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Thread: The NEVERENDING Political Discussion Thread

  1. #926
    Cyburbian imaplanner's avatar
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    The mormon thing is going to be interesting. My feeling is that the majority of GOP voters are not yet willing to support for President anyone who isn't a white christian. Maybe I am wrong.
    Children in the back seat can cause accidents - and vice versa.

  2. #927
    Cyburbian Duke Of Dystopia's avatar
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    Quote Originally posted by ursus View post
    ..... Plenty of higher-profile types have made it generally clear that mormons are not necessarily odd or incredibly zealous.
    Maybe in Utah, everywhere else they run in pairs dressed in suits passing out copies of "Lighthouse"!

    The mormon church, uwhoops, Church of Later Day Saints.. also was a major funder of the pro Prop 8 in California.

    I think the question of zealous is still up in the air.

    They are very polite when they show up to proselytize on your doorstep. Also, they are very fun to talk to. They do not know the history of Christianity an better than the equally unschooled jahova's witnesses.

    I like talking to them, but they never seem to come back....
    I can't deliver UTOPIA, but I can create a HELL for you to LIVE in :)DoD:(

  3. #928
    OH....IO Hink's avatar
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    http://www.politico.com/news/stories/0111/48560.html

    And another one bits the dust. Her mother and now Barbara Bush supports gay marriage...

    Bush’s mother, former first lady Laura Bush, has also said she supports gay marriage. In an interview last year, Bush described acceptance of same-sex marriage as “a generational thing” that “will come.”
    How long do you think it will take for the Republican party to realize that if they start getting in the 21st century on social issues, they would win more often. That if they moderate on social issues, but keep their conservative financial focus, they might win the white house?

    I hope that we keep seeing more Republicans become socially moderate and focus their conservatism on financial issues. Really that is what the R party should be aligned with. Not the fanatical church organizations.

    At least the Tea Party doesn't focus on social issues... does that mean the R party is ready to grow up?
    A common mistake people make when trying to design something completely foolproof is to underestimate the ingenuity of complete fools. -Douglas Adams

  4. #929
    Cyburbian Planit's avatar
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    Quote Originally posted by imaplanner View post
    The mormon thing is going to be interesting. My feeling is that the majority of GOP voters are not yet willing to support for President anyone who isn't a white christian. Maybe I am wrong.
    Well isn't Glenn Beck a mormon and people are following him blindly...just sayin'
    "Whatever beer I'm drinking, is better than the one I'm not." DMLW
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  5. #930
    Cyburbian mgk920's avatar
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    There was a near identical religious thing in the couple of years leading up to the election of Kennedy in 1960 - a candidate who just happened to be a *GASP* Catholic!



    Mike

  6. #931
    Cyburbian ofos's avatar
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    For the younger set, Mitt Romney's father George, was governor of Michigan back in the 60's and made a run at the presidency. Although everyone knew that he was a Mormon, it was his lack of campaign ability that hurt him the most, not his religion.
    “Death comes when memories of the past exceed the vision for the future.”

  7. #932
    Cyburbian btrage's avatar
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    Quote Originally posted by Planit View post
    Well isn't Glenn Beck a mormon and people are following him blindly...just sayin'
    I thought Beck converted to Catholicism?
    "I'm very important. I have many leather-bound books and my apartment smells of rich mahogany"

  8. #933
    Cyburbian TexanOkie's avatar
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    Quote Originally posted by btrage View post
    I thought Beck converted to Catholicism?
    Other way around. Catholic to LDS.

  9. #934
    Cyburbian imaplanner's avatar
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    Quote Originally posted by ofos View post
    For the younger set, Mitt Romney's father George, was governor of Michigan back in the 60's and made a run at the presidency. Although everyone knew that he was a Mormon, it was his lack of campaign ability that hurt him the most, not his religion.
    As we have become more accepting of other races, it seems we (Americans) have started to focus our negativity on other religions. I think whereas the mormon religion wasnt an issue 40 or 50 years ago, it would be now.
    Children in the back seat can cause accidents - and vice versa.

  10. #935
    Cyburbian kalimotxo's avatar
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    I think Huntsman's biggest liability in a Republican primary is the fact that he voluntarily worked with the Obama administration. It's not like he's quitting his post out of protest; he's quitting on ostensibly good terms to run against his former boss. It will be interesting to see how he maneuvers this one. If he engages in the typical anti-Obama polemicism, won't he come off as completely disingenuous? It seems like that might work against his primary appeal: being a national politician that isn't completely full of shit.

    Then again, Romney is basically running against his own health care ideas and he's still near the top of most primary polls. And if cynicism was enough to disqualify someone for politics, Washington D.C. would be a ghost town right now. Either way, Huntsman faces some pretty big hurdles in maintaining his so-called moderate appeal and surviving the gauntlet of ideologue-dominated Republican caucuses and primaries.
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  11. #936
    Cyburbian btrage's avatar
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    Quote Originally posted by TexanOkie View post
    Other way around. Catholic to LDS.
    Thank you.
    "I'm very important. I have many leather-bound books and my apartment smells of rich mahogany"

  12. #937
    OH....IO Hink's avatar
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    Quote Originally posted by kalimotxo View post
    I think Huntsman's biggest liability in a Republican primary is the fact that he voluntarily worked with the Obama administration. It's not like he's quitting his post out of protest; he's quitting on ostensibly good terms to run against his former boss. It will be interesting to see how he maneuvers this one. If he engages in the typical anti-Obama polemicism, won't he come off as completely disingenuous? It seems like that might work against his primary appeal: being a national politician that isn't completely full of shit.

    Then again, Romney is basically running against his own health care ideas and he's still near the top of most primary polls. And if cynicism was enough to disqualify someone for politics, Washington D.C. would be a ghost town right now. Either way, Huntsman faces some pretty big hurdles in maintaining his so-called moderate appeal and surviving the gauntlet of ideologue-dominated Republican caucuses and primaries.

    I agree the Primary process makes you skew right or left - just ask John McCain... what Maverick?

    I would like to believe that there are enough independents that went R that it might not play out that way... but I should know better.
    A common mistake people make when trying to design something completely foolproof is to underestimate the ingenuity of complete fools. -Douglas Adams

  13. #938
    Cyburbian Plus Whose Yur Planner's avatar
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    Quote Originally posted by imaplanner View post
    As we have become more accepting of other races, it seems we (Americans) have started to focus our negativity on other religions. I think whereas the mormon religion wasnt an issue 40 or 50 years ago, it would be now.
    That is the doing of the evangelicals. When the R's openly recruited the evangelicals, the result is a religious litimus test for the candidates. It's also driving the stand on some moral issues, abortion, etc. Oddly, it leaves out stands regarding greed, the love of money, etc. One of these days, the evangelicals are going to realize they have been played and the R's are going to be sol.
    When did I go from Luke Skywalker to Obi-Wan Kenobi?

  14. #939
    OH....IO Hink's avatar
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    Geez... speak of the devil...

    http://www.cnn.com/2011/US/02/01/ill....html?hpt=Sbin

    This is what makes me sick. There are people like this on earth...

    Illinois Family Institute, a non-profit group that says it wants to reaffirm marriage in the state, called the law "divisive."

    "Gov. Quinn should reject this anti-family bill and reject the efforts of the homosexual lobby to impose this highly contentious and controversial policy on the people of Illinois," said David E. Smith, executive director of the group.
    After June you can get a civil union in Illinois... make that California, Nevada, New Jersey, Oregon, and Washington as well as D.C.

    6 / 50 = 12% of our country. I would guess more than 12% of our country is gay. We still need some work, but at least we are progressing as a country.
    A common mistake people make when trying to design something completely foolproof is to underestimate the ingenuity of complete fools. -Douglas Adams

  15. #940
    Cyburbian imaplanner's avatar
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    Quote Originally posted by Hink_Planner View post
    Geez... speak of the devil...

    http://www.cnn.com/2011/US/02/01/ill....html?hpt=Sbin

    This is what makes me sick. There are people like this on earth...


    .
    Well, they have a point don't you think? It infringes on their right to hate gay people.
    Children in the back seat can cause accidents - and vice versa.

  16. #941
    Cyburbian
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    If South Carolina and Louisiana, two of the deepest Southern states with a long and ugly history of racism, can elect non-white Republicans to statewide offices, I doubt your statement is accurate.

    Charleston, the heart of the former Confederacy, just elected a black Republican congressman who defeated Strom Thurmond's son in the primary....


    Quote Originally posted by imaplanner View post
    The mormon thing is going to be interesting. My feeling is that the majority of GOP voters are not yet willing to support for President anyone who isn't a white christian. Maybe I am wrong.

  17. #942
    Cyburbian Duke Of Dystopia's avatar
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    Quote Originally posted by Whose Yur Planner View post
    That is the doing of the evangelicals. When the R's openly recruited the evangelicals, the result is a religious litimus test for the candidates. It's also driving the stand on some moral issues, abortion, etc. Oddly, it leaves out stands regarding greed, the love of money, ........
    sound science policy, basic education for everyone, health care, all 10 commandments, everything taught in the New Testament....
    I can't deliver UTOPIA, but I can create a HELL for you to LIVE in :)DoD:(

  18. #943
    Cyburbian biscuit's avatar
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    Quote Originally posted by PennPlanner View post
    If South Carolina and Louisiana, two of the deepest Southern states with a long and ugly history of racism, can elect non-white Republicans to statewide offices, I doubt your statement is accurate.
    The race issue probably isn't much of an issue for Indian-American's in the South. Especially when they are constantly going on about their conversion to Christianity and have names like Bobby and Nicki.

    Charleston, the heart of the former Confederacy, just elected a black Republican congressman who defeated Strom Thurmond's son in the primary....
    Considering that Charleston County is full of both African Americans and Republicans I wouldn't be too surprised. Race is really a non-issue as long as the candidate can prove that he or she hates liberalism as much as they love Jesus.

    Which brings me to Romney. His biggest issue is going to making it past the primaries. Being the middle-of-the-road former Governor of Massachusetts is not going to win him the votes of the Tea Party types - Just witness the new found hatred of Senator Too-Hotty-Scotty Brown as proof that there is no room for independent thought in the current Republican party. However, should Romney get the nomination, don't think that evangelical Protestants won't vote for a Morman when the alternative is a Kenyan/Muslim/Socialist/fascist usurper.

  19. #944
    Cyburbian otterpop's avatar
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    Quote Originally posted by imaplanner View post
    The mormon thing is going to be interesting. My feeling is that the majority of GOP voters are not yet willing to support for President anyone who isn't a white christian. Maybe I am wrong.
    Who is more white and Christian than Mormons? Sure they are not necessarily your mainstream Christian, but they are so white.

    Even the polygamous Mormons aren't that far off the pale. Good Christians like Newt Gingrich, Ronald Reagan, Glenn Beck and Rush Limbaugh had multiple wives - just not all at the same time.
    "I am very good at reading women, but I get into trouble for using the Braille method."

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  20. #945
    Cyburbian ursus's avatar
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    Quote Originally posted by otterpop View post
    Who is more white and Christian than Mormons? Sure they are not necessarily your mainstream Christian, but they are so white.
    "whiteness" notwithstanding, I think imaplanner is right; it will be an issue for many. Many, many people don't consider Mormons to be Christians. I don't get that, but they don't.
    "...I would never try to tick Hink off. He kinda intimidates me. He's quite butch, you know." - Maister

  21. #946
    Cyburbian Plus Whose Yur Planner's avatar
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    Quote Originally posted by ursus View post
    "whiteness" notwithstanding, I think imaplanner is right; it will be an issue for many. Many, many people don't consider Mormons to be Christians. I don't get that, but they don't.
    Basic theology. It boils down to what you think Christ's role is in salvation and who you think He is. Fair warning-I am an evangelical Christian (Southern Baptist) and will present that view.
    When did I go from Luke Skywalker to Obi-Wan Kenobi?

  22. #947
    Off-topic:
    I was youtubing earlier for some background noise [AWB: Pick Up the Pieces live at Montreux, 1977 -- it's TOFB's fault!] and the suggested video was "...and I'm a Mormon". It appears to be some sort of LDS campaign to humanize Mormonism. I did notice there are competing voices, including one titled "...I'm an Ex-Mormon" and another "I'm a rock ... and I'm Mormon". Didn't have time to look at it beyond that, though.


    Personally, I couldn't give one whit what a person's religion is. Can he/she lead? Is he/she honest? Do I agree with many of this person's ideas? So, yeah, I'd have no problem voting for a Mormon. I apparently already voted for an Islamist.
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  23. #948
    Cyburbian ursus's avatar
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    Quote Originally posted by Whose Yur Planner View post
    Basic theology. It boils down to what you think Christ's role is in salvation and who you think He is. Fair warning-I am an evangelical Christian (Southern Baptist) and will present that view.
    Fair enough,
    "...I would never try to tick Hink off. He kinda intimidates me. He's quite butch, you know." - Maister

  24. #949
    Cyburbian imaplanner's avatar
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    Quote Originally posted by PennPlanner View post
    If South Carolina and Louisiana, two of the deepest Southern states with a long and ugly history of racism, can elect non-white Republicans to statewide offices, I doubt your statement is accurate.

    Charleston, the heart of the former Confederacy, just elected a black Republican congressman who defeated Strom Thurmond's son in the primary....
    My statement was more speculation. You have a point. But statewide office and the presidency are two different animals. Maybe I am wrong.
    Children in the back seat can cause accidents - and vice versa.

  25. #950
    Cyburbian
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    Excuses, excuses.

    In the Maryland senate election back in 2006 when Michael Steele was the Republican candidate, he won every single Republican county, including the heavily conservative, heavily white, redneck/hunting/fishing/shooting, economically depressed western Maryland counties. He also won all the Eastern Shore counties. He won the usual exurban, heavily white counties outside the inner ring of the Baltimore suburbs.

    I won't claim all Republicans are color blind these days (nor do I claim all Democrats are color blind). The party is only inhibited by the small number of black Republicans and the even tinier pool of black Republican politicians. Republicans have successfully fielded Hispanic candidates in the southwest and Florida.

    Quote Originally posted by biscuit View post
    The race issue probably isn't much of an issue for Indian-American's in the South. Especially when they are constantly going on about their conversion to Christianity and have names like Bobby and Nicki.


    Considering that Charleston County is full of both African Americans and Republicans I wouldn't be too surprised. Race is really a non-issue as long as the candidate can prove that he or she hates liberalism as much as they love Jesus.

    Which brings me to Romney. His biggest issue is going to making it past the primaries. Being the middle-of-the-road former Governor of Massachusetts is not going to win him the votes of the Tea Party types - Just witness the new found hatred of Senator Too-Hotty-Scotty Brown as proof that there is no room for independent thought in the current Republican party. However, should Romney get the nomination, don't think that evangelical Protestants won't vote for a Morman when the alternative is a Kenyan/Muslim/Socialist/fascist usurper.
    Yes, you are wrong.

    If a deep south state can elect two non-whites to the governorships, one can safely assume states with a less racist heritage would be even more receptive.

    Quote Originally posted by imaplanner View post
    My statement was more speculation. You have a point. But statewide office and the presidency are two different animals. Maybe I am wrong.

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