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Thread: The Chinese want to emulate...New Jersey!

  1. #1
    Cyburbian boilerplater's avatar
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    The Chinese want to emulate...New Jersey!

    This is a link to an article about Chinese planners coming to NJ to learn about development practices here.
    http://www.packetonline.com/site/new...d=425695&rfi=6

    Though I'm sure they've gone to Portland too! See, we do have something to export to the Chinese! Our knowledge! That is, until they've learned all they need to know from us and don't need...us...anymore....
    Adrift in a sea of beige

  2. #2
    Cyburbian Plus
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    The article mentions our favorite APA program:

    The American Planning Association China Program has been active in inviting Chinese mayors and senior planners to the United States for professional training since 1996.
    Oddball
    Why don't you knock it off with them negative waves?
    Why don't you dig how beautiful it is out here?
    Why don't you say something righteous and hopeful for a change?
    From Kelly's Heroes (1970)


    Are you sure you're not hurt ?
    No. Just some parts wake up faster than others.
    Broke parts take a little longer, though.
    From Electric Horseman (1979)

  3. #3
    Cyburbian Plus Zoning Goddess's avatar
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    Quote Originally posted by boilerplater
    This is a link to an article about Chinese planners coming to NJ to learn about development practices here.
    http://www.packetonline.com/site/new...d=425695&rfi=6

    Though I'm sure they've gone to Portland too! See, we do have something to export to the Chinese! Our knowledge! That is, until they've learned all they need to know from us and don't need...us...anymore....
    If they're lucky they won't pick up those NJ accents....

  4. #4
    Cyburbian Emeritus Chet's avatar
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    Quote Originally posted by Zoning Goddess
    If they're lucky they won't pick up those NJ accents....
    Or maybe the Joisey Queens will take up foot binding?

  5. #5
    Cyburbian el Guapo's avatar
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    Let me say this one more time, " **** China"

    Quote Originally posted by APA
    Planning in China events span the U.S.

    You're invited to hear James R. Lilley, former U.S. Ambassador to China, speak on Sino-American economic ties at a banquet and reception sponsored by APA in Washington, D.C., on August 22. Sponsors are welcomed and will be recognized during the event. If you're interested in working in China, sign up for APA's fourth "Planning in China" workshop in San Francisco August 27-29. Twenty-seven mayors from China's Jiangsu Province, who currently are visiting the U.S. as part of APA's mayors training program, will attend both events. Student, new professional, and regular APA members qualify for discounts.

    learn more http://www.planning.org/APAinChina/workshops/index.htm
    Quote Originally posted by the FT.com

    Top Chinese general warns US over attack
    By Alexandra Harney in Beijing and Demetri Sevastopulo and Edward Alden in Washington
    Published: July 14 2005 21:59 | Last updated: July 15 2005 00:03

    China is prepared to use nuclear weapons against the US if it is attacked by Washington during a confrontation over Taiwan, a Chinese general said on Thursday.

    “If the Americans draw their missiles and position-guided ammunition on to the target zone on China's territory, I think we will have to respond with nuclear weapons,” said General Zhu Chenghu.

    Gen Zhu was speaking at a function for foreign journalists organised, in part, by the Chinese government. He added that China's definition of its territory included warships and aircraft.

    “If the Americans are determined to interfere [then] we will be determined to respond,” said Gen Zhu, who is also a professor at China's National Defence University.

    “We . . . will prepare ourselves for the destruction of all of the cities east of Xian. Of course the Americans will have to be prepared that hundreds . . . of cities will be destroyed by the Chinese.”

    Gen Zhu is a self-acknowledged “hawk” who has warned that China could strike the US with long-range missiles. But his threat to use nuclear weapons in a conflict over Taiwan is the most specific by a senior Chinese official in nearly a decade.

    However, some US-based China experts cautioned that Gen Zhu probably did not represent the mainstream People's Liberation Army view.

    “He is running way beyond his brief on what China might do in relation to the US if push comes to shove,” said one expert with knowledge of Gen Zhu. “Nobody who is cleared for information on Chinese war scenarios is going to talk like this,” he added.

    Gen Zhu's comments come as the Pentagon prepares to brief Congress next Monday on its annual report on the Chinese military, which is expected to take a harder line than previous years. They are also likely to fuel the mounting anti-China sentiment on Capitol Hill.

    In recent months, a string of US officials, including Donald Rumsfeld, defence secretary, have raised concerns about China's military rise. The Pentagon on Thursday declined to comment on “hypothetical scenarios”.

    Rick Fisher, a former senior US congressional official and an authority on the Chinese military, said the specific nature of the threat “is a new addition to China's public discourse”. China's official doctrine has called for no first use of nuclear weapons since its first atomic test in 1964. But Gen Zhu is not the first Chinese official to refer to the possibility of using such weapons first in a conflict over Taiwan.

    Chas Freeman, a former US assistant secretary of defence, said in 1996 that a PLA official had told him China could respond in kind to a nuclear strike by the US in the event of a conflict with Taiwan. The official is believed to have been Xiong Guangkai, now the PLA's deputy chief of general staff.

    Gen Zhu said his views did not represent official Chinese policy and he did not anticipate war with the US.

    Additional reporting by Richard McGregor in Beijing

    http://news.ft.com/cms/s/28cfe55a-f4...00e2511c8.html
    If China nukes a US city in the coming confrontation over Tiawan I'm fairly sure the APA will publish an article thanking them for helping us clear the sprawl.

    Our professional association is kissing up to a very dangerous empire. Remember this nation desperately wants to take the freedom away from 22.9 million people. Yet US liberals get bent when a SPC-4 makes a human pet out of a terrorist for her boyfriends camera. Yet we will hear nothing in the national press about one of the only near-superpowers in the world's general threatening to nuke us if we defend a free people whom we have promised to defend from military aggression. The press sucks and is a tool of the left.
    Last edited by el Guapo; 15 Jul 2005 at 12:12 AM.

  6. #6

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    Heck, I agree with EG on this one.

    Where I disagree is who the real traitors are. Not the weak willed professors (or the APA, for God's sake). Our very own ruling class-the Waltons, the owners of American industry-have basically sold our economy to China. We have cut our own throats.

    Luckily, I don't have kids.

  7. #7
    Cyburbian Boru's avatar
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    These articles below deal with an ongoing Chinese, and to a certain extent Japanese phenomenon. Whereas the Japanese develop occidentally themed parks for internal tourism, the Chinese are developing villages and towns along the styles of specific occidental towns. In fact I reckon Dan has been doing his best to confuse us by putting these developments into his "guess where" threads.

    Anyway, its seems that the Chinese planners dont agree with these speculative developments for the same reasons the rest of us wouldnt, they dont integrate with existing form, they are gated communities, little or no permeabilty, and they are all completely car driven.

    Relating back to the origins of this thread, my question is why are Chinese planners being encouraged to study suburban development in the USA. While the US has produced fine examples of cities, its adaptation of suburban garden city development is a world beater in terms of unsustainable development.

    Arguments regarding the ethics of China and its mistreatments of its people and others are all documented, and I can sit down at a table (real or internet based) and discuss this till' the cows come home. However I'm not going to do it on this post (time poor fellow that I am!).

    Regarding their study of New Jersey, and other suburban areas, this would seem ridiculous. I assumed the APA would try to show the Chinese examples of best practice, rather than how to screw up a urban environment (I'm not saying New Jersey is blighted, just suburbs in most places). Maybe they (the APA) are more Machievellian than BKM or El Guapo give them credit for, and the APA are sending over American-trained suburban-loving Chinese planners to gnaw away unknowingly at the structure of Chinese Society from the inside.

    Seriously, I find it more worrying that the Chinese could be adopting foreign models (especially suburban models) as a the way forward for development. The growth of sales of automobiles in China is astronomical. The last thing the world society needs is another society desperate and willing to fight for oil.

    Anyway, these are worth a look. I cannot find any images though, which is a pity.

    http://www.time.com/time/asia/magazi...025219,00.html

    http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1429483/posts

    http://www.zonaeuropa.com/20041225_1.htm
    (this one is interesting for the levels of property development and consumption taking place within China). The third article in this link is already posted above as a part of Time magazine.

  8. #8

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    Quote Originally posted by Boru
    Maybe they (the APA) are more Machievellian than BKM or El Guapo give them credit for, and the APA are sending over American-trained suburban-loving Chinese planners to gnaw away unknowingly at the structure of Chinese Society from the inside.
    .
    Hey! Watch it, Bub. I AM THE OFFICIAL CYBURBIA CONSPIRACY BUFF. You're stepping on my turf

  9. #9

    Do as I say, not as I do...

    I find it amusing that some feel it is okay to stereo-type New Jersey when they clearly have no friggin idea how progressive New Jersey is in planning, land use, and development controls.
    On pitching to Stan Musial:
    "Once he timed your fastball, your infielders were in jeopardy."
    Warren Spahn

  10. #10
    Cyburbian boilerplater's avatar
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    [QUOTEI find it amusing that some feel it is okay to stereo-type New Jersey when they clearly have no friggin idea how progressive New Jersey is in planning, land use, and development controls][/QUOTE]

    And I couldn't resist hinting at that stereotype in my title for the thread! I know better, and can rattle off the numerous ways that NJ has been progressive with planning.

    The Chinese are going to bury us, if we fail to do better long-range economic planning.
    Adrift in a sea of beige

  11. #11
    Cyburbian H's avatar
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    Hey, yo, back in Jersey we's did like ________.

    God help me if I hear this line one more time...

    What does this have to do with this thread?.... hey, yo, I dont friggin know, stop bustin my friggin b@lls and forgetaboutit.


    Sidenote: As a southerner I thank god for Jersey, because everybody needs somebody to make fun of.
    "Those who plan do better than those who do not plan, even though they rarely stick to their plan." - Winston Churchill

  12. #12
    Quote Originally posted by boilerplater
    And I couldn't resist hinting at that stereotype in my title for the thread! I know better, and can rattle off the numerous ways that NJ has been progressive with planning.

    The Chinese are going to bury us, if we fail to do better long-range economic planning.
    bp: it wasn't the hint on the thread that touched me off -- it has been some of the responses."It's like trying to teach a pig to sing: it wastes your time and it annoys the pig."
    On pitching to Stan Musial:
    "Once he timed your fastball, your infielders were in jeopardy."
    Warren Spahn

  13. #13
    http://www.cityofsound.com/blog/2006...rk_of_von.html

    Ambitious surely.

    BTW, guys, I just finished reading Thomas Friedman's book, The Flat World.
    Any discussion on it, here at cyburbia?

    B.

  14. #14
    Quote Originally posted by garethace View post
    It's Brasilia in a circle.

  15. #15
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    I always thought that the media was a conservative tool, and as a Southerner I always assumed that being from this region of the world was the worse thing that could happen to a descent human being. I wish most Southerners were as sophisticated and progressive as the people from New Jersey.

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