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Poll results: What do you think the outcome of tomorrow's presidential election will be?

Voters
26. You may not vote on this poll
  • Obama wins electoral and popular vote

    20 76.92%
  • Romney wins electoral and popular vote

    2 7.69%
  • Gary Johnson wins electoral and popular vote :thumb:

    0 0%
  • Obama wins electoral vote, Romney wins popular vote

    4 15.38%
  • Romney wins electoral vote, Obama wins popular vote

    0 0%
  • Obama and Romney tie in the electoral vote

    0 0%
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Thread: The First 2012 Presidential Election Thread

  1. #351
    OH....IO Hink's avatar
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    Quote Originally posted by mgk920 View post
    How would BHO have done had he been thrown in in a hypothetical 'non-partisan' debate?



    Mike
    If it was him and these guys, he would have been attacked like a eucalyptus leaf in a koala den.

    Although I think he would have probably had a bit to say about the characterizations of his administration.

    -------------

    I was pretty disappointed that these people are meant to be the alternative to Obama. They are pretty unpalatable to me. I enjoyed the question about how should the R vote who is being pushed out by the Tea Party. The answer was - the tea party is good, constitution, small government, backbone of the country and some other blabber... nothing to tell the guy that the R party is for anyone but the hard right. It annoys me.

    And instead of having a candidate that ignores the social issues - they all are on the wrong side of history when it comes to gay rights. It amazes me that as I watch, I just think to myself... my kids will watch this debate in 25 years and be amazed at how anyone could have been so wrong on this issue. Why wouldn't when asked about your social beliefs say - I don't really care to answer that because I am not going to make it a priority in my Administration, the Economy is what we should be talking about. Instead they went with the tried and true Social Conservative song and dance.

    Ron Paul did say it right - there is no need to qualify all these groups like gay Americans - we are just Americans.

    ps. Ron Paul is a funny old man.
    A common mistake people make when trying to design something completely foolproof is to underestimate the ingenuity of complete fools. -Douglas Adams

  2. #352
    Cyburbian Plus Whose Yur Planner's avatar
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    Quote Originally posted by mgk920 View post
    How would BHO have done had he been thrown in in a hypothetical 'non-partisan' debate?



    Mike
    You mean if he was able to get a word edge wise after being called a marxist/socialst/communist/muslim/kenyan/nazi/joker/non-native/etc,etc,etc.....
    When did I go from Luke Skywalker to Obi-Wan Kenobi?

  3. #353
    Cyburbian mgk920's avatar
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    Quote Originally posted by btrage View post
    Who cares. This isn't about him. FWIW, I'm not a big "BHO" fan, so the next time I make a comment about the GOP, please don't come back with any "But what about BHO, blah, blah, blah. Such a tired act.
    I wasn't attacking you at all. I just consider debates to be incomplete if one or more of the major candidates are not included (BTW, I much prefer 'non-partisan' elections to systems with partisan primaries).

    Mike

  4. #354
    OH....IO Hink's avatar
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    Quote Originally posted by illinoisplanner View post
    As for the debate itself...awful. Jon King needs to shut up and quit interrupting people. And CNN needs to quit being a bunch of weasels and zoom in on the few people yawning or looking bored in the audience. It would have been a much better conversation and dialogue if the candidates could actually complete their thoughts.
    I was waiting for this. I thought the debate was pretty good from CNN. Jon King had to interrupt because the candidates can't follow the rules (as they never do).

    I thought that they did a pretty fair take on the questions. They didn't throw any gotcha questions - which I always find a joke because if you just answered the question it isn't a gotcha question - and they gave everyone a pretty fair shake in terms of time.

    Yea Jon King cut people off, but most the time it was when they went off track and started ranting. I don't know that any other news agency could have done better. Or do you think Fox News would have been more fair and balanced?
    A common mistake people make when trying to design something completely foolproof is to underestimate the ingenuity of complete fools. -Douglas Adams

  5. #355
    Cyburbian btrage's avatar
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    Quote Originally posted by Hink_Planner View post
    I was waiting for this. I thought the debate was pretty good from CNN. Jon King had to interrupt because the candidates can't follow the rules (as they never do).

    I thought that they did a pretty fair take on the questions. They didn't throw any gotcha questions - which I always find a joke because if you just answered the question it isn't a gotcha question - and they gave everyone a pretty fair shake in terms of time.

    Yea Jon King cut people off, but most the time it was when they went off track and started ranting. I don't know that any other news agency could have done better. Or do you think Fox News would have been more fair and balanced?
    The "This or That" questions were an assault on my intelligence. I learned sooooo much about Cain because now I know he prefers deep dish pizza. And Bachmann has Elvis' Christmas on her iPod!!!!!! Stupid.
    "I'm very important. I have many leather-bound books and my apartment smells of rich mahogany"

  6. #356
    Cyburbian illinoisplanner's avatar
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    Quote Originally posted by Hink_Planner View post
    I was waiting for this. I thought the debate was pretty good from CNN. Jon King had to interrupt because the candidates can't follow the rules (as they never do).

    I thought that they did a pretty fair take on the questions. They didn't throw any gotcha questions - which I always find a joke because if you just answered the question it isn't a gotcha question - and they gave everyone a pretty fair shake in terms of time.

    Yea Jon King cut people off, but most the time it was when they went off track and started ranting. I don't know that any other news agency could have done better. Or do you think Fox News would have been more fair and balanced?
    I think the time limits were way too short, if non-existent. You can't cram a response into 10 seconds...and I think that's what Jon King wanted half the time. It's a debate, not a soundbite fest. It's not like we have 11 candidates up there...we have 7...it should be pretty manageable. I understand interrupting when the candidates go off-track, but so many other times, the candidates were on track, and Jon King wouldn't even let them finish a sentence before saying mmm-hmm, mmm-hmm, mmm-hmm. It's like shut up...you can nod if you want to, but it makes for bad TV when I can't hear the canddiates because Jon King keeps talking and mumbling.

    And I don't know if Fox News would have been better. It all depends on the format, the moderator, and the rules and how well they are laid out and enforced.
    "Life's a journey, not a destination"
    -Steven Tyler

  7. #357
    Cyburbian imaplanner's avatar
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    Quote Originally posted by illinoisplanner View post

    And I don't know if Fox News would have been better. It all depends on the format, the moderator, and the rules and how well they are laid out and enforced.
    I would love to see the republican debate on fox news.
    Children in the back seat can cause accidents - and vice versa.

  8. #358
    Cyburbian mgk920's avatar
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    Texas Governor Rick Perry, this past weekend:

    “Stop apologizing”

    “Our opponents on the left are never going to like us, so let’s stop trying to curry favor with them”

    I like that attitude.



    Mike

  9. #359
    OH....IO Hink's avatar
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    Quote Originally posted by mgk920 View post
    Texas Governor Rick Perry, this past weekend:

    “Stop apologizing”

    “Our opponents on the left are never going to like us, so let’s stop trying to curry favor with them”

    I like that attitude.



    Mike
    He will be absolutely hilarious to watch run. He is not only a Tea Party person, but he is a social conservative to boot. He will be crucified if he won the R nomination (which he won't even get 10% of unless Bachmann bows out early).

    I do look forward to the commercials.... Rick Perry doesn't even want to be part of the United States... and now he wants to be President... vote for Rick Perry in 2012....
    A common mistake people make when trying to design something completely foolproof is to underestimate the ingenuity of complete fools. -Douglas Adams

  10. #360
    Cyburbian TexanOkie's avatar
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    Quote Originally posted by Hink_Planner View post
    He will be absolutely hilarious to watch run. He is not only a Tea Party person, but he is a social conservative to boot. He will be crucified if he won the R nomination (which he won't even get 10% of unless Bachmann bows out early).

    I do look forward to the commercials.... Rick Perry doesn't even want to be part of the United States... and now he wants to be President... vote for Rick Perry in 2012....
    Perry's not so much of either, though (Tea Party or social conservative). He only talks. In reality, he accepts craploads of stimulus money from the Obama administration, mandates young women to get the HPV vaccine in order to enroll at public high schools, and endeavors (unsuccessfully) to create a whole new infrastructure program and state-directed development corridor through private property across the state, all while failing to lower property taxes like he campaigned on in 2006 (Texas has some of the highest property taxes in the nation).

  11. #361
    Cyburbian imaplanner's avatar
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    Quote Originally posted by TexanOkie View post
    Perry's not so much of either, though (Tea Party or social conservative). He only talks. In reality, he accepts craploads of stimulus money from the Obama administration, mandates young women to get the HPV vaccine in order to enroll at public high schools, and endeavors (unsuccessfully) to create a whole new infrastructure program and state-directed development corridor through private property across the state, all while failing to lower property taxes like he campaigned on in 2006 (Texas has some of the highest property taxes in the nation).
    But he has nice hair, talks with a drawl and carries a handgun. He also says things like "less regulation!!!" and "darn libruls!"
    Children in the back seat can cause accidents - and vice versa.

  12. #362
    OH....IO Hink's avatar
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    Quote Originally posted by TexanOkie View post
    (Texas has some of the highest property taxes in the nation).
    Off-topic:
    Just like Florida. You have to get your tax money from somewhere. You can pretend like your state is business friendly, but the State will get your money one way or the other...
    A common mistake people make when trying to design something completely foolproof is to underestimate the ingenuity of complete fools. -Douglas Adams

  13. #363
    Cyburbian TexanOkie's avatar
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    Off-topic:
    Quote Originally posted by Hink_Planner View post
    Off-topic:
    You have to get your tax money from somewhere... the State will get your money one way or the other...
    Truer words have never been spoken.

    "[I]n this world nothing can be said to be certain, except death and taxes." -Ben Franklin

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Maz9ddxEQnM

  14. #364
    Cyburbian imaplanner's avatar
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    Texas actually is quite business friendly. What they give up in corporate taxes they make up for with other taxes on their citizens.

    I actually would welcome an honest debate on the economic models of Texas and California.

    Texas does lead the nation in jobs created in the last decade, but they also lead the nation in health problems, minimum wage jobs, undereducated citizenry, etc.
    Children in the back seat can cause accidents - and vice versa.

  15. #365
    Cyburbian TexanOkie's avatar
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    Quote Originally posted by imaplanner View post
    Texas actually is quite business friendly. What they give up in corporate taxes they make up for with other taxes on their citizens.

    I actually would welcome an honest debate on the economic models of Texas and California.

    Texas does lead the nation in jobs created in the last decade, but they also lead the nation in health problems, minimum wage jobs, undereducated citizenry, etc.
    Texas' taxes are blind to the corporate/citizen divide. They're "regressive", but only tax items that do not make such distinctions. Property taxes don't care whether you're a multimillion dollar corporation or a homeowner. The only real exception to this is Texas' franchise tax, complete with gross margins tax, that it levies on businesses that earn over a certain amount.

    I also dispute the claim that Texas leads the nation in many of those characteristics you mentioned. Perhaps in shear numbers, but no other state is as large as Texas where the market hasn't pushed salaries up, if even slightly, to match the increased cost of living. Do an objective cost of living comparison between California and Texas, or New York and Texas, or almost anywhere and Texas (especially on the coasts), and you'll most likely be shown that you'll have way more expendable income in Texas, on average. As to health problems and undereducated citizenry, we're definitely poor, but as a percentage of the population we're not leading; we're about on par with our geographic region - better in some aspects, worse in others - and as a whole probably in the lower 5-10.

  16. #366
    Cyburbian Plus Whose Yur Planner's avatar
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    Quote Originally posted by Hink_Planner View post
    Off-topic:
    Just like Florida. You have to get your tax money from somewhere. You can pretend like your state is business friendly, but the State will get your money one way or the other...
    That is the one thing I wish people would understand. State and local governments provide basic services. It cost money to provide those services. That money has got to come from somewhere. The alternative is putting up with services or shift the crappy service to the poor areas. You get what you pay for.
    When did I go from Luke Skywalker to Obi-Wan Kenobi?

  17. #367
    Cyburbian Brocktoon's avatar
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    Quote Originally posted by mgk920 View post
    Texas Governor Rick Perry, this past weekend:

    “Stop apologizing”

    “Our opponents on the left are never going to like us, so let’s stop trying to curry favor with them”

    I like that attitude.



    Mike
    Its moronic statements like this that keep anything from getting done at the federal and state level. IMO the quest for political purity has done more damage to this country than anything else in the past 30 years.
    "If you don't like change, you're going to like irrelevance even less" General Eric Shinseki

  18. #368
    moderator in moderation Suburb Repairman's avatar
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    Quote Originally posted by TexanOkie View post
    Texas' taxes are blind to the corporate/citizen divide. They're "regressive", but only tax items that do not make such distinctions. Property taxes don't care whether you're a multimillion dollar corporation or a homeowner. The only real exception to this is Texas' franchise tax, complete with gross margins tax, that it levies on businesses that earn over a certain amount.
    They're blind... except that I have yet to see a commercial property listed in the appraisal roles at even 50% of what its actual sales value is based on actual sales. In contrast, residential appraisals are generally accurate and even slightly inflated in some cases.

    I generally agree with you about the health information and educational attainment as it stands today, but the issue is TRENDS. Health and education levels are trending downward.

    "Oh, that is all well and good, but, voice or no voice, the people can always be brought to the bidding of the leaders. That is easy. All you have to do is tell them they are being attacked and denounce the pacifists for lack of patriotism and exposing the country to danger. It works the same way in any country."

    - Herman Göring at the Nuremburg trials (thoughts on democracy)

  19. #369
    Cyburbian mgk920's avatar
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    Quote Originally posted by Brocktoon View post
    Its moronic statements like this that keep anything from getting done at the federal and state level. IMO the quest for political purity has done more damage to this country than anything else in the past 30 years.
    Let's see, disagree with and oppose the lines of the left = 'ugly partisanism', 'throwing roadblocks in the way', 'gridlock', etc. Agree with and work with the left on their terms = 'progress', 'bi-partisanship', 'getting stuff done' and so forth.

    Got it!



    Mike

  20. #370
    Cyburbian Brocktoon's avatar
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    Quote Originally posted by mgk920 View post
    Let's see, disagree with and oppose the lines of the left = 'ugly partisanism', 'throwing roadblocks in the way', 'gridlock', etc. Agree with and work with the left on their terms = 'progress', 'bi-partisanship', 'getting stuff done' and so forth.

    Got it!



    Mike
    Thank you for proving my point that compromise is polarizing idea...rather than trying to solve problems and find solutions you can just engage in demagoguery.
    "If you don't like change, you're going to like irrelevance even less" General Eric Shinseki

  21. #371
    Cyburbian Plus Whose Yur Planner's avatar
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    Quote Originally posted by mgk920 View post
    Let's see, disagree with and oppose the lines of the left = 'ugly partisanism', 'throwing roadblocks in the way', 'gridlock', etc. Agree with and work with the left on their terms = 'progress', 'bi-partisanship', 'getting stuff done' and so forth.

    Got it!



    Mike
    Disagree with the right and you are a socalist, communist, antiamerican, not a christian, etc, etc.

    Got it

    When did I go from Luke Skywalker to Obi-Wan Kenobi?

  22. #372
    Cyburbian imaplanner's avatar
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    demagoguery. Mindless talking points. Fact-free rants. Welcome to the American political system.
    Children in the back seat can cause accidents - and vice versa.

  23. #373
    Cyburbian Planit's avatar
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    Gingrich's campaign fund raisers have now quit...it's okay Newt. You won't have been elected anyway.
    "Whatever beer I'm drinking, is better than the one I'm not." DMLW
    "Budweiser sells a product they reflectively insist on calling beer." John Oliver

  24. #374
    Cyburbian imaplanner's avatar
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    Some interesting factoids on candidates for president.

    Mitt Romney is an "anchor baby" whose dad was born in Mexico.

    Jon Huntsman did not graduate from high school.

    Michelle Bachman makes hundreds of thousands of dollars from government farm subsidies.

    Tim Pawlenty is duller than a sack of wet mice.
    Children in the back seat can cause accidents - and vice versa.

  25. #375
    Cyburbian Planit's avatar
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    Quote Originally posted by imaplanner View post
    Some interesting factoids on candidates for president.

    Mitt Romney is an "anchor baby" who was born in Mexico.

    .

    So are we going to sue him for his birth certificate and/or deport him under the new immigration bills being passed by various states?
    "Whatever beer I'm drinking, is better than the one I'm not." DMLW
    "Budweiser sells a product they reflectively insist on calling beer." John Oliver

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