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Poll results: What do you think the outcome of tomorrow's presidential election will be?

Voters
26. You may not vote on this poll
  • Obama wins electoral and popular vote

    20 76.92%
  • Romney wins electoral and popular vote

    2 7.69%
  • Gary Johnson wins electoral and popular vote :thumb:

    0 0%
  • Obama wins electoral vote, Romney wins popular vote

    4 15.38%
  • Romney wins electoral vote, Obama wins popular vote

    0 0%
  • Obama and Romney tie in the electoral vote

    0 0%
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Thread: The First 2012 Presidential Election Thread

  1. #951
    Cyburbian Plus Zoning Goddess's avatar
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    Watching the "debate"; but it's not. They are just yapping. Nobody is debating. They never answer anything! Who was in debate club in high school where you had to develop an argument? These are not debates! Brian Williams is asking questions and it's a 10min argument against Obama or what a dickwad the other REP candidates are.

    As I understand, debates are a learned argument with research and thought development; not you f*ckwad you. There is no "argument" in debates anymore; they just say what they think but there is no measured argument which would be the hallmark of an actual debate. Am I the only one who gets this?

    As I told RJ, it's not a debate (generations of college debaters would cringe...), it's a f*cking news conference! Those guys are too stupid to debate.

  2. #952
    OH....IO Hink's avatar
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    I think it is reasonable to have a thread dedicated to the election and candidates. This has been a unique subject over the last 4 years, and I think that it stands alone pretty well.
    A common mistake people make when trying to design something completely foolproof is to underestimate the ingenuity of complete fools. -Douglas Adams

  3. #953
    Cyburbian hilldweller's avatar
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    I thought there was another debate/train wreck last night but I couldn't find it on any of the channels..

  4. #954
    Cyburbian fringe's avatar
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    The so-called debates are nothing but "infotainment" spectacles put on by media outlets so they can sell ads.

    Ever since Nader was excluded from participating, maybe in Y2K?, the platform has been overmanaged and worthless.

    Our election process is very much in danger I think, of becoming nothing more than a propaganda parade and our elections much like the faux elections in totalitarian states.

    It has long since been not about issues but about popularity, much like "American Idol", candidates are chosen for nothing in particular. The cynicism shown, especially on the Republican side, in the choices of VP candidates is a nose-thumbing at the idea of national office.

    After the Citizens United decision our process has become one vote = one dollar.

    I am not very encouraged by the way it unfolds.

  5. #955
    Cyburbian Plus Zoning Goddess's avatar
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    Mitch Daniels just said he thinks FL will vote for Newt. I may have to move. I realize most people in FL are transplants,but OMG. The collective stupidity of a state can be scary.

    MY kid keeps doing a really good Monty Python impersonation about being turned into a newt. Nightmares.

  6. #956
    Cyburbian illinoisplanner's avatar
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    Quote Originally posted by Zoning Goddess View post
    Mitch Daniels just said he thinks FL will vote for Newt. I may have to move. I realize most people in FL are transplants,but OMG. The collective stupidity of a state can be scary.

    MY kid keeps doing a really good Monty Python impersonation about being turned into a newt. Nightmares.
    But I thought all the transplants were from the North and therefore for Mitt Romney. It should scare you even more to consider how many of your fellow natives might be for Newt.

    I think the race will tighten up, and hopefully cooler heads will prevail. In this Republican primary, a week is an enternity in regards to how much can transpire.

    Also, you have to consider that there have already been a lot of early votes in FL that were cast before the SC primary, and Romney is expected to have a very sizable lead in these early votes.
    "Life's a journey, not a destination"
    -Steven Tyler

  7. #957
    Cyburbian Duke Of Dystopia's avatar
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    Quote Originally posted by illinoisplanner View post
    .......
    I think the race will tighten up, and hopefully cooler heads will prevail. In this Republican primary, a week is an enternity in regards to how much can transpire.

    Also, you have to consider that there have already been a lot of early votes in FL that were cast before the SC primary, and Romney is expected to have a very sizable lead in these early votes.
    I am not sure who is going to get the GOP nomination. The faux conservative has tax issues and a personality problem he can't explain away. I almost feel bad for Romney. I don't think he is a bad guy and I don't think he is criminal in his personal or professional life. He is DEFINITELY the most organized and capitalized in the GOP. He is also the only one who could pose a risk to a 2nd Obama presidency.

    Gingrich is the only other person in the GOP who could get the nomination. The biggest hurdle is that he is not capable of the organization necessary to win (Ooops, I missed the Virginia GOP Primary balloting)! That kind of stuff is the least of the types of issues he will face. He will verbally blow himself up at some point. For instance, his whining today that the rule limiting audience participation was unamerican and unfare to him. You could almost see the snot bubbles leaking from his nose. With name recognition in the high 90's and years long established negatives in the 60's, there will be very little tightening of the race once the general election is reached. Some members of the GOP have been reported to be greatly concearned with a Gingrich nomination due to the likely damage to down ballot races. Yeah, I am hoping for a Newt win I guess!

    Conservatives in general are once again showing how uncoordinated they are in politics. Gingrich or Santorum (The frothy mix of lube and fecal matter that is sometimes the byproduct of anal sex) are their choices. Conservative leaders show how effective they are by picking mr. frothy as their man even as his numbers crater. So the conservatives rage but are stuck with Gingrich or nothing. Its kind of nice watching them shred each other.

    Oh, and every one of those conservatives that met in Texas to argue for his frothiness, should they be a leader in a church, should cause that church to loose its tax exempt status for taking part in political action, just like the law says. They should understand, they like to say the law should be followed and all...
    I can't deliver UTOPIA, but I can create a HELL for you to LIVE in :)DoD:(

  8. #958
    Cyburbian illinoisplanner's avatar
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    Surprisingly, I actually have to agree with just about everything in your analysis, DoD. The only thing I thought was a little over-the-top and unnecessary was bringing up the prank spread about Santorum's last name. Santorum is unelectable for a lot more legitimate reasons other than the prank made about his last name.

    But, yeah, I'm worried about Mitt Romney at the moment. He's clearly not doing as well as he needs to be doing. And Republican party leaders do not want Gingrich. He doesn't stand a chance in the general, and he's too unpredictable. He's also a major liability to the party and Republicans down the ticket. I really hope Romney comes around. He needs to have an "a-ha" moment or something. I don't know what, but he needs to do something big. Refocus his message maybe. Do something to put all the concerns about him to rest. I don't know. He just needs to win Florida and lock up this nomination. Because, I agree, the other candidates are not good at all.
    "Life's a journey, not a destination"
    -Steven Tyler

  9. #959

  10. #960
    OH....IO Hink's avatar
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    So it seems the Republicans are out to get Newt today...

    www.drudgereport.com

    Headlines...
    NEWT FLASHBACK 1983: REAGAN RESPONSIBLE FOR NATIONAL 'DECAY'...
    NEWT 1986: 'The Reagan administration has failed, is failing...
    NEWT 1988: 'If Bush runs as continuation of Reaganism he will lose'...
    INSIDER: GINGRICH REPEATEDLY INSULTED REAGAN
    A common mistake people make when trying to design something completely foolproof is to underestimate the ingenuity of complete fools. -Douglas Adams

  11. #961
    Cyburbian boiker's avatar
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    Quote Originally posted by Hink View post
    So it seems the Republicans are out to get Newt today...

    www.drudgereport.com

    Headlines...
    NEWT FLASHBACK 1983: REAGAN RESPONSIBLE FOR NATIONAL 'DECAY'...
    NEWT 1986: 'The Reagan administration has failed, is failing...
    NEWT 1988: 'If Bush runs as continuation of Reaganism he will lose'...
    INSIDER: GINGRICH REPEATEDLY INSULTED REAGAN
    I'm sure this muckraking is happening on Fox News and all the radio shows. The RNC does not want him to win and they're doing everything they can to besmirch his character. That said, he's not the best candidate.
    Dude, I'm cheesing so hard right now.

  12. #962
    Cyburbian imaplanner's avatar
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    Quote Originally posted by boiker View post
    I'm sure this muckraking is happening on Fox News and all the radio shows. The RNC does not want him to win and they're doing everything they can to besmirch his character. That said, he's not the best candidate.
    I'm on the fence about who is a better candidate. Newt is an awful human being, but he is very smart and very witty and I don't think most of the elecorate is that concerned with his marital issues. Romney seems like a polished candidate but is a humorless robot who has hidden profits in IRA's and swiss bank accounts and the caymans while also not correctly reporting his financial disclosures to comply with federal election laws. I think Romney's tax and financial and income issues will sink him. newt will probably sink himself but it remains to be seen. I feel like the GOP establishment is worried that Newt will blow himself up - but they may be overlooking how badly damaged Romney will be on the tax and finance issue.
    Children in the back seat can cause accidents - and vice versa.

  13. #963
    Cyburbian Tarf's avatar
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    Quote Originally posted by imaplanner View post
    I'm on the fence about who is a better candidate. Newt is an awful human being, but he is very smart and very witty and I don't think most of the elecorate is that concerned with his marital issues. Romney seems like a polished candidate but is a humorless robot who has hidden profits in IRA's and swiss bank accounts and the caymans while also not correctly reporting his financial disclosures to comply with federal election laws. I think Romney's tax and financial and income issues will sink him. newt will probably sink himself but it remains to be seen. I feel like the GOP establishment is worried that Newt will blow himself up - but they may be overlooking how badly damaged Romney will be on the tax and finance issue.

    I tend to agree with the characterization of Romney. He's basically the Republican Al Gore, right down to being from a liberal state (as Gore was from a conservative one). As with Gore, Romney likely won't win his own state in the general....
    In the beginning the Universe was created. This has made a lot of people very angry and been widely regarded as a bad move. (Douglas Adams)

  14. #964
    Cyburbian Plus Zoning Goddess's avatar
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    mitt is going to be in our vicinity Sat. We will be avoiding at all costs.

  15. #965
    Cyburbian hilldweller's avatar
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    At one point in the debate last night they took a question from a guy who described himself as a Palestinian-American Republican, to the effect of "what's your solution to the Israel-Palestine conflict?" IIRC (I was ready to doze off at this point), Romney and Gingrich told him that his people are terrorists and Israel can do no wrong/ "rah-rah-rah" Israel. They didn't mention any efforts towards peace/reconciliation, etc. The crowd gave a loud ovation. I was kind of shocked that they in effect told this guy "go to hell", but then again there are a lot of Jewish voters in FL that need pandering

  16. #966
    Cyburbian
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    What? Didn't you know that Palestinians are just a figment of your imagination?

    It's definitely sickening that the Republican candidates are taking a more hard line stance toward the Palestinians than even the Israelis are. Israel at least acknowledges that the Palestinians actually exist. Really hard to even hope of bringing about Mideast Peace when you can't even acknowledge one side exists.

  17. #967
    Cyburbian hilldweller's avatar
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    Quote Originally posted by Blide View post
    What? Didn't you know that Palestinians are just a figment of your imagination?

    It's definitely sickening that the Republican candidates are taking a more hard line stance toward the Palestinians than even the Israelis are. Israel at least acknowledges that the Palestinians actually exist. Really hard to even hope of bringing about Mideast Peace when you can't even acknowledge one side exists.
    What really sickens me is the drum-beating for war with Iran..

  18. #968
    Cyburbian imaplanner's avatar
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    Quote Originally posted by hilldweller View post
    At one point in the debate last night they took a question from a guy who described himself as a Palestinian-American Republican, to the effect of "what's your solution to the Israel-Palestine conflict?" IIRC (I was ready to doze off at this point), Romney and Gingrich told him that his people are terrorists and Israel can do no wrong/ "rah-rah-rah" Israel. They didn't mention any efforts towards peace/reconciliation, etc. :
    As I understand it, the fact that you disagree means you are an anti-semite. I also suspect you hate America.
    Children in the back seat can cause accidents - and vice versa.

  19. #969
    Cyburbian Planit's avatar
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    Good article in the NYTimes today about Newt's congressional battles beginning in 1988 to today. He is basically the person that begun the caustic battles between the parties. Before then, debates were made, but there was a sense of civil discussions rather than blatant attacks. Newt also recorde a series of tapes for republican candidates on how to win an election and it was not based on the issues of the day. It was all based on how to use key words and phrases to scare the voters about the other side. Several key republicans are not endorsing him becuase they see him as someone who will be damaging to the party and the nation.
    "Whatever beer I'm drinking, is better than the one I'm not." DMLW
    "Budweiser sells a product they reflectively insist on calling beer." John Oliver

  20. #970
    Cyburbian Emeritus Bear Up North's avatar
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    Certainly hope for the best for Santorum's daughter, now in the hospital. But......I hope this doesn't give Candidate Santorum an uptick. This guy is downright dangerous.

    Bear
    Occupy Cyburbia!

  21. #971
    Cyburbian Plus
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    Cain endorsed Gingrich.
    Oddball
    Why don't you knock it off with them negative waves?
    Why don't you dig how beautiful it is out here?
    Why don't you say something righteous and hopeful for a change?
    From Kelly's Heroes (1970)


    Are you sure you're not hurt ?
    No. Just some parts wake up faster than others.
    Broke parts take a little longer, though.
    From Electric Horseman (1979)

  22. #972
    Cyburbian Plus
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    Quote Originally posted by WSU MUP Student View post
    John Tyler, the nation's 10th President, who was born in 1790, still has living grandchildren. Not great-grandchildren or great-great-grandchildren, but regular ole' grandchildren.
    President John Tyler’s grandson says Newt Gingrich is a 'jerk' http://www.politico.com/news/stories...#ixzz1kwoUoFRu

    What a smack down.
    Oddball
    Why don't you knock it off with them negative waves?
    Why don't you dig how beautiful it is out here?
    Why don't you say something righteous and hopeful for a change?
    From Kelly's Heroes (1970)


    Are you sure you're not hurt ?
    No. Just some parts wake up faster than others.
    Broke parts take a little longer, though.
    From Electric Horseman (1979)

  23. #973
    OH....IO Hink's avatar
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    Palin to Hannity: ‘Enough is Enough With the Lies About Gingrich’
    http://news.yahoo.com/palin-hannity-...052022563.html

    Obviously this is funny because Sarah Palin is completely irrelevant, but still gets on TV for some reason. But to me it is more funny because it seems that Hannity, Limbaugh, etc. have all decided that Newt is the only "real" candidate and the establishment is trying to stop him at all costs. It really does show the divide between those who want our country to succeed and move forward and those who make money off of division and misinformation.

    I think the republicans really do have a choice to make this year. Are they going to lose because they think Gingrich is a "real" conservative, or are they going to give themselves a chance with Romney, who is a Republican but is more central in much of his thinking? My hope is that they pick Gingrich, disenfranchise a large portion of their base and a 3rd party is created from those Romney supporters who are focused on the economy and not social discrimination.

    There is a HUGE cavern that is growing in the republican party between the "conservative" tea party upstarts and the establishment. The rift is apparent in newspapers, the debates, and now with the talking heads. I think the one thing that the tea party did that was good for the discourse in this country was begin to show those fissures and open up the ability for those who hold extreme right view to have a party that they can run on those views, and to push more moderate members away. If we are talking about more moderate views, that is a win for the country.

    With that said it seems Obama is getting more centrist in his views, and I am sure Romney will back track on all his flopping on topics once he gets to the general. It will be interesting to say the least...
    A common mistake people make when trying to design something completely foolproof is to underestimate the ingenuity of complete fools. -Douglas Adams

  24. #974
    Cyburbian Plus
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    Quote Originally posted by Hink View post
    Palin to Hannity: ‘Enough is Enough With the Lies About Gingrich’
    http://news.yahoo.com/palin-hannity-...052022563.html

    Obviously this is funny because Sarah Palin is completely irrelevant, but still gets on TV for some reason. But to me it is more funny because it seems that Hannity, Limbaugh, etc. have all decided that Newt is the only "real" candidate and the establishment is trying to stop him at all costs. It really does show the divide between those who want our country to succeed and move forward and those who make money off of division and misinformation.

    I think the republicans really do have a choice to make this year. Are they going to lose because they think Gingrich is a "real" conservative, or are they going to give themselves a chance with Romney, who is a Republican but is more central in much of his thinking? My hope is that they pick Gingrich, disenfranchise a large portion of their base and a 3rd party is created from those Romney supporters who are focused on the economy and not social discrimination.

    There is a HUGE cavern that is growing in the republican party between the "conservative" tea party upstarts and the establishment. The rift is apparent in newspapers, the debates, and now with the talking heads. I think the one thing that the tea party did that was good for the discourse in this country was begin to show those fissures and open up the ability for those who hold extreme right view to have a party that they can run on those views, and to push more moderate members away. If we are talking about more moderate views, that is a win for the country.

    With that said it seems Obama is getting more centrist in his views, and I am sure Romney will back track on all his flopping on topics once he gets to the general. It will be interesting to say the least...
    I'm convinced that the right wing media has no interest in the Republicans regaining power. They make more money as a voice of rebellion against the current power structure and having a boogeyman like Obama to rally against. Limbaugh, Hannity, Murdoch, etc want Obama to win to because that will make them more money and give them more talking points.

  25. #975
    Cyburbian zman's avatar
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    Oh God...

    Someone just said the Republican machine is moving to Colorado in preparation for the caucus next week.

    Santorum and Paul are wheels down already in the Centennial State...

    I may have to skip TV for a week.
    You get all squeezed up inside/Like the days were carved in stone/You get all wired up inside/And it's bad to be alone

    You can go out, you can take a ride/And when you get out on your own/You get all smoothed out inside/And it's good to be alone
    -Peart

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