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Poll results: What do you think the outcome of tomorrow's presidential election will be?

Voters
26. You may not vote on this poll
  • Obama wins electoral and popular vote

    20 76.92%
  • Romney wins electoral and popular vote

    2 7.69%
  • Gary Johnson wins electoral and popular vote :thumb:

    0 0%
  • Obama wins electoral vote, Romney wins popular vote

    4 15.38%
  • Romney wins electoral vote, Obama wins popular vote

    0 0%
  • Obama and Romney tie in the electoral vote

    0 0%
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Thread: The First 2012 Presidential Election Thread

  1. #1576
    Cyburbian michaelskis's avatar
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    Quote Originally posted by Mastiff View post
    Yes, I am saying that. I'm also saying that it can work at a national level, even though I would prefer this and many other items handled by the states. Because simply, I don't want to live in MA (No offense intended MA people, I lived in Southie for a time.) and shouldn't have to move around as things change. The easiest option is to set a minimum level of care a state must provide, and let them handle it themselves.
    You can say it will work at a national level all you want. I don't think it will and those who I think know what they are talking about say it will not. Furthermore, as a tax, I think it is a massive overreach of the federal government. It is the first time in history that we are required to buy something just because we live here.

    What next, will be required to buy so many pounds of vegetables because they are good for us?

    Quote Originally posted by Mastiff View post
    Don't be obtuse... it was a statement to reinforce an argument and you damn well know it.
    No, I provide documentation and links to reinforce an argument. Often these links are from people with the background and credentials to prove that they know what they are talking about. Not some joke of a political hack with a journalism degree.

    Also does using light profanity make your statement any more powerful?
    Invest in the things today, that provide the returns tomorrow.

  2. #1577
    Cyburbian imaplanner's avatar
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    Quote Originally posted by michaelskis View post
    Dave is not just an entertainer. .
    He is a guy who was a slum lord, then took on too much debt trying to become rich and then went bankrupt. Then he started entertaining people and writing books about how the pursuit of enormous wealth is what all Christians should strive for. He is hardly an expert in being successful in business.
    Children in the back seat can cause accidents - and vice versa.

  3. #1578
    Cyburbian michaelskis's avatar
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    Quote Originally posted by imaplanner View post
    He is a guy who was a slum lord, then took on too much debt trying to become rich and then went bankrupt. Then he started entertaining people and writing books about how the pursuit of enormous wealth is what all Christians should strive for. He is hardly an expert in being successful in business.
    I don't buy the slum lord comment and I think you made that up. Second, he is quite a bit more an expert in being successful in business than any of the authors in the links that were provided as a response to my post.

    can you tell me how any of them are qualified to comment on economics and finances and how Obamacare? Do they have an educational background in finance? Do they own companies that hire employees?


    Personally it floors me that anyone can vote for Obama. He lied about everything he campaigned on in 2008, he either is incompetent or lying about the attacks in Libya, successfully passed a policy that requires Americans to buy something, and increased the national debt by 6 trillion dollars in 4 years, when he gave Bush grief for increasing it by 4 trillion in 8 years.
    Invest in the things today, that provide the returns tomorrow.

  4. #1579
    Gunfighter Mastiff's avatar
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    Quote Originally posted by michaelskis View post
    You can say it will work at a national level all you want. I don't think it will and those who I think know what they are talking about say it will not. Furthermore, as a tax, I think it is a massive overreach of the federal government. It is the first time in history that we are required to buy something just because we live here.
    And you seem quite capable of saying it will not work. I brought a real life example to the table, you brought some guy named Dave... And Mike, you aren't buying something because you live here, you buy it because you use the service! Are you saying we should repeal the Emergency Medical Treatment and Active Labor Act? Leave injured children to bleed out and die in front of the hospital? Oh, that's right, you only care about them before they're born.

    You own a home with a mortgage, you must pay insurance. You drive a car, you must pay insurance. It stands to reason if you get healthcare you need to be insured. And really, you can choose not to own a home or drive a car, but when you break a leg, it's usually not a choice.

    Quote Originally posted by michaelskis View post
    What next, will be required to buy so many pounds of vegetables because they are good for us?
    Excellent! Another false argument. They call this one appeal to emotion.

    Quote Originally posted by michaelskis View post
    No, I provide documentation and links to reinforce an argument. Often these links are from people with the background and credentials to prove that they know what they are talking about. Not some joke of a political hack with a journalism degree.
    Wow! You're on a roll... appeal to authority. Dave may have advanced degrees in every field needed to produce a valid conclusion on this topic, but we have no idea what effort he put into researching the data. The "hack" may have done greater research, have a better understanding, and have comprised a better conclusion.

    This is what Dave says! is not a valid argument, even if you believe it.

    Quote Originally posted by michaelskis View post
    Also does using light profanity make your statement any more powerful?
    No, just makes me feel warm and fuzzy.
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  5. #1580
    moderator in moderation Suburb Repairman's avatar
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    I've concluded that doctors that are freaking out about Obamacare are simply lazy. My doctor is pretty dang good at what he does, as is his neurosurgeon brother (both run their own fully-staffed private practices). They have both said that they will be just fine as Obamacare is implemented with just a few adjustments to their business practices (not patient care). In fact, they have both said they would vastly prefer moving to a single-payer system over the current private insurance system, both from a business perspective & patient care perspective. Anedotal evidence flows both directions.

    Dave Ramsey may know stuff about personal finance, but he knows jack shit about health policy, fiscal policy, economic policy, or, well, virtually any policy.

    The Federal role must expand in this, because States are not isolated pods. It is not unusual for a patient, particularly in cancer care or with a rare disease, to be referred out-of-state. The rules of the game need to stay the same across state boundaries. Texas is probably the leader in pushing the limit of state control, particularly in healthcare, and look where it has gotten us. Unfortunately, our districts are gerrimandered to protect incumbants (particularly GOP incumbants), so the hope of getting any change is near impossible. That's how a Congress with abysmally low approval ratings keeps managing to get reelected.

    "Oh, that is all well and good, but, voice or no voice, the people can always be brought to the bidding of the leaders. That is easy. All you have to do is tell them they are being attacked and denounce the pacifists for lack of patriotism and exposing the country to danger. It works the same way in any country."

    - Herman Göring at the Nuremburg trials (thoughts on democracy)

  6. #1581
    Cyburbian Plus Whose Yur Planner's avatar
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    Quote Originally posted by michaelskis View post
    I Personally it floors me that anyone can vote for Obama.
    This statement right here is where you lose all credibility in your political agruements. All poltical comments you make always come down to this. We all know, no what matter how you start out, it will boil down to you can't see how any one can vote Obama.
    When did I go from Luke Skywalker to Obi-Wan Kenobi?

  7. #1582
    Cyburbian ColoGI's avatar
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    This is how dey rollin', folks:

    Earlier this week, ThinkProgress released internal documents from the Romney campaign detailing how it is training poll watchers to mislead voters in Wisconsin. Now, according to new documents, Wisconsin may not be the only state where Romney’s campaign is equipping volunteers with deceptive information.

    A new ThinkProgress investigation has found that in Iowa, Romney poll watchers are being trained to watch for voters who show up without a photo ID, even though no voter ID law exists in the state.
    Its the only way they know how to play. And the third-raters in this campaign continue with the third-raterness, telling African-Americans in Ohio to vote R because...snork...Lincoln freed the slaves....heep....heep...HAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!

    Rmoney campaign: constant clown comedy.

    How sad is it that this race is close?
    -------
    Give a man a gun, and he can rob a bank. Give a man a bank, and he can rob the world.

  8. #1583
    Cyburbian ColoGI's avatar
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    FL Votes Disappeared

    Republican vote suppression getting cranked up:

    at one Florida polling location, in a heavily black neighborhood, the number of people who voted early was suddenly “revised” from 2,945 to 1,942 – that’s a 34% decrease...We reported last night that a firm doing business with the National Republican Committee and the Romney campaign was being investigated for voter fraud. The firm has done $2.9 million in business with the Republican National Committee this year alone, and another firm run by the same did $80,000 in work for Romney.
    Its how they roll.
    -------
    Give a man a gun, and he can rob a bank. Give a man a bank, and he can rob the world.

  9. #1584
    Cyburbian Plus Zoning Goddess's avatar
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    People who oppose "Obamacare" will be distressed if it's ended and they have to pay for their kids who "age out" of their workplace insurance (if they even get that). I thought I was going to have to get a policy just for the kid and was glad he could continue on RJ's policy.

  10. #1585
    OH....IO Hink's avatar
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    Quote Originally posted by Suburb Repairman View post
    I've concluded that doctors that are freaking out about Obamacare are simply lazy.
    I disagree with this, but I think those who are complaining the loudest are also more worried about their paycheck then the good of the patient. I think Obamacare will affect (in many ways negatively) the way medicine is practiced. For many doctors this means either A.) A change in pay because of lower reimbursements under the expansion of medicare/caid, or B.) A feared movement towards more government and less doctor controlled decision making in the hospital.

    I think there is likely some real concern about both. We already have a doctor shortage in this country and we are expecting more, and paying less to those who become physicians. With Obamacare we do not deal with the causes of the heart attack, just try and make the heart attack seem more palatable to those who are going to have them. Until there is additional protections put in place for physicians (i.e. tort reform, med mal caps, modifications to EMTALA), most will be skeptical at best of Obamacare. This changes the system and not necessarily for the better for physicians.

    The real issue is that no one knows truly what is going to happen until these exchanges are set up, and what it will look like in States that choose not to set one up and use the National system...
    A common mistake people make when trying to design something completely foolproof is to underestimate the ingenuity of complete fools. -Douglas Adams

  11. #1586
    Cyburbian Veloise's avatar
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    Read the thread about TS's family and healthcare

    Anyone spouting arguments about Obamacare needs to review what TS wrote about obtaining coverage for the newborn.

    And then tell me that I am not better off with a couple of recent medical procedures, fully covered by the Affordable Healthcare Act.

  12. #1587
    Cyburbian Planit's avatar
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    Quote Originally posted by Veloise View post
    Anyone spouting arguments about Obamacare needs to review what TS wrote about obtaining coverage for the newborn.

    And then tell me that I am not better off with a couple of recent medical procedures, fully covered by the Affordable Healthcare Act.
    Great post vel. I wanted to put something similar out there, but I didn't wantt to come across like a troll or picking a fight. I'm a fairly blunt person at times.

    All the posts we've seen iin ts & mw's recent event are very supportive to her and her family. However, the Romney & Ryan camp have said we don't need the Affordable Healthcare Act because if you don't have insurance, you can go to the hospital's emergency room and be treated. That being the case, she shouldn't have to worry about a thing when the seamonkey gets sick, or needs tubes in his ears, or has an infection, or tonsils need to come out, or....................................
    "Whatever beer I'm drinking, is better than the one I'm not." DMLW
    "Budweiser sells a product they reflectively insist on calling beer." John Oliver

  13. #1588
    Cyburbian Veloise's avatar
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    Quote Originally posted by Planit View post
    Great post vel. I wanted to put something similar out there, but I didn't want to come across like a troll or picking a fight. I'm a fairly blunt person at times.

    All the posts we've seen iin ts & mw's recent event are very supportive to her and her family. .......
    Ranting about "those people" and "deadbeats" and "welfare queens" can be an interesting exercise. I am not shy about my using AHA coverage. Mine is provided by the state of Michigan because the private, businessman-run health insurance companies have decided that I have a pre-existing condition. (I don't. I take a medication intended to avoid getting that disease, and the Rx raises a red flag in the small minds of those looking for a reason to keep me out of the insured pool.)

    The monthly bill is more than $500, which is a lot more than the private insurers. My deductible was met with the first look-see inside my knee. Interestingly, Obamacare's gradual requirements mean that private insurers are now calling to offer me coverage.

    "Coming out" as someone directly impacted by affordable health care helps put a face on it.

  14. #1589
    Cyburbian Cardinal's avatar
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    There has been a great deal of concern about how Hurricane Sandy may impact the election. Besides issues of how the response may sway voters, many people are dislocated and may not have access to polling places, either because they are elsewhere or the polling place no longer exists or is inaccessible. There are also concerns about lost ballots, lost poll workers, lost voting booths, etc. Recognizing the problems and in an effort to mitigate confusion on election day, the National Elections Commission has extended voting. Under the emergency rules, voters intending to cast a ballot for Barack Obama are instructed to vote on Tuesday, November 6th as normal. Voting for Mitt Romney will occur one week later on Tuesday, November 13th. You must vote on the assigned date. You will not be allowed to cast a vote for Mitt Romney on November 6th, and you will not be allowed to cast a vote for Barack Obama on November 13th. Many of us tried and true Republicans feel that the emergency rules have put Romney at a disadvantage, so we need to work extra hard to mobilize our supporters. Please let all of your Republican friends know to vote on November 13th!
    Anyone want to adopt a dog?

  15. #1590
    Cyburbian btrage's avatar
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    Quote Originally posted by michaelskis View post
    I don't buy the slum lord comment and I think you made that up. Second, he is quite a bit more an expert in being successful in business than any of the authors in the links that were provided as a response to my post.

    can you tell me how any of them are qualified to comment on economics and finances and how Obamacare? Do they have an educational background in finance? Do they own companies that hire employees?


    Personally it floors me that anyone can vote for Obama. He lied about everything he campaigned on in 2008, he either is incompetent or lying about the attacks in Libya, successfully passed a policy that requires Americans to buy something, and increased the national debt by 6 trillion dollars in 4 years, when he gave Bush grief for increasing it by 4 trillion in 8 years.
    While I will be voting for Obama, it does not "floor me" that people would vote for Romney. This country is made up of all different political backgrounds, beliefs and opinions. It's our job to come together and find common ground for solving our problems. I would venture that your attitude regarding this is part of the problem that we face and which permeates through Congress.

    Recognizing why someone would vote for a candidate does not lessen the zeal that you can have for your own choice.
    "I'm very important. I have many leather-bound books and my apartment smells of rich mahogany"

  16. #1591
    Cyburbian ColoGI's avatar
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    Newtie: shuttin' that whole thang day-own

    Looks like Newt sent his e-mail list a note:

    “The truth is, the next election has already been decided. Obama is going to win. It’s nearly impossible to beat an incumbent president,” advertiser Porter Stansberry wrote in the email to Gingrich supporters. “What’s actually at stake right now is whether or not he will have a third-term.”
    Up next: wasting taxpayer money on impeachment over Benghazi/jobs numbers/CRS/Clinton/drones and anything else they make up?
    -------
    Give a man a gun, and he can rob a bank. Give a man a bank, and he can rob the world.

  17. #1592
    Cyburbian btrage's avatar
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    Quote Originally posted by ColoGI View post
    Looks like Newt sent his e-mail list a note:


    Up next: wasting taxpayer money on impeachment over Benghazi/jobs numbers/CRS/Clinton/drones and anything else they make up?
    I saw the first "impeach Obama over Benghazi" FB post yesterday. Such a waste of our time.
    "I'm very important. I have many leather-bound books and my apartment smells of rich mahogany"

  18. #1593
    Cyburbian imaplanner's avatar
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    Quote Originally posted by btrage View post
    I saw the first "impeach Obama over Benghazi" FB post yesterday. Such a waste of our time.
    The Bengazi-gaters are morons. There is nothing there other than a right-wing throw all kinds of crap and see what sticks. It's particularly ridiculous when you consider these are the same people who defend the bush admins approach to terror and regime change. When mskis brings this kind of crap up I'm reminded of his "pretending to be stupid or just stupid" thread.

    Quote Originally posted by michaelskis
    I don't buy the slum lord comment and I think you made that up. Second, he is quite a bit more an expert in being successful in business than any of the authors in the links that were provided as a response to my post.
    I thought that was how he made his money before he went bankrupt. Buying dilapidated rentals and jacking up the rents. Either way- the guy is a failed businessman who became a success at telling people God wants them to be rich and that poor people are immoral. There is apparently a big market for people who want to hear that the wealthy are better Christians than the rest of us.
    Children in the back seat can cause accidents - and vice versa.

  19. #1594
    OH....IO Hink's avatar
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    Quote Originally posted by imaplanner View post
    There is apparently a big market for people who want to hear that the wealthy are better Christians than the rest of us.
    *Taps my nose multiple times.....Bingo.
    A common mistake people make when trying to design something completely foolproof is to underestimate the ingenuity of complete fools. -Douglas Adams

  20. #1595
    Cyburbian ColoGI's avatar
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    Quote Originally posted by btrage View post
    I saw the first "impeach Obama over Benghazi" FB post yesterday. Such a waste of our time.
    Quote Originally posted by imaplanner View post
    The Bengazi-gaters are morons...[t]here is apparently a big market for people who want to hear that the wealthy are better Christians than the rest of us.
    I think there are all kinds of markets for self-deception in this country: Benghazi, secret mooz-leem, birth certificate, man-made climate change hoax, Agenda 21, vax hoax, HAARP...

    All too easy to both list the categories, and to manipulate that market segment for profit or political gain.

    -------
    Give a man a gun, and he can rob a bank. Give a man a bank, and he can rob the world.

  21. #1596
    Cyburbian prudence's avatar
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    Oh, I see...

    So this thread is just another opportunity to bash anyone who has a differing opinion from Democrats. It is generally one long diatribe on how glorious the Left is and how their way of thinking is the only way...

    It must be exhausting to continually point out how horrible the rest of us are.

    Thank you for your perseverence.
    "Dear Prudence...won't you open up your eyes? "

  22. #1597
    Cyburbian btrage's avatar
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    Quote Originally posted by prudence View post
    So this thread is just another opportunity to bash anyone who has a differing opinion from Democrats. It is generally one long diatribe on how glorious the Left is and how their way of thinking is the only way...

    It must be exhausting to continually point out how horrible the rest of us are.

    Thank you for your perseverence.
    We all welcome a vigorous debate. And although I voted for Obama in 2008 and will vote for him again in 2012, I am in no way tied to the liberal tenants of the Democratic Party. I've voted Republican in the past and I'm sure I will at some point in the future.

    I assume you're referring to m'skis? I don't think anyone is bashing his opinions. Rather, they bash how he arrives at them. If someone is getting personal, please point it out.

    By the way, nice of you to pop in. Do you have anything of substance to add to the conversation? Or are you just dismissing "the Left" in one fell swoop?
    "I'm very important. I have many leather-bound books and my apartment smells of rich mahogany"

  23. #1598
    Cyburbian imaplanner's avatar
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    Quote Originally posted by prudence View post
    So this thread is just another opportunity to bash anyone who has a differing opinion from Democrats. It is generally one long diatribe on how glorious the Left is and how their way of thinking is the only way...

    It must be exhausting to continually point out how horrible the rest of us are.

    Thank you for your perseverence.
    I don't get the sense that most cyburbians are democrats. Most cyburbians are just not buying the lies and idiotic crap spewing forth from the Fox News and right-wing talk radio, nor are they buying the crap put out by the democrats. And your attitude is what really rubs me. You take criticism of baseless talking points and somehow determine that I and others think the left is glorious - yet if you actually read what we are saying you would know that is not even close to what anyone is saying. Most of the posters here have been highly critical of both Romney and Obama.

    People pointing out that a right-wing radio host is just as partisan as any left wing opinion writers is what gets you? People who refuse to think outside the black and white, right/left wing paradigm are the people being criticized in this thread. Jumping in with no actual criticism but calling people who are not democrats democrats just because they point out Dave Ramsey is a right-wing partisan just points out how invested you probably are in the left/right no grey area paradigm.

    If you actually post something of substance you might find many agreeing with you, unless of course it is a nonsense talking point put out by one party or the other. Do you have anything of substance to add to the conversation?
    Children in the back seat can cause accidents - and vice versa.

  24. #1599
    Cyburbian ColoGI's avatar
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    Quote Originally posted by prudence View post
    So this thread is just another opportunity to bash anyone who has a differing opinion from Democrats. It is generally one long diatribe on how glorious the Left is and how their way of thinking is the only way...

    It must be exhausting to continually point out how horrible the rest of us are.

    Thank you for your perseverence.
    The thread is actually an opportunity to test reading comprehension and critical thinking skills, set up by some commie lib professor.

    But hey, don't let us stop you from joining in the fun of pointing out how the GOP had a sad over the latest CRS report that negated their "governing" philosophy and whined so hard they had it withdrawn. Or the fake-@$$ Benghazi scandal. Or the tawdry mischaracterization of the "47%". Or the vast expansion of insurance industry profits a'comin'. Or or or. By all means, list your favorite fake scandal du jour!!!!!!!!!1one! and let 'er rip!
    -------
    Give a man a gun, and he can rob a bank. Give a man a bank, and he can rob the world.

  25. #1600
    Gunfighter Mastiff's avatar
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    Quote Originally posted by prudence View post
    So this thread is just another opportunity to bash anyone who has a differing opinion from Democrats. It is generally one long diatribe on how glorious the Left is and how their way of thinking is the only way...

    It must be exhausting to continually point out how horrible the rest of us are.
    Just hold on a minute there, Sparky. You can come with your drive-by baloney based screed about the "bashing" of this and that, but a finer microscope centered on one of your own would reveal this...

    The R wrote:
    "Personally it floors me that anyone can vote for Obama."

    The D wrote:
    "While I will be voting for Obama, it does not "floor me" that people would vote for Romney."

    I'm an L, and you can just go there if all you want is to come trashing a thread that has had a great deal of debate, both heated and not. In fact, if you was to see someone guilty of "bashing", perhaps you need a mirror.
    -----------------------------------------------------------------
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    If you don't so what cause you don't scare me

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