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Poll results: What do you think the outcome of tomorrow's presidential election will be?

Voters
26. You may not vote on this poll
  • Obama wins electoral and popular vote

    20 76.92%
  • Romney wins electoral and popular vote

    2 7.69%
  • Gary Johnson wins electoral and popular vote :thumb:

    0 0%
  • Obama wins electoral vote, Romney wins popular vote

    4 15.38%
  • Romney wins electoral vote, Obama wins popular vote

    0 0%
  • Obama and Romney tie in the electoral vote

    0 0%
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Thread: The First 2012 Presidential Election Thread

  1. #1226
    Cyburbian
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    Quote Originally posted by michaelskis View post
    That is the point! I want someone in office who is more focused on doing the right thing and less focused on getting reelected. I hate to say it, but it is likely that that person will end up being a one term president.
    I don't disagree with your sentiment but in this case, the "right thing" would likely hurt far more than it would help. You'd have to cut the budget by over a third on day one to even hope to get our national debt to stop growing. This means millions of people would lose their jobs and the social safety net would be in taters. The collateral damage from this could set back our economy for years.

    Debt has to be handled as a long term issue otherwise you risk harming the economy. It also needs to dealt with in a balanced fashion so the burden is felt by all. It shouldn't fall on the backs of just the wealthy or the poor to deal with the consequences of this mess.

  2. #1227
    Cyburbian michaelskis's avatar
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    Quote Originally posted by Blide View post
    ....
    Debt has to be handled as a long term issue otherwise you risk harming the economy. It also needs to dealt with in a balanced fashion so the burden is felt by all. It shouldn't fall on the backs of just the wealthy or the poor to deal with the consequences of this mess.
    I agree. But let me ask you, has the current president made things better or worse when it comes national debt, deficit, and the economy. More so, most of the plans that have come out by the Democrats has been to mainly increase taxes on the wealthy. The republicans plan was to cut programs that some say enable the lower income or would restructure programs that are failing. By nature, I don't think that people like change and that is what needs to occur.

    Don't get me wrong, I did not like the Ryan plan either, but even President Obama was not in support of the Simpson Bowels plan. Both plans did not do what really needed to happen and would result in more problems than good.

    As for Romney, it is no secret that I don't think he will be a great president, but he at least has willingness to put the breaks on this runaway train. Obama things that if he speeds it up, we can outrun our issues and spend our way out of debt.
    Invest in the things today, that provide the returns tomorrow.

  3. #1228
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    I'm honestly at the point where I'd prefer the status quo to be maintained then have some partisan austerity plan be pushed through.

    I believe Obama is better suited to handle the debt issue as a second term president than Romney would be. I just don't expect you'll hear any of Obama's plans beyond his populous "tax the wealthy" approach till after the election. I think we're much more likely to get a balanced approach from someone who isn't worried about reelection and who's associated with a political party that isn't afraid to raise taxes.

  4. #1229
    moderator in moderation Suburb Repairman's avatar
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    Quote Originally posted by Blide View post
    I think we're much more likely to get a balanced approach from someone who isn't worried about reelection and who's associated with a political party that isn't afraid to raise taxes.
    While most of my reasons for voting Obama this year have to do with discomfort with the Republican Party and Romney in particular, this is one of the positive reasons Obama will get my vote. If I could wish for any Constitutional Amendment, it would be to transition the Presidency to a single 6-year term rather than two 4-year terms.

    "Oh, that is all well and good, but, voice or no voice, the people can always be brought to the bidding of the leaders. That is easy. All you have to do is tell them they are being attacked and denounce the pacifists for lack of patriotism and exposing the country to danger. It works the same way in any country."

    - Herman Göring at the Nuremburg trials (thoughts on democracy)

  5. #1230
    Cyburbian Planit's avatar
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    Quote Originally posted by Suburb Repairman View post
    While most of my reasons for voting Obama this year have to do with discomfort with the Republican Party and Romney in particular, this is one of the positive reasons Obama will get my vote. If I could wish for any Constitutional Amendment, it would be to transition the Presidency to a single 6-year term rather than two 4-year terms.
    Both houses need term limits!
    "Whatever beer I'm drinking, is better than the one I'm not." DMLW
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  6. #1231
    Gunfighter Mastiff's avatar
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    Go back and read this. Then just imagine if we had elected him and followed his plans.

    http://www.nytimes.com/1992/07/21/us...ted=all&src=pm

    Quote Originally posted by Suburb Repairman View post
    While most of my reasons for voting Obama this year have to do with discomfort with the Republican Party and Romney in particular, this is one of the positive reasons Obama will get my vote. If I could wish for any Constitutional Amendment, it would be to transition the Presidency to a single 6-year term rather than two 4-year terms.
    Good one. But I think I'd go with enacting a law that makes the receipt of gifts in any form from lobbyist an act of treason with an enormous prison term. Campaign finance would be next.
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  7. #1232
    Cyburbian
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    On top of what was mentioned, I think House members need 3 year terms where only a third of the House is up for vote at any given time not unlike the Senate. Right now Congressmen are constantly in campaign mode, so they care more about posturing then actually accomplishing anything.

  8. #1233
    Cyburbian wahday's avatar
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    Quote Originally posted by michaelskis View post
    I agree. But let me ask you, has the current president made things better or worse when it comes national debt, deficit, and the economy.
    And this is the big question, isn’t it? But it’s a terribly complex and nuanced one. First off, the entire globe is in a massive recession with a terribly large amount of economic uncertainty not only at home, but abroad, and that impacts us as well. Any president has limitations on what they can do about these external forces (although it seems Obama has been working hard behind the scenes with respect to Europe – because if Europe falls, we will surely follow). Secondly, the question really is how are we doing given the mess we are in – the cause and impacts of which may be largely out of our control. Ancillary to this is how much worse might things be if we had not taken certain actions. And this is the biggest one for a sitting president because, ultimately, we will never know. Personally, I believe things could be so so much worse if we hadn’t done what we did. But that’s a hard one to sell to anyone and is at the heart of what Obama is up against.

    Many on the right seem to be arguing that the national economy should operate like a household economy and be able to balance its books every year. But I think this is both unrealistic when speaking of the national scale and also an inaccurate view of households. If the government never extended itself and took on debt that it knew/hoped would pay out over the long run, we would not have the military we have, or our infrastructure, or so many other important facets of our society. Similarly, households carry debt from one year to the next all the time. That’s what a mortgage is, or student loans, or credit card debt. I do not think the current administration is spending wildly, has an irresponsible view of “spending our way out of debt” or any of those Republican talking points. I am comfortable with the current course, given the state of affairs we find ourselves in. Make no mistake, these are extraordinary times and to a very large extent, much of our population has been shielded from the worst of it. I am not saying people aren’t suffering, but I do believe they would be suffering a lot more if we hadn’t taken certain key actions.

    IMHO, it is entirely unfair to say that the problems we are experiencing today are the direct result of the president’s actions. The groundwork was laid for this disaster long before him and its effects will most certainly linger after he is out office, even if he is reelected. Its really that bad, and it really needs to play out over that long a time. It seems a bit childish and unrealistic to expect someone could rectify an unfolding global economic collapse singlehandedly in 4 years.
    The purpose of life is a life of purpose

  9. #1234
    Cyburbian ColoGI's avatar
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    Quote Originally posted by Blide View post
    Right now Congressmen are constantly in campaign mode, so they care more about posturing then actually accomplishing anything.
    Truly, really, actually fix campaign finance laws and cap total spending on elections and all this goes away.

    Do that, and they will have nothing better to do than what we hired them for, and less need to enact laws favoring their large donors.
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  10. #1235
    Cyburbian michaelskis's avatar
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    Quote Originally posted by Mastiff View post
    Go back and read this. Then just imagine if we had elected him and followed his plans.

    http://www.nytimes.com/1992/07/21/us...ted=all&src=pm



    Good one. But I think I'd go with enacting a law that makes the receipt of gifts in any form from lobbyist an act of treason with an enormous prison term. Campaign finance would be next.
    Interesting article. Makes me wish we had elected him AND he was able to implement most of what it talks about.

    Overall, I think one thing that most of us in here can agree on is that parts of the system are broken, including the lobby effort. I would encourage everyone in here to start with that. Contact your reps and seniors and demand it stop.
    Invest in the things today, that provide the returns tomorrow.

  11. #1236
    OH....IO Hink's avatar
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    It seems all of the sudden Newsweek is claiming the Ferguson article is Opinion... funny how that works...


    As for why the GOP is still in the stone age - http://www.politico.com/news/stories...945.html?hp=l4

    TAMPA, Fla. — Even as Mitt Romney sought to quash the furor surrounding Todd Akin’s “legitimate” rape comments, the Republican platform committee here approved an abortion plank that includes no exemptions for rape, incest or even to save the life of the mother.
    If the GOP could just remove the religious right from their voter roles and force them into a separate party, they would have a MUCH greater chance of winning elections in New York, California, and any other semi blue state. Hell, they would have a chance with independents, fiscal conservatives, or libertarians, who are tired of religion being mixed with politics.

    I know many people here in Ohio who would vote for the Mitt Romney from Massachusetts. A businessman who is flexible and willing to negotiate good deals for his state. A fiscally responsible, and socially moderate politician who doesn't want to define marriage to stop people from loving each other, or to determine for a woman what she can and cannot do with her body. That Mitt Romney is acceptable. The porous Mitt Romney who panders to the tea party and religious right is not acceptable. The same could be said for Paul Ryan. His ideas about entitlements are refreshing. They might not all be reasonable, but they are at least beginning a dialog about personal responsibility and the ability of government paying for these services. His hardline stance on no tax increases and stone age social policies make it MUCH more difficult to back such a candidate.

    You want to win Gen Y GOP? Get rid of the aging religious right and have your platform reflect the social views of the United States today. That way you can focus on the difference in how you would run government. Not how you would run other peoples lives.
    A common mistake people make when trying to design something completely foolproof is to underestimate the ingenuity of complete fools. -Douglas Adams

  12. #1237
    Cyburbian hilldweller's avatar
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    ^I say let them (GOP) keep digging their own grave...

  13. #1238
    Cyburbian WSU MUP Student's avatar
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    Quote Originally posted by Hink View post
    It seems all of the sudden Newsweek is claiming the Ferguson article is Opinion... funny how that works...


    As for why the GOP is still in the stone age - http://www.politico.com/news/stories...945.html?hp=l4
    It's not that the GOP is in the stone age, they are actively regressing on every social issue out there.

    Interesting fact - Barry Goldwater's first wife founded the first women's clinic in Phoenix and helped it later become a local member of Planned Parenthood.
    "Where free unions and collective bargaining are forbidden, freedom is lost." - 1980 Republican presidential candidate Ronald Reagan

  14. #1239
    Cyburbian Planit's avatar
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    Quote Originally posted by WSU MUP Student View post
    It's not that the GOP is in the stone age, they are actively regressing on every social issue out there.

    Interesting fact - Barry Goldwater's first wife founded the first women's clinic in Phoenix and helped it later become a local member of Planned Parenthood.
    That's a great little tidbit of information

    Look Aiken just told the truth about what the anti-abortion bill said that he and VP prospect Paul Ryan cosponsored. He got kicked in the teeth, but all the other "supporters" of the bill just talk around the issue.
    "Whatever beer I'm drinking, is better than the one I'm not." DMLW
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  15. #1240
    Cyburbian
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    I honestly think the GOP embracing social issues is the only thing keeping them a viable party at this point. When people care more about abortion than any other issue, they're probably overlooking the fact they're voting against their own interests on a host of other issues.

  16. #1241
    Cyburbian michaelskis's avatar
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    Quote Originally posted by Planit View post
    That's a great little tidbit of information

    Look Aiken just told the truth about what the anti-abortion bill said that he and VP prospect Paul Ryan cosponsored. He got kicked in the teeth, but all the other "supporters" of the bill just talk around the issue.
    Interesting... I can't find anything about his comment (that a woman's body can prevent pregancy...) in the bill. LINK TO BILL What the bill does says is that no tax payer dollars will be used for abortions in most cases.

    If you read the full bill, you will find that he did not tell the truth, he told his personal, and dislusional theory.
    Invest in the things today, that provide the returns tomorrow.

  17. #1242
    Cyburbian
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    Quote Originally posted by michaelskis View post
    Interesting... I can't find anything about his comment (that a woman's body can prevent pregancy...) in the bill. LINK TO BILL What the bill does says is that no tax payer dollars will be used for abortions in most cases.
    I think you're misunderstanding. It's not Akin's misinformed views of the female body that are the issue here. The issue is that many in the Republican party want ban abortion under any circumstance. They don't care whether rape or incest are involved, they don't even care if the mother's life is in danger. They just want abortion outlawed, period, end of conversation.

    Romney believes there should be exceptions on abortion but the recently released GOP platform disagrees with that stance.

  18. #1243
    Cyburbian WSU MUP Student's avatar
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    Quote Originally posted by Blide View post
    I think you're misunderstanding. It's not Akin's misinformed views of the female body that are the issue here..
    I don't disagree that abortion is one of the issues regarding Akin, but I think that his misinformed views of the female body and beliefs in junk science are absolutely an issue. This is right up there with (or even beyond) the predominately male legislatures in states requiring trans-vaginal ultra sounds or suicide counseling before a woman has an abortion even though there is no reliable proof that either are relevant for the situation.

    It's stuff like this that paint the GOP as the party of science denial.
    "Where free unions and collective bargaining are forbidden, freedom is lost." - 1980 Republican presidential candidate Ronald Reagan

  19. #1244
    Cyburbian michaelskis's avatar
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    Quote Originally posted by Blide View post
    I think you're misunderstanding. It's not Akin's misinformed views of the female body that are the issue here. The issue is that many in the Republican party want ban abortion under any circumstance. They don't care whether rape or incest are involved, they don't even care if the mother's life is in danger. They just want abortion outlawed, period, end of conversation.
    Ahhh... the post I responded to noted that Aiken told the truth about what the bill said… but it did not say anything of the sort. While it is very unpopular in here, I don't think that the murder of an unborn child is ever acceptable. I know that I will not be able to change your beleifs so I am not even going to try.


    Quote Originally posted by WSU MUP Student View post
    I don't disagree that abortion is one of the issues regarding Akin, but I think that his misinformed views of the female body and beliefs in junk science are absolutely an issue. This is right up there with (or even beyond) the predominately male legislatures in states requiring trans-vaginal ultra sounds or suicide counseling before a woman has an abortion even though there is no reliable proof that either are relevant for the situation.

    It's stuff like this that paint the GOP as the party of science denial.
    I don't know much about this guy and I agree that he is greatly mis-informed. But I don't think that this goes across the GOP as a whole. Granted they have their own set up issues and problems, but I doubt that there are any other members of the republican party that actually beleive what we said.
    Invest in the things today, that provide the returns tomorrow.

  20. #1245
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    I'll just say I don't think many on the GOP side believe 100% of what they're saying. They're just pandering and taking votes on issues they know will never pass. The danger is if you get enough people like that together, legislation will begin getting passed that most involved know is bad.

  21. #1246
    Cyburbian Planit's avatar
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    Quote Originally posted by michaelskis View post
    Ahhh... the post I responded to noted that Aiken told the truth about what the bill said… but it did not say anything of the sort. While it is very unpopular in here, I don't think that the murder of an unborn child is ever acceptable. I know that I will not be able to change your beleifs so I am not even going to try.




    I don't know much about this guy and I agree that he is greatly mis-informed. But I don't think that this goes across the GOP as a whole. Granted they have their own set up issues and problems, but I doubt that there are any other members of the republican party that actually beleive what we said.
    My point was the issue of 'no exceptions' in the bill, not the idea of what kind of rape. I said Akin told the truth because he was trying to defend the no exceptions piece of the bill by saying that legitamite rape won't get you pregant so there doesn't need to be exceptions. I stated that poorly and mskis responded how he read it - no worries here.
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  22. #1247
    Cyburbian michaelskis's avatar
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    Quote Originally posted by Planit View post
    My point was the issue of 'no exceptions' in the bill, not the idea of what kind of rape. I said Akin told the truth because he was trying to defend the no exceptions piece of the bill by saying that legitamite rape won't get you pregant so there doesn't need to be exceptions. I stated that poorly and mskis responded how he read it - no worries here.
    Ahhh.... now I understand. Akin is still and idiot for thinking that legiameite rape won't get you pregant.
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  23. #1248
    Cyburbian michaelskis's avatar
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    Let's shift gears....

    Let’s shift gears here and I think it will almost turn into a game. How long can we go with only posting positive things about the candidate of our choosing and NOT posting negative about their opponent?
    For example, I support Romney and his plan to cut the deficit. Specifically, he says will do the following:
    Cut The Deficit
    • Immediately reduce non-security discretionary spending by five percent
    • Cap federal spending below twenty percent of the economy
    • Give states responsibility for programs that they can implement more effectively
    • Consolidate agencies and align compensation of federal workers with their private-sector counterparts
    Invest in the things today, that provide the returns tomorrow.

  24. #1249
    OH....IO Hink's avatar
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    Politics aren't nice.... unfortunately.

    So to stay positive and play the game for a second...

    Obama has African Americans voting for him...
    http://www.politico.com/news/stories...15.html?hp=l10

    Wow....
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  25. #1250
    Cyburbian WSU MUP Student's avatar
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    Quote Originally posted by michaelskis View post
    Let’s shift gears here and I think it will almost turn into a game. How long can we go with only posting positive things about the candidate of our choosing and NOT posting negative about their opponent?
    For example, I support Romney and his plan to cut the deficit. Specifically, he says will do the following:
    This isn't really political, but... I don't support the Romney/Ryan ticket but Paul Ryan has motivated me to look a bit deeper into P90X as a possible way to change up my workout routine.
    "Where free unions and collective bargaining are forbidden, freedom is lost." - 1980 Republican presidential candidate Ronald Reagan

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