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Thread: GOP Plans For Our Future

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    Cyburbian Duke Of Dystopia's avatar
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    GOP Plans For Our Future

    Thank you mister Olberman for showing what the GOP really thinks about freedom.


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  2. #2
    Cyburbian TexanOkie's avatar
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    Mr. Olberman, like so many times, completely missed this one. There are fringe revolutionaries on both sides of the aisle. Also, it appears from the forum photos you show that it is a discussion on the nature of armed revolution, not necessarily specifically a declaration of intent, and why the concept appeals to people. Used to be the liberals have the revolutionaries wrapped up (see: glorification of Che Guevara, historic sympathies with communist revolutionary causes, silent/shadow socialist revolution ideology, and more currently comments made by Sean Penn on numerous occasions, etc) while righties had coups. These distinctions are somewhat muddled these days, though.

    I agree that these glorifications all seem to be in opposition to freedom, at least if put in application in the US. After all, the ideas behind the US, and the US itself IMO, to paraphrase Ronald Reagan, are the last, best hope for mankind.

    And like I said, based on your provided evidence, I don't see any GOP plans to conduct an armed revolution. Just people, who happen to be on a right-leaning web forum, in discussion on why armed revolution is romanticized or glorified.

    P.S. Even if these allegations were evidence of a genuine plot, it has nothing to do with what these people think about freedom. It has to do with what they think about this administrations policies and the federal overreaching on freedoms and law consistent with their worldview, similar to the last 6-7 years of liberals opinion on the actions of the Bush administration. Different worldview = different perception as to role of government and interpretation of rights, freedoms, and law. In this instance (the ideological divide in the US, not the revolution thing), both sides have good, merited arguments for their cases based on history, logic, and pragmatism. Until we either recognize the legitimacy of our "opponents'" ideology (doesn't mean you have to agree with them) or reconcile them to our own, there will continue to be such misunderstanding, distrust, and partisanship.
    Last edited by TexanOkie; 27 Feb 2009 at 4:36 PM.

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    Cyburbian zman's avatar
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    So... one guy posts to a Hannity forum and this automatically equates to the entire GOP?

    As someone NOT aligned with GOP platform, I find this to be a stretch.

    This thread should be fun to watch....
    You get all squeezed up inside/Like the days were carved in stone/You get all wired up inside/And it's bad to be alone

    You can go out, you can take a ride/And when you get out on your own/You get all smoothed out inside/And it's good to be alone
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    Cyburbian btrage's avatar
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    Quote Originally posted by zmanPLAN View post
    So... one guy posts to a Hannity forum and this automatically equates to the entire GOP?

    As someone NOT aligned with GOP platform, I find this to be a stretch.

    This thread should be fun to watch....
    I agree. I will be standing on the sidelines for this one.
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    Cyburbian zman's avatar
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    BTW, I am a left-ish leaning Liberterian-esque sort of thinker. As someone outside of the GOP, I too will be looking for the sign-up table of the nearest rebel platoon (when it comes to that). By virtue of my subscribing to the school of left-ish thinking, your arguement, my good Sir, has been blown to bits.
    You get all squeezed up inside/Like the days were carved in stone/You get all wired up inside/And it's bad to be alone

    You can go out, you can take a ride/And when you get out on your own/You get all smoothed out inside/And it's good to be alone
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    Cyburbian Brocktoon's avatar
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    The ranting of one misguided fool does not start a revolution...just ask Ron Paul.
    "If you don't like change, you're going to like irrelevance even less" General Eric Shinseki

  7. #7
    As a certified, card carrying liberal, even I will concede that you can't take what everyone says seriously.

  8. #8
    Cyburbian Duke Of Dystopia's avatar
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    Quote Originally posted by TexanOkie View post
    ....
    And like I said, based on your provided evidence, I don't see any GOP plans to conduct an armed revolution. Just people, who happen to be on a right-leaning web forum, in discussion on why armed revolution is romanticized or glorified.
    That was not the question "What form of revolution do you romanticize", the question was "What form of revolution do you prefer". Three options were given, each of which was of a bloody and violent method. I don't think you read the question very well, there was no romanticized notions in the initial heading question.

    It kind of showed how demoralized and hopeless the GOP is. Think about it. They loose an election and majority control for the first time in many years, after a good run of 28 years, and they are talking armed struggle. As if the goal of persuading their fellow countrymen was out of their reach. Maybe it is out of reach.

    I expect this kind of off the cuff scenario discussion to take place, especially in the fiction and sci-fi venues. I find them interesting to be honest. Seditious discussions are why governments have tried to control peoples use of free time. Because disgruntled people with free time run amok.

    However, coming from someone associated with a network that tried to turn a fist bump into a nation wide scare tactic influencing an election, one has to legitimately question if Hannity is giving ideas or facilitating discussion of sedition.

    Personally, I like how he personally decided against option #1 & #2. That left #3, Succession From The Union. All of this was rather interesting. Right now, the GOP is a regional party limited to mostly the south. How did that work for the South the last time?

    Now Hannity is not a brainiac. In fact he revels in the opposite, no pointy head for him. He obviously felt that entertaining such ideas was worth while. The last administration set up rules for how to deal with foreign and possible domestic terrorists. Maybe all the spying systems set up to watch US citizens should be focused on members or suspected members of the GOP. They could use the same rules, nobody in the GOP ever objected before. If any fringe member has a connection to a normal member of the GOP, then both are suspect. Any associate of a suspect should also be put on a watch list. Palin would be on the list because of her husband, a known secessionist. Everybody who has associated with her politically would then be suspect with no right to privacy.

    Lets hope free speech remains free speech. Lets hope that this administration can get around to exposing the domestic spying ringleaders and shut it down. Lets hope that the "fringe" members of the GOP are a REALLY small number.
    I can't deliver UTOPIA, but I can create a HELL for you to LIVE in :)DoD:(

  9. #9
    Cyburbian imaplanner's avatar
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    Hannity doesn't speak for the GOP- he just spends alot of his time parroting the GOP party line. I like to think that many pubbers think he is a wacko. I also don't think Olberman speaks for the demos. Olberman is also a wacko.

  10. #10
    Cyburbian Duke Of Dystopia's avatar
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    Quote Originally posted by Gotta Speakup View post
    As a certified, card carrying liberal, even I will concede that you can't take what everyone says seriously.
    So don't take it seriously. It can't happen here. But just for kicks, for fun, hypothetically........

    Some did think they could start an armed rebellion. Succession is unlikely, giving the mixed population we have.

    A situation like Sri Lanka and the Tamil rebels or maybe Columbia with all of its "factions" might be a more appropriate scenario. I have no idea where it might lead, but the US Military is not that good to be able to cover an insurgency in a region wide local like the modern south. Look how many issues we have had in an arid environment like Iraq. Ad in hills and highly vegetated geography that makes Afghanistan look tiny, and there is no way to easily pacify a region that size.

    Our success as a nation has been the binding of various parts into a relatively unified whole speaking as one. Any such insurgency as listed above would destroy that. What would a small rebellion do to our economy?

    Some past US rebellions: Slave rebellions, Whiskey rebellion, Shay's rebellion, civil war

    It starts with bombing of bio tech company's and abortion clinics and moves to infrastructure strikes on the "Liberal" cities?

    The "force structure" would face a crises of conscience right off the bat. Since the political make up of the force structure is split to start with. This could make it less effective to deal with such an insurgency to start with.

    Constitutionally, you can't use the US military on US soil. So insurgents wouldn't be facing our best troops, they would be facing less than fully motivated guardsmen and local police. That just evened the odds right there.

    Pakistan just made "deals" with the Taliban for peace.

    What if?.....
    I can't deliver UTOPIA, but I can create a HELL for you to LIVE in :)DoD:(

  11. #11
    Cyburbian btrage's avatar
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    Quote Originally posted by imaplanner View post
    Hannity doesn't speak for the GOP- he just spends alot of his time parroting the GOP party line. I like to think that many pubbers think he is a wacko. I also don't think Olberman speaks for the demos. Olberman is also a wacko.
    Seriously. How did Olberman go from ESPN dude to political talking-head.
    "I'm very important. I have many leather-bound books and my apartment smells of rich mahogany"

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    Cyburbian zman's avatar
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    Wait until things get bad for everyone.

    Rolling blackouts.

    Food shortages.

    Imagine those how would be mighty pissed off that they cannot watch their TV or text on their Blackberry anymore.... teaming up with successionist gun nuts... teaming up with intellectual ideologs.... teaming up with the bored and anxious.

    Imagine when the system collapses and the Natl Guard along with the Police are no longer getting paid.


    Think about that.

    But, of course, that cannot happen here...



    Notice, no smilie.
    You get all squeezed up inside/Like the days were carved in stone/You get all wired up inside/And it's bad to be alone

    You can go out, you can take a ride/And when you get out on your own/You get all smoothed out inside/And it's good to be alone
    -Peart

  13. #13
    Cyburbian hilldweller's avatar
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    I could see a hate group carrying out something like OK City but the chances of an organized rebellion of some sort are pretty remote IMO. There is really no definitive issue to unite a rebellion like you'd have in other countries where its possible to topple an entire form of government and establish a new one (or just have anarchy for that matter). Freedom keeps the peace, for the most part. God willing this will continue to be so.

  14. #14
    Cyburbian Duke Of Dystopia's avatar
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    I'm thinking that Columbia style factions most likely. The Clan acted in such ways in the past. Columbian death squads were active in urban areas. That might be one model to use for predicting outcomes. Irish style IRA groups could possibly form if they thought they had a political party to back them?

    One could expect effectiveness on at least the order of insurgents hitting oil infrastructure targets in Nigeria. It happens all the time.

    How many cities are truly tight lipped about vital infrastructure? Plan for hardening of that infrastructure? Willing to pay for it?

    How much damage could 1 person in rebellion due with the armored bulldozer like happened in Granby, Colorado?

    I agree with Zman, good thing it can't happen here.
    I can't deliver UTOPIA, but I can create a HELL for you to LIVE in :)DoD:(

  15. #15
    Cyburbian TexanOkie's avatar
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    Quote Originally posted by Duke Of Dystopia View post
    That was not the question "What form of revolution do you romanticize", the question was "What form of revolution do you prefer". Three options were given, each of which was of a bloody and violent method. I don't think you read the question very well, there was no romanticized notions in the initial heading question.
    You're right. Hence the word "glorified". I'll leave the "romanticization" of revolution to you liberals (again, see Che Guevara worship, etc). This was a logical analysis based on a perceived glorified goal, whatever it might be and to whomever it might be directed. It just sounds general to me. Could it be about the US? Sure. He never actually says anything about the United States (unless you use the term "state" to mean one of ours) and the discussion could easily apply generally across the board.

    Quote Originally posted by Duke Of Dystopia View post
    It kind of showed how demoralized and hopeless the GOP is. Think about it. They loose an election and majority control for the first time in many years, after a good run of 28 years, and they are talking armed struggle. As if the goal of persuading their fellow countrymen was out of their reach. Maybe it is out of reach.
    I don't see anyone in the GOP making these statements. This was some anonymous dude on a web forum. And remember that the DNC's goal of persuading their fellow countrymen was deemed out of their reach as little as 4 years ago, and prior to that had even been echoed by a Democratic president (Clinton had said "the era of big government is over"). Really, it took a whole lot of events unfolding in nice order for the DNC to persuade their fellow countrymen to give them control of Congress and the Presidency: a cult of personality surrounding their presidential candidate, a wonderfully-timed economic collapse, Bush abandoning conservative economics (amongst other things) sending the signal that we had no choice, and a politically uninspiring opposition candidate. We're within easy reach. Especially if Obama can't make good on all of his promises, and Lord knows they are lofty and he's already failed at some attempts.

    Quote Originally posted by Duke Of Dystopia View post
    I expect this kind of off the cuff scenario discussion to take place, especially in the fiction and sci-fi venues. I find them interesting to be honest. Seditious discussions are why governments have tried to control peoples use of free time. Because disgruntled people with free time run amok.
    And yet another reason why government should but out of people's lives. People have a right to revolt if there's just cause, as clearly outlined in our Declaration of Independence. Our entire national history and culture are based on it.

    Quote Originally posted by Duke Of Dystopia View post
    However, coming from someone associated with a network that tried to turn a fist bump into a nation wide scare tactic influencing an election, one has to legitimately question if Hannity is giving ideas or facilitating discussion of sedition.
    Sean Hannity did not make this statement. It was some dude on Sean Hannity's web forum. Does Dan agree with and promote everything that is discussed in these forums?

    Quote Originally posted by Duke Of Dystopia View post
    Personally, I like how he personally decided against option #1 & #2. That left #3, Succession From The Union. All of this was rather interesting. Right now, the GOP is a regional party limited to mostly the south. How did that work for the South the last time?
    Proportionally better than it did the North, despite the fact that the South lost. Right now, the scales tip towards the South. We're the ones who still have modest economic growth. We've evened out in population. We're the ones with guns. We're the ones with the most military training and facilities. And we're the ones with the oil.

    Quote Originally posted by Duke Of Dystopia View post
    Now Hannity is not a brainiac. In fact he revels in the opposite, no pointy head for him. He obviously felt that entertaining such ideas was worth while. The last administration set up rules for how to deal with foreign and possible domestic terrorists. Maybe all the spying systems set up to watch US citizens should be focused on members or suspected members of the GOP. They could use the same rules, nobody in the GOP ever objected before. If any fringe member has a connection to a normal member of the GOP, then both are suspect. Any associate of a suspect should also be put on a watch list. Palin would be on the list because of her husband, a known secessionist. Everybody who has associated with her politically would then be suspect with no right to privacy.
    Again, show again where it was Hannity or anyone in the GOP who made these statements. I'm sure the fringe wackos on both sides are already on some watch list, and probably have been for some time.

    Quote Originally posted by Duke Of Dystopia View post
    Lets hope free speech remains free speech. Lets hope that this administration can get around to exposing the domestic spying ringleaders and shut it down. Lets hope that the "fringe" members of the GOP are a REALLY small number.
    They are. Just like your "Code Pink" morons. As to exposing domestic spying ringleaders and shutting them down... if you seriously think that any president would expose this practice, let alone shut it down, you're suffering from severe naivete. At least Bush tried to make it legal for the international calls.

  16. #16
    Cyburbian Bubba's avatar
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    Quote Originally posted by Duke Of Dystopia View post
    Thank you mister Olberman for showing what the GOP really thinks about freedom.



    Bit over the top, don't you think, Dukie? I could probably cherry pick back through the Democratic Underground boards and come up with posts from the lunatic left along the same lines. There's a fringe one each side of the political spectrum that does not represent the mainstream though of either major party.

    Get back to me when any actual shooting starts...
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    Cyburbian Duke Of Dystopia's avatar
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    Quote Originally posted by TexanOkie View post
    You're right. Hence the word "glorified". I'll leave the "romanticization" of revolution to you liberals (again, see Che Guevara worship, etc). This was a logical analysis based on a perceived glorified goal, whatever it might be and to whomever it might be directed. It just sounds general to me. Could it be about the US? Sure. He never actually says anything about the United States (unless you use the term "state" to mean one of ours) and the discussion could easily apply generally across the board.


    I don't see anyone in the GOP making these statements. This was some anonymous dude on a web forum. And remember that the DNC's goal of persuading their fellow countrymen was deemed out of their reach as little as 4 years ago, and prior to that had even been echoed by a Democratic president (Clinton had said "the era of big government is over"). Really, it took a whole lot of events unfolding in nice order for the DNC to persuade their fellow countrymen to give them control of Congress and the Presidency: a cult of personality surrounding their presidential candidate, a wonderfully-timed economic collapse, Bush abandoning conservative economics (amongst other things) sending the signal that we had no choice, and a politically uninspiring opposition candidate. We're within easy reach. Especially if Obama can't make good on all of his promises, and Lord knows they are lofty and he's already failed at some attempts.


    And yet another reason why government should but out of people's lives. People have a right to revolt if there's just cause, as clearly outlined in our Declaration of Independence. Our entire national history and culture are based on it.


    Sean Hannity did not make this statement. It was some dude on Sean Hannity's web forum. Does Dan agree with and promote everything that is discussed in these forums?


    Proportionally better than it did the North, despite the fact that the South lost. Right now, the scales tip towards the South. We're the ones who still have modest economic growth. We've evened out in population. We're the ones with guns. We're the ones with the most military training and facilities. And we're the ones with the oil.


    Again, show again where it was Hannity or anyone in the GOP who made these statements. I'm sure the fringe wackos on both sides are already on some watch list, and probably have been for some time.


    They are. Just like your "Code Pink" morons. As to exposing domestic spying ringleaders and shutting them down... if you seriously think that any president would expose this practice, let alone shut it down, you're suffering from severe naivete. At least Bush tried to make it legal for the international calls.
    Ooohh! Bit touchy today are we?!

    Beat your chest some more and uncharacteristically lash out, it tells me I was right.

    Just face it, Hannity is in touch with the far right wackos and he wants to encourage them. That's why he posted the hypothetical what if. He doesn't care about the country or the people in it, that don't think his way.

    He is a citizen that wants to harm and end the democracy in which he lives.
    I can't deliver UTOPIA, but I can create a HELL for you to LIVE in :)DoD:(

  18. #18
    Cyburbian otterpop's avatar
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    Quote Originally posted by TexanOkie View post
    Proportionally better than it did the North, despite the fact that the South lost. Right now, the scales tip towards the South. We're the ones who still have modest economic growth. We've evened out in population. We're the ones with guns. We're the ones with the most military training and facilities. And we're the ones with the oil.
    We have B-52s and nuclear missiles in Montana.

    I wouldn't count too much on the population being evened out. I don't think you can count on the black or Hispanic populations joining the white guy revolt.
    "I am very good at reading women, but I get into trouble for using the Braille method."

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  19. #19
    Cyburbian Duke Of Dystopia's avatar
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    Quote Originally posted by Bubba View post


    Bit over the top, don't you think, Dukie? I could probably cherry pick back through the Democratic Underground boards and come up with posts from the lunatic left along the same lines. There's a fringe one each side of the political spectrum that does not represent the mainstream though of either major party.

    Get back to me when any actual shooting starts...
    Maybe, but I like the what if's. Its the Sci-Fi/Disaster scenarios I like. That includes a love of all things conspiracy theory. Its good entertainment.

    The thing is, it wasn't an underground board.

    If all goes well, there will not be any shooting, exploding, killing, or any other form of harm.
    I can't deliver UTOPIA, but I can create a HELL for you to LIVE in :)DoD:(

  20. #20
    Cyburbian TexanOkie's avatar
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    Quote Originally posted by Duke Of Dystopia View post
    Ooohh! Bit touchy today are we?!

    Beat your chest some more and uncharacteristically lash out, it tells me I was right.

    Just face it, Hannity is in touch with the far right wackos and he wants to encourage them. That's why he posted the hypothetical what if. He doesn't care about the country or the people in it, that don't think his way.

    He is a citizen that wants to harm and end the democracy in which he lives.
    Who's lashing out? And, I say again, Hannity didn't post that, nor has it been propagated on any of his media programs. We have some far left wackos on Cyburbia [no offense, gang, I still love ya!], but that doesn't mean that planners want to abolish the state and establish a communist utopia.

    Off-topic:
    Quote Originally posted by otterpop View post
    We have B-52s and nuclear missiles in Montana.

    I wouldn't count too much on the population being evened out. I don't think you can count on the black or Hispanic populations joining the white guy revolt.
    Race got nothing to do with it this time, hombre. (And we've got chemical/biological weapons in addition to our nuclear stockpiles, and faster, stealthier B-1's... not to mention the production facilities for F-16's, F-22's, and F-35's and the two major AWACS bases).

  21. #21
    Cyburbian The One's avatar
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    Hmmm.....

    This thread reminds me of a book I just read....ah....er....had read to me

    Empire by Orson Scott Card.....check it out Pure (Science)Fiction.

    The afterword was amazing! If you get a chance next time at the bookstore, just read the afterword
    Skilled Adoxographer

  22. #22
    Cyburbian illinoisplanner's avatar
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    What a trollish thread. That is clearly just some random poster on a Sean Hannity message board. It is not Michael Steele or anyone else of prominence in the Republican Party who can actually officially speak for the GOP. So, to equate some random guy's post as being the "GOP Plans for Our Future" is very deceiving and a complete lie.

    I've said my peace and will be sitting the rest of this one out.
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  23. #23
    Cyburbian zman's avatar
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    ^^ Yeah, I felt yesterday that if Duke did not have the longevity and rapport on the board already, this thread would have been sht down for a low content post and trolling.
    You get all squeezed up inside/Like the days were carved in stone/You get all wired up inside/And it's bad to be alone

    You can go out, you can take a ride/And when you get out on your own/You get all smoothed out inside/And it's good to be alone
    -Peart

  24. #24
    Cyburbian Bubba's avatar
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    Quote Originally posted by Duke Of Dystopia View post
    Maybe, but I like the what if's. Its the Sci-Fi/Disaster scenarios I like. That includes a love of all things conspiracy theory. Its good entertainment.
    Fair enough.

    Quote Originally posted by Duke Of Dystopia View post
    The thing is, it wasn't an underground board.
    Err...neither is www.democraticunderground.com.
    I found you a new motto from a sign hanging on their wall…"Drink coffee: do stupid things faster and with more energy"

  25. #25
    Cyburbian jmello's avatar
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    The GOP doesn't plan for our future, it only yearns for our past.

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