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Poll results: What do you think the outcome of tomorrow's presidential election will be?

Voters
26. You may not vote on this poll
  • Obama wins electoral and popular vote

    20 76.92%
  • Romney wins electoral and popular vote

    2 7.69%
  • Gary Johnson wins electoral and popular vote :thumb:

    0 0%
  • Obama wins electoral vote, Romney wins popular vote

    4 15.38%
  • Romney wins electoral vote, Obama wins popular vote

    0 0%
  • Obama and Romney tie in the electoral vote

    0 0%
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Thread: The First 2012 Presidential Election Thread

  1. #76
    OH....IO Hink's avatar
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    What scares me the most is that the IDIOT (ugh) Tea Party people might actually try and vote as a block and support Sarah Palin. I think any Republican in their right mind (haha) wouldn't think twice about her for 2012, but these people who don't really know what they stand for, but know that Fox News tells it straight are going to kill the Republican party in 2012.

    If the Repub's want to win in 2012, they will moderate themselves over the next two years, not stay near these crazy tea party people who really don't understand the ramifications of what they want (NO TAXES! LESS GOVERNMENT!! FREEDOM!).

    Sarah Palin has succeeded in making her self look less qualified than she did in 2008, which I thought wasn't possible. She is now looking for ways to keep herself relevant and on people's minds, but this stick poking isn't going to work. I thought her Rush defense was laughable, but going after a cartoon comedy satire program is just hilarious. IDIOT.
    A common mistake people make when trying to design something completely foolproof is to underestimate the ingenuity of complete fools. -Douglas Adams

  2. #77
    Cyburbian Emeritus Bear Up North's avatar
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    Scenario

    Opponents of the 2nd Bush, our current President, and our current VP all enjoy pot shots at things that are really not that significant, considering the scope of their positions. Examples would include GW Bush and Joe Biden both screwing up dates and times and words or right-wing nuts continually ranting about Barack Obama's "Hussien" name or missing birth certificate. This past week some folks hit hard on Mr. Biden for a reference to the wrong century.

    BFD.

    That said, overall I think our VP is not a big vote draw when folks pull the curtain and begin to create chads.....electing our next President.

    Scenario: Because of Sarah Palin's popularity (I still think she can win, especially if the economy doesn't significantly turn around) the Obama administration quietly asks Mr. Biden to announce that he will only serve a single term. The Democratic Convention would then have some significant "interest" instead of a simple "here's our policies, coronate the king".

    In this scenario I would envision the VP candidate to be Ms. Clinton.

    Bear
    Occupy Cyburbia!

  3. #78
    moderator in moderation Suburb Repairman's avatar
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    Quote Originally posted by Bear Up North View post

    Scenario: Because of Sarah Palin's popularity (I still think she can win, especially if the economy doesn't significantly turn around) the Obama administration quietly asks Mr. Biden to announce that he will only serve a single term. The Democratic Convention would then have some significant "interest" instead of a simple "here's our policies, coronate the king".

    In this scenario I would envision the VP candidate to be Ms. Clinton.

    Bear
    While I don't agree that Palin can win, I would actually give that scenario better than 50/50 odds of happening. People's perceptions of Clinton have improved over the last year, and it would invigorate the DNC and perhaps breathe a little life into an Obama reelection campaign in a potentially negative climate to be an incumbant.

    "Oh, that is all well and good, but, voice or no voice, the people can always be brought to the bidding of the leaders. That is easy. All you have to do is tell them they are being attacked and denounce the pacifists for lack of patriotism and exposing the country to danger. It works the same way in any country."

    - Herman Göring at the Nuremburg trials (thoughts on democracy)

  4. #79
    Cyburbian mgk920's avatar
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    An interesting discussion that I just heard - several sates have adopted laws saying that if enough other states do likewise, that they will cast their EVs for whomever wins the nationwide popular vote - REGARDLESS of how their own state's voters voted.

    A few thoughts that were brought up should this happen:

    -'Flyover country' will become just that to the campaigns - all of those smaller states and markets will be completely ignored. As it stands now, things can get lively in places like North Dakota, Vermont and even here in Wisconsin - forcing the campaigns to pay attention to the Middle-Americans.

    -Can you say "recount"?

    -What if, let's say, in 2012, Sarah Palin wins 50.5% of the nationwide popular vote *BUT* BHO wins 65-70% of the popular vote in his home state of Illinois (a state that has already adopted that proposal). How likely will it really be that Illinois' heavily Democratic Electors will follow through with that and cast their ballots for Palin???



    -Oh yea, and look for a USSupreme Court challenge to that idea.

    Mike

  5. #80
    moderator in moderation Suburb Repairman's avatar
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    Hold the phone... mgk920 and I are in full agreement on something!!!

    I don't like what is being talked about with the electoral votes, precisely because of the potential for it to discount less-populated states. Also, a change like this would require an amendment to the U.S. Constitution, in my opinion.

    "Oh, that is all well and good, but, voice or no voice, the people can always be brought to the bidding of the leaders. That is easy. All you have to do is tell them they are being attacked and denounce the pacifists for lack of patriotism and exposing the country to danger. It works the same way in any country."

    - Herman Göring at the Nuremburg trials (thoughts on democracy)

  6. #81
    Cyburbian imaplanner's avatar
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    Quote Originally posted by Hink_Planner View post
    What scares me the most is that the IDIOT (ugh) Tea Party people might actually try and vote as a block and support Sarah Palin. I think any Republican in their right mind (haha) wouldn't think twice about her for 2012, but these people who don't really know what they stand for, but know that Fox News tells it straight are going to kill the Republican party in 2012.
    .
    These people are so stupid and/or hate filled they don't realize that Obama has already cut their taxes more than Bush ever did.
    Children in the back seat can cause accidents - and vice versa.

  7. #82
    Cyburbian Joe Iliff's avatar
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    Quote Originally posted by mgk920 View post
    An interesting discussion that I just heard - several sates have adopted laws saying that if enough other states do likewise, that they will cast their EVs for whomever wins the nationwide popular vote - REGARDLESS of how their own state's voters voted.

    Mike
    I know that some states have laws that invalidate the votes of "faithless electors", those who vote other than they have pladged to do so when nominated to serve as electors. The state law might require the electors to vote for the winners of the national popular vote, and consider any vote cast differently as invalid. Thus far, the Supreme Court has held that states can regulate electors fairly strictly, treating them as just functionaries with no real independent power, if they want to.
    JOE ILIFF
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  8. #83

    Switching places

    Quote Originally posted by Bear Up North View post
    Opponents of the 2nd Bush, our current President, and our current VP all enjoy pot shots at things that are really not that significant, considering the scope of their positions. Examples would include GW Bush and Joe Biden both screwing up dates and times and words or right-wing nuts continually ranting about Barack Obama's "Hussien" name or missing birth certificate. This past week some folks hit hard on Mr. Biden for a reference to the wrong century.

    BFD.

    That said, overall I think our VP is not a big vote draw when folks pull the curtain and begin to create chads.....electing our next President.

    Scenario: Because of Sarah Palin's popularity (I still think she can win, especially if the economy doesn't significantly turn around) the Obama administration quietly asks Mr. Biden to announce that he will only serve a single term. The Democratic Convention would then have some significant "interest" instead of a simple "here's our policies, coronate the king".

    In this scenario I would envision the VP candidate to be Ms. Clinton.

    Bear

    The above scenario could happen, but i will give it another twist and say that Biden would step down as Vice President in favor of Ms. Clinton, but after the election he would be rewarded with the Secretary of State seat.

    Palin has to distance herself from the Tea Party nut cases for her to have a ghost of a chance of winning the presendency. The northeast, is solidly Democratic and so is the west coast, and those folks aren't particularly interested in the right-wing nuts that have inhabitied the Tea Party at this time.

    The fiscal conservatives whose ideas we should be listening to have been drowned out by radical fridge. Fiscal conservatism is not such a bad idea and the shrinking governement is also not such a bad idea ( keep us planners around).

    I'm still in the Obama corner at this time, he hasn't done anything that would make me vote for someone else.

  9. #84
    Cyburbian Emeritus Bear Up North's avatar
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    Even though this Bear still thinks Sarah Palin can win the presidency I must report that the latest polls indicate that 78% of voters do not think she has the ability to sit in the Oval Office. It has been a year since she resigned from her East Russia governorship and it seems obvious that she is doing the things that she thinks will convince voters that she has those prez abilities.

    Bear
    Occupy Cyburbia!

  10. #85
    Cyburbian vagaplanner's avatar
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    Prediction: Newt Gingrich will soon announce his candidacy and will be the next President of the United States. Deal with it liberal nut jobs.
    ...my lifestyle determines my death style!
    - Metallica

  11. #86
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    The Republican candidate is going to be Mitch Daniels. The forces are already coalescing around him.

    It will be a brutal and ugly match between the two parties in 2010 because for the first time in a very long time we will be facing two candidates with very sharply opposing ideologies and governing approaches.

    Obama may be the taller of the two, but my money is on Daniels because he will win the independents concerned about fiscal responsibility and the deficit.

  12. #87
    OH....IO Hink's avatar
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    Quote Originally posted by vagaplanner View post
    Prediction: Newt Gingrich will soon announce his candidacy and will be the next President of the United States. Deal with it liberal nut jobs.
    Not a chance in Hell Michigan. He has shown too many of his cards over the years. And anyone that goes on Sean Hannity consistently will not win.

    Quote Originally posted by PennPlanner
    The Republican candidate is going to be Mitch Daniels. The forces are already coalescing around him.

    It will be a brutal and ugly match between the two parties in 2010 because for the first time in a very long time we will be facing two candidates with very sharply opposing ideologies and governing approaches.

    Obama may be the taller of the two, but my money is on Daniels because he will win the independents concerned about fiscal responsibility and the deficit.
    I think this will be much more in line with what is going to happen. The R's will have to find someone that isn't a nut job (Palin, Newt, Paul) and is still a viable conservative. None of the big names are going to get it done. Although people don't like the D's right now, these Indies are not going to vote for a crazed person like Palin or Paul, or a crazy Ideologue like Newt. They are looking for fiscal conservatism and social moderation. I think Mitch Daniels could be a good candidate. Other than the privatization of the toll roads in Indiana, he has done a fairly decent job of fiscal issues. I think it will be the social issues that make the difference in 2012.

    The R's are not taking advantage of all the junk the D's have messed up. 2012 will be about getting rid of "names" and dealing with ideas. Just watch as none of the big named R's who are trying to build a campaign will get the nomination.
    A common mistake people make when trying to design something completely foolproof is to underestimate the ingenuity of complete fools. -Douglas Adams

  13. #88
    Cyburbian Duke Of Dystopia's avatar
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    Quote Originally posted by vagaplanner View post
    Prediction: Newt Gingrich will soon announce his candidacy and will be the next President of the United States. Deal with it liberal nut jobs.
    YOUR FUNNY!

    Divorcing a dying wife on her death bed finished that idea LONG ago!

    I personally think it will be somebody we have yet to hear about, because I can't think of a possible candidate on the GOP side that isn't to damaged to beat the DEM 2.5 years from now.

    I'm thinking they are going to run the Anti-Christ!

    Cthulhu for President!
    At least you KNOW he is evil!
    I can't deliver UTOPIA, but I can create a HELL for you to LIVE in :)DoD:(

  14. #89
    Cyburbian imaplanner's avatar
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    Quote Originally posted by Duke Of Dystopia View post
    YOUR FUNNY!

    Divorcing a dying wife on her death bed finished that idea LONG ago!
    Among a million other skeletons in his closet. Btw- what happened to Skeleton?
    Children in the back seat can cause accidents - and vice versa.

  15. #90
    Cyburbian stroskey's avatar
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    Quote Originally posted by Hink_Planner View post
    What scares me the most is that the IDIOT (ugh) Tea Party people might actually try and vote as a block and support Sarah Palin. I think any Republican in their right mind (haha) wouldn't think twice about her for 2012, but these people who don't really know what they stand for, but know that Fox News tells it straight are going to kill the Republican party in 2012.
    I don't get political because it's bad for stress levels but we had a local gentleman at a Tea Party rally that said he was not for government health care in any form yet he's on Medicare.

    I don't see this as only hypocritical of the Tea Party but a sign for the future of politics in general. Someone who is obviously conservative doesn't want government programs but receives it himself - he'll never vote to stop Medicare. For those who do want government programs, once it's there it can never be retracted. No one will vote to shoot themselves in the foot financially. That is the problem in general, it all just piles on itself until it's too big for any of us to handle.

  16. #91
    Cyburbian Plus Whose Yur Planner's avatar
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    Quote Originally posted by vagaplanner View post
    Prediction: Newt Gingrich will soon announce his candidacy and will be the next President of the United States. Deal with it liberal nut jobs.
    Actually, I would like to see Newt run. I would love to see the knots conservative Christians tie themselves into trying to justify voting for him given his history. I would also like to see how he justifies his past behavior to my fellow Christians.

    Between him and Sarah Palin, the entertainment value of the election would be pretty high. At least Sarah has tried to live out her convictions.
    When did I go from Luke Skywalker to Obi-Wan Kenobi?

  17. #92
    Cyburbian TexanOkie's avatar
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    Quote Originally posted by Whose Yur Planner View post
    Actually, I would like to see Newt run. I would love to see the knots conservative Christians tie themselves into trying to justify voting for him given his history. I would also like to see how he justifies his past behavior to my fellow Christians.

    Between him and Sarah Palin, the entertainment value of the election would be pretty high. At least Sarah has tried to live out her convictions.
    I'm sure every American liberal would love that kind of race... one that's highly entertaining, provides good fodder for future elections, yet yields no threat to the current political balance of power.

  18. #93
    Cyburbian Duke Of Dystopia's avatar
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    Quote Originally posted by TexanOkie View post
    I'm sure every American liberal would love that kind of race... one that's highly entertaining, provides good fodder for future elections, yet yields no threat to the current political balance of power.
    Any political party/position/faction would like to be sitting in that kind of seat!
    I can't deliver UTOPIA, but I can create a HELL for you to LIVE in :)DoD:(

  19. #94
    Cyburbian TexanOkie's avatar
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    Quote Originally posted by Duke Of Dystopia View post
    Any political party/position/faction would like to be sitting in that kind of seat!
    Yeah, but would it be good for the country?

    To use a sports analogy, a big rivalry game really only counts for something when both teams involved are in the mix and competitive.

  20. #95
    OH....IO Hink's avatar
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    Quote Originally posted by TexanOkie View post
    Yeah, but would it be good for the country?

    To use a sports analogy, a big rivalry game really only counts for something when both teams involved are in the mix and competitive.
    Kinda like Ohio State / Michigan lately. Pretty pointless. Honestly, the problem is with the R party. They are just in a tough place. Trying to differentiate themselves from the D's, without becoming more unreasonable then they already are. I don't really feel bad, as the Tea Party should have been cut off at the knees months ago by the R's and told that they will not accept uncivil / crazy people. They will be the party of fiscal responsibility and not of "no" or fringe right crazies. But they need the crazy right vote, so they continue on. They can't win that way.
    A common mistake people make when trying to design something completely foolproof is to underestimate the ingenuity of complete fools. -Douglas Adams

  21. #96
    Cyburbian TexanOkie's avatar
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    Quote Originally posted by Hink_Planner View post
    Kinda like Ohio State / Michigan lately. Pretty pointless. Honestly, the problem is with the R party. They are just in a tough place. Trying to differentiate themselves from the D's, without becoming more unreasonable then they already are. I don't really feel bad, as the Tea Party should have been cut off at the knees months ago by the R's and told that they will not accept uncivil / crazy people. They will be the party of fiscal responsibility and not of "no" or fringe right crazies. But they need the crazy right vote, so they continue on. They can't win that way.
    I think the problem is with both parties. R's are trying to differentiate themselves without seeming crazy, like you mentioned, and D's are trying to actually govern according to their professed principles with only modest success (in relation to their rhetoric), if even that. D's are also having trouble keeping themselves aligned in spirit, which makes their several successes somewhat muted despite Speaker Pelosi's and Senator Reid's abilities to get most of their colleagues to come around in time for votes. In the same way that R's need to find a way to be logical while still keeping the crazy right vote, D's need to find some way to either meet their rhetoric or tone it down as realities may dictate.

  22. #97
    Gunfighter Mastiff's avatar
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    I can't believe no one has mentioned the billboard yet...

    http://www.examiner.com/x-41853-Home...Iowa-billboard
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  23. #98
    Cyburbian TexanOkie's avatar
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    Quote Originally posted by Mastiff View post
    I can't believe no one has mentioned the billboard yet...

    http://www.examiner.com/x-41853-Home...Iowa-billboard
    They got it backwards. Obama isn't a democratic socialist. He's a social democrat. That's like a gradual-pace, one-step-below philosophy on the evolution towards a socialist society - it still relies on a capitalist economy...

  24. #99
    OH....IO Hink's avatar
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    Quote Originally posted by TexanOkie View post
    I think the problem is with both parties. R's are trying to differentiate themselves without seeming crazy, like you mentioned, and D's are trying to actually govern according to their professed principles with only modest success (in relation to their rhetoric), if even that. D's are also having trouble keeping themselves aligned in spirit, which makes their several successes somewhat muted despite Speaker Pelosi's and Senator Reid's abilities to get most of their colleagues to come around in time for votes. In the same way that R's need to find a way to be logical while still keeping the crazy right vote, D's need to find some way to either meet their rhetoric or tone it down as realities may dictate.
    I agree with you completely. I am not saying that the D's don't have a ton of junk to fix, I was just commenting on the R's. The D's could screw up a one car parade.
    A common mistake people make when trying to design something completely foolproof is to underestimate the ingenuity of complete fools. -Douglas Adams

  25. #100
    Gunfighter Mastiff's avatar
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    Quote Originally posted by TexanOkie View post
    They got it backwards. Obama isn't a democratic socialist. He's a social democrat. That's like a gradual-pace, one-step-below philosophy on the evolution towards a socialist society - it still relies on a capitalist economy...
    The tea baggers got something backward?! No way...

    Here is the problem the GOP has to understand. People like me, who would have had a tough time deciding between a McCain / AnyonewithatripledigitIQ ticket and Obama / Bideneventhoughhecanbeadork ticket are getting very weary of this nonsense. If you come with:
    • He's Hitler / Stalin / Antichrist
    • Where's the birth certificate
    • He caused the oil spill
    • He's Muslim

    ...tell it to someone else. Want to convince me? Let's discuss his inability to get real health care reform in place with a super majority in Congress. We can talk about still being in the middle east. How about some real financial reform... or campaign finance changes... or lobbying congress? Or, to put it in more simple terms, if you let those nut bags be in your party, I will not be joining you.
    -----------------------------------------------------------------
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    I'm standing right here Mr. Destiny
    If you want to talk well then I'll relate
    If you don't so what cause you don't scare me

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