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Poll results: What do you think the outcome of tomorrow's presidential election will be?

Voters
26. You may not vote on this poll
  • Obama wins electoral and popular vote

    20 76.92%
  • Romney wins electoral and popular vote

    2 7.69%
  • Gary Johnson wins electoral and popular vote :thumb:

    0 0%
  • Obama wins electoral vote, Romney wins popular vote

    4 15.38%
  • Romney wins electoral vote, Obama wins popular vote

    0 0%
  • Obama and Romney tie in the electoral vote

    0 0%
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Thread: The First 2012 Presidential Election Thread

  1. #1426
    OH....IO Hink's avatar
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    Quote Originally posted by Tide View post
    Obama didn't get a favorable jobs report. America got a favorable jobs report.
    Does that mean America failed at creating jobs too?
    A common mistake people make when trying to design something completely foolproof is to underestimate the ingenuity of complete fools. -Douglas Adams

  2. #1427
    Cyburbian Tide's avatar
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    Quote Originally posted by Hink View post
    Does that mean America failed at creating jobs too?
    If America made a promise or commitment to and didn't then yes.
    Government doesn't "Create" much - that is the private sector which is given the "means" by the government (or restricted, depending on your business sector)
    @GigCityPlanner

  3. #1428
    Cyburbian ColoGI's avatar
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    Quote Originally posted by Hink View post
    Does that mean America failed at creating jobs too?
    America raised gas prices too, Koch ads to the contrary.
    -------
    Give a man a gun, and he can rob a bank. Give a man a bank, and he can rob the world.

  4. #1429
    Cyburbian imaplanner's avatar
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    uggghhh. This outright racism in this election is geeting out of control. I think I have to turn off the news and stop paying attention to this election.
    Children in the back seat can cause accidents - and vice versa.

  5. #1430
    Cyburbian michaelskis's avatar
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    Quote Originally posted by imaplanner View post
    uggghhh. This outright racism in this election is geeting out of control. I think I have to turn off the news and stop paying attention to this election.
    How so? Can you expand on that where you have witnessed racism?
    Not my monkey, not my circus. - Old Polish Proverb

  6. #1431
    Cyburbian ColoGI's avatar
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    Quote Originally posted by imaplanner View post
    uggghhh. This outright racism in this election is geeting out of control. I think I have to turn off the news and stop paying attention to this election.
    That may be best to save your sanity - simply shutting off TV news forever. Works for me.

    You may miss out on the next crazy lazy/changes his accent/food stamp/47%/not too bright/Kenyan/truther/witch doctor comedy skit though. Tough call.
    -------
    Give a man a gun, and he can rob a bank. Give a man a bank, and he can rob the world.

  7. #1432
    Cyburbian Brocktoon's avatar
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    Quote Originally posted by michaelskis View post
    How so? Can you expand on that where you have witnessed racism?
    You mean you have not heard of people that have chairs hanging (lynching style) by a rope and noose from a tree in their front yard?
    "If you don't like change, you're going to like irrelevance even less" General Eric Shinseki

  8. #1433
    Cyburbian Plus
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    Do you have early voting ? yes -Oct 15
    Will you ? considering it

    Is this worth a poll ?
    Oddball
    Why don't you knock it off with them negative waves?
    Why don't you dig how beautiful it is out here?
    Why don't you say something righteous and hopeful for a change?
    From Kelly's Heroes (1970)


    Are you sure you're not hurt ?
    No. Just some parts wake up faster than others.
    Broke parts take a little longer, though.
    From Electric Horseman (1979)

  9. #1434
    Cyburbian michaelskis's avatar
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    Quote Originally posted by Brocktoon View post
    You mean you have not heard of people that have chairs hanging (lynching style) by a rope and noose from a tree in their front yard?
    You have to be f-ing kidding me. There are only a hand full of those, none of them knew each other, and not one of them said that lynching had anything to do with it.

    Let's talk about all the people who are only going to vote for Obama becaus elf his skin color. Or maybe Biden saying that the republicans will put people back in chains. Or maybe Obama accusing Bush of being racist because New Orleans did not get enough federal aid after Katrena.

    Are there racest people out there. Yes. Skinhead groups and the KKK are racest without question and what they do is 100% wrong. But so are the Black panthers and anyone who voted for Obama in 2008 only because he was going to be the first Black president.

    Then there is this group... Link. Warning... May not be safe for work.
    Not my monkey, not my circus. - Old Polish Proverb

  10. #1435
    Cyburbian btrage's avatar
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    Quote Originally posted by michaelskis View post
    You have to be f-ing kidding me. There are only a hand full of those, none of them knew each other, and not one of them said that lynching had anything to do with it.

    Let's talk about all the people who are only going to vote for Obama becaus elf his skin color. Or maybe Biden saying that the republicans will put people back in chains. Or maybe Obama accusing Bush of being racist because New Orleans did not get enough federal aid after Katrena.

    Are there racest people out there. Yes. Skinhead groups and the KKK are racest without question and what they do is 100% wrong. But so are the Black panthers and anyone who voted for Obama in 2008 only because he was going to be the first Black president.

    Then there is this group... Link. Warning... May not be safe for work.
    What you say is true. But black people are in the minority based on population, political power, and socioeconomic power. You can't compare white people being racist with black people being racist.

    I also don't see the comparison between voting for Obama because he is black and and not voting for him because he is black. The former is due to what his election as a black man can do to uplift and provide hope to a generation of black kids, while the latter is done out of racism and hatred.

    Maybe it's just me, but knowing my extended family, racism is alive and well in this country, and if you (not you specifically m'skis), think it doesn't play a role, I would say that's crazy talk.
    "I'm very important. I have many leather-bound books and my apartment smells of rich mahogany"

  11. #1436
    Cyburbian Tide's avatar
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    Quote Originally posted by btrage View post
    I also don't see the comparison between voting for Obama because he is black and and not voting for him because he is black. The former is due to what his election as a black man can do to uplift and provide hope to a generation of black kids, while the latter is done out of racism and hatred.
    Racism works both ways, and is just as ugly. Just look at the backlash from people today regarding Stacey Dash backing Romney (google it).
    @GigCityPlanner

  12. #1437
    Cyburbian btrage's avatar
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    Quote Originally posted by Tide View post
    Racism works both ways, and is just as ugly. Just look at the backlash from people today regarding Stacey Dash backing Romney (google it).
    I agree. I was just trying to speak to the whole "they voted for him because he is black". I don't see it as being as negative as not voting for someone because they are black.
    "I'm very important. I have many leather-bound books and my apartment smells of rich mahogany"

  13. #1438
    Cyburbian ColoGI's avatar
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    I imagine there are folks out there who refuse to see POTUS being accused of being lazy, Muslim, not American, food stamp president, affirmative action president, Kenyan, birth certificate, witch doctor posters, Barack the Magic Negro...then we have Pat Buchanan and 'boy', Brietbart & Shirley Sherrod, Obama waffles, whiteface Joker signs, Drudge fake accents, communist, NBPP, 'bitter half', drug dealing, race riots if BHO loses, Steve Anderson praying for his death, Multitudinous e-mails (Barack's mom from a judge the latest), voter suppression in black neighborhoods in Ohio...just off the top of my head. From Republican....erm..."thought" leaders, not just some redneck in the south with a lynching display. Leaders of the party.

    Just as I imagine there are folks out there who refuse to see that Rmoney is lying, lying, lying and saying anything to get elected for his rich buddies' benefit. The Daily Show last night was the only place I'm aware of that discussed his debate bull%!it and how no one cares. Oh, The Onion too. 2/5 of the country simply doesn't care.

    -------
    Give a man a gun, and he can rob a bank. Give a man a bank, and he can rob the world.

  14. #1439
    Cyburbian Brocktoon's avatar
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    Quote Originally posted by michaelskis View post
    You have to be f-ing kidding me. There are only a hand full of those, none of them knew each other, and not one of them said that lynching had anything to do with it.
    Let's talk about all the people who are only going to vote for Obama becaus elf his skin color. Or maybe Biden saying that the republicans will put people back in chains. Or maybe Obama accusing Bush of being racist because New Orleans did not get enough federal aid after Katrena.

    Are there racest people out there. Yes. Skinhead groups and the KKK are racest without question and what they do is 100% wrong. But so are the Black panthers and anyone who voted for Obama in 2008 only because he was going to be the first Black president.

    Then there is this group... Link. Warning... May not be safe for work.

    .
    Yes, they just happened to hang a chair with a noose on their front lawn for the fun of it...I sure they have been doing it for years but now people are starting to notice.

    You asked for incidence of racism directed at the President and I am providing them. I would argue the "birthers" are racist in their tone and tenor. I think that holds true for those that think his real name is Barry Swarto and he is a covert Muslim whose grant plan is to destroy the US. How about the number death threats President Obama received when he was a candidate.

    As you post above suggests there is racism in this campaign which was the question you posed and suggested that it has not been present. I am suggesting it is and your post it seems like you agree.
    "If you don't like change, you're going to like irrelevance even less" General Eric Shinseki

  15. #1440
    Cyburbian michaelskis's avatar
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    Quote Originally posted by Brocktoon View post
    Yes, they just happened to hang a chair with a noose on their front lawn for the fun of it...I sure they have been doing it for years but now people are starting to notice.

    You asked for incidence of racism directed at the President and I am providing them. I would argue the "birthers" are racist in their tone and tenor. I think that holds true for those that think his real name is Barry Swarto and he is a covert Muslim whose grant plan is to destroy the US. How about the number death threats President Obama received when he was a candidate.

    As you post above suggests there is racism in this campaign which was the question you posed and suggested that it has not been present. I am suggesting it is and your post it seems like you agree.
    Birthers are not raciest... they are just stupid. As for the cover Muslim stuff... I am not going to hold my breath on that one coming true anytime soon.

    In my eyes, racism is making a decision based on the color of ones skin. Simple as that. I personally believe that someone not voting for Obama because he is black is just as wrong as someone voting for him because he is black. Skin color does not make someone more or less qualified to do anything.
    Not my monkey, not my circus. - Old Polish Proverb

  16. #1441
    Cyburbian
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    Quote Originally posted by michaelskis View post
    In my eyes, racism is making a decision based on the color of ones skin.
    Fundamentally I don't disagree but in practice I don't think it's as clear cut as this anymore. The sentiments behind racism are alive and well today, it's just not appropriate to be open about it anymore. So how can someone act on those sentiments without coming off a racist? They tie their racism to something else. It might not even be something they're cognizant of either.

    Now I'm not saying this is applicable to everyone but I don't think the numbers are insignificant either, especially with older people.

  17. #1442
    Cyburbian Brocktoon's avatar
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    Quote Originally posted by Blide View post
    Fundamentally I don't disagree but in practice I don't think it's as clear cut as this anymore. The sentiments behind racism are alive and well today, it's just not appropriate to be open about it anymore. So how can someone act on those sentiments without coming off a racist? They tie their racism to something else. It might not even be something they're cognizant of either.

    Now I'm not saying this is applicable to everyone but I don't think the numbers are insignificant either, especially with older people.
    I completely agree... and IMO the birthier movement is a great example of this point. They cannot say they don't like the President because he is black but they can manufacture a story so their dislike can manifest in different ways, he is a foreigner, usurper, illegitimate and dangerous. If you look at the history of racism in this country many of these themes are also present.
    "If you don't like change, you're going to like irrelevance even less" General Eric Shinseki

  18. #1443
    Cyburbian ColoGI's avatar
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    Quote Originally posted by Brocktoon View post
    they can manufacture a story so their dislike can manifest in different ways, he is a foreigner, usurper, illegitimate and dangerous. If you look at the history of racism in this country many of these themes are also present.
    Documentary Claiming Obama’s Mom a Porn Star Sent to Voters

    The only way you can't see it is if you refuse to see it.
    -------
    Give a man a gun, and he can rob a bank. Give a man a bank, and he can rob the world.

  19. #1444
    Cyburbian btrage's avatar
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    Quote Originally posted by Blide View post
    Fundamentally I don't disagree but in practice I don't think it's as clear cut as this anymore. The sentiments behind racism are alive and well today, it's just not appropriate to be open about it anymore. So how can someone act on those sentiments without coming off a racist? They tie their racism to something else. It might not even be something they're cognizant of either.

    Now I'm not saying this is applicable to everyone but I don't think the numbers are insignificant either, especially with older people.
    Thanks for saying this more eloquently than I could Blide.
    "I'm very important. I have many leather-bound books and my apartment smells of rich mahogany"

  20. #1445
    Cyburbian wahday's avatar
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    Quote Originally posted by michaelskis View post
    In my eyes, racism is making a decision based on the color of ones skin. Simple as that..
    Racism is one of those things like "culture" that is very challenging to define. But, like culture, it is real and does exist.

    For many in the social justice arena or those who study social histories, Racism is more complex than the above which I would say is more like "discrimination" (which I would say is more a feature of the larger concept of racism rather than an equivalent) Racism usually also involves feelings of superiority of one "race" over another and the exercise (or attempted exercise) of power to subjugate that group by denying rights, access to resources, etc. Trying to discredit and impeach the president is an attempt to leverage such power and the excuses (he's a Muslim, or not a US Citizen, or hates white people) may or may not be racially motivated, depending on the person. But personally, I think there is ample evidence that many of these efforts are fueled by racism and the frustration some feel that the social order has been upset. I mean, now a black man is telling us what to do?! Isn't it supposed to be the other way around? For some people, this seems to be hard to accept.

    Race is a fallacy, of course, because there is no way to categorically define the features that distinguish one from another. In reality, humans are all related and our external features change in gradations across the globe. But I'm sure everyone here knows that.

    Even if race were a legitimate reality, our president is as "white" as he is "black." Most people in our country just choose to emphasize the latter. Its what we do as Americans and is based on deep seated notions of purity and pollution. IMHO...
    The purpose of life is a life of purpose

  21. #1446
    Cyburbian Planit's avatar
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    Although I didin't watch the entire debate, when I clicked over to it, there were very interesting things. I loved how Ryan kept wanting to interrupt Biden (but I probably just got lucky he did it when I switched over).

    Here''s the USAToday article on Fact Checking several of the points both brought out. Enjoy:
    http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/p...heck/1628435/#
    "Whatever beer I'm drinking, is better than the one I'm not." DMLW
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  22. #1447
    OH....IO Hink's avatar
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    The VP debate was difficult to watch. Both guys just seemed so different, and it was obvious that Joe was sent in to bark as loud as he could.

    I think in the end, it will do nothing to either party, and will be forgotten by Tuesday when the real debate occurs.


    I think Ryan got a good jab in with the "sometimes words don't come out right" quote. Biden did well though to attack the obvious lies that even during the debate Ryan wouldn't/couldn't answer.

    At some point they are going to have to try and explain how closing loopholes will reduce the deficit. It isn't mathematically possible with the vague details they have provided. That issue isn't going to go away, and the Romney team needs to either get an answer for it (we are going remove the mortgage deduction from the middle class as well as the wealthy, etc.), or get a plan that shows how they actually plan to reduce the deficit.

    I think the foreign policy discussions on Tuesday will be interesting. Romney has been on the wrong side of numerous foreign policy issues over the last 6 months, and it will be interesting if Obama has the guts to bring them up or "be the bigger man" and let them slip. My guess, if Biden's debate was any indication, is that he is going to attack on all of Romney's weaknesses. Romney better get some better talking points then the ones Ryan tried to fly by last night.

    Discussion on details prior to the debate would go a long way for Romney. It should be interesting.
    A common mistake people make when trying to design something completely foolproof is to underestimate the ingenuity of complete fools. -Douglas Adams

  23. #1448
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    I thought Biden just destroyed Ryan in the debate. I can see how Biden could be seen as overly aggressive and condescending but he accomplished what he needed to do. It also made for a very entertaining debate.

  24. #1449
    Cyburbian michaelskis's avatar
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    Quote Originally posted by Planit View post
    Although I didin't watch the entire debate, when I clicked over to it, there were very interesting things. I loved how Ryan kept wanting to interrupt Biden (but I probably just got lucky he did it when I switched over).

    Here''s the USAToday article on Fact Checking several of the points both brought out. Enjoy:
    http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/p...heck/1628435/#
    I did not watch it at all... went to watch the Tigers instead. As for the link, I believe the foundation of what they said is true, but I find it funny that if there even a hint of truth in what Biden says, they give him credit for that, but if there is even a hint of a lie from Ryan, they call him out for that.

    Sad thing is Fox news is no better on the other side of the coin. I look at it this way. Biden has not been a major player in shaping policy over the past four years and neither of them are likely to be during the next four years.

    From what I hear though, Biden's actions were not professional and Ryan was not as prepared as he could have been. I plan to watch it tonight to see if that is the case.
    Not my monkey, not my circus. - Old Polish Proverb

  25. #1450
    Cyburbian Tide's avatar
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    Quote Originally posted by Blide View post
    I thought Biden just destroyed Ryan in the debate. I can see how Biden could be seen as overly aggressive and condescending but he accomplished what he needed to do. It also made for a very entertaining debate.
    Biden was so over the top and all over the place he would have destroyed anyone within 10 feet of him last night - the word loose cannon comes to mind.
    I believe the word that best describes last night is Cacophony.

    As Hink said, I think Biden's only goal was to go in an be a 180 from what Obama was in his last debate. Come out swinging even if they miss the mark be aggressive - I thought he overdid it though, especially with the eye rolling, smiling inappropriately, and harumphing.
    @GigCityPlanner

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