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Thread: San Luis Obispo, Ca

  1. #26
    Cyburbian Raf's avatar
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    what the hell are you trying to prove? Your assumptions are A$$ backwards. WTF does this have to do with planning?
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  2. #27
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    Quote Originally posted by urban19 View post
    So let me get back to the main question. What do you think a mall represents?

    This is what I'm thinking:

    Regional mall or lifestyle center and Costco in region=urban core in largest city of region
    Regional mall or lifestyle center=entertainment for teens in the city
    Macy's=rich population in city which means poor population in city also
    Super Wal-Mart, Super Target, and Super K-Mart=rural areas with lower middle class families
    All of these can be found in any large urban area, the San Diego region, for example, has all of them. Any large urban area will have a diverse amount of malls, shopping centers, and big box retailers (Target, Costco, etc.). As for what a mall represents, it represents that an area (urban, suburban, rural) has a large enough consumer base to support a diverse collection of stores in the same geographical area.

    Also, I would not call an area rich just because it has a Macy's. Higher end department stores such as Nordstrom, Saks, Bloomingdales, and Neiman Marcus are much better indicators of affluent regions.

  3. #28
    Cyburbian eightiesfan's avatar
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    This thread makes my head hurt. Any chance it can be deleted?

    And your all knowing Urban 101 teacher should be fired.
    Regrets, I've had a few; But then again, too many to mention.

  4. #29
    Cyburbian Raf's avatar
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    Quote Originally posted by urban19 View post
    Yuba City or Hanford, so why place a Costco in area with low-population area with no job core to support the Costco.
    Your an idot. Hanford has a beautiful and vibrant downtown, and I have specifically worked on the Yuba City Downtown Specific Plan and the Highway 20 Corridor Plan. To say it doesn't have an "urban core" is strait lunacy. It does, it just isn't as "urban" as others. Hell, even my podunk town has a "urban core". It may not be a T6 on the transect model (go ahead, look it up, might give you some insight to what "urban form is about). But it does hit at least a T4, and that is considered an "urban" area.

    What other idiotic thinking you got going? The next thing you know, a goodwill store will equate to to folks who are pedophiles, crack whores and losers. Please stop with the generalizations. You need to separate retail and planning. Sorry you do. People go to locations because they are "places" and those of us who deal with the urban form can be considered "placemakers". Stop being a categorize and do yourself a favor a change courses to be a placemaker. Your a terrible categorize.
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  5. #30
    NIMBY asshatterer Plus Richmond Jake's avatar
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  6. #31
    Quote Originally posted by CPSURaf View post
    Your an idot. ~snip~

    What other idiotic thinking you got going? ~snip~
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    C'mon Raffie. You know youth is wasted on the young and U19 is nothing if not young, But, you're better than this. Ad hominen attacks are not permitted.



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  7. #32
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    Just because Hanford and Yuba City have downtowns doesn't mean they have urban cores. What is their job base? There is no airport, university, state facility, or big retail sector in those areas. Not even a big tourist sector.

    I will agree malls are in the same geographical area when they have enough population to support a big selection of clothing stores.

    I still think Macy's and other upscale department stores represents an affluent community. Think about Monterey and the Del Monte Center or the Santa Monica Promenade. They just have Macy's and are still affluent communities. Even Santa Maria can be said to be some what affluent. Where there is rich, there is more poor. In Santa Maria's case, there is alot of poverty.
    Last edited by urban19; 31 Aug 2009 at 8:54 PM.

  8. #33
    Cyburbian CJC's avatar
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    Quote Originally posted by RichmondJake View post
    Off-topic:
    RJ here, poking his nose under the tent flap to watch the vehicle wreck unfold.
    Off-topic:
    I'm attempting to simply drive by this time...
    Two wrongs don't necessarily make a right, but three lefts do.

  9. #34
    Cyburbian Raf's avatar
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    Quote Originally posted by urban19 View post
    Just because Hanford and Yuba City have downtowns doesn't mean they have urban cores. What is their job base? There is no airport, university, state facility, or big retail sector in those areas. Not even a big tourist sector.
    Job Base:
    Yuba City: Beale AFB, Sunkist Company, Sutter County/Yuba City
    Hanford:Kings County/Del Monte Foods, A Casino

    Airpot:
    Yuba City: Yuba City Municipal Aiport
    Hanford: Hanford Municipal Aipor

    University:
    Yuba City: Chico State (45 mins)
    Hnaford: Fresno State (45 mins)

    Retail Sector:
    Yuba City- Largest retail sector in the sutter/yuba area (including a dare i say it, a mall (well 2 if you count the peach tree one))
    Hanford: You got me there (Although, it is "low income and rural" since it has super wal-mart).

    And with that i will hitch a ride with CJC and be out of this thread. My bad for the yellow.. should have know better. It just ticks me off when someone doesn't know jack about an area (especially when you lived and raised in YC for 3 years and work there as a consultant).
    Men do dumb $hit... it is what they do to correct the problem that counts.

  10. #35
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    Quote Originally posted by CPSURaf View post
    Job Base:
    Yuba City: Beale AFB, Sunkist Company, Sutter County/Yuba City
    Hanford:Kings County/Del Monte Foods, A Casino

    Airpot:
    Yuba City: Yuba City Municipal Aiport
    Hanford: Hanford Municipal Aipor

    University:
    Yuba City: Chico State (45 mins)
    Hnaford: Fresno State (45 mins)

    Retail Sector:
    Yuba City- Largest retail sector in the sutter/yuba area (including a dare i say it, a mall (well 2 if you count the peach tree one))
    Hanford: You got me there (Although, it is "low income and rural" since it has super wal-mart).

    And with that i will hitch a ride with CJC and be out of this thread. My bad for the yellow.. should have know better. It just ticks me off when someone doesn't know jack about an area (especially when you lived and raised in YC for 3 years and work there as a consultant).
    The universitys are not in Yuba City or Hanford though, they are in other counties.

    Also, a municpal airport and those other businesses are not huge job bases.

    The casino is not in Hanford, it's in Lemoore. That's Lemoore's job base.

    Sutter County gov. is another local gov. job place. Every area has it.

    The food manufactoring companies and the malls are probably just enough to allow the cities to function.

    And last, but not least you got to think of big job employers that hire the masses and will pay for people to have families in decent homes. A manufactoring factory, mall, and municipal airport isn't a job core. A job core is a university, airport with major airlines, several large retail department stores, a tourist market, and other big industries. Five Cities has Diablo Canyon. Morro Bay has the harbor. Paso Robles had the state youth authority, and now is living off a small retail sector, municipal airport, and community college. Atascadero has a mental hospital. All the beaches have a good tourist market.

  11. #36
    Cyburbian rcgplanner's avatar
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    Urban, I am trying to figure out what exactly you are trying to research here. I think that is one of the problems we are having with this thread. You jump from talking about the different types of retail present in different types of cities to talking about teenage culture. You have lots of observations which can be a starting point for research but are not always fact. Alot of the observations you put forward are biased, either towards California or towards certain socio-economic divisions. If you are looking at research from just a California viewpoint that is one thing, but don't try to extrapolate over the country as a whole, there is a lot more to this country than just California.

    Teenagers all over the country tend to hang out, party and go to bowling alleys, etc. This is not an urban vs. rural thing, this is typical of what the American teenager does. Teens do the similar things whether it's in Sioux Falls, SD, Los Angeles, CA or Crawfordsville, IN.

    You may be onto something with differing styles of retail locating in different types of urban areas, but you would have to do the research to make sure. Each retailer has a metric for locating their stores. Some places look at income, while some may look at population density, or numbers of families, or location off a main freeway interchange. Whether one city has a retailer over another does not determine how urban or rural a place is. Charleston, SC has an Apple store, while Columbia, SC, home of the state capital, the major state university and the largest city in the state does not.

    Urbanity is a combination of many factors. Retail may give you one piece of the puzzle, but is not the only piece of the puzzle. The urban form is complex which is why most urban planning programs are multidisciplinary including the study of sociology, geography, architecture, political science, economics, statistics, etc. Condensing the urban form down to one component is a big mistake.

  12. #37
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    Alright, I talked to my urban 101 teacher and he said that there is an urban core in Yuba City and Hanford. He also said that they have Costcos in their region, but not in the countys yet. He says they could have a Costco in those cities over time.

    He said malls are generally signs of where urban cores are. He said all malls are urban except for ones typically found in the mid-west in small rural towns.

    He also said traditionally malls are found in heart of downtown urban cores. He said others might be found in retail sectors in outlying areas of cities.

    He also said that Costcos tend to be in business districts, and are not near urban cores because they take up too much space. He says they also tend to like for areas with families with average income levels. He also said Costcos like to face main streets or main freeways.

    So I was wrong about Yuba City and Hanford not having urban cores. They do have urban cores.

    He also said I was about city life for teens. He said those activities are normal hang-out spots for teens living urban life.

  13. #38
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    Quote Originally posted by urban19 View post
    He also said traditionally malls are found in heart of downtown urban cores. He said others might be found in retail sectors in outlying areas of cities.
    I don't know what cities your Urban 101 teacher is thinking of when he says this. The historical development model for shopping malls was to locate outside of downtown, usually on the fringes of cities where land was cheap and they could be build a sea of parking lots. This usually resulted in the historic downtown cores/business districts becoming underutilized and businesses going under. Their are numerous examples of this in California, the one that sticks out in my head is Escondido. The Westfield Mall is located in the far south of the City just east of the I-15. The historic downtown business district is located much further north in the heart of the city. While the the City has made some good attempts to revive downtown, much of its businesses still remain antique shops with a smattering of cafes. I doubt you would find many people in Escondido who would say the mall area is located in the heart of downtown urban cores.

  14. #39
    Cyburbian Raf's avatar
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    I think you and your Urban 101 teacher need to brush up on how to define an "urban core". Step away from the shopping areas and the things you "think" define an urban core and relay on something that is a bit more proven. The transect model used by new urbanist is a great example of defining an "urban core". This should be the start of your studies, is really defining the context of the core and than go on to question this whole retail thing you got going on.

    http://www.transect.org/transect.html

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Transect_(urban)
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  15. #40
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    Quote Originally posted by CPSURaf View post
    I think you and your Urban 101 teacher need to brush up on how to define an "urban core". Step away from the shopping areas and the things you "think" define an urban core and relay on something that is a bit more proven. The transect model used by new urbanist is a great example of defining an "urban core". This should be the start of your studies, is really defining the context of the core and than go on to question this whole retail thing you got going on.

    http://www.transect.org/transect.html

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Transect_(urban)
    I think my teacher was refering to how upscale department stores and malls like Horton Plaza and San Francisco Center are in their urban core. Or Paseo Nuevo in Santa Barbara. Also, we have the Santa Monica Promenade. Another good example is the Panarama City Mall.

    I know most malls are outside the urban cores these days, but malls are general found in "cities with urban cores". Malls are apart of urban life.

  16. #41
    Cyburbian DetroitPlanner's avatar
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    Quote Originally posted by urban19 View post
    I know most malls are outside the urban cores these days, but malls are general found in "cities with urban cores". Malls are apart of urban life.
    There are way more dead downtowns in terms of retail than there are lively ones. For example, no one goes to Downtown LA to hang out or shop. Even New York has less department stores in Manhatten than it did 20 years ago. Why? Because people are shopping at the Walmart by their house in the burbs.
    We hope for better things; it will arise from the ashes - Fr Gabriel Richard 1805

  17. #42
    Cyburbian Plus PlannerGirl's avatar
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    Urban19 I have to ask you in all seriousness exactly why are you here? What do you hope to gain or learn from your interactions with those of us who work every day in various aspects of land development?

    You are starting to sound more and more like a "one trick pony"* and have no real interest in LEARNING or really contributing anything to our community. In such take this as a warning before the moderation hat/crew come calling and remove you from Cyburbia. Learn and contribute beyond rehashing the same ill advised ideas over and over, many members have tried hard to guide, nudge, brow beat and dare you into thinking for yourself but you refuse to hear them.

    Patience has run out.

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    This rule is intended to keep people from derailing or hijacking threads by constantly posting about their pet topic, not to stifle discussion and debate.
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  18. #43
    Cyburbian Raf's avatar
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    looks like it's time for "re-'ned'ucation"
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  19. #44
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    Quote Originally posted by DetroitPlanner View post
    There are way more dead downtowns in terms of retail than there are lively ones. For example, no one goes to Downtown LA to hang out or shop. Even New York has less department stores in Manhatten than it did 20 years ago. Why? Because people are shopping at the Walmart by their house in the burbs.
    I agree there are not many malls in downtowns and urban cores anymore. I think cities with urban cores have malls though. I think they arent in the urban cores, but I think they are some where in the city.

    Anyways, I think the discussion about urban cores, malls, and Costco is over. So I hope this thread will get back on topic about the city of San Luis Obispo.

    San Luis Obispo is a college town. It has some rural areas, suburban areas, and an urban core (downtown). There is 45,000 population in the city. There is an additional 6,200 population living in the Cal Poly dorms. Cal Poly San Luis Obispo is the major university on the northern part of the city. The city also has a county airport, county jail and state jail, several large hospitals, and a retail sector in the western outskirts of the city. All rural homes are on the outskirts of the city and some suburban homes surround the urban core. The tallest building in the city is 100 ft. and and there are 4 large buildings facing each other-County Government Center, City Offices Building, Anderson Hotel, and County Court House. There are about 100 ft tall. The city is also surrounded by farms and hills.
    Last edited by urban19; 02 Sep 2009 at 5:10 PM.

  20. #45
    Cyburbian DetroitPlanner's avatar
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    Quote Originally posted by urban19 View post
    I agree there are not many malls in downtowns and urban cores anymore. I think cities with urban cores have malls though.
    There were never 'malls' in most downtowns. Where was downtown Detroit's Mall? Los Angeles? Toledo? Flint? Newark? Pittsburg? Washington DC? These towns all had large department stores but they are now gone and these are certainly 'urban' places, much more 'urban' than SLO. Your definitions, generalizations and pigeonholing are not winning your argument.

    Some of these places did however fall for the "Music Man's" Festival Marketplace concept, which while kind of a mall, really wasn't one. Maybe its because you can find bowling alleys in these towns that they don't have malls?
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  21. #46
    Cyburbian Bubba's avatar
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    Off-topic:
    The unintentional comedy in this thread is awesome - I should have checked in on this one earlier...
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  22. #47
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    Quote Originally posted by Bubba View post
    Off-topic:
    The unintentional comedy in this thread is awesome - I should have checked in on this one earlier...
    Off-topic:
    I come here on my lunch breaks for entertainment.

  23. #48
    Cyburbian Raf's avatar
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    I like contributing to train wrecks... or as my old dorm mates used to call me "the firestarter"
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  24. #49
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    Again, Im directing this thread about San Luis Obispo.

    "San Luis Obispo is a college town. It has some rural areas, suburban areas, and an urban core (downtown). There is 45,000 population in the city. There is an additional 6,200 population living in the Cal Poly dorms. Cal Poly San Luis Obispo is the major university on the northern part of the city. The city also has a county airport, county jail and state jail, several large hospitals, and a retail sector in the western outskirts of the city. All rural homes are on the outskirts of the city and some suburban homes surround the urban core. The tallest building in the city is 100 ft. and and there are 4 large buildings facing each other-County Government Center, City Offices Building, Anderson Hotel, and County Court House. There are about 100 ft tall. The city is also surrounded by farms and hills."

  25. #50
    Cyburbian Raf's avatar
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    Quote Originally posted by urban19 View post
    Again, Im directing this thread about San Luis Obispo.

    "San Luis Obispo is a college town. It has some rural areas, suburban areas, and an urban core (downtown). There is 45,000 population in the city. There is an additional 6,200 population living in the Cal Poly dorms. Cal Poly San Luis Obispo is the major university on the northern part of the city. The city also has a county airport, county jail and state jail, several large hospitals, and a retail sector in the western outskirts of the city. All rural homes are on the outskirts of the city and some suburban homes surround the urban core. The tallest building in the city is 100 ft. and and there are 4 large buildings facing each other-County Government Center, City Offices Building, Anderson Hotel, and County Court House. There are about 100 ft tall. The city is also surrounded by farms and hills."
    and ur point is?
    Men do dumb $hit... it is what they do to correct the problem that counts.

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