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Thread: Columbine 10 year later-Any thoughts?

  1. #1
    Cyburbian Plus Whose Yur Planner's avatar
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    Columbine 10 year later-Any thoughts?

    Today marks the anniversery of one of the more tragic turning points in American history. What are your thoughts 10 years later?
    When did I go from Luke Skywalker to Obi-Wan Kenobi?

  2. #2
    Cyburbian rcgplanner's avatar
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    I was a freshman in high school when Columbine happened. The next year, schools got a lot more secure. My high school required ID badges, doors were locked from the outside, random searchs and yearly bomb threats became the norm. I went to high school in a small town in the Upstate of SC.

    Columbine represented the first time that schools realized that a major event could happen "here". Columbine was also one of the first major events that the major networks covered live. In 1999, cable news was really beginning to spread its influence.

    Still 10 years later, Columbine comes up from time to time. Just last week I was looking at a development plan for a new school at work. The Fire Department had comments regarding access in the event another Columbine occurs.

    Sadly since Virginia Tech and NIU, school shootings have seem to become nothing more than a minor blurb on the nation's radar screen.

  3. #3
    Chairman of the bored Maister's avatar
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    Moderator note:
    Preemptive note: experience has proved that this topic is right up there with abortion when it comes to encouraging uncivil behavior. Remember folks if you're going to participate keep it nice, keep it impersonal. Carry on.
    People will miss that it once meant something to be Southern or Midwestern. It doesn't mean much now, except for the climate. The question, “Where are you from?” doesn't lead to anything odd or interesting. They live somewhere near a Gap store, and what else do you need to know? - Garrison Keillor

  4. #4
    Cyburbian Plus
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    Quote Originally posted by rcgplanner View post
    Sadly since Virginia Tech and NIU,
    school shootings have seem to become nothing more than a minor blurb on the nation's radar screen.
    That is scary.
    Last edited by JNA; 20 Apr 2009 at 10:39 AM.
    Oddball
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    Why don't you dig how beautiful it is out here?
    Why don't you say something righteous and hopeful for a change?
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    Broke parts take a little longer, though.
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  5. #5
    Cyburbian Plus Whose Yur Planner's avatar
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    Quote Originally posted by Maister View post
    Moderator note:
    Preemptive note: experience has proved that this topic is right up there with abortion when it comes to encouraging uncivil behavior. Remember folks if you're going to participate keep it nice, keep it impersonal. Carry on.
    Sorry Meister, that was not my intent, I was not trolling. I was just curious that people's thoughts were 10 years later, especially the younger cyburbs.
    Again, I don't want to cause a fuss.
    When did I go from Luke Skywalker to Obi-Wan Kenobi?

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    Cyburbian zman's avatar
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    I was in my high school the day it happened. Columbine HS was only 10 minutes away from us and it was big news. Basically, all classrooms had CNN on TV in the afternoon and a lot of kids went home early. Rumors then started that other high schools were targeted including mine later in the week, promting a very empty classrooms that week.
    Security got about as tight as if the President himself was going to class with us.
    Many of my peers knew people in Columbine HS and I knew some kids that moved from my school to there, including one that was wounded (I found out about her when she was on TV later).
    In college, I was friends with a couple kids from there, including one that was shot at (but not hit).
    It was wierd and scary for us because we were so close and it could have just as easily happened at our school. It is one thing to have a school shooting 1,000 miles away in a different state, but 10 minutes away in your own town? I still think about it a lot.

    On a bittersweet note, Columbine HS beat us in the football Championship the next season. Good for them and a good way to move on.
    You get all squeezed up inside/Like the days were carved in stone/You get all wired up inside/And it's bad to be alone

    You can go out, you can take a ride/And when you get out on your own/You get all smoothed out inside/And it's good to be alone
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  7. #7
    Chairman of the bored Maister's avatar
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    Quote Originally posted by Whose Yur Planner View post
    Sorry Meister, that was not my intent, I was not trolling. I was just curious that people's thoughts were 10 years later, especially the younger cyburbs.
    Again, I don't want to cause a fuss.
    I realize that's your intent. It's just that 9 out of 10 times the topic ends up getting hijacked into a nasty Second Amendment debate.
    Last edited by Maister; 20 Apr 2009 at 11:30 AM.
    People will miss that it once meant something to be Southern or Midwestern. It doesn't mean much now, except for the climate. The question, “Where are you from?” doesn't lead to anything odd or interesting. They live somewhere near a Gap store, and what else do you need to know? - Garrison Keillor

  8. #8
    moderator in moderation Suburb Repairman's avatar
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    A close friend of mine ended up attending Columbine when his family relocated in 1998. His girlfriend was killed during the event. I spoke with him a few days after it happened--it was awful just listening to him talk about how he was feeling and his description of what the families and other students were going through.

    He chose a career in law enforcement and now works for the ATF as an analyst.

    Add school violence to the list of things our culture has become more desynsetized to. Virginia Tech was huge news... NIU was barely a blip on the news radar screen. Very sad.

    "Oh, that is all well and good, but, voice or no voice, the people can always be brought to the bidding of the leaders. That is easy. All you have to do is tell them they are being attacked and denounce the pacifists for lack of patriotism and exposing the country to danger. It works the same way in any country."

    - Herman Göring at the Nuremburg trials (thoughts on democracy)

  9. #9
    Cyburbian The One's avatar
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    Ok

    Quote Originally posted by Maister View post
    I realize that's your intent. It's just that 9 out of 10 times the topic ends up getting hijacked into a nasty Second Amendment debate.
    That was a really bad day in our history. A school shooting that would have most certainly directly impacted Mrs. The One and my daughter, who would have been a student at the school, took place in Bailey Colorado, but we had moved a few months before to Florida.....thankfully!

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Platte_...chool_shooting


    I'm glad Maister was able to suggest that we discuss a ban on assault rifles in this thread.....how about a poll?

    the one ducks and runs for cover.....
    Skilled Adoxographer

  10. #10
    Cyburbian Random Traffic Guy's avatar
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    Quote Originally posted by rcgplanner View post
    Sadly since Virginia Tech and NIU, school shootings have seem to become nothing more than a minor blurb on the nation's radar screen.
    As it should be with statistically quite rare events compared to bigger risks to students like driving, drug abuse, or suicide. But "man bites dog" gets all the press.

  11. #11
    Cyburbian illinoisplanner's avatar
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    I remember me and my brother were playing James Bond 007 on Nintendo 64 after school...you know, one of those violent video games. I was in middle school, he was in high school. All the sudden my dad arrives home from work and is like, "Turn that crap off! Don't you realize what's happening?! Turn on the news." I remember watching it on TV the rest of that afternoon and it was pretty shocking and really sad. I just couldn't believe it.

    I think I remember they had a moment of silence at my school. And then I remember the national moral panic. All the sudden, Marilyn Manson was responsible for the shooting. Violent video games were responsible. The attack on guns and all the zero-tolerance policies instituted regarding weapons and the ridiculous stories of kids being expelled for having pocket knives. All the moronic kids planning copycat bombings and shootings...I remember a kid who lived on my street was one of them and the whole family moved away as a result. The concern about bullying...I remember my school started this student-run anti-bullying internvention group which I joined as a peer mentor. The school security...the ID cards we had to wear, the locking of doors.

    I remember in middle school being concerned about something like Columbine happening at my school. By high school, that fear had waned and by college, it had completely disappeared. Even when Virginia Tech happened, I never thought a shooting would actually happen at my school (NIU). But it did. And now I share an unfortunate bond with the students of Columbine and Virginia Tech.
    "Life's a journey, not a destination"
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  12. #12
    Cyburbian DetroitPlanner's avatar
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    Sadly such events are now commonplace a few blocks from my home there was a murder and suicide in a college classroom that did not even rate much national press coverage.

    Columbine is not the worst mass killing in a school building. Bath Michigan was home to the worst, with 45 killed and 58 injured. Columbine was indeed the worst in recent memory, though that is little solice to the those living the VT or NIU.
    We hope for better things; it will arise from the ashes - Fr Gabriel Richard 1805

  13. #13
    Cyburbian Raf's avatar
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    I remember watching it all unfold in high school as a senior with out TVs dialed on the local news and CNN. We discussed the events during our government class and our teacher tied it all to gun rights, etc which led to a lively debate between the Regan 3 (myself and the two other guys in the class, whom at the time all had conservative beliefs) versus the rest of the class and our liberal hippie teacher. Anyways, the next morning a bunch of local news outlets visited our school and interviewed a bunch of us asking questions regarding the tragedy since our high school had the same "profile" as Columbine for the Sacramento Region.

    USA today had a good weekend piece regarding the true state of mind of the two shooters. Really just demented outlyers rather than the "video game violent, marlyin manson" influenced teenagers that the media made them out to be. This wasn't the first school shooting, but certainly but these types of massacre on the map and now when such events happen, it is always referred to a "columbine" style event. Just sad.
    Men do dumb $hit... it is what they do to correct the problem that counts.

  14. #14
    Cyburbian Plus
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    Quote Originally posted by DetroitPlanner View post
    Columbine is not the worst mass killing in a school building. Bath Michigan was home to the worst, with 45 killed and 58 injured.
    Interesting points -
    Unlike the Columbine High School massacre later that century, there was no legislative response, either by the state or federal governments, aimed at preventing a recurrence, although pyrotol was quietly taken off the market.

    The disaster made the front pages of national newspapers and remained there until news of Michigan native Charles Lindbergh's completion of first solo transatlantic flight ...
    Oddball
    Why don't you knock it off with them negative waves?
    Why don't you dig how beautiful it is out here?
    Why don't you say something righteous and hopeful for a change?
    From Kelly's Heroes (1970)


    Are you sure you're not hurt ?
    No. Just some parts wake up faster than others.
    Broke parts take a little longer, though.
    From Electric Horseman (1979)

  15. #15
    Cyburbian Veloise's avatar
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    I did not know this...

    http://www.freep.com/article/20090420/NEWS07/90420012

    Columbine has transformed the way police in the U.S. deal with shooting rampages.

    After the tragedy, police across the country developed "active-shooter" training. It calls for responding officers to rush toward gunfire and step over bodies and bleeding victims, if necessary, to stop the gunman — the active shooter — first. ...

    Police around the country now employ so-called contact teams, in which patrol officers from any jurisdiction band together to enter a building in formation to confront the gunman and shoot it out with him if necessary.

    "Once we can turn his focus and change his thought plan, whatever his plan was to go in there, he can no longer just kill indiscriminately... he can't actively continue to kill. He has to deal with law enforcement." ...

    In another change prompted by Columbine, elite teams across the U.S. have armed medics and rescue teams trained to drag the wounded out under fire.

  16. #16
    Cyburbian beach_bum's avatar
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    I was a jr in HS at the time of Columbine. The biggest lesson for us, the generation most affected by the tragedy, is that social isolation of your peers is not only mean, but it can be dangerous. High school has always been about image, clicks, at least socially, but that day we all thought a little differently about that quiet girl in the back of the classroom or the weird guy that sat at lunch by himself. I really think that after Columbine we all treated each other with a little more understanding and respect, thought a little more about the bigger picture and not so much about petty high school issues. I wish that this lesson was learned by all back then, because there have been other mass shootings since that time, not only on school campuses, but in malls, group living facilities and government offices. It's a sad day, especially since Columbine seemed to start a terrible trend in America.
    "Never invest in any idea you can't illustrate with a crayon." ~Peter Lynch

  17. #17
    Quote Originally posted by Whose Yur Planner View post
    Sorry Meister, that was not my intent, I was not trolling. I was just curious that people's thoughts were 10 years later, especially the younger cyburbs.
    Again, I don't want to cause a fuss.
    Quote Originally posted by Maister View post
    I realize that's your intent. It's just that 9 out of 10 times the topic ends up getting hijacked into a nasty Second Amendment debate.
    Quote Originally posted by Random Traffic Guy View post
    As it should be with statistically quite rare events compared to bigger risks to students like driving, drug abuse, or suicide. But "man bites dog" gets all the press.
    If we really look at the bigger picture here, most school shootings fall into two categories; crimes of passion and crimes of depravity. There seems to be an obvious correlation that the larger the shooting and the more at random at which victims are chosen, the less likely the shooting was done for reasons of passion (sloth, avarice, lust, pride).

    Nearly all of the more depraved executions have something in common-- they all take place in fairly isolated areas with fairly low densities; basically, within suburbia.

    Am I suggesting that suburbia actually creates mass murderers? No, but I'll walk that line. I keep seeing a phrase that's used over and over again to describe most of the shooters and that phrase is "a lonely and frustrated person who felt rejected by society." There's is an obvious correlation here but it would be hard to find the real root of the cause.

    There seems to be a lot of things going on here I have neither the time or connections or money to study. However, the isolation and problems caused by a lack of social development has been something that's been fairly studied within the planning community. A lack of density in some ways has been linked to increases of sex crimes-- oddly enough, sexual deviance is a background characteristic to serial killers but not yet to mass murderers.

    I have seen other reports that the incidence of mass murders has been on the rise-- media whether it's video games, comic books, brother's grim or even Shakespeare hasn't necessarily gotten any more violent or more depraved. People are perhaps finding a correlation between video game violence, media consumption and violent crimes but fail to point out that suburbanites typically consume the most media and perhaps addicted to the internet more than their urban and rural counterparts.

    Perhaps we should seriously consider access to town centers and urban cores as a must for children over the age of 12.

  18. #18
    Cyburbian The One's avatar
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    Yeah right....

    Quote Originally posted by Veloise View post
    http://www.freep.com/article/20090420/NEWS07/90420012

    Columbine has transformed the way police in the U.S. deal with shooting rampages.

    After the tragedy, police across the country developed "active-shooter" training. It calls for responding officers to rush toward gunfire and step over bodies and bleeding victims, if necessary, to stop the gunman — the active shooter — first. ...

    Police around the country now employ so-called contact teams, in which patrol officers from any jurisdiction band together to enter a building in formation to confront the gunman and shoot it out with him if necessary.

    "Once we can turn his focus and change his thought plan, whatever his plan was to go in there, he can no longer just kill indiscriminately... he can't actively continue to kill. He has to deal with law enforcement." ...

    In another change prompted by Columbine, elite teams across the U.S. have armed medics and rescue teams trained to drag the wounded out under fire.
    This sounds good on paper, but I'll believe it the next time the police make it too a scene before the shooting ends and they actually implement this tactic
    Skilled Adoxographer

  19. #19
    Also, the largest school mass murder is technically the Belsan Massacre-- 385 dead, 783 injured. But who gives a shit about what happens in North Ossetia?


    Ironically, my browser's spell checker doesn't recognize Ossetia.

  20. #20
    Cyburbian fringe's avatar
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    Whatever you do don't join the bowling team.

  21. #21
    Cyburbian Random Traffic Guy's avatar
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    Quote Originally posted by The One View post
    This sounds good on paper, but I'll believe it the next time the police make it too a scene before the shooting ends and they actually implement this tactic
    The active shooter response has spread really fast among departments who take their training seriously. The long delay for police to enter during the Binghamton attack was panned pretty severely by some brave commentators in the industry.

    Results of this are truly a YMMV scenario. Generally I think it is the right path that will cut down on casualties, especially when coupled by a much more agressive defense by the prospective victims. As always, even if the police rush in there is the old self-reliant saw "When seconds count the police are only minutes away". People need to fight back and not go gently.

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