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Thread: The Pirate Bay vs IFPI

  1. #1
    Cyburbian Duke Of Dystopia's avatar
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    The Pirate Bay vs IFPI

    Have you been following the "Spectrial" in Sweeden?

    Do you feel the IFPI legal team is the best team they could really field? Should the IFPI insist they get their money back from them due to incompetence?

    Half of the IFPI case relating to copyright infringement collapsed in defeat on day 1 of a trial planned for over 2 years. The remaining half of the case could legitimately be leveled at every public library and search engine. Do you feel allowing a link to a site is the equivelent of piracy?

    Do you feel a library, which provides access to copyrighted works for free, infringes on the rights of the copyright holder?

    Is google a pirate system? Is The Pirate Bay a search engine?

    Who is going to win? PLACE YOUR BETS


    I think The Pirate Bay wins this trial.

    The companies behind the RIAA finally have to devise a new business model, technology will destroy a legal price fixing scheme, and the digital revolution continues.
    I can't deliver UTOPIA, but I can create a HELL for you to LIVE in :)DoD:(

  2. #2
    Cyburbian cellophane's avatar
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    the bits and pieces ive read lead me to believe that pirate bay will come out of this sparkling and clean, and the RIAA and its cronies will be worse off than OJ after his trip to vegas.

    the business model embraced by the music industry is founded on a linear supply and demand chain and that is non-existent anymore and they are desperately trying to sustain something that is not sustainable. hollywood is in the same place, it is just taking longer for video to be easily transferred online compared to the small file sizes of a song. this is partly why a CD that is 15 years old still costs $15, just like one that came out last week. you cant reasonably sell a 15 year old car or dishwasher for what it cost the day it was released (some rare exceptions aside) even if it has never been opened.

    there are also some pretty big broad definitions that will be refined after this case as you pointed out about what is and is not a search engine and what is and is not a pirate system.

  3. #3
    Cyburbian Duke Of Dystopia's avatar
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    Quote Originally posted by cellophane View post
    .......there are also some pretty big broad definitions that will be refined after this case as you pointed out about what is and is not a search engine and what is and is not a pirate system.
    This link: http://www.pcworld.com/article/15980...ad_of_us.html/

    Is an interesting piece discussing the business model distribution system. The article is anti-piracy, but it discusses how piracy itself is showing how different the system is globally from 20 years ago. In essence, business has failed to provide an appropriate level of service at an agreeable price, and piracy is the result of market failure.

    In a world where the staggered regional release of content is a barrier to provision of a service, piracy has displayed to business where they need to refocus. P2P file sharing also argues for the removal of other regional barriers such as content that prevents a CD from being played in a different regions of the world. The article contends that the Pirates are just ahead of the vast majority of people and are showing the entertainment industry what they should be doing.

    The entertainment environment is changing while the entertainment producers refuse to change. It is no wonder it is all such a mess.
    I can't deliver UTOPIA, but I can create a HELL for you to LIVE in :)DoD:(

  4. #4
    OH....IO Hink's avatar
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    This makes me happy. Not really because I am an advocate of piracy, but because of pompous a$$es like Lars Ullrich and Metallica, who really thought that their music was more important than others. Their ruining of Napster really helped create the pirate culture.

    I think that with web rights and more and more content going to web after show formats, this will hopefully end the ridiculousness of DRM and music copyrights.

    The GNU movement I think is also doing this for the computer programming world.
    A common mistake people make when trying to design something completely foolproof is to underestimate the ingenuity of complete fools. -Douglas Adams

  5. #5
    Cyburbian cellophane's avatar
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    pretty much.

    as a rule of thumb (should have been the rule of wrist!) i would much rather have a physical copy of an album (woo vinyl!!) than only an mp3. there is something satisfying about thumbing through a stack of records looking for one thing, only to find another that you forgot about. browsing an mp3 directory just doesnt do that for me... i probably own 500-600 records (vinyl) and another 500-1000 CD's. its really easy to forget about a 45 with an awesome B-side if i don't actually see it.


    the digital millennium copyright act was and still is a travesty perpetuated by record and movie companies that havent put out a quality product in decades...

  6. #6
    Cyburbian ofos's avatar
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    Haven't given this a lot of serious thought but it seems to me that the internet and the profusion of electronic media requires a business model that is based more on service delivery than product delivery. Given that, the value of the physical product is most valuable at it's first sale. After that, delivery of the content(i.e. service) has more inherent value than the physical product. Obviously they're aware that's the case, or they wouldn't be trying so hard to stop pirate distribution. They must also know that they're fighting a losing battle. 1.5 billion Chinese duplicators can't be wrong.
    “Death comes when memories of the past exceed the vision for the future.”

  7. #7
    Cyburbian Duke Of Dystopia's avatar
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    Quote Originally posted by cellophane View post
    ........as a rule of thumb (should have been the rule of wrist!) i would much rather have a physical copy of an album (woo vinyl!!) than only an mp3. there is something satisfying about thumbing through a stack of records looking for one thing, only to find another that you forgot about. browsing an mp3 directory just doesnt do that for me... i probably own 500-600 records (vinyl) and another 500-1000 CD's. its really easy to forget about a 45 with an awesome B-side if i don't actually see it. .......
    It could be a generational thing. I should be were you are at, but for $120 I can buy a drive the size of a big 4" x 8" book, and plug and play ALL of my music where and when I want. Personally, I get the same nostalgic feeling when I spy that folder with the music in it.

    My computer tells me that on the present drive I have about 3.5 years of music if I played everything once.

    That is way to many crates to drag around wherever I go!

    One good model for new distribution would be the Tv companies releasing the content for free download after the first run of a show. If an advertiser wanted to pay an extra fee, the commercials would be included as they ran. The "lost" revenue would then be recovered by the sale of advertising. The RIAA then only goes after users who posted content removing the advertising. In effect, why remove the advertising if their existence keeps you out of legal jeopardy?

    Only one example I can think up off the cuff.

    DVD won't be long for the marketplace much longer is my guess. Digital download is so much nicer.
    I can't deliver UTOPIA, but I can create a HELL for you to LIVE in :)DoD:(

  8. #8
    Cyburbian cellophane's avatar
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    Quote Originally posted by Duke Of Dystopia View post
    It could be a generational thing. I should be were you are at, but for $120 I can buy a drive the size of a big 4" x 8" book, and plug and play ALL of my music where and when I want. Personally, I get the same nostalgic feeling when I spy that folder with the music in it.
    im 28, unless you are in the 15-21 bracket i dont think there is that much of a generation gap =p i am totally not opposed to mp3s and have quite a few of those as well and an ipod to travel with and take to work. like you i easily have years of continuous music. hell i have 1800 mp3's on my work pc and for a while was very tediously trying to archive my records as mp3. it is infinitely easier to download them - problem is most are 'techno' records (to use the generative term) and downloads aren't as readily available as if i were looking for a Beatles album. however there is something special about dropping a needle on a record and physically being able to manipulate the media that i really enjoy and once i get my turntables set back up i will continue to buy vinyl over a CD or mp3 format if the option is available. a lot of record companies are now release vinyl new and including a cd or download coupon for the album - which imo is the best of both worlds.

  9. #9
    Cyburbian mgk920's avatar
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    I fully agree that the record labels and the RIAA screwed up ROYALLY back when the original Napster approached them with what all that I know of was a very lucrative licensing offer, one that would have had the labels raking in so much money that they wouldn't have known what to do with it all while fostering a massive amount of goodwill and satisfaction among music fans, and yet the labels' response was a federal lawsuit.

    Antics like that go all the way back to the turn of the 19th to 20th century when the sheet music publishers took the then latest and snazziest new technology (pneumatic player pianos) to the USSupreme Court and the Supremes sided with the piano makers.

    The final coup-de-gras to the Big Bands was a NASTY musicians' union strike sometime, IIRC, during the early 1950s, when the issue was again the then latest and snazziest new technologies, those being the introduction of 'high fidelity' records into the consumer marketplace (records before then were of the cruder 78 RPM version) and coin-operated jukeboxes into bars and restaurants - that strike almost singlehandedly brought country into the American mainstream as a music genre.

    Also, IMHO, the only reason why the RIAA didn't try to sue the audio CD into oblivion during the early to mid 1980s was that at that time, they were thought to be uncopyable.

    The labels' current business model is fatally flawed and their refusal to adapt to the latest and snazziest new technologies will consign them to the dustbin of business history.

    Musicians have always made the most money performing and not recording. Most journeyman musicians make almost nothing from records. There is a reason why the performance rights part of the music biz (ie, ASCAP, BMI, SESAC, live concerts, etc) is having one banner year after another after another - people LIKE hearing music!

    BTW, one can now almost run a well-stocked radio station with just two iPods (cue one up while the other one plays). My favorite local hangout here in Appleton has their entire music library in the form of 128 kbs .mp3 files in the hard drive of one computer (plus some backup HDs, I hope!) in the DJ stand, too.

    Mike

  10. #10
    Cyburbian Duke Of Dystopia's avatar
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    UPDATE

    From the Wall Street Journal Business (http://online.wsj.com/article/BT-CO-...07-708044.html)

    "Google said Monday that it believes Google Web Search and Google News are fully consistent with copyright law because the company simply links users to sites at which news stories appear."

    "Outsell estimates Google is responsible for 20% to 30% of the traffic on the average newspaper web site, but the online newspaper business remains only a thin slice of the industry's revenue base."

    The newspapers need Google, but Google does not need the newspapers.

    Yup, the newspaper industry may now be accusing Google of copyright infringement soon the same way the RIAA and associated organizations are going after TPB.

    The above legal statement is the exact same argument TPB used.
    I can't deliver UTOPIA, but I can create a HELL for you to LIVE in :)DoD:(

  11. #11
    Cyburbian imaplanner's avatar
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    Pirate Bay = Lose

    That's too bad. Really what sites like Pirate Bay are are just a great technological advancement that can be used for all sorts of things. Just because many people use it for illegal file sharing doesn't mean they shuold be shut down IMO. People use their local internet company to do illegal stuff- what's the difference. It's sad that the big corporations that have no creativity of their own- and have gotten wealthy by taking advaqntage of people that are actually creative- its sad that they win and continue to crush people who actually have worthwhile inventions (aka Pirate Bay).

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