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Poll results: What do you think the outcome of tomorrow's presidential election will be?

Voters
26. You may not vote on this poll
  • Obama wins electoral and popular vote

    20 76.92%
  • Romney wins electoral and popular vote

    2 7.69%
  • Gary Johnson wins electoral and popular vote :thumb:

    0 0%
  • Obama wins electoral vote, Romney wins popular vote

    4 15.38%
  • Romney wins electoral vote, Obama wins popular vote

    0 0%
  • Obama and Romney tie in the electoral vote

    0 0%
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Thread: The First 2012 Presidential Election Thread

  1. #326
    OH....IO Hink's avatar
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    Quote Originally posted by boiker View post
    Here's a chart of job growth in the past decades: http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn...010101478.html
    Pretty amazing if you ask me. That chart is telling. There are numerous factors, but still over 10 years we were hurting.
    A common mistake people make when trying to design something completely foolproof is to underestimate the ingenuity of complete fools. -Douglas Adams

  2. #327
    Cyburbian imaplanner's avatar
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    Quote Originally posted by illinoisplanner View post
    I used to like Sarah Palin. I still agree with much of what she stands for and admire her passion and her down-to-earth personality. But I think she would be a terrible leader and she has made way too many mistakes and has way too little experience to successfully lead this country. We already tried a newcomer like Obama and look what mess that has gotten us into. As Burb Fixer pointed out, quitting the Alaska governorship only 2.5 years in was very foolish. And she is way too polarizing of a figure to successfully lead the country. Also, the media and the Left have collected way too much fodder to use against her. She is so prone to mis-speaking that she has become a liability to the party and she just needs to go back to Alaska.

    I've since joined the Mitt bandwagon (and have been on it for probably the past six months or so). I see him as a viable alternative to Obama, who has a very strong record of dealing with economical and other domestic issues and has a great deal of executive experience. My only hang-up with him has been his almost too-polished image and not having that down-to-earth charisma that Bush had. He seems to have gotten a little better with that though, and I hope he continues.

    Weird. I like Romney. As best as I can tell- and based on his record, he and Palin are polar opposites. Romney's record shows him to be VERY similar to Obama. I have a hard time reconcilling how anyone can be for Palin and so opposed to Obama yet support Romney.
    Children in the back seat can cause accidents - and vice versa.

  3. #328
    Cyburbian illinoisplanner's avatar
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    Quote Originally posted by boiker View post
    You know what the #1 barrier for many start-ups and small businesses is? Health Care costs. I would consider venturing on my own if I could afford healthcare for my family as I start my business. As it is, healthcare is not affordable. In some ways, the HC reform helped make it easier for small businesses to provide health care. In other ways, it appears to be stringing along the existing burdens. Real reform is necessary, not a patch job. We need to make it easier for young and middle-aged professionals to start their own businesses without compromising their health.
    As someone who graduated college not too long ago and who now works for a small company, I completely agree with the premise of being able to stay on your parents' plan for longer and being able to get affordable healthcare on your own. However, this bill is just this confusing monstrosity that nobody can really put their finger on and is way too large, massive, expensive, over-reaching, and hastily assembled. Do all those provisions really need to be in there? Does it really have to cost almost a trillion dollars or are there more cost-effective ways to reform the system? I think someone like Romney would be able to go in and make it simpler and work with both sides to tweak the bill to make it work for everyone.

    Quote Originally posted by boiker
    You are correct. The tax cuts did spur job creation--just not in the USA (save for a small percentage). Job growth for American industries in foreign countries is still growing. US labor is at a tremendous competitive disadvantage compared to developing nations and our trade and tax policies support this disadvantage. Where jobs did grow during the Bush years were in government. http://www.nytimes.com/2008/02/09/bu.../09charts.html
    Well, government jobs or not, the point is that Bush's policies kept the unemployment rate at or below 6% for the vast majority of his presidency.

    You know, if Obama wants to put us another trillion dollars in the whole and create lots of government jobs just for the sake of reducing the unemployment rate...great. I'm all for trying the liberal way of doing things if it means the unemployment rate will drastically decrease and the economy will improve. But he's already tried that and it hasn't worked!! So...time for someone else with different ideas and approaches to solving problems to give it a shot.

    Quote Originally posted by imaplanner
    Weird. I like Romney. As best as I can tell- and based on his record, he and Palin are polar opposites. Romney's record shows him to be VERY similar to Obama. I have a hard time reconcilling how anyone can be for Palin and so opposed to Obama yet support Romney.
    Well, the conservative in me likes Sarah Palin for her strong pro-life, pro-gun views. I also like her charisma, charm, and personality, and her representation of an ordinary American family woman who came from a very humble background. But at this dire point in our country's history, I don't care so much about ideologies as I do about someone that can go in and turn this thing around and get the country moving in the right direction again. Sarah has failed to prove that she has the leadership capabilities and experience to make that happen on a national level, whereas I think Mitt Romney definitely does. I just like his approach and his track record of looking at everything, making an analysis, and coming to the best conclusion to fix large problems and turn things around regardless of ideology. And that's what our country needs right now.
    "Life's a journey, not a destination"
    -Steven Tyler

  4. #329
    OH....IO Hink's avatar
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    Quote Originally posted by illinoisplanner View post
    Well, government jobs or not, the point is that Bush's policies kept the unemployment rate at or below 6% for the vast majority of his presidency.
    Your killing me IP. Isn't it the R's that are KILLING government jobs because they aren't as valuable as private sector jobs?

    So you would support a large increase in government size right now as long as it produces jobs for the country?
    A common mistake people make when trying to design something completely foolproof is to underestimate the ingenuity of complete fools. -Douglas Adams

  5. #330
    Cyburbian imaplanner's avatar
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    Quote Originally posted by illinoisplanner View post
    Well, the conservative in me likes Sarah Palin for her strong pro-life, pro-gun views. I also like her charisma, charm, and personality, and her representation of an ordinary American family woman who came from a very humble background. But at this dire point in our country's history, I don't care so much about ideologies as I do about someone that can go in and turn this thing around and get the country moving in the right direction again. Sarah has failed to prove that she has the leadership capabilities and experience to make that happen on a national level, whereas I think Mitt Romney definitely does. I just like his approach and his track record of looking at everything, making an analysis, and coming to the best conclusion to fix large problems and turn things around regardless of ideology. And that's what our country needs right now.
    I will agree with you on this regarding Romney.
    Children in the back seat can cause accidents - and vice versa.

  6. #331
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    Quote Originally posted by illinoisplanner View post
    But at this dire point in our country's history, I don't care so much about ideologies as I do about someone that can go in and turn this thing around and get the country moving in the right direction again.
    BINGO! Hammer, meet the head of the nail...

    I'd go one step further and same once we're out of this mess, we leave the social issues to the states as the Constitution intended. Thus, a national candidate doesn't have to be concerned with those stances.
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  7. #332
    Cyburbian illinoisplanner's avatar
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    Quote Originally posted by Hink_Planner View post
    Your killing me IP. Isn't it the R's that are KILLING government jobs because they aren't as valuable as private sector jobs?
    Yes, and I don't fully agree with that ideological approach to fixing the economic situation. There are plenty of other things in the federal government that can be cut that aren't actual jobs.

    So you would support a large increase in government size right now as long as it produces jobs for the country?
    Yes, I would support it if it produced substantial amounts of jobs, led to growth in other industries, and really got the economy going again. But the fact of the matter is, we've tried the stimulus thing and it did not work. I'm all about trying different strategies and solutions, regardless of ideology, but I just hope we learn from our mistakes and not keep doing the same things that have yielded nothing.
    "Life's a journey, not a destination"
    -Steven Tyler

  8. #333
    Cyburbian btrage's avatar
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    Quote Originally posted by illinoisplanner View post
    Yes, and I don't fully agree with that ideological approach to fixing the economic situation. There are plenty of other things in the federal government that can be cut that aren't actual jobs.



    Yes, I would support it if it produced substantial amounts of jobs, led to growth in other industries, and really got the economy going again. But the fact of the matter is, we've tried the stimulus thing and it did not work. I'm all about trying different strategies and solutions, regardless of ideology, but I just hope we learn from our mistakes and not keep doing the same things that have yielded nothing.
    The stimulus didn't have as much of a punch because it wasn't large enough. Many think it should've been more around $1 trillion. We tried to half-ass it, for very reasons, and it didn't work. To lay the failures of the stimulus at the feet of Obama is ridiculous.
    "I'm very important. I have many leather-bound books and my apartment smells of rich mahogany"

  9. #334
    Cyburbian imaplanner's avatar
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    Quote Originally posted by btrage View post
    The stimulus didn't have as much of a punch because it wasn't large enough. Many think it should've been more around $1 trillion. We tried to half-ass it, for very reasons, and it didn't work. To lay the failures of the stimulus at the feet of Obama is ridiculous.
    I am firmly of the opinion that the GOP is actively working to make sure the economy does not improve by 2012. I think it's pretty dam obvious- as they have resisted, filibustered and otherwise done everything they can to stop ALL efforts Obama has tried. Meanwhile they have proposed nothing other than "more tax cuts!". All of thei half-a$$ proposals have been shown by the CBO and other trusted economists to actually contribute to more job losses.

    However, if Romney gets elected they will work with a republican president to make the economy get better. Yes they are holding us hostage. Yes it is absolutely disgusting. Yes they should all be hung. BUT- fine - they hold the power and they win. I'll bend over and let Boehner have his way with me so long as the dam economy gets better.
    Children in the back seat can cause accidents - and vice versa.

  10. #335
    Cyburbian illinoisplanner's avatar
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    Quote Originally posted by btrage View post
    The stimulus didn't have as much of a punch because it wasn't large enough. Many think it should've been more around $1 trillion. We tried to half-ass it, for very reasons, and it didn't work. To lay the failures of the stimulus at the feet of Obama is ridiculous.
    Obama should definitely take full responsibility for it. After all...he signed the legislation! And his party (who as president, he is the de facto leader of) had a solid majority in Congress. They didn't need Republican votes, and they didn't get many either. They could have made that bill whatever they wanted, just like with healthcare. Any failure (or success) resulting from the stimulus should definitely be placed at the feet of Obama.
    "Life's a journey, not a destination"
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  11. #336
    Cyburbian imaplanner's avatar
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    Quote Originally posted by illinoisplanner View post
    Obama should definitely take full responsibility for it. After all...he signed the legislation! And his party (who as president, he is the de facto leader of) had a solid majority in Congress. They didn't need Republican votes, and they didn't get many either. .
    That is a falsehood that passes as gospel on Fox News. The democrats never had a 60 vote majority to stop the filibuster. Never, ever. And they only had 59 and a Lieberman for approximately 3 months -during which time no substantially notable/controversial legislation was passed. The stimulus required obtaining enough republican support to defeat the republican filibuster threat, as did HCR.
    Children in the back seat can cause accidents - and vice versa.

  12. #337
    Cyburbian illinoisplanner's avatar
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    Quote Originally posted by imaplanner View post
    That is a falsehood that passes as gospel on Fox News. The democrats never had a 60 vote majority to stop the filibuster. Never, ever. And they only had 59 and a Lieberman for approximately 3 months -during which time no substantially notable/controversial legislation was passed. The stimulus required obtaining enough republican support to defeat the republican filibuster threat, as did HCR.
    OK, so they had to get maybe one or two liberal Republican senators to go along with it...big deal.
    "Life's a journey, not a destination"
    -Steven Tyler

  13. #338
    Cyburbian Plus Whose Yur Planner's avatar
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    Quote Originally posted by illinoisplanner View post
    OK, so they had to get maybe one or two liberal Republican senators to go along with it...big deal.
    Isn't the idea of a liberal republican an oxymoron? Especially since the R's had a Stalinesque purge of the moderates.
    When did I go from Luke Skywalker to Obi-Wan Kenobi?

  14. #339
    Cyburbian illinoisplanner's avatar
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    Quote Originally posted by Whose Yur Planner View post
    Isn't the idea of a liberal republican an oxymoron? Especially since the R's had a Stalinesque purge of the moderates.
    Last time I checked, Olympia Snowe was still around. Granted, she wasn't up for re-election last time, but still...
    "Life's a journey, not a destination"
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  15. #340
    Cyburbian btrage's avatar
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    Quote Originally posted by illinoisplanner View post
    OK, so they had to get maybe one or two liberal Republican senators to go along with it...big deal.
    But that's the point. They had to claw and fight for "one or two" votes, just to get a half-assed stimulus package through.
    "I'm very important. I have many leather-bound books and my apartment smells of rich mahogany"

  16. #341
    Cyburbian imaplanner's avatar
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    Poor Mitt Romney. He admitted last week that anthropogenic global warming is real, and the right is going nuts. I don't think he can get the nomination now. He should run as an independent.
    Children in the back seat can cause accidents - and vice versa.

  17. #342
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    So now Newt is probably going to be out and......

    Rick Perry is in! Yes! Now we just need Sarah Palin to run....


    Please oh please do I want to see Michelle Bachmann vs. Rick Perry vs. Sarah Palin.

    It would be hilarious. Although I would bet Mitt, Huntsman, and Pawlenty would be annoyed that they have to deal with such idiots.
    A common mistake people make when trying to design something completely foolproof is to underestimate the ingenuity of complete fools. -Douglas Adams

  18. #343
    OH....IO Hink's avatar
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    So I watched the debates last night.... pretty funny really.

    I find it odd that the whole time I kept yelling to my wife - it is like watching Saturday Night Live.

    The whole debate just seemed so surreal. Michelle Bachmann was there - which to me just makes the whole thing a joke - but was probably the second or third most coherent person there.

    -Herman Cain won't have Muslims in his cabinet. Because there are bad Muslims and he is thinking about them...

    -All of the candidates were uncomfortable on social issues. I still don't understand Bachmann when she is talking about keeping government out of peoples lives on the first couple questions, then says that we should have regulations in place that ban same-sex marriage and abortion. At least she thought those regulations should be state based, not federally based like Santorum and Romney.

    -Ron Paul is refreshing in that he is consistent in his views. He isn't a living contradiction like many republicans seem to be.
    A common mistake people make when trying to design something completely foolproof is to underestimate the ingenuity of complete fools. -Douglas Adams

  19. #344
    Cyburbian btrage's avatar
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    Quote Originally posted by Hink_Planner View post
    So I watched the debates last night.... pretty funny really.

    I find it odd that the whole time I kept yelling to my wife - it is like watching Saturday Night Live.

    The whole debate just seemed so surreal. Michelle Bachmann was there - which to me just makes the whole thing a joke - but was probably the second or third most coherent person there.

    -Herman Cain won't have Muslims in his cabinet. Because there are bad Muslims and he is thinking about them...

    -All of the candidates were uncomfortable on social issues. I still don't understand Bachmann when she is talking about keeping government out of peoples lives on the first couple questions, then says that we should have regulations in place that ban same-sex marriage and abortion. At least she thought those regulations should be state based, not federally based like Santorum and Romney.

    -Ron Paul is refreshing in that he is consistent in his views. He isn't a living contradiction like many republicans seem to be.
    Paul came across as the old, angry white guy.

    Cain reminded me of Johnnie Cochran.

    Bachmann is a better spoken Palin.

    Romney came across as a douche.

    Santorum reminds me of the rich college kid who is also a douche.

    Pawlenty looked horrible trying to squirm out of the Obamneycare question.

    I would say, in no particular order, the winners were Bachmann, Romney and Pawlenty.
    "I'm very important. I have many leather-bound books and my apartment smells of rich mahogany"

  20. #345
    moderator in moderation Suburb Repairman's avatar
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    Quote Originally posted by Hink_Planner View post
    So now Newt is probably going to be out and......

    Rick Perry is in! Yes! Now we just need Sarah Palin to run....


    Please oh please do I want to see Michelle Bachmann vs. Rick Perry vs. Sarah Palin.

    It would be hilarious. Although I would bet Mitt, Huntsman, and Pawlenty would be annoyed that they have to deal with such idiots.
    You wouldn't think that was funny if you'd put up with Perry as Governor for the last 11 years and Bush for 6 before that.

    "Oh, that is all well and good, but, voice or no voice, the people can always be brought to the bidding of the leaders. That is easy. All you have to do is tell them they are being attacked and denounce the pacifists for lack of patriotism and exposing the country to danger. It works the same way in any country."

    - Herman Göring at the Nuremburg trials (thoughts on democracy)

  21. #346
    Cyburbian imaplanner's avatar
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    Maybe y'all can help me. It is very important to me who God endorses. But Michelle Bachman has said God has endorsed her. Herman Cain has said God has endorsed him. Rick Santorum has said God has endorsed him. I am confused?
    Children in the back seat can cause accidents - and vice versa.

  22. #347
    Cyburbian mgk920's avatar
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    Quote Originally posted by btrage View post
    Paul came across as the old, angry white guy.

    Cain reminded me of Johnnie Cochran.

    Bachmann is a better spoken Palin.

    Romney came across as a douche.

    Santorum reminds me of the rich college kid who is also a douche.

    Pawlenty looked horrible trying to squirm out of the Obamneycare question.

    I would say, in no particular order, the winners were Bachmann, Romney and Pawlenty.
    How would BHO have done had he been thrown in in a hypothetical 'non-partisan' debate?



    Mike

  23. #348
    Cyburbian TexanOkie's avatar
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    There was surprisingly little confrontation or animosity between the candidates during the debate. When John King even tried to spur on such discourse, the candidates didn't go with it. The only one who seemed a little testy when it came to others was Newt, who interrupted people a few times as "mischaraterizing" him, etc.

  24. #349
    Cyburbian btrage's avatar
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    Quote Originally posted by mgk920 View post
    How would BHO have done had he been thrown in in a hypothetical 'non-partisan' debate?



    Mike
    Who cares. This isn't about him. FWIW, I'm not a big "BHO" fan, so the next time I make a comment about the GOP, please don't come back with any "But what about BHO, blah, blah, blah. Such a tired act.
    "I'm very important. I have many leather-bound books and my apartment smells of rich mahogany"

  25. #350
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    Quote Originally posted by btrage View post
    Bachmann is a better spoken Palin.
    So were my kids by age five or so...
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