The First 2012 Presidential Election Thread

[wahday]

So this thread is just another opportunity to bash anyone who has a differing opinion from Democrats. It is generally one long diatribe on how glorious the Left is and how their way of thinking is the only way...

It must be exhausting to continually point out how horrible the rest of us are.

Thank you for your perseverence.

Did you have a question or a response to the OP? Or are you just trolling?

It must be exhausting to continually point out how horrible the rest of us are.

It cuts both ways, my friend. Since you just did the same thing...

BTW, love your generalizations! They're just your size...

[michaelskis]

There is a lot to reposed to so I will keep it simple. You don't need to own a car, thus no car nsueance. You don't need to own a house... No house insurance. The only way to not have the health insurance mandate is to leave the country.

The government is requiring us to buy a product or service. That is why the Supreme Court called it a tax.

I don't think anyone is bashing me. They are just thinking in a way that I feel is wrong and I fear that their way of thinking will destroy this country.

[Bubba]

So this thread... Hey - prudence lives!

[ColoGI]

They are just thinking in a way that I feel is wrong and I fear that their way of thinking will destroy this country.

Some are fed talking points to manipulate them into to being afraid, and to think that the mendacity they are fed is the dirrrty lib'rulllls way of thinking. What is sad is there is a market for this sort of messaging.

[imaplanner]

Bill O Reilly is just the latest Fox news person to say O hates America because blacks hate whites. Wtf people?

And now fox is saying Obama let his own ambassador die because he hates America because he is black and so naturally sides with the terrorists. Even blowhard Geraldo is complaining that his network is being irresposible.

Seriously. Fuck you Fox News and their fans.

[Mastiff]

There is a lot to reposed to so I will keep it simple. You don't need to own a car, thus no car nsueance. You don't need to own a house... No house insurance. The only way to not have the health insurance mandate is to leave the country.

The government is requiring us to buy a product or service. That is why the Supreme Court called it a tax.

It is very simple, and I'm unsure why you just can't concede a point. I said the exact same thing about the car and house that you just said, but you avoided the very rational nexus I made. Let me make it one more time and see if you wish to address it. In fact, I'll just use you as an example to make it simple, and define each point and my conclusion.

A) You aren't Superman, hence you have have the ability to be injured or have a medical issue.

B) Since you have lived for a time, you've either had an accident or medical condition that required the care of a physician.

C) Health services must be paid.

D) If you could not pay the bill, the cost was borne by others through the increase of fees to cover the loss.

E) As an average wage earner, you do not have the funds to pay for any expensive medical procedure out of pocket.

THEREFORE: Unless you have health insurance, and you had a major accident or medical issue, you would not have had the ability to pay the bill, and have harmed me financially.

It's that simple, Mike.

[ColoGI]

And now fox is saying Obama let his own ambassador die because he hates America because he is black and so naturally sides with the terrorists. Even blowhard Geraldo is complaining that his network is being irresposible.

Ewww. You watch Faux?

[michaelskis]

It is very simple, and I'm unsure why you just can't concede a point. I said the exact same thing about the car and house that you just said, but you avoided the very rational nexus I made. Let me make it one more time and see if you wish to address it. In fact, I'll just use you as an example to make it simple, and define each point and my conclusion.

A) You aren't Superman, hence you have have the ability to be injured or have a medical issue.

B) Since you have lived for a time, you've either had an accident or medical condition that required the care of a physician.

C) Health services must be paid.

D) If you could not pay the bill, the cost was borne by others through the increase of fees to cover the loss.

E) As an average wage earner, you do not have the funds to pay for any expensive medical procedure out of pocket.

THEREFORE: Unless you have health insurance, and you had a major accident or medical issue, you would not have had the ability to pay the bill, and have harmed me financially.

It's that simple, Mike.

Amazing. I know you are a bright guy, but you post something like that? There is also a chance that my identity might be stollen, should the gov require I get insurance for that too. About half the population gets devorced, should the government require people get a pre-nup?

The US was created because our founders wanted to get away from this type of thing. I agree it is foolish to not have insurance, but it is wrong for the government to require it.

[ddomin4360]

Bill O Reilly is just the latest Fox news person to say O hates America because blacks hate whites. Wtf people?

And now fox is saying Obama let his own ambassador die because he hates America because he is black and so naturally sides with the terrorists. Even blowhard Geraldo is complaining that his network is being irresposible.

Seriously. Fuck you Fox News and their fans.

I used to really enjoy Fox News. Probably the last couple of years of the Bush administration and first year of the Obama administration. In fact I though their election day coverage in 06 and 08 was better than on the other channels.

With that said, the derp at Fox News grows exponentially by the minute.

[ColoGI]

...There is also a chance that my identity might be stollen, should the gov [key tell] require I get insurance for that too. About half the population gets devorced, should the government require people get a pre-nup?

The US was created because our founders wanted to get away from this type of thing [sic] . I agree it is foolish to not have insurance, but it is wrong for the government to require it.

Ridiculous hyperbole aside, I'd suggest that if you are sooooo sad about living in a society that finally cares about the health of its populace that you should pack up and go Galt move, but golly, every other G20 country is enlightened and you would get taken care of in any of those countries too if you got sick. So it would be wrong to live in any other first-world country too (and cheaper for better health care, but one topic at a time). You'll have to have your sad and get over it and expect your health-care expenses to increase more slowly now. Shucky darns, eh?

[Brocktoon]

Amazing. I know you are a bright guy, but you post something like that? There is also a chance that my identity might be stollen, should the gov require I get insurance for that too. About half the population gets devorced, should the government require people get a pre-nup?

The US was created because our founders wanted to get away from this type of thing. I agree it is foolish to not have insurance, but it is wrong for the government to require it.

But in none of these instances will society be required to pay for your lack of insurance but when you don't have insurance and receive medical services someone pays...it is you, your insurance or society through either government assistance or higher medical bills for those that either pay out of pocket or have insurance.

Besides government does not require you to have health insurance. You can choose not to and pay a tax to help offset the cost of providing you access to medical service. You have a choice.

[Hink]

But in none of these instances will society be required to pay for your lack of insurance but when you don't have insurance and receive medical services someone pays...it is you, your insurance or society through either government assistance or higher medical bills for those that either pay out of pocket or have insurance.

Besides government does not require you to have health insurance. You can choose not to and pay a tax to help offset the cost of providing you access to medical service. You have a choice.

All of this is very correct. I can't stand the weak sauce argument that the government is forcing you to get insurance or that it is going to lead to the government forcing you to do lots of other things....

If your identity gets stolen, you are out money. You neighbor is not. The only affected party is you.

In a divorce, only the two people involved are affected. If you don't have a pre-nup, it doesn't affect your neighbor.

If you don't have medical insurance and then go to the Emergency Room (where EMTALA forces you to be seen), you will get service, you will get care, and you will get a big bill that will never be paid. Understanding that if you don't pay it, those physicians need to make a living somehow, Mike, how do you suggest that I am not affected?

A simple step by step guide:

1. Person goes to the Emergency Room without insurance, gets service.
2. Hospital doesn't get paid for service.
3. Hospital raises rates for insured to cover cost of uninsured.
4. I go to ER with insurance.
5. I pay more because I have insurance.

A person not having insurance affects a much larger pool of people. It isn't like if you don't have insurance the only person who is affected is you. It affects the physicians who care for you (they don't get paid), it affects the hospitals (they have to raise their rates to cover costs), and it affects your neighbor (he has insurance and has to pay more because of you).

[michaelskis]

I understand how the ER works since my wife spent two years working in one doing overnights before she moved up to doing heart transplants.

It does not matter what other countries do. There are some countries that don't give women the freedoms that we have here. Should we allow that to happen too.

It is wrong to require the government to require us to buy something... Even more wrong to require people to go against our religious beliefs.

[Brocktoon]

I understand how the ER works since my wife spent two years working in one doing overnights before she moved up to doing heart transplants.

It does not matter what other countries do. There are some countries that don't give women the freedoms that we have here. Should we allow that to happen too.

It is wrong to require the government to require us to buy something... Even more wrong to require people to go against our religious beliefs.

Again the US does not require its citizens to purchase health insurance, why do you keep misstating the facts on this topic? The federal government requires those without health insurance to pay an additional tax. It is not a fine which would suggest a violation of the law if you are not in compliance.

Is it wrong for state governments to require car insurance? Is it wrong for cities to require HOA's if there is a common area?

[Veloise]

I understand how the ER works since my wife spent two years working in one doing overnights before she moved up to doing heart transplants...

My sister sang in her HS choir for three years, but I don't pretend to have any expertise on vocal music.

[ColoGI]

My sister sang in her HS choir for three years, but I don't pretend to have any expertise on vocal music.

My mom worked ER for nine years at St John's in Day-twa, retired as a nurse after 40 years. I won't share what she calls people who aren't able or aren't willing to grasp what ACA means - she has a potty mouth and this is a family board, after all.

But unless Rmoney's son and Rove's buddies hack the machines in Ohio and FL after they suppress the vote, this is an exercise in what-ifs, anyway, because POTUS appears to have the electoral college (unless they have hacked the polls too).

[Tide]

because POTUS appears to have the electoral college

With every swing state poll almost tied or within the typical margin of error of 3 - 3.5 nothing is a sure bet on Tuesday.

[ColoGI]

With every swing state poll almost tied or within the typical margin of error of 3 - 3.5 nothing is a sure bet on Tuesday.

I agree, but I like the odds. My wife and I are betting on a within 3-vote range in the Electoral College and I will be a very happy boy indeed if I get the number right. ;o)

[Dan]

Strange. In solidly blue New York, political ads from PACs just started appearing on local channels. Most are anti-Obama.

Tompkins County: semi-rural, generally white collar/affluent. Yard signs are mostly for Democratic local, House and Senate candidates. Few Obama signs, no Romney signs.

Cortland County: semi-rural, generally blue collar/working class. Scattered Romney signs, no Obama signs.

Tioga County: rural, generally working class. Romney signs everywhere.

EDIT:

[ColoGI]

Strange. In solidly blue New York, political ads from PACs just started appearing on local channels. Most are anti-Obama....Romney signs everywhere.

Talking Points Memo has several entries discussing this phenomenon of dumping ads in states where the Red team isn't going to win.

[Hink]

I understand how the ER works since my wife spent two years working in one doing overnights before she moved up to doing heart transplants.

"Moved up"? I am fairly certain that having one specialty does not make you more knowledgeable about anything else. I would say your argument would be more valid if say you were an Emergency Physician. Or even if your wife was trained in Emergency Medicine or was a Boarded Emergency Specialist...

You make a very weak argument for knowing anything. If you believe Dave knows everything about the economy because it is so... then you probably are making the same argument that you are right on this... because it is so, and therefore there is no discussing it further, but please know, you have made no argument to support your misleading statements. You have shown no proof, as to your weak assertions of unfair mandates, or unreasonable government takeover of our rights.

It does not matter what other countries do. There are some countries that don't give women the freedoms that we have here. Should we allow that to happen too.

It is wrong to require the government to require us to buy something... Even more wrong to require people to go against our religious beliefs.

Yes, because women's rights are very similar to the healthcare issue at hand. Squirrel!! Did you know some countries also allow pirates to freely live in their borders, and some countries allow pot, and some countries force all people to take 6 weeks of vacation a year.... what horrible places those must be... I would hope we wouldn't allow such horrible things to happen here. Squirrel!

Not to quote Seth and Amy, but.... "Really?". I know that you disagree, but please try and disagree on more than just what you feel are your rights. As a defender of the constitution, although your rights are inalienable, so are everyone else's. I have seen more people who claim to be defending freedom and religion, who are really out to get those who don't agree with them - i.e. How the healthcare law "forces" people to be covered for contraception, and therefore is breaking your religious beliefs. It doesn't force you to get contraception. It allows those who want it to be able to get it... it is better for the whole, not just a certain demographic that is anti-contraception.

I know I am not right on every issue. I know that I don't agree with either side on many moral, value, and judgement issues. I know that we all are biased in our own views... but if you are unable or unwilling to see past your own bias, there is no reason to have a discussion about politics. Period.

[imaplanner]

I used to really enjoy Fox News. Probably the last couple of years of the Bush administration and first year of the Obama administration. In fact I though their election day coverage in 06 and 08 was better than on the other channels.

With that said, the derp at Fox News grows exponentially by the minute.

I don't watch much tv but when I'm following politics I want to get both sides. Fox has now gone both full on racist, and full on subversive. It was just a year or so ago when people like Buchanan and Beck were admonished for racist rhetoric. Now its almost all of the right-wing media saying Obama hates America because he is black. And Fox is now outright lying about the events in Libya and actually suggesting the president watched Americans die and withheld help - a proven lie - because he sides with terrorists over Americans. Its disgusting.

[ColoGI]

EDIT:

I started noticing that the Valerie Jarrett-Behghazi-latest nutter conspiracies weren't on here, and then realized you can't make a diagram that is going to be able to fit all the conspiracy theories that these Faux watchers believe are true.

[DetroitPlanner]

There is an election coming up?

[Maister]

There is an election coming up?

There are 23 phone numbers that showed up on my caller ID over the weekend which suggest this may be the case. TRUE.