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Thread: Secession

  1. #1
    Cyburbian Tom R's avatar
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    Secession

    I've come across some talk on the web about people wanting to succeed from the US now that Obama has won the election. Even disregarding the Confederate Secession, it's not all that original. I seem to remember that Vermont tried to succeed at one time and there was talk about Aroostook County going on its own. http://www.cnn.com/2008/LIVING/12/02...nts/index.html

  2. #2
    Cyburbian Bubba's avatar
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    Dade County (northwest corner of Georgia) has, from time to time, threatened to succeed from Georgia and join Tennessee.

    Quote Originally posted by Tom R View post
    I've come across some talk on the web about people wanting to succeed from the US now that Obama has won the election.
    No different than the folks who were mouthing off about leaving the U.S. if Dubya was elected/re-elected...
    I found you a new motto from a sign hanging on their wall…"Drink coffee: do stupid things faster and with more energy"

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    moderator in moderation Suburb Repairman's avatar
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    My dumbass Republican friend (I have several smart ones, so not a generalization about Rs) said he was going to move to Canada because Obama was going to bring socialism to reality with universal health care. I gently pointed out that he should probably check up on Canada's health policies before he moves.

    "Oh, that is all well and good, but, voice or no voice, the people can always be brought to the bidding of the leaders. That is easy. All you have to do is tell them they are being attacked and denounce the pacifists for lack of patriotism and exposing the country to danger. It works the same way in any country."

    - Herman Göring at the Nuremburg trials (thoughts on democracy)

  4. #4
    Cyburbian Fat Cat's avatar
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    Fat Cat

    Also in Canada there some who want to suceed from Canada because they think they are French
    A little humor there unless of course you are one of those folks or French

  5. #5
    Cyburbian
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    My favorite secession movement:

    http://zapatopi.net/cascadia/

    Of course, that would require some areas of the US and Canada to leave their respective countries.

    Another good one:

    http://calrepublic.tripod.com/
    http://www.petitiononline.com/casec/petition.html

    And the state of Jefferson secession movement:

    http://www.jeffpress.com/History.cfm

    This one isn't to secede from the US, but just for several northern California counties and a few southern Oregon counties to secede from their respective states to form the 51st state. After the recent election, this movement came back into the spotlight as several groups said that they were going to begin a large scale movement to make it happen.

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    Chairman of the bored Maister's avatar
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    Quote Originally posted by Tom R View post
    I've come across some talk on the web about people wanting to succeed from the US now that Obama has won the election.
    We touched on this once before, but I find it hard to take most of the secessionist talk we hear from fringe radicals in the US very seriously....that is, until the world starts to go seriously south and those radical ideas begin to sound a bit more reasonable. Other places in the world, though, secession seems almost inevitable.

  7. #7
    Cyburbian Tom R's avatar
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    Secession by error

    If you ever looked closely at the northern boundary of Delaware (But really now, who would do this unless you lived there for a while like I did.) it is mainly formed by an arc of a circle with its center in the old city of New Castle. Except the westernmost part of the arc turns west and follows the boundary between Pa. and Md. (The east-west segment of the Mason-Dixon line.) After a short distance, it then turns south. I guess it wasn't supposed to be that way. The line to the south was supposed to come directly off the circle. I guess it was a surveying error that when discovered left a wedge of land between De. and Md. claimed by both states, or possibly not legally in either. I guess there was talk of creating a separate state or country or something.

  8. #8
    Cyburbian Queen B's avatar
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    There was a point in time when far western
    Kansas
    Oklahoma
    and
    TEXas talked about forming their own state.
    It is all a matter of perspective!!!

  9. #9
    Cyburbian Plus PlannerGirl's avatar
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    Many in Northern Va have talked of breaking off and being the 51st state (sometimes with or without DC as part of the deal). This got a lot more press as the presidential elections played out to the point the Washingtonian did a cover story on the issue.

    http://www.washingtonian.com/packages/nova

    Unfortunately I do not foresee this happening
    "They who can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety, deserve neither liberty nor safety." Ben Franklin

    Remember this motto to live by: "Life should NOT be a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in an attractive well preserved body, but rather to skid in sideways, chocolate in one hand, martini in the other, body thoroughly used up, totally worn out and screaming 'WOO- HOO what a ride!'"

  10. #10
    Cyburbian mgk920's avatar
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    Hey BUN, what about Da YuPee and their sometimes desires to leave Michigan?

    Anyways, there is nothing (that I am aware of) here in the USofA like Canada's Bloc Québécous - an official Federal political party whose sole aim appears to be to break apart the country. They won 49 of the 308 federal parliamentary seats in the 2008-10-14 election, too.

    There are also fairly strong secessionist movements in western Canada and the latest that I am hearing regarding that election is that things are not going well at all in that newly-elected lower house - they can't seem to get together and form a functioning government.



    Mike

  11. #11
    Cyburbian zman's avatar
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    When are Texas and Hawaii leaving?
    You get all squeezed up inside/Like the days were carved in stone/You get all wired up inside/And it's bad to be alone

    You can go out, you can take a ride/And when you get out on your own/You get all smoothed out inside/And it's good to be alone
    -Peart

  12. #12
    moderator in moderation Suburb Repairman's avatar
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    Quote Originally posted by zmanPLAN View post
    When are Texas and Hawaii leaving?
    Is that any way to treat a friend?

    Now now... the crazies down here in Texas certainly don't need your encouragement. Actually, we're probably about due for another group of Republic of Texas radicals to hole themselves up somewhere in the West Texas desert again.

    "Oh, that is all well and good, but, voice or no voice, the people can always be brought to the bidding of the leaders. That is easy. All you have to do is tell them they are being attacked and denounce the pacifists for lack of patriotism and exposing the country to danger. It works the same way in any country."

    - Herman Göring at the Nuremburg trials (thoughts on democracy)

  13. #13
    Cyburbian Raf's avatar
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    Heh,
    California just needs to be split into 2 states already, northern/southern california. Damn SoCal folks keep stealin' our water
    No Signature Required

  14. #14
    Cyburbian zman's avatar
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    Quote Originally posted by Suburb Repairman View post
    Is that any way to treat a friend?
    I love you, Borther!
    You get all squeezed up inside/Like the days were carved in stone/You get all wired up inside/And it's bad to be alone

    You can go out, you can take a ride/And when you get out on your own/You get all smoothed out inside/And it's good to be alone
    -Peart

  15. #15
    Cyburbian
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    There was talk of california succeeding, and then inturn northern california from the rest of the state. If there is one state were sucession would work it would be california.!!!

    California just needs to be split into 2 states already, northern/southern california. Damn SoCal folks keep stealin' our water
    Maybe we can work out some sort of trade............wait a second the only thing we have is entertainment and deluted visions of grandure.

  16. #16
    Cyburbian Duke Of Dystopia's avatar
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    Constitutionaly, no states are leaving.

    BUT....

    What are the rules for sections of a state that want to become a new state, and what are the rules for counties wanting to switch to become part of another state?

    Is it even covered in the constitution?

    Just asking.
    I can't deliver UTOPIA, but I can create a HELL for you to LIVE in :)DoD:(

  17. #17
    Chairman of the bored Maister's avatar
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    Quote Originally posted by Duke Of Dystopia View post
    Constitutionaly, no states are leaving.

    BUT....

    What are the rules for sections of a state that want to become a new state, and what are the rules for counties wanting to switch to become part of another state?

    Is it even covered in the constitution?

    Just asking.
    There IS actually precedent for the Federal govt. recognizing a intra-state secession - West Virginia split from Virginia (ironically) during the Civil War.

  18. #18
    Cyburbian Raf's avatar
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    Quote Originally posted by craines View post
    Maybe we can work out some sort of trade............wait a second the only thing we have is entertainment and deluted visions of grandure.
    We can talk trade. How about some water for Fresno. Certainly that place doesn't belong in the north.
    No Signature Required

  19. #19
    Cyburbian DetroitPlanner's avatar
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    Quote Originally posted by mgk920 View post
    Hey BUN, what about Da YuPee and their sometimes desires to leave Michigan?

    Anyways, there is nothing (that I am aware of) here in the USofA like Canada's Bloc Québécous - an official Federal political party whose sole aim appears to be to break apart the country. They won 49 of the 308 federal parliamentary seats in the 2008-10-14 election, too.

    There are also fairly strong secessionist movements in western Canada and the latest that I am hearing regarding that election is that things are not going well at all in that newly-elected lower house - they can't seem to get together and form a functioning government.



    Mike
    There are times I feel that Michigan has stronger ties to Canada than to the rest of the United States due to our odd geography. I'm almost afraid to suggest we join Canada as SW Ontario because of all of the "Hip Hip Horrays" I will hear from all of you.

  20. #20
    Cyburbian mgk920's avatar
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    Quote Originally posted by Duke Of Dystopia View post
    Constitutionaly, no states are leaving.

    BUT....

    What are the rules for sections of a state that want to become a new state, and what are the rules for counties wanting to switch to become part of another state?

    Is it even covered in the constitution?

    Just asking.
    USA Constitution, Article. IV., Section. 3. reads (in part):

    "New States may be admitted by the Congress into this Union; but no new State shall be formed or erected within the Jurisdiction of any other State; nor any State be formed by the Junction of two or more States, or Parts of States, without the Consent of the Legislatures of the States concerned as well as of the Congress."

    A couple of years or so ago, there was an active proposal that was weeding its way through Congress as well as the two states' legislatures to transfer the City of Wendover, UT (and environs) to Nevada. ISTR that it was supported in both the Utah legislature and Congress, but was opposed in the Nevada legislature - the state's gambling industry lobby didn't want any potential new competitors for the existing casinos in West Wendover, NV. The impetus was to improve the economy in Wendover and the city's extreme remoteness from the rest of civilization in Utah.

    I have no idea of how that one played out.

    Mike

  21. #21
    Cyburbian Duke Of Dystopia's avatar
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    Quote Originally posted by mgk920 View post
    ....
    "New States may be admitted by the Congress into this Union; but no new State shall be formed or erected within the Jurisdiction of any other State; nor any State be formed by the Junction of two or more States, or Parts of States, without the Consent of the Legislatures of the States concerned as well as of the Congress."
    ......
    Thanks for the info. Ontario would be nice to annex!
    I can't deliver UTOPIA, but I can create a HELL for you to LIVE in :)DoD:(

  22. #22
    Cyburbian Tom R's avatar
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    short threada

    Quote Originally posted by Maister View post
    We touched on this once before, .
    It is amazing how short one's memory becomes. I posted in the old thread. [sigh] Back to the old rocking chair and Deep Purple LPs. [I]Machine Head[I/] rocks!
    Last edited by Tom R; 03 Dec 2008 at 4:02 PM. Reason: typo

  23. #23
    Cyburbian Zoning Goddess's avatar
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    The FL Keys seceded from the US in 1982. Y'all must have missed the story:

    http://www.conchrepublic.com/history.htm

  24. #24
    Cyburbian Emeritus Bear Up North's avatar
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    Da YooPee !!!

    The Upper Peninsula of Michigan has been a regular in the line of secession stories over the years. Back in the 1970s there was some discussion about the Upper Peninsula and northern Wisconsin forming the state of Superior. This even made the NBC Nightly News. (Not a live link attached, just a reference to the story.)

    http://openweb.tvnews.vanderbilt.edu...08-NBC-20.html

    The geography and economy of the Upper Peninsula and northern Wisconsin would favor such a state. Prime industries would be mining and forest products. Biggest service industry would be tied to recreation. Thousands of lakes, big and small, dot the tops of both states. Lake Michigan, Lake Huron, and Lake Superior provide most of the geographic boundaries.

    Residents in the Upper Peninsula have a real problem with professional football. Step into any tavern in the Marquette, MI area and you will find three separate groups.....Green Bay Packer fans, Minnesota Viking fans, and Detroit Lion fans. Being their own state (Superior) would not solve that issue.

    Should note that my fake city, De Noc, is located in the 51st State, Northern Michigan.

    Nastrovia! Trolls, begone!

    Bear

  25. #25
    Cyburbian illinoisplanner's avatar
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    Here's something different for you...county secession/splitting.

    There have been a number of secession movements where certain sections of Cook County, IL would form their own new counties in Illinois. One in the 1970s where the northwest part would secede. And another occurred in the 2000s where the southern part would secede. Both movements stemmed from suburban sections fed up with the Chicago-centric county policies which have neglected the interests of these parts of the county and have put them at an economic disadvantage. Both movements failed. More info: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cook_Co...sion_movements
    "Life's a journey, not a destination"
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