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Poll results: What do you think the outcome of tomorrow's presidential election will be?

Voters
26. You may not vote on this poll
  • Obama wins electoral and popular vote

    20 76.92%
  • Romney wins electoral and popular vote

    2 7.69%
  • Gary Johnson wins electoral and popular vote :thumb:

    0 0%
  • Obama wins electoral vote, Romney wins popular vote

    4 15.38%
  • Romney wins electoral vote, Obama wins popular vote

    0 0%
  • Obama and Romney tie in the electoral vote

    0 0%
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Thread: The First 2012 Presidential Election Thread

  1. #1351
    Cyburbian
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    Quote Originally posted by imaplanner View post
    But the discounting of the polls is actually somewhat insidious I think. Read some of the articles on conservative media sites about why you should discount the polls and it often has to do with accusations of oversampling minority and poor voters who voted in 2008. That these people won't be voting as much in 2012. When you consider that state GOP's have been successful in disenfranchising many poor and minorities with the voter ID requirements, there is some serious truth to the idea that the polls are oversampling people who likely won't be able to vote.
    Admittedly the states where that disenfranchisement is happening are not critical to the electoral math. Pennsylvania is the only "battleground" state where the strict ID laws have been upheld but it's so firmly blue this cycle that it won't matter.

  2. #1352
    Cyburbian imaplanner's avatar
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    Quote Originally posted by Blide View post
    Admittedly the states where that disenfranchisement is happening are not critical to the electoral math. Pennsylvania is the only "battleground" state where the strict ID laws have been upheld but it's so firmly blue this cycle that it won't matter.
    They have been throwing registered voters off the rolls in both Florida and Ohio. In Ohio the GOP initially moved to limit voting hours in urban areas while extending voting hours in suburban republican areas. http://www.colorofchange.org/press/r...-overturn-vot/ I don't know the most recent info on this though.
    Children in the back seat can cause accidents - and vice versa.

  3. #1353
    OH....IO Hink's avatar
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    http://money.cnn.com/2012/09/27/news...html?hpt=hp_t2

    I find articles like this pretty funny. I don't really think that Obama did a good enough job pushing for innovation job creation like he should of (can you say Electric Grid / Broadband TVA style...), but I don't think that it is his fault that the economy bottomed out when he took office.

    I like that people pretend like taking the number of jobs that existed the day he took office and the number today is the calculation we should be judging him on. Well since he didn't exactly get any policy in place on day 1, it is somewhat unfair to use that as a baseline.

    As with everything in Washington though creative counting works in both sides favor. The numbers I imagine will get even better by next month, as Obama's team will "find" jobs that weren't shown prior...

    It is a game. To use these metrics as a reason to give either guy the job is pretty laughable.
    A common mistake people make when trying to design something completely foolproof is to underestimate the ingenuity of complete fools. -Douglas Adams

  4. #1354
    Cyburbian
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    Quote Originally posted by imaplanner View post
    They have been throwing registered voters off the rolls in both Florida and Ohio. In Ohio the GOP initially moved to limit voting hours in urban areas while extending voting hours in suburban republican areas. http://www.colorofchange.org/press/r...-overturn-vot/ I don't know the most recent info on this though.
    Read an interesting article today that indicated that voter ID laws could backfire on Republicans this year because it's energizing the Democrat's get out to vote effort.

  5. #1355
    Cyburbian michaelskis's avatar
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    Do you think that the debates will make much of a difference? Personally, I think that is Romney's only shot at this point. I think he has to come out on the offensive if he stands a snowballs chance of winning this thing. But even then, he needs to think like a boxer. Jab at Obama followed with reason for the people to elect him. Hook to Obama, followed with a detailed economic plan.

    For the life of me, I cannot see why people would continue to support Obama, but there are so many of them, that it does not look good for Romney.

    I personally do not see what the issue is regarding voter ID laws. Almost anyone can get an ID so what is the big deal?
    Not my monkey, not my circus. - Old Polish Proverb

  6. #1356
    Cyburbian michaelskis's avatar
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    Is America Better Off Now than On January 20th 2009

    Ahhhh... I deleted my question...

    Overall, it is a poll on do you think that America, as a whole, is better since Obama took office and why do you think that.


    Moderator note:
    Maister: sounds like 2012 election thread by any other name. Merged



    Thanks. I did not now now to post a poll the existing thread.
    Last edited by michaelskis; 01 Oct 2012 at 9:54 AM.
    Not my monkey, not my circus. - Old Polish Proverb

  7. #1357
    OH....IO Hink's avatar
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    Quote Originally posted by michaelskis View post
    I think that America is not better off and that things as a whole have gotten worse. I should note however, that it is not just Obamaís fault. There are several things that both parties have done to make it this way.
    I think we are all aware of this. Normally, I am very supportive of political threads. But you have now asked this question, in one form or the other numerous times...

    Quote Originally posted by michaelskis View post
    He was America's first black president..... Other that that, he will rate on the same level as Jimmy Carter.
    I think we are beating a dead horse. This isn't going to illicit any additional comments then those already being thrown around in the Neverending Political Thread. Keep it in there or in the 2012 Election thread. I don't think we need to keep starting threads that really are asking the same questions that have been asked numerous times before...

    Edit: Maister beat me to it...
    A common mistake people make when trying to design something completely foolproof is to underestimate the ingenuity of complete fools. -Douglas Adams

  8. #1358
    Cyburbian michaelskis's avatar
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    Quote Originally posted by Hink View post
    I think we are all aware of this. Normally, I am very supportive of political threads. But you have now asked this question, in one form or the other numerous times...

    Edit: Maister beat me to it...
    So then answer the question and why you feel that way.
    Not my monkey, not my circus. - Old Polish Proverb

  9. #1359
    Cyburbian
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    Quote Originally posted by michaelskis View post
    Do you think that the debates will make much of a difference? Personally, I think that is Romney's only shot at this point. I think he has to come out on the offensive if he stands a snowballs chance of winning this thing. But even then, he needs to think like a boxer. Jab at Obama followed with reason for the people to elect him. Hook to Obama, followed with a detailed economic plan.
    One key difference between this debate and previous ones is that the candidates know all the questions ahead of time. It's going to be hard for Romney to find an opening in that situation. Romney apparently has a list of "zingers" he'll use but those can be pretty awkward if not used at the right time. That plan seems risky to me in that tone is just as important as substance in a debate but I guess Romney needs to take risks at this point.

    For the life of me, I cannot see why people would continue to support Obama, but there are so many of them, that it does not look good for Romney.
    People at least know what they're getting with Obama. Romney has changed his positions so many times that even his base has a hard time trusting him. On top of that, Romney has thus far failed to make the case he's a better option than the status quo.

    I personally do not see what the issue is regarding voter ID laws. Almost anyone can get an ID so what is the big deal?
    It's difficult for some people to get the necessary documentation to get a state issued ID, even more so if you don't have your own transportation. Some states such as Mississippi even have a catch-22 system in place where you need a birth certificate to get an ID but need an ID to get a birth certificate. Ultimately adding any additional hurdle to the voting process is just going to depress turn out.

    Now personally I don't have an issue with voter ID laws per se. The issue I have is how these laws are clearly meant to influence the 2012 election. One to two years is not enough time to implement changes like this without disenfranchising people. If the rules were to go into effect in 2014 or 2016, I doubt you would have seen the outcry that you have.

  10. #1360
    Super Moderator kjel's avatar
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    Quote Originally posted by michaelskis View post
    So then answer the question and why you feel that way.
    A. I have a job. Funded by ARRA and Neighborhood Stabilization Program funding.
    B. I will NEVER go without health care coverage again or be denied under a group plan for pre-existing conditions.
    "He defended the cause of the poor and needy, and so all went well. Is that not what it means to know me?" Jeremiah 22:16

  11. #1361
    Cyburbian btrage's avatar
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    I may not be 100% thrilled with the Obama administration, but the Congressional Republicans have hampered our economic recovery so much more than the President. For that reason alone I will be filling in the little dot for Obama.
    "I'm very important. I have many leather-bound books and my apartment smells of rich mahogany"

  12. #1362
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    Quote Originally posted by michaelskis View post
    Overall, it is a poll on do you think that America, as a whole, is better since Obama took office and why do you think that.
    -----------------------------------------------------------------
    C'mon and get me you twist of fate
    I'm standing right here Mr. Destiny
    If you want to talk well then I'll relate
    If you don't so what cause you don't scare me

  13. #1363
    Cyburbian Brocktoon's avatar
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    Quote Originally posted by michaelskis View post
    Do you think that the debates will make much of a difference? Personally, I think that is Romney's only shot at this point. I think he has to come out on the offensive if he stands a snowballs chance of winning this thing. But even then, he needs to think like a boxer. Jab at Obama followed with reason for the people to elect him. Hook to Obama, followed with a detailed economic plan.
    You assume Romney has an economic plan and can describe it in 3 minutes. This debate is the first time I have seen one side building up the expectations of the debates. If Romney's performance in the Republican primary debates are any indication then the odds are not in his favor....especially if he tries to bet Obama $10K. Romney is a smart guy but when he is off the cuff he tends to say something the media will pounce on him for...and if he is scripted then he looks like a robot.

    Romney has to hope for a major misstep by Obama...given the format of debates it will be difficult for Romney to break out a rope-a-dope.


    For the life of me, I cannot see why people would continue to support Obama, but there are so many of them, that it does not look good for Romney.
    I felt the same way about President Bush in 2004. Four years ago banks were closing, houses was losing value, hundreds of thousands of people were being laid off and GDP was declining at a record rate. Banks are now lending again, home values are increasing in most markets and private sector job creation has been occurring over the past 2 years(its government sector job creation that is the drag. If Obama would start creating government jobs with President Bush then unemployment would be significantly lower).

    IMO Romney thought this election was going to be a referendum on the President. It turns out voter want to know who will lead the country better. Romney should be running away with this election but he has been so afraid to take a stand and lay out what he will do that people are sticking with who they know.

    I personally do not see what the issue is regarding voter ID laws. Almost anyone can get an ID so what is the big deal?
    How can a 87 year old living in an assisted living community that no longer drives make it to the DMV/SoS office to register in person to get a photo ID or even know they would need to do so...or the inner city mother who takes the bus to work and has never needed photo id?

    If the voter ID efforts also included substantial efforts to register or reregister voters and make sure that everyone that was eligible had a voter ID then I would believe they were sincere efforts. But since they do not and many Republicans believe PA is in play because of them the look like voter suppression efforts to me. If voter fraud was the real target then why have so few of the voter ID efforts targeted absentee voters where most of the fraud takes place? Any if election integrity is the ultimate goal then why not address all of the problems and lack of security with voting machines?

    Why aren't you concerned about people that are eligible to vote losing their franchise? What is a greater crime someone voting once or the state denying someone the right to vote? There is so much focus on the former but are all of the small government people okay with the government denying people those lawfully able to vote their Constitutional right?
    "If you don't like change, you're going to like irrelevance even less" General Eric Shinseki

  14. #1364
    Cyburbian Plus Whose Yur Planner's avatar
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    Quote Originally posted by Mastiff View post
    You expected something else?
    When did I go from Luke Skywalker to Obi-Wan Kenobi?

  15. #1365
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    Quote Originally posted by Brocktoon View post
    Romney should be running away with this election but he has been so afraid to take a stand and lay out what he will do that people are sticking with who they know.
    If there's any one thing killing Romney's campaign, it is this. He's so vague on the details that Obama's campaign is having an easy time filling in the blanks. Of course what Obama is saying isn't positive but Romney just responds with "that's not true" without giving us any evidence to the contrary.

  16. #1366
    Cyburbian imaplanner's avatar
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    Quote Originally posted by michaelskis View post
    So then answer the question and why you feel that way.
    I think this poll question has already been posted by you a few times. You should use some fresh bait.
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  17. #1367
    Cyburbian Plus Whose Yur Planner's avatar
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    Quote Originally posted by imaplanner View post
    I think this poll question has already been posted by you a few times. You should use some fresh bait.
    I'm afraid that's all he's got that he's got.
    When did I go from Luke Skywalker to Obi-Wan Kenobi?

  18. #1368
    Cyburbian wahday's avatar
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    Personally, I donít think this is a very effective question as it makes a lot of assumptions about what the president, or even governments in general, actually have the power to control. I think ďare we headed in the right direction?Ē is a better one. The difficult thing for any incumbent president to prove in an election like this (given the world economic conditions) is whether things would be worse if certain actions were not taken. And anyway, saying things are not as bad as they could have been is not exactly an inspirational endorsement. But I think that is where we are. The entire global economy is reeling and that is not something a president or even an entire national government can entirely control. Sure, we have a big impact on it, but much of the economy exists beyond our direct control and that's what we have to struggle with as well. Also, changing or impacting the economy, especially the issue of job creation, is not something that happens quickly. At my advancing age, 4 years seems like a very short time to accomplish this indeed.

    I do believe we are headed in the right direction. I do believe that Obamaís plan on taxation and spending is the more responsible route, if a painful one. I do not believe Romney and Ryan have a clearly fleshed out economic plan or at the very least they donít seem to know how to explain it (and that is troubling on its own). I donít believe that the wealthy will create more jobs if they pay less taxes (since a non-partisan study recently showed a negative correlation between job growth and tax breaks for the wealthy since the 1940s). I do believe that the Health Care legislation will help individual households better manage the absurd rise in healthcare costs.

    And so on.

    Seriously, you could ask some more probing and nuanced questions here. This reads like a Republican talking points memo.
    The purpose of life is a life of purpose

  19. #1369
    Cyburbian ColoGI's avatar
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    Quote Originally posted by michaelskis View post

    Overall, it is a poll on do you think that America, as a whole, is better since Obama took office and why do you think that.
    .
    Murrica is less soshulizt.

    That is: corporate profits are at their highest ever to GDP, fraction of workers to population is very low (more profit to the makers and not to the takers), gummint workers are decreasing, bin Laden is dead, we are out of Eye-rack (sorta), state-local spending is decreasing, the rich are freer to act like jerks, no bankers are in jail....its a Republican dream, IOW.
    -------
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  20. #1370
    Gunfighter Mastiff's avatar
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    Quote Originally posted by wahday View post
    This reads like a Republican talking points memo.
    So... it's written on Sarah Palin's hand?
    -----------------------------------------------------------------
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    I'm standing right here Mr. Destiny
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  21. #1371
    Cyburbian imaplanner's avatar
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    Quote Originally posted by ColoGI View post
    Murrica is less soshulizt.

    That is: corporate profits are at their highest ever to GDP, fraction of workers to population is very low (more profit to the makers and not to the takers), gummint workers are decreasing, bin Laden is dead, we are out of Eye-rack (sorta), state-local spending is decreasing, the rich are freer to act like jerks, no bankers are in jail....its a Republican dream, IOW.
    But this just proves that Obama is a failed prez! He can even do teh socialism right!

    Four more years and there won't even be an America any more!!! because like sharia and stuff.
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  22. #1372
    Cyburbian wahday's avatar
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    Quote Originally posted by Mastiff View post
    So... it's written on Sarah Palin's hand?
    FTW!
    The purpose of life is a life of purpose

  23. #1373
    Cyburbian Planit's avatar
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    Quote Originally posted by ColoGI View post
    Murrica is less soshulizt.

    That is: corporate profits are at their highest ever to GDP, fraction of workers to population is very low (more profit to the makers and not to the takers), gummint workers are decreasing, bin Laden is dead, we are out of Eye-rack (sorta), state-local spending is decreasing, the rich are freer to act like jerks, no bankers are in jail....its a Republican dream, IOW.
    It would be hilarious if President Obama opened up the debate tonight with that line.
    "Whatever beer I'm drinking, is better than the one I'm not." DMLW
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  24. #1374
    Cyburbian Plus
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    If you don't watch the debate, why do you hate America ?
    Oddball
    Why don't you knock it off with them negative waves?
    Why don't you dig how beautiful it is out here?
    Why don't you say something righteous and hopeful for a change?
    From Kelly's Heroes (1970)


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    No. Just some parts wake up faster than others.
    Broke parts take a little longer, though.
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  25. #1375
    Cyburbian WSU MUP Student's avatar
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    Quote Originally posted by JNA View post
    If you don't watch the debate, why do you hate America ?
    I'll be too busy watching a Venezuelan compete for the Triple Crown.
    "Where free unions and collective bargaining are forbidden, freedom is lost." - 1980 Republican presidential candidate Ronald Reagan

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