you with notice that you will still have to pay for it all - and pay more than you would have had you saved up and used cash. A LOT more.
    And the same will happen at the federal level with all of this misguided 'stimulus'.



    Mike

  3. #28
    Cyburbian
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    Quote Originally posted by mgk920 View post
    And his latest 'stimulus package' discussions scare the beejeevers out of me. Keynesian economics has NEVER worked and this is pure Keynesianism on steroids. It is a governmental equivalent of buying oodles of kewl things, like a big new plasma TV, a fancy new car, the latest new fashions in clothing, etc and putting it all on credit. It all makes one feel GREAT when you get that stuff home and start playing around with it - until a certain federal agent happens to serve you with notice that you will still have to pay for it all - and pay more than you would have had you saved up and used cash. A LOT more.
    And the same will happen at the federal level with all of this misguided 'stimulus'.



    Mike
    True Keynesian economics have never been tried. Keynes advocated dialing up government spending during downturns and dialing down government spending during expansions. The only time we've even remotely looked at dialing down spending was in the 90's, and even then we didn't go as far as Keynes advocated. Government spending is only a waste when it is not an investment - certainly there is going to be some waste in any infrastructure spending from corruption, etc, but at least it isn't all throwaway money like most entitlement and military spending.

    And no worries about paying it back. The Fed has set us up for some good inflation when we start clawing out of this - the extra couple trillion sloshing around in the system has to go somewhere.

  4. #29
    Chairman of the bored Maister's avatar
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    Quote Originally posted by michaelskis View post
    I wonder how the election would have turned out if all the racist people who said that they only voted for Obama because he was black?
    Okay, I never answered your original question Mskis. And now that I think about it you may be on to something. I believe your suspicions are correct. Racists, bigots and black supremicists were the folks who got Obama elected!

    Check out the polls for 2008 http://www.pollster.com/polls/us/08-us-pres-ge-mvo.php As you can see not only did lots of bigots announce they would vote for Obama throughout the year but the poll figures indicate the numbers/margins of those racists increased dramatically as the year progressed. By election night all those hate-mongers managed to secure 8.5 million more popular votes and 192 more electoral votes than McCain!

    It get worse, though. Not only did that all those racial supremicists and their sympathizers manage to usurp the oval office but it appears they also stole 8 Senate seats, 21 in the House, and scores of other seats in state and local elections across the country. How exactly all those bigots managed to accomplish so much undetected is something I'm still trying to figure out, but one thing all those numbers make crystal clear - race was clearly the decisive factor in the 2008 elections. There can be no other plausible explanation.

    Right now I'm also working on a theory about how feminazis engaged in sabotage and subterfuge to ruin the election too. When you consider how the GOP picked their best and brightest female from its leadership ranks for VP you would have thought the Presidential election results a foregone conclusion, but instead those feminazis used their agent Tina Fey to make it appear as if she did not have a grasp of the issues and was an intellectual lightweight unequal to the oval office. Based on the Honorable Governor's thoughtful comments during national interviews and brilliant performance in the debates (I entirely agree with Hannity's statement that she "mopped the floors with Biden"), we all know that's not true so I could use your help in proving otherwise.

    Mskis, you should go get some sleep now. I'll take over for you from here.
    Last edited by Maister; 09 Jan 2009 at 9:51 AM.

  5. #30
    Quote Originally posted by michaelskis View post
    I wonder how the election would have turned out if all the racist people who said that they only voted for Obama because he was black? It would be better if they said something like, “I like his policies” but more and more people (including Actor Chris Rock), because of the color of his skin.
    Are your grapes a bit sour M'skis?

    Obama won because of a mixture of a wildly unpopular president and Obama came across as a calm, dignified, thoughtful, intelligent person. Did him being a mixed race person have something to do with his election, sure. More African Americans probably voted than before. Did than significantly affect the outcome, probably not.

    We need to get back to the R's on this one. You had a president with very low approval ratings, who managed to pixx off most of the Country throughout his term is office. Contrary to popular opinion, people do have long memories, especially when they have been pixxed off. You had a badly sold, unpopular war and an economy that on the skids.

    Second, you had two weak candidates who tried to pander to the base elements of a very diverse political party. McCain was a moderate who tried to come across as a conservative, which failed. IMHO opinion, had he stuck to his moderate guns, he would have done better. As for Palin, there were better female candidates he could have chosen. Further, had he stuck with Ridge or Lieberman, two people he was more comfortable with, he would have done better.

    Third, McCain's campaign was poorly run. It came across as the gang who couldn't shoot straight. Some of what they did was downright sad. Obama ran a tight ship and made few errors. Add to this, that some of media did help. The D's finally had an answer to Fox News, which served to balance the media scales.

    Given all of this, the D's could have ran other candidates and still won. Hillary, Bayh and other candidates who didn't have a signficant downside, would have won. Race had some to do with it, but not as much as the conservatives would like to believe. The R's need to accept the fact that they are partially responsible for ther own defeat. The national party needs to do some soul searching, apologize for W and his crew, and try to discover the real America. If not, it might be a long time until they regain power.
    When did I go from Luke Skywalker to Obi-Wan Kenobi?

  6. #31
    Cyburbian cellophane's avatar
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    Quote Originally posted by boiker View post
    If unions disappeared overnight you can bet that many workers would end up with reduced benefits and pay in the morning. Some probably deserved.

    Without doing the research, I'm going to make a lot of assumptions (someone please correct me). I bet unions help establish overtime, a regular work week, middle-class wages, health benefits, retirement benefits, OSHA regulations and many other things that have become "the norm." Without them, who knows how long it would have taken to get these protections and benefits for all employees and if they were gone, how quickly would many of these benefits and laws dissolve?
    unions had a pretty big impact on those things, especially in the early 20th century. but now that big brother is involved in every aspect of the work world (apparently except financial regulation ) i dont see the benefit they provide anymore.

    Quote Originally posted by Suburb Repairman View post
    Want to see the importance of unions? Our two civil service unions (PD & FD) have had meet & confer for the last two years, and voters just approved collective bargaining. Those two unions pretend like we don't exist, and upper administration reflects this because they know we don't have any real power. We have employees that are paid 20% below market, which has resulted in a revolving door. Meanwhile, PD & FD are easily the highest paid of our peer group in the area. When they leave, they even get their sick leave paid while we can't get our entire vacation build-up (only get paid for a total of 35 days).
    sounds like a strong anti-union argument to me

    my roommate works for a mechanical contractor installing HVAC / plumbing systems in big projects (hospitals, schools) and the union trade workers make 2 or 3 times what the non-union workers make - for the exact same work.

  7. #32
    Cyburbian michaelskis's avatar
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    Let me clarify something. I think that it is perfectly fine that liberals voted for him because he is a democrat. There is nothing wrong with that. Being liberal has a set of standards and ideas behind it, therefore that is perfectly understandable and acceptable.

    What is not acceptable is the raciest scum who voted for him only because he was black, or voted for McCain only because he was white. I find it pathetic and disheartening that we have not evolved and that the color of a persons skin still matters.

    The black people who voted for Kerry, that is not raciest unless they said that they were voting for him because he was white, which then would pose the question how much different is Kerry skin color from Bush's?

    I look at people the same. If Obama was a conservative, than I would have absolutely voted for home without question.

    To me, racism is when a person bases a judgment on another person because of the color of their skin. To me, that is wrong.

    Who knows, if race was not even a factor, he might have won. I don't know the answer. I just find it surprising that people think it is ok for a Black person to say that they voted for Obama only because he was black. Color of a persons skin should not matter.
    If you're not growing, you're dying. - Lou Holtz

  8. #33
    Cyburbian boiker's avatar
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    Quote Originally posted by cellophane View post
    unions had a pretty big impact on those things, especially in the early 20th century. but now that big brother is involved in every aspect of the work world (apparently except financial regulation ) i dont see the benefit they provide anymore.
    However, unions lobby just as much as corporations. take their lobby away and the defense of the benefits and work rules they've helped establish will begin to erode. I do think some unions overreached and are now paralyzing their companies. But most unions are needed to keep tight-pocketed employers honest.
    Dude, I'm cheesing so hard right now.

  9. #34
    Cyburbian
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    I'm not going to apologize for it...

    I'm bitter, and I'm clinging to my guns, my religion and my antipathy to people who aren’t like me and my anti-immigrant sentiments and anti-trade sentiments as a way to explain my frustrations.

    Archie Bunker is my hero, and I'm not going to apologize for it.

  10. #35
    Cyburbian
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    Quote Originally posted by michaelskis View post
    Let me clarify something. I think that it is perfectly fine that liberals voted for him because he is a democrat. There is nothing wrong with that. Being liberal has a set of standards and ideas behind it, therefore that is perfectly understandable and acceptable.

    What is not acceptable is the raciest scum who voted for him only because he was black, or voted for McCain only because he was white. I find it pathetic and disheartening that we have not evolved and that the color of a persons skin still matters.

    The black people who voted for Kerry, that is not raciest unless they said that they were voting for him because he was white, which then would pose the question how much different is Kerry skin color from Bush's?

    I look at people the same. If Obama was a conservative, than I would have absolutely voted for home without question.

    To me, racism is when a person bases a judgment on another person because of the color of their skin. To me, that is wrong.

    Who knows, if race was not even a factor, he might have won. I don't know the answer. I just find it surprising that people think it is ok for a Black person to say that they voted for Obama only because he was black. Color of a persons skin should not matter.
    My point with Kerry was this - if 88% of blacks voted for Kerry, it's likely that at least 88% of blacks would have voted for ANY Democrat. So, even if some say they voted for Obama because of his skin color, it wouldn't have changed anything because they would have voted for a white Democrat if that was the choice.

    Also - Chris Rock is a comedian. Should we take Dave Chappelle's skits seriously too?

  11. #36
    Quote Originally posted by michaelskis View post
    Let me clarify something. I think that it is perfectly fine that liberals voted for him because he is a democrat. There is nothing wrong with that. Being liberal has a set of standards and ideas behind it, therefore that is perfectly understandable and acceptable.

    What is not acceptable is the raciest scum who voted for him only because he was black, or voted for McCain only because he was white. I find it pathetic and disheartening that we have not evolved and that the color of a persons skin still matters.

    The black people who voted for Kerry, that is not raciest unless they said that they were voting for him because he was white, which then would pose the question how much different is Kerry skin color from Bush's?

    I look at people the same. If Obama was a conservative, than I would have absolutely voted for home without question.

    To me, racism is when a person bases a judgment on another person because of the color of their skin. To me, that is wrong.

    Who knows, if race was not even a factor, he might have won. I don't know the answer. I just find it surprising that people think it is ok for a Black person to say that they voted for Obama only because he was black. Color of a persons skin should not matter.

    Sorry M'skis, this still sounds like so many sour grapes. You sound amazed that a conservative or someone who is faking it, didn't win the election. You sound like you are searching for a reason why the R's didn't retain power without realizing that the R's started to lose power in 2006. They just lost more power in 2008, the trend continued. Racism had little to do with. In your search as to why the R's lost power, you need to look at something besides race.

    Again, I fail to see what the issue is here. The R's lost the election. They probably would have lost to a white person, oriental or hispanic. One of the great parts of America is that we periodically change our leadership. Political ideas run their course. Bush's political ideology lost favor with the majority of Americans. The people in his party took the brunt of it. As to whether that was deserved or not, is another issue. Obama's political ideology will someday run it's course and those who enspouse it will be voted out.
    When did I go from Luke Skywalker to Obi-Wan Kenobi?

  12. #37
    Cyburbian michaelskis's avatar
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    Wow… I might as well be talking to the board of directors at CNN.


    Ok…

    Let me do this… I am angry at all the people who voted for McCain because Obama is black. I wonder how many of them there were and if they did not vote how it would have changed the election.

    Now read that statement and think about my original question.
    If you're not growing, you're dying. - Lou Holtz

  13. #38
    Cyburbian
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    Quote Originally posted by michaelskis View post
    Wow… I might as well be talking to the board of directors at CNN.


    Ok…

    Let me do this… I am angry at all the people who voted for McCain because Obama is black. I wonder how many of them there were and if they did not vote how it would have changed the election.

    Now read that statement and think about my original question.
    I don't think it would have affected a thing, because any state with a large enough population likely to vote entirely on race did not swing from red to blue (or vice versa) in this election. Also, as was mentioned before, I would bet quite a bit of dough that more people voted for McCain based on race, rather than vice versa - I certainly know of a few relatives in my family (redneck bigots from central Louisiana - don't worry, they would see that description as a compliment) that went out of their way to vote in this election, where they haven't cared before, and they voted entirely on race (and Obama didn't quite get their vote).

    All that said, I hear what you're saying, but I think you're grasping at straws. There is no evidence whatsoever that Obama won because of race. Just remember how close 2000 and 2004 were - the D's only really needed to keep the states that they had and add one or two (depending on the one or two added). Obama added nine states. What is your theory - that the D's would have not added any states if Obama wasn't black? Or that they would have gained Iowa and Pennsylvania maybe, but lost Oregon and New York? I just don't understand your theory, I guess...

  14. #39
    Cyburbian
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    Wait a sec...

    His dad was black. His mom was white. The way I see it, he's both. I think in most ways, we're all both -- and towards that end, it's meaningless to talk about it, since we're all humans anyway...?

    Maybe some people made their voting decision based on how dark his skin was, or how thick his hair is, or whatever -- you can't make people have rational decisions, you can just give them opportunities to grow. Some never will, others will get it and mature a bit.

    I do think it's a shame to look at how tough times are these days, and then realize the hundreds of millions of dollars that were spent on advertising for the elections. To me, that's just as disgraceful as the banking industry taking bailout money and spending it on executive bonuses and over-inflated salaries. What does it say about our elected officials when you tally up all the money they collected and spent on advertising, and then look at the folks in their districts going hungry because the soup kitchens don't have enough food?

    Some will say, that's what it takes to get elected -- I say, if they are willing to do that to get in office, I don't want them there. What makes them any different than the corporate CEO's that bleed millions out of the industries for themselves?

  15. #40
    Chairman of the bored Maister's avatar
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    Quote Originally posted by michaelskis View post
    Wow… I might as well be talking to the board of directors at CNN.


    Ok…

    Let me do this… I am angry at all the people who voted for McCain because Obama is black. I wonder how many of them there were and if they did not vote how it would have changed the election.

    Now read that statement and think about my original question.
    There were 3,215,842 people who voted for Obama for no other reason than the color of his skin. And yes, he still would have won by 5.5 million votes.

    So what is the purpose of your inquiry - are you wondering if Obama's victory was due to racists? Sure sounds like it on its face....I don't know how else to tell you this Mskis, but I can think of no other reason you'd ask. No matter how you try to reframe or back peddle, it comes off sounding like sour grapes from you. Think about it a second - what would your reaction be if I had posted something like 'I wonder how much bigger of a margin Obama would have won by if all the people who voted against him because of the color of his skin didn't vote'? You'd say it sounded like gloating in the first degree and you'd be right.

    A far wiser question to have asked would have been "I wonder how the election would have turned out if all the people who voted for either candidate solely on the basis of their race and no other consideration had stayed home?" Then you wouldn't sound quite so sour grapes for posing that pointless hypothetical. The message between the lines of my snarky sarcastic post was to point out that there was zero evidence indicating race played ANY significant role in the election because the GOP got their arses handed to them across the board in every category - they didn't just lose the Presidential election they lost Senate, House, gubernatorial, judicial, state and local elections too. It was rout even in those cases where two old white guys were running against each other. Obama probably could have showed up to the third debate flailing a scimitar over his head and shouting "Death to America" and still have beaten McCain.
    Last edited by Maister; 13 Jan 2009 at 8:10 AM.

  16. #41
    Cyburbian
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    Quote Originally posted by cellophane View post
    unions had a pretty big impact on those things, especially in the early 20th century. but now that big brother is involved in every aspect of the work world (apparently except financial regulation ) i dont see the benefit they provide anymore.
    Much of the reason that unions don't seem relevant anymore can be explained by a few things:

    1. The rise of conservatism in the late 60's, which really shifted into high gear in the Reagan years.

    2. The slide of the minimum wage from almost $10 an hour (in real terms) in 1968 to between $6.50 and $7.50 an hour from the early 80's until this year.

    These ideas together created a situation where union wages and non-union wages in non-white collar jobs diverged considerably. This created a scenario where unions only had bargaining power in industries with bad management (automakers), no incentive to really keep costs down (government), or places that were raking in cash (casinos). Other issues were at play as well and some other industries obviously still have unions, but my basic thought is that the drop in the minimum wage was the largest cause of several things - offshoring, outsourcing, the rise in category killers and discount stores (everything from Walmart and Target to Home Depot and Lowes to Best Buy and Staples), as well as the immediate thought amongst most Americans that anyone without a college degree doesn't really deserve to make decent money because they haven't "bettered themselves". We've directed almost zero federal money towards vocational or other educational opportunities.

    That said, I'm not as pro-union as that may sound, I'm simply anti-everyone-who-makes-decent-money-must-be-white-collar-professional. The policies that we've put in place over the years have simply made the only unions to survive seem ridiculous, because most of the unions that survived are generally ridiculous in the work rules and other things that they've been able to get through management or government. I've just never understood the people that will tell you that we need good paying manufacturing jobs, but are unwilling to even think about paying more to the guy stocking the shelves or flipping burgers.

    When we hear about distribution of wealth, we often think solely about taxing the rich and giving it to the poor. This is a terrible way to distribute wealth and grow a middle class. The easier way is to simply raise the minimum amount that we allow someone to be paid - which has trickle up effects on lower level employees and gives companies another incentive to be lean and competitive at the top.

    After all of that - I'm not convinced either way on card check. I don't know enough on the subject to say which would be better.

  17. #42
    Quote Originally posted by michaelskis View post
    Wow… I might as well be talking to the board of directors at CNN.


    Ok…

    Let me do this… I am angry at all the people who voted for McCain because Obama is black. I wonder how many of them there were and if they did not vote how it would have changed the election.

    Now read that statement and think about my original question.
    Don't you mean MSNBC?

    Like anvil said, people don't always make rational, informed decisions in the voting booth. That can be said in other decisions people make, it's part of our nature.

    To answer you clarified question, it wouldn't have made any difference. Those people who voted, either way racial, were probably a statisical minority. Further, how would you know what was running through a person's head when they voted, ask them? The only people who would have answered honestly are the wack jobs. God is the only one who know for certain what was running through the person's head. Further, how do you know if a certain percent of the racist did stay home and not vote? Either way, it would not have mattered. If all the black people who voted for Obama had stayed home and not voted, McCain would have still lost. There were enough white people, oriental, hispanic, native american, etc to make up the difference. The R's got their clocks cleaned this election because of the current administration. If you want to shake you fist at the sky, do it because of the people who voted against Bush. Now if these people would have stayed home, McCain might have won the election.
    When did I go from Luke Skywalker to Obi-Wan Kenobi?

  18. #43
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    http://www.nytimes.com/2009/01/12/us...s/12inaug.html

    This was just soooo Onion, but it's not. I couldn't stop laughing. Check out all of the pics, too.
    "This is great, honey. What's the crunchy stuff?"
    "M&Ms. I ran out of paprika."

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  19. #44
    Super Moderator kjel's avatar
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    Quote Originally posted by Whose Yur Planner View post
    Like anvil said, people don't always make rational, informed decisions in the voting booth. That can be said in other decisions people make, it's part of our nature.
    I made that point earlier in the thread. It's called Rational Choice Theory.
    "He defended the cause of the poor and needy, and so all went well. Is that not what it means to know me?" Jeremiah 22:16

  20. #45
    Quote Originally posted by kjelsadek View post
    I made that point earlier in the thread. It's called Rational Choice Theory.
    Sorry for the inadvertant plagerism k'jel


    Back to mskis, another point you are trying to make is that there was/is hypocracy with the race issue. You think that whites who voted for McCain because he was white are being treated differently than the african americans who voted for obama because he is mixed race. The whites are being judged harshly whereas the blacks who did so, are not. There is some truth to that. I also think you making a mountain out of a mole hill on this. It plays to the idea that whites suffer from reverse discrimination and are being persecuted, which has been a conservative talking point/scare tatic since the 70s or 80s.

    Instead of focusing on this kinda shaky idea, why don't we rejoice in two things. First, we finally took a step toward being a society where that doesn't matter. We may actually get to the point where we judge people on the quality of their ideas, not the color of their skin or their gender. Secondly, the American system worked. The majority of American who voted, for whatever reason, voted out ideas they didn't like and decided to change the leadership that enspoused different ideas. We are having a change in government without bloodshed or after brutal repression. The ousted regieme is leaving without nooses around their necks or in front of a firing squad. We suceed because we have a stable, if not noisey, democracy. This stability allows us to thrive and grow. This is one of the reasons we should all be proud of America.
    Last edited by Whose Yur Planner; 12 Jan 2009 at 11:02 PM.
    When did I go from Luke Skywalker to Obi-Wan Kenobi?

  21. #46
    Super Moderator kjel's avatar
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    Quote Originally posted by Whose Yur Planner View post
    Sorry for the inadvertant plagerism k'jel
    I think it got lost in the shuffle so no worries. You raise great points though.
    "He defended the cause of the poor and needy, and so all went well. Is that not what it means to know me?" Jeremiah 22:16

  22. #47
    Cyburbian boiker's avatar
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    Quote Originally posted by michaelskis View post
    Wow… I might as well be talking to the board of directors at CNN.


    Ok…

    Let me do this… I am angry at all the people who voted for McCain because Obama is black. I wonder how many of them there were and if they did not vote how it would have changed the election.

    Now read that statement and think about my original question.
    I'm angry at all the evangelical christians who voted for Bush in 2000 and 2004 only because he was an Evangelical Christian.
    Dude, I'm cheesing so hard right now.

  23. #48
    Cyburbian Plus Veloise's avatar
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    Quote Originally posted by nrschmid View post
    http://www.nytimes.com/2009/01/12/us...s/12inaug.html

    This was just soooo Onion, but it's not. I couldn't stop laughing. Check out all of the pics, too.
    Yeah you right. "Faux-Bama"!?!

    That Federal government, they rehearse everything. They sent Jerry Ford off here really well...AFAIK the box contained no stand-in.

  24. #49
    Cyburbian otterpop's avatar
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    Quote Originally posted by nrschmid View post
    http://www.nytimes.com/2009/01/12/us...s/12inaug.html

    This was just soooo Onion, but it's not. I couldn't stop laughing. Check out all of the pics, too.
    I know these are tough times, but you would think we could at least spring for a nice chair for the prez-elect. A metal folding chair? This is an inauguration of the Leader of the Free World, not a PTA meeting at the middle school.
    "I am very good at reading women, but I get into trouble for using the Braille method."

    ~ Otterpop ~

  25. #50
    Cyburbian Planit's avatar
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    Mskis, I read exactly what you're sayin' here. But let's open that box a little more.

    I'm upset with anyone - black or white - who voted one way or the other based soley on the race card.

    I am also upset with anyone - republican or democrat - who voted one way or the other based soley on the party lines (ie straight party ticket).

    I am also upset with anyone - male or female - who voted one way or the other based soley on the sex of the candidate.

    I am most upset with anyone - christian or muslim - who voted one way or the other soley based on P-E Obama's name sounding muslim and/or his association with his former minister.

    There are several more examples, but I think you get my point here. Anyone voting should take a more responsible view of the issues, policies, education and experience of any candidate. Were votes cast because the President-Elect has black hertitage - sure they were. Were some votes cast for no other reason than he is a Democrat - sure there were...and so on. This country we live in lets most everyone vote as one of our freedoms. It doesn't say that only those voters who feel educated on the real issues can vote. Most of the time the elections become a popularity poll based on some that an individual voter can identifiy with. For some its skin color, for others its faith, and for others its the economy or defense. We all made our voting decision based on something. Unfortunately some people - black, white, latino, asian or whatever - are narrowed minded enough to cast their vote on a single issue.

    As for me, I am having a party on January 19th, not because of Obama being sworn in the next day, but because its the last day of the village idiots reign of power - I mean G. W. Bush's presidency. AND no matter whether McCain or Obama won the election, I still would be having this party. But this isn't the 'Anti-Bush Thread' so nevermind.
    "Whatever beer I'm drinking, is better than the one I'm not." DMLW
    "Budweiser sells a product they reflectively insist on calling beer." John Oliver

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