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Poll results: What do you think the outcome of tomorrow's presidential election will be?

Voters
26. You may not vote on this poll
  • Obama wins electoral and popular vote

    20 76.92%
  • Romney wins electoral and popular vote

    2 7.69%
  • Gary Johnson wins electoral and popular vote :thumb:

    0 0%
  • Obama wins electoral vote, Romney wins popular vote

    4 15.38%
  • Romney wins electoral vote, Obama wins popular vote

    0 0%
  • Obama and Romney tie in the electoral vote

    0 0%
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Thread: The First 2012 Presidential Election Thread

  1. #626
    Cyburbian michaelskis's avatar
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    I wish we could have a reset button on the federal government. It makes me want to move.
    "A long habit of not thinking a thing wrong, gives it a superficial appearance of being right, and raises at first a formidable outcry in defense of custom. Time makes more converts than reason." - Thomas Paine Common Sense.

  2. #627
    moderator in moderation Suburb Repairman's avatar
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    And people in Texas wondered why Perry did everything he could to avoid debating his opponents in the governor race. He has absolutely no ability to think on his feet and cannot articulate principles he is supposedly passionate about in an impromptu setting. If you're passionate about something, then you should not have any trouble speaking about it when you are RUNNING FOR PRESIDENT!!!

    Perry is a career politician and an empty suit parroting talking points. Nothing more.

    My one glimmer of hope is that this spells the end of not just his presidential run, but leads to his retirement from political life at the end of this term as governor.

    "Oh, that is all well and good, but, voice or no voice, the people can always be brought to the bidding of the leaders. That is easy. All you have to do is tell them they are being attacked and denounce the pacifists for lack of patriotism and exposing the country to danger. It works the same way in any country."

    - Herman Göring at the Nuremburg trials (thoughts on democracy)

  3. #628
    Cyburbian illinoisplanner's avatar
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    I've said it before and I'll say it again...Rick Perry makes George W. Bush look like a rocket scientist!
    "Life's a journey, not a destination"
    -Steven Tyler

  4. #629
    Cyburbian imaplanner's avatar
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    Quote Originally posted by Suburb Repairman View post
    And people in Texas wondered why Perry did everything he could to avoid debating his opponents in the governor race. He has absolutely no ability to think on his feet and cannot articulate principles he is supposedly passionate about in an impromptu setting. If you're passionate about something, then you should not have any trouble speaking about it when you are RUNNING FOR PRESIDENT!!!

    Perry is a career politician and an empty suit parroting talking points. Nothing more.

    My one glimmer of hope is that this spells the end of not just his presidential run, but leads to his retirement from political life at the end of this term as governor.
    has Perry always had this much trouble thinking? He's had a very long and successful political career. I find it difficult to believe he has always been this way. To me, watching him debate and give speeches over the last few months it looks like he is suffering early onset dementia or something.

    Quote Originally posted by illinoisplanner View post
    I've said it before and I'll say it again...Rick Perry makes George W. Bush look like a rocket scientist!
    a lot of candidates, on both sides of the aisle, have been making W look like a rocket scientist lately. It's pretty darn astounding.
    Children in the back seat can cause accidents - and vice versa.

  5. #630
    Cyburbian Tarf's avatar
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    Quote Originally posted by imaplanner View post
    has Perry always had this much trouble thinking? He's had a very long and successful political career. I find it difficult to believe he has always been this way. To me, watching him debate and give speeches over the last few months it looks like he is suffering early onset dementia or something.

    He hasn't had to debate - not since his first election anyways. His staff kept him out of things like debates etc., since he had no problems with re-election. So while it's amazing, it's not altogether surprising, in my opinion.

    Also, I don't think it's dementia - I honestly think he may be on some form of drugs (though it could be prescription - i.e., legally prescribed, not the Rush Limbaugh kind).
    In the beginning the Universe was created. This has made a lot of people very angry and been widely regarded as a bad move. (Douglas Adams)

  6. #631
    Cyburbian biscuit's avatar
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    Quote Originally posted by imaplanner View post
    Romney is exactly the same as Obama. There is no difference between the two- and I'm going to just sit back and watch the brain-mushers tear the other side apart as the antichrist when in reality they are exactly the same.
    I have to disagree with you. Yes. they are both corporatist politicians who are at heart center-right in their beliefs. In truth, Mit Romney as President probably wouldn't bother me. However, a Romney presidency combined with the current Republican controlled house is downright frightening. His moderate tendencies as governor had everything to do with the tone of Massachusetts politics. He played to the crowed that got him elected. My fear is that he will continue this tendency, only with the ultra-conservative Republic base, and be nothing but a pass-through for all kinds of extreme legislation.

    So, to me this next election is much bigger than just the Presidency. It's about keeping the entire federal government from going off the rails and taking the remains of the middle class with it.

  7. #632
    OH....IO Hink's avatar
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    This is getting interesting...
    http://www.politico.com/news/stories/1111/68273.html

    The poll finds GOP voters increasingly coming to terms with the reality that Romney is likely to be their nominee. Asked who they believe will win the primary contest, regardless of who they want to win, 48 percent named Romney. Cain was second with 22 percent. Only 6 percent said Perry, and 3 percent identified Gingrich. The other candidates — Bachmann, former Pennslyvania Sen. Rick Santorum and former Utah Gov. Jon Huntsman — did not even register.
    I guess they didn't ask Paul supporters? They usually skew the data a bit...

    I think the Romney is the only person (besides Huntsman) that even has a shot in the general. I would argue that he has a pretty good shot really. That is unless the magic 8.9 or 8.5 happens in unemployment. Then it might just be enough for Obama to "prove" that he deserves another 4 years.
    A common mistake people make when trying to design something completely foolproof is to underestimate the ingenuity of complete fools. -Douglas Adams

  8. #633
    Cyburbian Richmond Jake's avatar
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    Herman Cain has a Rick Perry moment.

    http://blog.sfgate.com/nov05election...affairs/?tsp=1
    Annoyingly insensitive

  9. #634
    Cyburbian kalimotxo's avatar
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    Quote Originally posted by Richmond Jake View post
    Herman Cain has a Rick Perry moment.

    http://blog.sfgate.com/nov05election...affairs/?tsp=1
    Rick Perry had what I'd characterize as a brainfart.

    This Herman Cain incident is equivalent to a high schooler replying to an essay question with a ton of bullshit, hoping he gets partial credit for a mere turdlet of applied knowledge. He doesn't.
    Process and dismissal. Shelter and location. Everybody wants somewhere.

  10. #635
    Cyburbian imaplanner's avatar
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    Quote Originally posted by Richmond Jake View post
    Herman Cain has a Rick Perry moment.

    http://blog.sfgate.com/nov05election...affairs/?tsp=1
    I don't really blame him. He knows we had to act in Libya but he is smart enough to know that agreeing with Obama on anything is going to cost him. In that sense I really kind of feel for some of these guys- they know that saying anything reasonable is going to hurt their chances among the tea partiers.
    Children in the back seat can cause accidents - and vice versa.

  11. #636
    OH....IO Hink's avatar
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    Quote Originally posted by imaplanner View post
    I don't really blame him. He knows we had to act in Libya but he is smart enough to know that agreeing with Obama on anything is going to cost him. In that sense I really kind of feel for some of these guys- they know that saying anything reasonable is going to hurt their chances among the tea partiers.
    I disagree. I genuinely think he didn't have a clue as to what to answer. I want to say that it is the system... but man. I don't like Newt, but at least he understands history....

    Again we have Romney....
    A common mistake people make when trying to design something completely foolproof is to underestimate the ingenuity of complete fools. -Douglas Adams

  12. #637
    Cyburbian Tarf's avatar
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    Quote Originally posted by imaplanner View post
    I don't really blame him. He knows we had to act in Libya but he is smart enough to know that agreeing with Obama on anything is going to cost him. In that sense I really kind of feel for some of these guys- they know that saying anything reasonable is going to hurt their chances among the tea partiers.

    I don't feel for them one bit If they genuinely believe in something, they're spineless if they don't stand up for it.

    Applies to both parties of course.
    In the beginning the Universe was created. This has made a lot of people very angry and been widely regarded as a bad move. (Douglas Adams)

  13. #638
    Cyburbian Zoning Goddess's avatar
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    Quote Originally posted by imaplanner View post
    I don't really blame him. He knows we had to act in Libya but he is smart enough to know that agreeing with Obama on anything is going to cost him. In that sense I really kind of feel for some of these guys- they know that saying anything reasonable is going to hurt their chances among the tea partiers.
    Yeah, and I am soooo sick of politicians pandering to who they think will elect them. If they just state what they really think, maybe they'd get more heartfelt votes. No more buying custom bakery sheetcakes for 30 bucks on food stamps (when working people are baking their own for 4 bucks)? Hell yes you have my vote! And for gods sake, don't deal with Occupy people. If my kid actually attended a college and got himself into big debt after age 18, hey you dummy, you could have asked my advice which would have been NO. You are not owed a college education.

  14. #639
    Cyburbian kalimotxo's avatar
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    Quote Originally posted by Zoning Goddess View post
    And for gods sake, don't deal with Occupy people. If my kid actually attended a college and got himself into big debt after age 18, hey you dummy, you could have asked my advice which would have been NO. You are not owed a college education.
    No offense intended here, but if you think Occupy is a movement based on a desire for subsidized higher education, you're really missing the point.
    Process and dismissal. Shelter and location. Everybody wants somewhere.

  15. #640
    Cyburbian michaelskis's avatar
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    Quote Originally posted by Zoning Goddess View post
    Yeah, and I am soooo sick of politicians pandering to who they think will elect them. If they just state what they really think, maybe they'd get more heartfelt votes. No more buying custom bakery sheetcakes for 30 bucks on food stamps (when working people are baking their own for 4 bucks)? Hell yes you have my vote! And for gods sake, don't deal with Occupy people. If my kid actually attended a college and got himself into big debt after age 18, hey you dummy, you could have asked my advice which would have been NO. You are not owed a college education.
    I agree 100%.
    "A long habit of not thinking a thing wrong, gives it a superficial appearance of being right, and raises at first a formidable outcry in defense of custom. Time makes more converts than reason." - Thomas Paine Common Sense.

  16. #641
    Cyburbian mgk920's avatar
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    Quote Originally posted by Richmond Jake View post
    Herman Cain has a Rick Perry moment.

    http://blog.sfgate.com/nov05election...affairs/?tsp=1
    A well-known quote seems to be quite appropriate here - "Let he who is without sin cast the first stone".

    I often get tongue-tied when I have to describe things verbally.

    Mike

  17. #642
    OH....IO Hink's avatar
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    Quote Originally posted by mgk920 View post
    A well-known quote seems to be quite appropriate here - "Let he who is without sin cast the first stone".

    I often get tongue-tied when I have to describe things verbally.

    Mike
    So do I. But I am not running for President. Herman Cain is just showing again and again why he may be a businessman, blah, blah, but he isn't President materials. This should have been clear when he said Uz-becki-becki-stan-stan. The fact that he thinks it is acceptable, even as a joke, to talk about other counties with such blase, speaks worlds about how good of a leader he would be.

    Let's move on and start talking about the next candidate that is spiking... Newt.

    http://www.politico.com/blogs/bensmi...n.html?showall

    Well at least while he spikes... until people remember his past...
    Last edited by Hink; 15 Nov 2011 at 8:13 AM.
    A common mistake people make when trying to design something completely foolproof is to underestimate the ingenuity of complete fools. -Douglas Adams

  18. #643
    Cyburbian Tarf's avatar
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    Quote Originally posted by Hink View post
    Well at least while he spikes... until people remember his past...

    Who doesn't want a president that dumped his wife with cancer for another woman?

    Yet, somehow John Edwards got bad press for that
    In the beginning the Universe was created. This has made a lot of people very angry and been widely regarded as a bad move. (Douglas Adams)

  19. #644
    Cyburbian Plus JNA's avatar
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    New word - "cainwreck"
    Oddball
    Why don't you knock it off with them negative waves?
    Why don't you dig how beautiful it is out here?
    Why don't you say something righteous and hopeful for a change?
    From Kelly's Heroes (1970)


    Are you sure you're not hurt ?
    No. Just some parts wake up faster than others.
    Broke parts take a little longer, though.
    From Electric Horseman (1979)

  20. #645
    Cyburbian imaplanner's avatar
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    I got a kick out of this slideshow of Newt Gingrich looking at people condescendingly.

    http://nymag.com/daily/intel/2011/11...#photo=1x00002
    Children in the back seat can cause accidents - and vice versa.

  21. #646
    Cyburbian kalimotxo's avatar
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    Quote Originally posted by imaplanner View post
    I got a kick out of this slideshow of Newt Gingrich looking at people condescendingly.

    http://nymag.com/daily/intel/2011/11...#photo=1x00002
    The Newt spoke at my college commencement, in spite of a pretty robust protest from the student body to pick someone less... divisive. He came off as such a dick. He even shakes hands like a dick.

    I just can't fathom that nominating Newt seems like a good idea to anybody, much less such a sizable contingent of Republican voters. He's generally knowledgeable, but he has way too much baggage. He also has historically struggled with things like "facts" and maintaining a consistent position on anything. Here's a so-called conservative who has supported cap and trade and individual insurance mandates. The Rs need to just realize their dream candidate is not on stage this time around, hold their noses, and push for Romney. At least he looks and acts almost presidential.
    Process and dismissal. Shelter and location. Everybody wants somewhere.

  22. #647
    Cyburbian wahday's avatar
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    Quote Originally posted by Zoning Goddess View post
    If my kid actually attended a college and got himself into big debt after age 18, hey you dummy, you could have asked my advice which would have been NO. You are not owed a college education.
    I think its a bit more complex than that and I'm not convinced the issue is people who think they are "owed" a college degree. This is a nice article that gives a pretty good overview of the situation. Plus, I gotta figure if both Rs and Ds managed to respond as quickly as they did to some of the more problematic issues with student loans than it must be a messed up situation all around (through the College Cost Reduction Act and Student Loan Sunshine Act). They certainly can't seem to agree on anything job-related...

    http://www.newyorker.com/talk/financ...alk_surowiecki

    Some of the boom in student debt can be chalked up to demographics: in the past decade, the number of college-age Americans rose by more than three million and the proportion of eighteen-to-twenty-four-year-olds enrolled in college went from thirty-five per cent to forty-one per cent. Still, the piles of student loans are due largely to the fact that the cost of a college degree has been going up much faster than people’s incomes. And that has raised the spectre that we might be living through a “higher-education bubble,” in which Americans are irrationally borrowing money to spend more on college than it’s actually worth.
    It's a start, but it's not going to solve the problem, says Wisconsin Rep. Tom Petri (R-Fond du Lac).

    "I believe that the College Cost Reduction Act and Student Loan Sunshine Act are important first steps towards reform," says Petri. "But taken alone, [they] are merely Band-Aids on the fundamentally and structurally flawed guaranteed loan program."

    What's the fundamental flaw? The student loan system is set up to enrich lenders and their stockholders, not to serve students. And taxpayers are footing the bill.
    This is from another article.

    Student loans are the second most profitable lending area for banks after credit cards mainly because if the borrower defaults, the government agrees to make the payments. There is virtually no risk. Add to that the fact that employment among college students and recent grads is less than stellar and I can see why many students in the midst of their studies are scrambling to pay for school (which they think is "the right thing to do" to become gainfully employed). Maybe they did not plan to take on loans, but the struggle to find work leaves them in the midst of a degree with dwindling options to pay for it. I also heard a recent story on the radio about how food pantries for students in need have cropped up on campus' all over the coutnry. One school has such demand they plan to double their square footage by the end of the school year.

    We have a border right now (another sign of tight times) who is a young guy taking community college classes to try and get into the state school here. We've been talking about all of this stuff as he tries to figure out what to do so all of this is fresh on my mind. He's definitely not an irresponsible person and I appreciate his struggle - stop going to school now and try to find work (unemployment for HS grads being 15 percent) or borrow some money and finish a degree, hoping in part that things have improved by then (unemployment for a college grad is 10 percent)

    Personally, I'm glad I'm not trying to get through school right now.

    Sorry to veer off-topic. I have little to say at this point about the Republican Circus. Its hard to see anyone but Romney becoming the nominee at this point. I am not sure he is electable, but I think he has the best chance over any of the others (none of whom seem like Presidential material to me by a long shot).
    The purpose of life is a life of purpose

  23. #648
    Cyburbian boiker's avatar
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    Quote Originally posted by Zoning Goddess View post
    No more buying custom bakery sheetcakes for 30 bucks on food stamps (when working people are baking their own for 4 bucks)?
    When I used stamps you couldn't use them on prepared foods like a sheet cake, donuts, bakery bread, sandwiches, etc.
    Dude, I'm cheesing so hard right now.

  24. #649
    Cyburbian Tarf's avatar
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    Quote Originally posted by boiker View post
    When I used stamps you couldn't use them on prepared foods like a sheet cake, donuts, bakery bread, sandwiches, etc.

    Maybe it varies from state to state (or maybe things have changed since my college days), but when I used food stamps as a student, you couldn't purchase pre-prepared "hot" foods. However, you could purchase pre-prepared "cold" foods, such as sandwiches and the like. Bakery stuff would be considered "cold" since it's not really intended to be sold fresh out of the oven (not like, say, a slice of pizza).
    In the beginning the Universe was created. This has made a lot of people very angry and been widely regarded as a bad move. (Douglas Adams)

  25. #650
    moderator in moderation Suburb Repairman's avatar
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    Quote Originally posted by Tarf View post
    Maybe it varies from state to state (or maybe things have changed since my college days), but when I used food stamps as a student, you couldn't purchase pre-prepared "hot" foods. However, you could purchase pre-prepared "cold" foods, such as sandwiches and the like. Bakery stuff would be considered "cold" since it's not really intended to be sold fresh out of the oven (not like, say, a slice of pizza).
    That is a trick that Papa Murphy's Pizza has capitalized on. To my knowledge they are the only pizza place eligible to take food stamps. This is because it is sold cold & uncooked. A nice little niche they've found.

    "Oh, that is all well and good, but, voice or no voice, the people can always be brought to the bidding of the leaders. That is easy. All you have to do is tell them they are being attacked and denounce the pacifists for lack of patriotism and exposing the country to danger. It works the same way in any country."

    - Herman Göring at the Nuremburg trials (thoughts on democracy)

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