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Thread: Urban planner taken off Victoria skilled migrant list

  1. #1
    Cyburbian
    Registered
    Dec 2008
    Location
    Syndey, Australia
    Posts
    130

    Urban planner taken off Victoria skilled migrant list

    Anyone know why Victoria has taken the occupation of urban planner of their skilled migration list? I went into seek.com.au and their were 26 positions advertised for regional victoria in the middle of economic crisis? Is this Further proof that lobbying for planning is almost non exist? I see that PIA actually does lobbying for policy changes in terms of housing afordability, sustainability, etc.

    http://www.liveinvictoria.vic.gov.au...ate%20DR03.pdf

    Here is a link to one the NSW department of planning did...

    http://www.planning.nsw.gov.au/setti...port_nov06.pdf

    What is happending to the profession? It seems we are going backwards from the PIA inquiry in 2004. I have friends from the UK and North America in planning that are interested in migrating, but its almost impossible with the occupation of urban planner as it is not on the Occupation in Demand List. Experienced planners over 30 cannot get in under the current rules unless an employer is willing to sponsor them. And with the number of graduates from Australian universities deteriorating each year, what does the future hold?

    L

  2. #2
    Cyburbian
    Registered
    Feb 2007
    Location
    Bendigo, Victoria, Australia
    Posts
    27
    G'day expat123

    Anyone know why Victoria has taken the occupation of urban planner of their skilled migration list?
    No, but I suspect it was a budget decision.

    Why not ask the Victorian Minister for Skills and Workforce Participation?

    Is this Further proof that lobbying for planning is almost non exist? I see that PIA actually does lobbying for policy changes in terms of...
    Actually, the good people at PIA Victoria are extremely active when it comes to lobbying government and advocating for more (and on behalf of) planners/planning students. You are already familiar with the National Enquiry (2004) it seems? Why not scroll down a but further on this page and have a read of What’s happening in other States/Territories of relevance to the Inquiry’s findings? I'm sure you'll find that right across Australia, PIA are working very hard at raising the profile of both planning professionals and students alike.

    Experienced planners over 30 cannot get in under the current rules unless an employer is willing to sponsor them.
    Not sure about other employers, however I do know that the City of Greater Bendigo has no qualms about employing planners of all ages, and from all origins other than Australia.

    ...with the number of graduates from Australian universities deteriorating each year, what does the future hold?
    Which universities? At what rate is the decline happening?

    If my fellow planning students from La Trobe University (Bendigo Campus) and from other PIA acredited courses from around Australia are a measure of what the future holds in terms of exceptional quality, I'd say the future looks rather bright.

    Hooroo, Mark.

  3. #3
    Cyburbian Rem's avatar
    Registered
    Jun 2003
    Location
    NSW, Australia
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    1,530
    Looks like a dumb decision expat.

    Supply of planners is only to a small part a function of new graduates - bigger problem is experienced planners leaving profession for more rewarding or sometimes more specialised positions or to reduce stress.

  4. #4
    Cyburbian
    Registered
    Dec 2008
    Location
    Syndey, Australia
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    130
    Eco,

    In NSW, the unis are hanging by a thread for planning studies. UTS is losing money every year their planning program continues. NSW and Usyd are excellent programs, but again its hard to entice students in the Built Environment courses to take up planning, with the exception of architecture due to the lower pay and long work hours. Too many people perceive planning as just processing DA's in OZ, but there is more too it than that.

    I wasnt educated in Oz, but if I looked at degrees and what people earn with them I myself might have not chosen planning as a career field.

    Im glad your proud of your class at your uni, but like Rem said the stats are also biased towards people leaving the profession.

    The links under the inquiry page just talk about local government, state government acknowledging the shortage and conditions of planners.

    I find in Victora that they are creating a planning bank and scholarships.

    The rest of the State reports state the obvious and repeat the national concerns at a local level. I do not see many plans for action, but the ones I do see are YEARS old. The Inquiry was in 2004. The easiest thing for a state to do is put urban planner on the State Immediate skills list for immigration. This is approved by the State

    Rem.

    My problem when I worked at Council that the lack of planners just made more work for those of us that worked there.

    My theory is there is no set salary fields for planning. It ranges quite a bit. You could find 2 different people with the same experience and there could up to a 30% pay difference. The UK, USA, and NZ all have salary surveys. I have an international field of planning professional in my network. I dont see why it is so hard for PIA to educate the federal and state governments about planning.

    NZPA is a VERY small compared to PIA. They have put the profession on the Long Term Shortage List,made immigration requirements extremely easy, conduct salary surveys and mentor young planners. I think PIA means well, but the agendas differ from state to state. I find the Queensland PIA quite useful and "up with the times". Not only do they try to seek views and employ people from overseas, but they also provide mentoring and tips about loyal employers. They also encourage younger planners.

    I dont know anything about PIA Victoria other than what I have read from you. Sounds good though.

    My experience in NSW for planning has been so so. When the economic times were good, young planners jumped from firm to firm due to pay rates and work loads. Many of my friends made good money, but quit cause of the stress and long work hours. I even had a planner friend work at a firm for 5 years with long hours and little pay raises. He was actually a much better planner in terms of the NSW legislation than I was. The sad part is I made more money than him. Around Sydney many of the smaller planning firms have high turnover rates. Most young planners aim to go and work for a developer due to higher pay and more respect from the employer. The current economic conditions will also stop many planners from working in the private sector around Sydney, most are struggling to keep jobs and gain new ones.

    The sad part is it seems PIA NSW is more focused on the business end of planning. Mainly how we can process more DA's more efficiently (dont think this will be a problem in the current state of the marke). They even claim the planning shortage could be combated by having private firms assess DA's. I agree this is important as business owners create jobs for planners, but they need to take a more active role in responding to the conditions we work under and the supply of the planners. They do have a young planners group, but their events are usually sponsored by private firms that young planners leave within 6 months of working there.

    The fact that PIA cannot get the occupation on the federal governments MODL list after almost 5 years is sad, but the State lists (such as Victoria) are relatively easy as you just need to show statistics on supply and demand. How hard can it be to claim that the lack of planners is slowly down the development process and costing more money?

    On the upside this is THE opportunity Oz Planning has been waiting for to "poach" foreign planners as well as other professions. The economic conditions in the UK, USA, etc are much worse than they are here. I know of several unemployed planning professionals in these countries, some with PhD's that cannot get jobs in the current economic situation. Many are interested in coming to Oz, but due to the red tape its next to impossible and I guess the regional jobs in Victoria certainly aren't interested anymore.

  5. #5
    Member
    Registered
    Jul 2005
    Location
    Melbourne, Victoria, Australia
    Posts
    6
    Excelent post folks.

    My view is that in NSW/VIC the act of making decisions is being eroded to the politicall process instead of a merit assessment process. I briefly acted in a Victorian Council and the guidelines and policies I had to work with were opaque. Much more of a performance-based visual-design framework than a prescriptive meet-standards framework.

    IN any case, currently there are a lot of experienced planners chasing very few jobs. I think saturation has been reached and there is little incentive to open up to others.

    I also think the current slow decision rate in victoria and subsequent move of decision making to VCAT has lead to a poisoning of the waters for local government planning positions.

    The government responce has been to activate ministerial decision making for projects of state significance.

    http://planning.org.au/vic/images/st...afr_220109.pdf

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