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Thread: San Luis Obispo, CA

  1. #26
    Cyburbian DetroitPlanner's avatar
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    Quote Originally posted by RichmondJake View post
    I guess things have changed since I left California. I thought the only way a project could receive an legislative exemption from CEQA was through the approval of the legislature and the governor's signature.
    Not only that, I was not aware that California law regarding transportation and air quality allowed a run-around exemption from Federal Regulations!

    Urban19, I would suggest that you thourghoughly review the laws and regulations you choose to fight and defend. CA can have more stringent AQ and transportation laws, but it cannot have more lax ones. What I provided was based upon federal law, only the time-line is appropriate for MI. CA must have more stringent laws because so much of the state is non-attainment. Michigan is mostly in maintenance except for a few small spots where PM 0.25 is an issue.
    We hope for better things; it will arise from the ashes - Fr Gabriel Richard 1805

  2. #27
    Cyburbian Raf's avatar
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    Quote Originally posted by RichmondJake View post
    I guess things have changed since I left California. I thought the only way a project could receive an legislative exemption from CEQA was through the approval of the legislature and the governor's signature.
    Yea... the ballot box does that but to recieve matching funds Ernie needs to do steps 3-5 as DP as said simply because its the law and heaven forbid the project be sued by the AG.

    DP is probably correct in estimating a 8 year time frame. Realistically 10 to 15 years is probably the better bet, but what the hell do i know, I am just a lowly award winning design planner
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    Quote Originally posted by CPSURaf View post
    Yea... the ballot box does that but to recieve matching funds Ernie needs to do steps 3-5 as DP as said simply because its the law and heaven forbid the project be sued by the AG.

    DP is probably correct in estimating a 8 year time frame. Realistically 10 to 15 years is probably the better bet, but what the hell do i know, I am just a lowly award winning design planner
    More like 5 years. All he needs is the cash from the feds. When I asked Dalidio in 2006 how long his project would take be built he said 3 yrs. How do you know he hasn't already done steps 3-5 btw?

    Too bad Macy's wasn't able to take over Forever 21's spot. I wish that Forever 21 would go out and finally Macy's would come in. Or even if Sears went out. I would rather see a Macy's in town rather than a Whole Foods. There is definately people who would support it too.
    Last edited by urban19; 28 Jan 2011 at 2:15 PM.

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    Is it more likely Macy's could go in another shopping center before we get Dalidio's shopping center? I heard there is one more planned shopping center off of Los Osos Valley Road. First one was Irish Hills Plaza (Costco and Home Depot) and second was Prefumo Creek Commons (Target). I know the demand from consumers determines which retailers come next. A while ago the city gave a survey on who they would want to see come to the city. Target, Macy's, and Olive Garden I think made the top three. I definately think we will get a Macy's over a JCPenney's. BTW, why is Prefumo Creek Commons moving fast while Dalidio is gong slowly? Are projects through the city faster moving? It seems like it took one year of planning for Prefumo and one year for construction.

  5. #30
    Cyburbian cng's avatar
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    Only have two things to say:

    Palmdale paid Macy's 5 millions dollars to locate in the old Gottschalks location... despite the fact that they laid off numerous employees this year. I'd agree with the earlier comment that Macy's is operating an outdated mall retail concept.

    Glad urban19 is thinking of going to CalPoly SLO.

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    Quote Originally posted by cng View post
    Only have two things to say:

    Palmdale paid Macy's 5 millions dollars to locate in the old Gottschalks location... despite the fact that they laid off numerous employees this year. I'd agree with the earlier comment that Macy's is operating an outdated mall retail concept.

    Glad urban19 is thinking of going to CalPoly SLO.
    Oh, I am not thinking about it I will do it.

    Yeah, it seems like when Macy's took over some of these Gottschalks locations that all of the cities paid to lure Macy's.

    SLO is sort of broke and I think they didn't care.

    I know Macy's does use an old model, but that's why I want a Macy's. Because we don't have a mall, so at least we a mall department store.

    I still find interesting that Macy's is considering SLO and to move into a big box center site.

  7. #32
    Cyburbian Raf's avatar
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    Quote Originally posted by urban19 View post
    All he needs is the cash from the feds. When I asked Dalidio in 2006 how long his project would take be built he said 3 yrs. How do you know he hasn't already done steps 3-5 btw?
    Simple, the improvements necessary to get the project off the ground were not included in SLOCOG's approved 2011-2014 FTIP. http://library.slocog.org/PDFs/Progr...011%20FTIP.pdf

    If you want to roll with the big boys, put on your big boy pants and educate yourself a little on how development works.

    When you spoke with Erine in 2006, he said 3 years. That was 2 years ago. In 2006, money was easy, profit was huge, and lending, well my daughter's stuffed monkey could get a loan. The sky's the limit. Flash forward to today. Getting loans for commercial projects are nearly impossible. The commerical office market is struggling keeping up with existing vacancies, and without an RDA in SLO County (the lead agency) there is no chance of a public/private partnership. Unless Ernie is sittin on 30-50 million, not much is going to happen.
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  8. #33
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    Quote Originally posted by CPSURaf View post
    Simple, the improvements necessary to get the project off the ground were not included in SLOCOG's approved 2011-2014 FTIP. http://library.slocog.org/PDFs/Progr...011%20FTIP.pdf

    If you want to roll with the big boys, put on your big boy pants and educate yourself a little on how development works.

    When you spoke with Erine in 2006, he said 3 years. That was 2 years ago. In 2006, money was easy, profit was huge, and lending, well my daughter's stuffed monkey could get a loan. The sky's the limit. Flash forward to today. Getting loans for commercial projects are nearly impossible. The commerical office market is struggling keeping up with existing vacancies, and without an RDA in SLO County (the lead agency) there is no chance of a public/private partnership. Unless Ernie is sittin on 30-50 million, not much is going to happen.
    So at the earliest he could start construction in 2015 when he gets the money and then giving him 3 years for construction.

    Well, I guess Macy's will locate some where else by then. Which would leave Dalidio's project dried with no tenets. I think Dalidio's best bet is to sell his project to the developers of the SLO Promenade like he planned.

    I heard that the developers of the Target project will have to pay to make road improvements on Los Osos Valley Road and another road will be built connecting the other shopping centers.

    After those road improvements, there is one parcel of land left that could hold one more department store and several smaller shops near Costco. It's on the right side of Home Depot near the freeway. Even in this tough economy if we can get Target, then I am sure we can get a Macy's in the same. In the same way, I mean a small big box center with like 5 small shops and a department store. I am guessing it will be 2 and half years away from another shopping with a Macy's. I can't remember exactly, but I think I remember reading that Macy's was working on future project(s) trying to locate to SLO. In order for SLO to get Macy's, I imagine a developer would have to pay Macy's to come here like Palmdale, Visalia, and Tracy did to get them to come to their malls.

    I heard the land next to Dalidio is currently zoned for a car dealership, but I remember talking to the owner Roger Hogan wanting to try and get it re-zoned for retail. I see that as a possibility. It would also be a tricky spot to develop as I remember the mayor telling me the land is split in two from a drainage area. It's still doable.

    Anyways, I tend to be a big-box center shopper and I don't like downtown because I think paying for parking is lame. I think the downtown area is fueled by college students, tourists, and some wealthy locals shopping there so there is no real threat of the downtown going out of business.
    Last edited by urban19; 29 Jan 2011 at 9:46 PM.

  9. #34
    Cyburbian DetroitPlanner's avatar
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    Quote Originally posted by urban19 View post
    I know Macy's does use an old model, but that's why I want a Macy's. Because we don't have a mall, so at least we a mall department store.

    I still find interesting that Macy's is considering SLO and to move into a big box center site.
    Amazing.. If I understand this, you want someone to build a store thats going to go tits-up-in-the-pine-box in a few years?

    It seems to me you have plenty of places to shop already. So what if you don't have an old line Department Store? Most places outside of big metropolises don't. The only thing you can't get at Walmart that Macy's has might be stuff like ties or dress shoes. I don't know much about SLO but if it is anythig like the parts of CA I've seen, you don't see folks wearing that stuff anyways.
    We hope for better things; it will arise from the ashes - Fr Gabriel Richard 1805

  10. #35
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    Quote Originally posted by DetroitPlanner View post
    Amazing.. If I understand this, you want someone to build a store thats going to go tits-up-in-the-pine-box in a few years?

    It seems to me you have plenty of places to shop already. So what if you don't have an old line Department Store? Most places outside of big metropolises don't. The only thing you can't get at Walmart that Macy's has might be stuff like ties or dress shoes. I don't know much about SLO but if it is anythig like the parts of CA I've seen, you don't see folks wearing that stuff anyways.
    Exactly, I want us to have an old line department store. I think it will go up in tits. And I also believe there are plenty of people who shop at Macy's and walk around suit and tie.

    Sure, Macy's and other mid-range and upper end department stores are known for suits and ties and people in that age range. But they also sell stuff for everyone and they have good sales.

  11. #36
    Cyburbian Raf's avatar
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    Quote Originally posted by urban19 View post
    I tend to be a big-box center shopper and I don't like downtown because I think paying for parking is lame. I think the downtown area is fueled by college students, tourists, and some wealthy locals shopping.
    Umm. Do you have an analysis of this? Any reports to back you up there? You may think paying to park is lame, but have you every wondered that you pay to park everywhere. Parking lots aren't free. When retailers/offices build these lots, they do so and pass it on to the leaser, or conversely the business owner passes it on to you through their prices.

    Wealthy locals? I hardly considered myself wealthy, I get by. My friends are also not "wealthy", yet we all spend a significant time there. Why? Because it is a gathering place. It's simple Urban Design Principles.

    1) Create an inviting pedestrian atmosphere
    2) Design buildings at zero setbacks with varying heights
    3) A variety of architecture
    4) Gathering locations for events that draw people.

    From a planning perspective, Communities Kill for place generator like this, whether it is downtown, a mall, whatever. As a "place maker" it is a model to follow and replicate the good things.

    The Downtown has a disproportionate number of College student because its a college town. Tourists? Of course because of all the publicity this town gets, not to mention its major draw Mission San Luis Obispo de Teolsa. Wealthy locals? Yea, we have them, but these groups alone don't drive it.

    It is a place people flock to. The rents for these building reflect that. Just because i go to downtown doesn't mean i am going to spend money and shop till i drop. Maybe, like many i know, just enjoy to walk around or meet up with others for something as simple as a coffee. And like many of our "wealthy" friends, when we do support the retail there our purchase aren't of the "full price" variety but the super sales.

    Quote Originally posted by urban19 View post
    Exactly, I want us to have an old line department store. I think it will go up in tits. And I also believe there are plenty of people who shop at Macy's and walk around suit and tie..
    It's not about what you want. It is about what the market supports. There is a reason why a target is getting built quicker (not to mention the whole not getting sued thing and try to exploit a flaw in CEQA and the ballot box initiative). It has a clear, market that is needed in the area, not to mention over the last 5 years has had a healthy retail profit and economies of scale model that make it work. thanks to places like Kohls, Target, and the this thing called the internet, the days of the mid-level department store are numbered. As a developer, why the heck would I want to build that if it is going to sit as an empty shell if all signs are pointing to yes?
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  12. #37
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    Quote Originally posted by CPSURaf View post
    Umm. Do you have an analysis of this? Any reports to back you up there? You may think paying to park is lame, but have you every wondered that you pay to park everywhere. Parking lots aren't free. When retailers/offices build these lots, they do so and pass it on to the leaser, or conversely the business owner passes it on to you through their prices.

    Wealthy locals? I hardly considered myself wealthy, I get by. My friends are also not "wealthy", yet we all spend a significant time there. Why? Because it is a gathering place. It's simple Urban Design Principles.

    1) Create an inviting pedestrian atmosphere
    2) Design buildings at zero setbacks with varying heights
    3) A variety of architecture
    4) Gathering locations for events that draw people.

    From a planning perspective, Communities Kill for place generator like this, whether it is downtown, a mall, whatever. As a "place maker" it is a model to follow and replicate the good things.

    The Downtown has a disproportionate number of College student because its a college town. Tourists? Of course because of all the publicity this town gets, not to mention its major draw Mission San Luis Obispo de Teolsa. Wealthy locals? Yea, we have them, but these groups alone don't drive it.

    It is a place people flock to. The rents for these building reflect that. Just because i go to downtown doesn't mean i am going to spend money and shop till i drop. Maybe, like many i know, just enjoy to walk around or meet up with others for something as simple as a coffee. And like many of our "wealthy" friends, when we do support the retail there our purchase aren't of the "full price" variety but the super sales.



    It's not about what you want. It is about what the market supports. There is a reason why a target is getting built quicker (not to mention the whole not getting sued thing and try to exploit a flaw in CEQA and the ballot box initiative). It has a clear, market that is needed in the area, not to mention over the last 5 years has had a healthy retail profit and economies of scale model that make it work. thanks to places like Kohls, Target, and the this thing called the internet, the days of the mid-level department store are numbered. As a developer, why the heck would I want to build that if it is going to sit as an empty shell if all signs are pointing to yes?
    I still think this market can support Macy's. It's not doing good as cheap places like Target, but it has it's place. They have good sales.

    There is still space for one to be built and it's probably the only retailer left that we don't have any similar. JCPenney's too much like Sears and Target, and Lowe's is like Home Depot. Not to mention Macy's doesn't usually gets a small department store like around 110,000 sq. ft.

    And if even if the parking isn't actually free I can still go in those shopping centers to get cheaper stuff and not even buy and be charged for parking.

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    Well, I can not say right now if we are going to get a Macy's or not. Since I don't know if any other developers are considering another big box center with a department store.

    Let me ask a question to all on who view this board. Do you think a Macy's is right for SLO? Meaning do you think a big box center with Macy's would be a successful and desired business in the town?

    My other question is this. Which retailers (clothing, etc...) do you see locating in downtown SLO in the Chinatown project and other parts? J. Crew, Williams Sonoma, Sur La Table? Whole Foods in Garden Street Terraces?

    I have nothing else to say after those questions are answered.

  14. #39
    Cyburbian DetroitPlanner's avatar
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    Quote Originally posted by urban19 View post
    Let me ask a question to all on who view this board. Do you think a Macy's is right for SLO? Meaning do you think a big box center with Macy's would be a successful and desired business in the town?

    My other question is this. Which retailers (clothing, etc...) do you see locating in downtown SLO in the Chinatown project and other parts? J. Crew, Williams Sonoma, Sur La Table? Whole Foods in Garden Street Terraces?
    I would not build a Macy's ANYWHERE! If New York City (Macy's home market) suddenly gained 1 million people, I would not even open another Macy's there. Those other stores have to have the right type of customer base (suckers) in order for them to be successful.
    We hope for better things; it will arise from the ashes - Fr Gabriel Richard 1805

  15. #40
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    Quote Originally posted by urban19 View post
    Let me ask a question to all on who view this board. Do you think a Macy's is right for SLO? Meaning do you think a big box center with Macy's would be a successful and desired business in the town?
    I dunno? Is it? How about you do some research of demographics, sites available, trade areas, fiscal gap analysis, and run a pro-forma of development costs to figure that out and get back to us? Oh and don't forget the public opinion survey, just to verify your results.
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  16. #41
    Cyburbian DetroitPlanner's avatar
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    The Oprah Show sends a hottie to the most happiest place in the world. SLO! Funny I thought that was Disneyland!

    http://www.oprah.com/oprahshow/Roche...opic/oprahshow
    We hope for better things; it will arise from the ashes - Fr Gabriel Richard 1805

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    I heard today that Forever 21 isn't doing that well and that they put in a super high bid to get the site. It might just be that Forever 21 goes out and we get Macy's once more. I heard realistically that the department stores don't have enough cash for new buildings, but they have enough to go into old buildings. I gurantee that if we got Macy's and the Santa Maria Macy's closed, then our Macy's would last forever.

  18. #43
    Cyburbian Raf's avatar
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    Quote Originally posted by urban19 View post
    I gurantee that if we got Macy's and the Santa Maria Macy's closed, then our Macy's would last forever.
    Nothing last forever... just ask the British Empire, the Connecticut Lady Huskies, GM, Montgomery Wards, Woolworth, i can keep going...
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  19. #44
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    This thread is priceless.
    Two wrongs don't necessarily make a right, but three lefts do.

  20. #45
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    Quote Originally posted by CJC View post
    This thread is priceless.
    Seriously - the unintentional comedy is off the charts.
    I found you a new motto from a sign hanging on their wall…"Drink coffee: do stupid things faster and with more energy"

  21. #46
    Cyburbian DetroitPlanner's avatar
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    Quote Originally posted by urban19 View post
    I heard today that Forever 21 isn't doing that well and that they put in a super high bid to get the site. It might just be that Forever 21 goes out and we get Macy's once more. I heard realistically that the department stores don't have enough cash for new buildings, but they have enough to go into old buildings. I gurantee that if we got Macy's and the Santa Maria Macy's closed, then our Macy's would last forever.
    I am wondering how you would fit a Macy's into the Forever21 spot. Don't know about California, but the Forever21s here only sell teen girls clothes, pretty cheap and skanky clothes at that.

    What does any of this have to do with present day SLO anyways?
    We hope for better things; it will arise from the ashes - Fr Gabriel Richard 1805

  22. #47
    Cyburbian Raf's avatar
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    Quote Originally posted by DetroitPlanner View post

    What does any of this have to do with present day SLO anyways?
    SLO is all about cheap and skanky
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    That Forever 21 I think is too big for SLO's pants.

    Sure, we have alot of college students but 120,000 sq. ft. of skinny wear to be supported by our small area. Most of the Forever 21 large stores are in the big cities like Pasadena, Fresno, LA, Bakersfield, etc...

    Not only that, but they bid alot of money into that spot and I am not sure if the business there is going to pay off the price they paid for that store.

    Macy's has something for everyone, so you're not dependent on one demographic. Also, Macy's WANTS to close their Santa Maria store. That store is hurting with lower income shoppers. Santa Maria isn't the place for high-end places except the Red Lobster and Olive Garden.

  24. #49
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    Quote Originally posted by urban19 View post
    Santa Maria isn't the place for high-end places except the Red Lobster and Olive Garden.
    Those are high-end restaurants?

    I may be headed to SLO this fall to work on my MCRP, so if any SLOites like raf or choc chip can recommend a good place to grab a beer or three, it would much appreciated.
    Last edited by NickSticks; 02 Feb 2011 at 1:19 PM.

  25. #50
    Cyburbian DetroitPlanner's avatar
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    Quote Originally posted by NickSticks View post
    Those are high-end restaurants?

    I may be headed to SLO this fall to work on my MCRP, so if any SLOites like raf or choc chip can recommend a good place to grab a beer or three, it would much appreciated.
    check out the oprah link. there are nicer places that mcchains.
    We hope for better things; it will arise from the ashes - Fr Gabriel Richard 1805

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