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Poll results: What do you think the outcome of tomorrow's presidential election will be?

Voters
26. You may not vote on this poll
  • Obama wins electoral and popular vote

    20 76.92%
  • Romney wins electoral and popular vote

    2 7.69%
  • Gary Johnson wins electoral and popular vote :thumb:

    0 0%
  • Obama wins electoral vote, Romney wins popular vote

    4 15.38%
  • Romney wins electoral vote, Obama wins popular vote

    0 0%
  • Obama and Romney tie in the electoral vote

    0 0%
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Thread: The First 2012 Presidential Election Thread

  1. #1151
    Cyburbian WSU MUP Student's avatar
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    I wonder what Romney's dad would have to say about his refusal to release more of his records:

    How George Romney set the bar for disclosure
    "Where free unions and collective bargaining are forbidden, freedom is lost." - 1980 Republican presidential candidate Ronald Reagan

  2. #1152
    Cyburbian mgk920's avatar
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    Quote Originally posted by Blide View post
    One thing that has amazed me over the last week or so is how poorly Romney's campaign has handled the Bain issue. Romney is asking people to take him at his word as Obama's campaign pulls out legitimate documentation that conflicts. Then having his chief campaign adviser use words like "retroactively retired" or refusing to release his tax returns just makes matters worse.

    I honestly don't think Bain or Romney's taxes are a big deal but it kind of makes you wonder with how evasive he has been regarding them. Seems like both of these issues would be easy to put to rest but he's not doing it for some reason.
    OTOH, I'm still wondering what BHO is hiding in His continuing refusal to release His University transcripts and major theses.

    "I'll show you mine if you'll show me yours."

    And this thing about visiting the golf course over 100 times during this current severe recession....

    Mike

  3. #1153
    Cyburbian btrage's avatar
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    Quote Originally posted by mgk920 View post
    OTOH, I'm still wondering what BHO is hiding in His continuing refusal to release His University transcripts and major theses.

    "I'll show you mine if you'll show me yours."

    And this thing about visiting the golf course over 100 times during this current severe recession....

    Mike
    I'm wondering what a candidate's university transcripts have anything to do with a candidacy?

    Tax returns, OTOH, can go a long way to dispell people's notion of Romney as a rich, stuck-up, brat.
    "I'm very important. I have many leather-bound books and my apartment smells of rich mahogany"

  4. #1154
    OH....IO Hink's avatar
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    Quote Originally posted by mgk920 View post
    And this thing about visiting the golf course over 100 times during this current severe recession....

    Mike
    You mean supporting small businesses?
    A common mistake people make when trying to design something completely foolproof is to underestimate the ingenuity of complete fools. -Douglas Adams

  5. #1155
    Cyburbian
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    Quote Originally posted by mgk920 View post
    OTOH, I'm still wondering what BHO is hiding in His continuing refusal to release His University transcripts and major theses.
    Never understood what the issue is here. He graduated magna cum laude and was president of the Harvard Law Review. What more do you need to know about his education?

  6. #1156
    Cyburbian imaplanner's avatar
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    Quote Originally posted by Blide View post
    One thing that has amazed me over the last week or so is how poorly Romney's campaign has handled the Bain issue. Romney is asking people to take him at his word as Obama's campaign pulls out legitimate documentation that conflicts. Then having his chief campaign adviser use words like "retroactively retired" or refusing to release his tax returns just makes matters worse.

    I honestly don't think Bain or Romney's taxes are a big deal but it kind of makes you wonder with how evasive he has been regarding them. Seems like both of these issues would be easy to put to rest but he's not doing it for some reason.
    Romney boxed himself into a corner. He very clearly perjured himself by testifying under oath that he continued to work for bain entities and served as the CEO and managing partner, yet filed presidential disclosure forms saying he had no relationship to Bain or Bain entities in any way after 1999. His tax returns will certainly show which of those statements was false, and his 2002 testimony and SEC documents are past the statute of limitations for prosecution. His 2011 Presiedntial FEC disclosure documents are not. If his tax returns show he was continuing employment there (which seems obvious) than he will likely be prosecuted.

    I honestly believe we will see him dropping out. It's pretty clear he perjured himself.
    Children in the back seat can cause accidents - and vice versa.

  7. #1157
    Cyburbian hilldweller's avatar
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    Quote Originally posted by Blide View post
    Never understood what the issue is here. He graduated magna cum laude and was president of the Harvard Law Review. What more do you need to know about his education?
    That's all you really need to know. Unless you want to mine his records for things to support some ludicrious conspiracy theory, that is.

  8. #1158
    Gunfighter Mastiff's avatar
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    Quote Originally posted by imaplanner View post
    I honestly believe we will see him dropping out. It's pretty clear he perjured himself.

    And I just read Ron Paul with be at the RNC convention and available for nomination!
    -----------------------------------------------------------------
    C'mon and get me you twist of fate
    I'm standing right here Mr. Destiny
    If you want to talk well then I'll relate
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  9. #1159
    Cyburbian michaelskis's avatar
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    I am wondering why the White House will not release the fast and furious information that the President is using executive privilege to protect.
    Not my monkey, not my circus. - Old Polish Proverb

  10. #1160
    Cyburbian Plus Whose Yur Planner's avatar
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    Quote Originally posted by michaelskis View post
    I am wondering why the White House will not release the fast and furious information that the President is using executive privilege to protect.
    I wonder why this is only an issue to politicians trying to score political points and paranoid conspiracy theorist?
    When did I go from Luke Skywalker to Obi-Wan Kenobi?

  11. #1161
    Cyburbian michaelskis's avatar
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    Quote Originally posted by Whose Yur Planner View post
    I wonder why this is only an issue to politicians trying to score political points and paranoid conspiracy theorist?


    If what he said is true, then there is a major issue that they are trying to hide.
    Not my monkey, not my circus. - Old Polish Proverb

  12. #1162
    Cyburbian mgk920's avatar
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    Quote Originally posted by Whose Yur Planner View post
    I wonder why this is only an issue to politicians trying to score political points and paranoid conspiracy theorist?
    Ditto the other way.

    Mike

  13. #1163
    OH....IO Hink's avatar
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    This guy gets voted in to his position.... talk about wasted government money and time.

    http://news.yahoo.com/ariz-sheriff-s...072751943.html

    Mike Zullo, the posse's chief investigator, said numeric codes on certain parts of the birth certificate indicate that those parts weren't filled out, yet those sections asking for the race of Obama's father and his field of work or study were completed.
    I think anytime anyone complains about Romney being asked to produce additional information about his life, finances or anything else, should first look at what the R's are asking of Obama to produce to try and "prove" something.

    It is a game for both sides. Personally, I think transparency is extremely important. I don't think that you should be able to hide your life if you want to be president. It is unfortunate, but that is what you signed up for. You should give the last 10 years of finances, all of your transcripts and educational background, and prove citizenship (once). These things should be simple exercises meant to be transparent. I think what we are doing now is trying to find needles in haystacks that don't exist.

    I am more worried about Romney now because he is so adamantly protecting his finances. If he has nothing to hide, he really should be showing what income he was making from his Bain years. That is pertinent to the arguments he is making to become President.

    Obama really should (if he hasn't already) provide the information pertaining to his graduate school record. I am not sure that it is nearly as important as Romney's finances, but it should be in the public record. If Obama was touting graduate degree reform, or how he was not part of Harvard Law Review when some incendiary writing came out, it would be more important to me. I don't really see what it matters or how it is related to his ability to be president or give his message.
    A common mistake people make when trying to design something completely foolproof is to underestimate the ingenuity of complete fools. -Douglas Adams

  14. #1164
    Cyburbian michaelskis's avatar
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    Bad Form

    I think it is sad that politics is such a game. A local democratic representative changed his party affiliation to republican just moments before the deadline to get your name on the ballot. So now, he is running unopposed on the ballot and there is little doubt in my mind that some of the top level republicans in the state worked on this plan with him before he switched. He has always been more of a moderate so the switch was not a judge shock, but the timing was just bad form. Personally, I think this was a lousy thing to do and while the prosicuter has noted that he did not do anything illegal, they agree that it was a poor political decision.

    Here is a link from a local news station.
    Not my monkey, not my circus. - Old Polish Proverb

  15. #1165
    Cyburbian Plus Whose Yur Planner's avatar
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    Quote Originally posted by mgk920 View post
    Ditto the other way.

    Mike
    Personally I don't like it when either side comes up with these whack-a-doodle theories. Most legit conspiracies get exposed-Watergate, Iran-Contra, etc. The crazy ones just muddy the waters and get used for political ends.
    When did I go from Luke Skywalker to Obi-Wan Kenobi?

  16. #1166
    Cyburbian btrage's avatar
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    Quote Originally posted by imaplanner View post
    Romney boxed himself into a corner. He very clearly perjured himself by testifying under oath that he continued to work for bain entities and served as the CEO and managing partner, yet filed presidential disclosure forms saying he had no relationship to Bain or Bain entities in any way after 1999. His tax returns will certainly show which of those statements was false, and his 2002 testimony and SEC documents are past the statute of limitations for prosecution. His 2011 Presiedntial FEC disclosure documents are not. If his tax returns show he was continuing employment there (which seems obvious) than he will likely be prosecuted.

    I honestly believe we will see him dropping out. It's pretty clear he perjured himself.
    The pressure for Ronmney to release additional tax returns is only going to increase. I would be concerned if I was the GOP.

    On the other side of the aisle, the slowing down of the economic recovery is a serious issue for the President.

    We'll see what issue trumps the other. Will Romney's camp be able to use the economy as a diversion away from his tax returns/private-sector past? I personally think it's going to be tough for them to do, unless the economy really goes into the tank.
    "I'm very important. I have many leather-bound books and my apartment smells of rich mahogany"

  17. #1167
    Gunfighter Mastiff's avatar
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    Wal-Mart killed more small businesses than the government ever could.
    -----------------------------------------------------------------
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    If you want to talk well then I'll relate
    If you don't so what cause you don't scare me

  18. #1168
    Cyburbian michaelskis's avatar
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    Quote Originally posted by Mastiff View post
    Wal-Mart killed more small businesses than the government ever could.
    Mastiff, on that I agree 100%, yet I think that we still both shop there on occasion.

    The keys to their rise to become what they are is actually quite simple. Sam Walton, who had already proven himself with the turn around of a failing Ben Franklin store, took a step or two out of the distribution process, solicited customer feed back, and hired people people like David Glass who was already extremely successful retailer even before he joined the company in 1976. In fact, Sam Walton invited glass to his first store on opening day and it was a disaster and glass told him so. Sam being a bright business man hired Glass.

    If society did not what quick, easy, and cheep, we would not have Wal Mart or fast food.
    Not my monkey, not my circus. - Old Polish Proverb

  19. #1169
    OH....IO Hink's avatar
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    Moderator note:
    I cut out the tax abatement discussion and put it here.


    Carry on.
    A common mistake people make when trying to design something completely foolproof is to underestimate the ingenuity of complete fools. -Douglas Adams

  20. #1170
    Gunfighter Mastiff's avatar
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    Quote Originally posted by michaelskis View post
    Mastiff, on that I agree 100%, yet I think that we still both shop there on occasion.

    The keys to their rise to become what they are is actually quite simple. Sam Walton, who had already proven himself with the turn around of a failing Ben Franklin store, took a step or two out of the distribution process, solicited customer feed back, and hired people people like David Glass who was already extremely successful retailer even before he joined the company in 1976. In fact, Sam Walton invited glass to his first store on opening day and it was a disaster and glass told him so. Sam being a bright business man hired Glass.

    If society did not what quick, easy, and cheep, we would not have Wal Mart or fast food.
    Actually, I avoid it as much as I can. If anything else is open, I go there. Up in the PacNW we have Bi-Mart, which is employee owned. We also go to discount food stores, and local groceries. Have I gone and will I at times? Yes. But I hate it, so I usually cause a ruckus.

    Sam was a nice guy, actually. I met him once. But he was a ruthless businessman. Word got around fast that you never, ever, sold all of your product to Wal-Mart, or you'd lose your facility soon after. The story behind how Ol' Roy dog food became a Wal-Mart brand is very interesting.
    -----------------------------------------------------------------
    C'mon and get me you twist of fate
    I'm standing right here Mr. Destiny
    If you want to talk well then I'll relate
    If you don't so what cause you don't scare me

  21. #1171
    OH....IO Hink's avatar
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    Paul Ryan for Romney...... Liability or genius move?

    I think it is a Palin move.... Trying to make a big move.... Which will most likely backfire.
    A common mistake people make when trying to design something completely foolproof is to underestimate the ingenuity of complete fools. -Douglas Adams

  22. #1172
    Cyburbian Tide's avatar
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    Quote Originally posted by Hink View post
    Paul Ryan for Romney...... Liability or genius move?

    I think it is a Palin move.... Trying to make a big move.... Which will most likely backfire.
    Palin was a 1 term gov in Alaska when she was chosen. Ryan is a 7 term house member and head of the House Budget Committee, hardly comparable in terms of experience. Had Romney chosen Christy (Gov-NJ) I would be able to agree with you. I think this is a great pick since economy will be the deciding vote in Nov.
    @GigCityPlanner

  23. #1173
    NIMBY asshatterer Plus Richmond Jake's avatar
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    Has the House of Representatives been a hot bed of successful national candidates? Last I remember was Gerald Ford. Oh, wait. Never mind.
    RJ is the KING of . The One

  24. #1174
    OH....IO Hink's avatar
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    Quote Originally posted by Tide View post
    Palin was a 1 term gov in Alaska when she was chosen. Ryan is a 7 term house member and head of the House Budget Committee, hardly comparable in terms of experience. Had Romney chosen Christy (Gov-NJ) I would be able to agree with you. I think this is a great pick since economy will be the deciding vote in Nov.
    My point was picking someone that is controversial instead of someone more "mainstream". He is much more experienced, but he is probably more controversial. His views on entitlements ( although I agree with many) are not going to win him many seniors or independents unless they already lean conservative. Does it solidify his base? Yep. Does it widen his appeal? I don't see that.
    A common mistake people make when trying to design something completely foolproof is to underestimate the ingenuity of complete fools. -Douglas Adams

  25. #1175
    Cyburbian ColoGI's avatar
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    Quote Originally posted by Hink View post
    Paul Ryan for Romney...... Liability or genius move?

    I think it is a Palin move.... Trying to make a big move.... Which will most likely backfire.
    If it was a good choice and genius move, the Noise Machine and the compliant media would have been covering the story on a Monday. Friday night?!?!? They got nothin' but a media man-crush. GOP can't trot out anyone of quality for this election, so we are stuck with this mess. :o\
    -------
    Give a man a gun, and he can rob a bank. Give a man a bank, and he can rob the world.

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