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Thread: The NEVERENDING Political Discussion Thread

  1. #1726
    Quote Originally posted by Blide View post

    It honestly amazes me how Republicans are deliberately shooting themselves in the foot with social issues. Mitch Daniels had it right when he said they should put social issues on the back burner but unsurprisingly he got spurned for that comment.
    Daniels talked the talk but didn't walk it. See various federal lawsuits in re: funding for planned parenthood, immigration, right-to-work, ad nauseum. All signed by the Governor ...
    Last edited by Gedunker; 12 Mar 2012 at 3:41 PM.
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  2. #1727
    Cyburbian wahday's avatar
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    Quote Originally posted by Bear Up North View post
    If I was a card-carrying Democrat I would be seriously worried about this.....

    If Mit beats Obama in the presidential election AND the economy continues to spin in the solid/positive direction then in 4 years, 8 years, 12 years, the Rs will be able to point at 6-7 years of solid economic news (pre-Obama), 4 years of stagnation (Obama), and 4-12 years of solid economic news (R presidents). That could be a recipe for R control of government for many years. This long-term thought is with an assumption that the economy is going in the right direction and will continue to improve, no matter who is elected in November, 2012.

    JMO.

    Bear

    EDIT: Important edit.....I am not implying that the bad economy is the fault of Obama. Its' source lies in many policies, decisions, and with both parties.
    Well, I don't necessarily agree that it will go down that way, but you raise an important point which is that there is often a significant time gap between the enactment of new policies or legislation and the actual results of those changes. This seems to be something completely absent from public discourse as people just lob bombs at whoever is in charge and say they screwed up. It’s a bit childish in my mind, like the way my kids sound when they say they are hungry and then immediately complain that there isn’t anything to eat. Jesum! Can you let me finish making dinner before you start complaining? These things take time!

    This all makes it terribly difficult for us to identify “what works” and “what doesn’t” which is further compounded by the political forces that are so eager to point to this or that idea and say its terrible or great simply based on which party it came from. Shouldn’t we be actually, objectively tracking the impacts if different policies and legislation to determine, using some pre-designed measurement, if they are working?

    I think another problem with this whole dynamic as it relates to the election cycle is that it pushes politicians to pursue short-term fixes rather than long-term sustainability. Because sometimes the more fiscally responsible approach will not yield benefits up front. But people are not patient and politicians want to get reelected.
    The purpose of life is a life of purpose

  3. #1728
    Cyburbian Planit's avatar
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    Quote Originally posted by wahday View post
    Well, I think another problem with this whole dynamic as it relates to the election cycle is that it pushes politicians to pursue short-term fixes rather than long-term sustainability. Because sometimes the more fiscally responsible approach will not yield benefits up front. But people are not patient and politicians want to get reelected.
    THE first job of any politician is to get re-elected.
    "Whatever beer I'm drinking, is better than the one I'm not." DMLW
    "Budweiser sells a product they reflectively insist on calling beer." John Oliver

  4. #1729
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    Article: Is foot-in-mouth disease always fatal to campaigns?

    .Though some gaffes take awhile to seep into the popular culture, the potential for humiliation is instantaneous
    Which one is your favorite ?
    Oddball
    Why don't you knock it off with them negative waves?
    Why don't you dig how beautiful it is out here?
    Why don't you say something righteous and hopeful for a change?
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    Broke parts take a little longer, though.
    From Electric Horseman (1979)

  5. #1730
    Cyburbian Plus
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    This is interesting stuff from another forum that I frequent, I'll have to check out the validity of it later, but wanted to post it here first, simply because of how interesting it is.

    Apparently this is from one of Reagan's diaries from 2002 that's been recently released.

    Although at the time I felt I could more effectively get my ideas of a collective philosophy accomplished as a Republican more so than a Democrat, I realize now that the Republican Party was indeed the party of purely individual rights, not the Democrats. When I worked as the president of the Screen Actors Guild I understood the need for people to stick together for the greater good to get their goals accomplished. I admired other great presidents of the past such as Franklin Roosevelt, and Dwight Eisenhower who knew that in order for the nation to thrive, we must all thrive. I am also saddened that the Republican party of today thinks I wanted God in the White House and to rule the nation. That is not true at all, after I was nearly assassinated I wanted God more in my own personal life. I acknowledged that I was to be here for a reason and serve him and my nation together, but they always stayed separate in my mind just as in the Constitution. The Republican party today merely just uses God as a means to get votes, and I don’t believe Jesus would want to be used as a marketing tool. I regret my decision to become Republican and if I had to do it all over again I would have remained in the Democratic party and ran on their ticket. They seem to instill the core values I believe in, such as a collective philosophy. I thought for a while the Democrats left me, because we used to agree on so much, it turns out that I did indeed leave them, and I would do anything to take it all back. Now as I sit here as an old man, I can only imagine, “what if…”
    This too about W

    “I just can’t bring myself to vote for that kid, I knew what he was like when I had his dad as my vice president, and I couldn’t allow for a man like that to lead the nation.”
    Assuming this is legit, it is very interesting stuff

  6. #1731
    Cyburbian Tarf's avatar
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    Quote Originally posted by ddomin4360 View post
    This is interesting stuff from another forum that I frequent, I'll have to check out the validity of it later, but wanted to post it here first, simply because of how interesting it is.

    Apparently this is from one of Reagan's diaries from 2002 that's been recently released.



    This too about W



    Assuming this is legit, it is very interesting stuff


    It's not legitimate.

    According to the web site where I just found that supposed quote from Reagan's diary:

    Quote Originally posted by Free Wood Post
    Satire Disclaimer
    March 7, 2012
    By Sarah Wood

    Free Wood Post is a news and political satire web publication, which may or may not use real names, often in semi-real or mostly fictitious ways. All news articles contained within FreeWoodPost.com are fiction, and presumably fake news.

    Any resemblance to the truth is purely coincidental, except for all references to politicians and/or celebrities, in which case they are based on real people, but still based almost entirely in fiction.

    FreeWoodPost.com is intended for a mature, sophisticated, and discerning audience.
    In the beginning the Universe was created. This has made a lot of people very angry and been widely regarded as a bad move. (Douglas Adams)

  7. #1732
    OH....IO Hink's avatar
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    It is looking like the individual mandate will be overturned. Not sure how this is going to affect the whole Affordable Healthcare Act, but it is a big blow to Obama and the Democrats. If there is no mandate, there is little value in the insurance pool. I would imagine that today, the justices will note that the whole Act shouldn't be thrown out, but the most important part looks like it might get the heave-ho.

    Not sure what I think about this. I have read every article, journal, and opinion on this topic, as it effects my family tremendously... and yet I still don't know if it is better to have the Act in its entirety or not. I guess it is like Tax reform... is it better to take it a step at a time, or just make the jump completely?
    A common mistake people make when trying to design something completely foolproof is to underestimate the ingenuity of complete fools. -Douglas Adams

  8. #1733
    Cyburbian
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    I don't think things are as bad as they appear with the individual mandate. Obviously the Justices are skeptical about the slippery slope the individual mandate could create but it seems they recognize the importance of healthcare and it's unique market characteristics. I honestly think they'll try to find a way to make sure the mandate stands while not allowing it be applicable to other things. If they're unable to find a way to do that, it won't stand though.

  9. #1734
    Cyburbian imaplanner's avatar
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    Without the individual mandate, health care reform will never effectively be accomplished using for-profit insurers. If the individual mandate is struck down, I think we see a much more concerted push for a single payer system.
    Children in the back seat can cause accidents - and vice versa.

  10. #1735
    Cyburbian Plus Whose Yur Planner's avatar
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    Quote Originally posted by imaplanner View post
    Without the individual mandate, health care reform will never effectively be accomplished using for-profit insurers. If the individual mandate is struck down, I think we see a much more concerted push for a single payer system.
    While I would like to believe that, I don't think it will happen. When the Court's decision comes down, it will be the end of healthcare reform.
    When did I go from Luke Skywalker to Obi-Wan Kenobi?

  11. #1736
    OH....IO Hink's avatar
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    No our political / news system isn't broken at all...

    “I want to set the record straight,” Hannity said on his Fox News program. “For a few weeks we have been pursuing an interview with Mr. Zimmerman to give him a chance to tell his side of the story. Now yesterday I was contacted by an individual that we in fact believe was George Zimmerman. He reached out to me, we spoke on the phone about his case, and I agreed not to report on the contents of that conversation. That’s it.”
    http://www.eurweb.com/2012/04/sean-h...an-phone-call/

    Now this guy thinks that Hannity is a good person to talk with? Is it because Hannity has been so strongly against any call for justice, even if at some point he is convicted... which looks like sooner than later...

    http://news.blogs.cnn.com/2012/04/11...man/?hpt=hp_c1


    Why would you go to a blowhard instead of 60 minutes, Barbara Walters, Oprah? I mean seriously.
    A common mistake people make when trying to design something completely foolproof is to underestimate the ingenuity of complete fools. -Douglas Adams

  12. #1737
    Cyburbian
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    Probably because Fox News has been more sympathetic to Zimmerman compared to other networks. As to why Hannity in particular, who knows.

  13. #1738
    Chairman of the bored Maister's avatar
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    So, the gov. of Wisconsin strikes down their equal pay law.

    http://www.nydailynews.com/news/poli...icle-1.1059872

    Interesting theory...the reason women earn less money than their male counterparts is because money is less important to them.

    During the press conference this same senator told the following joke:
    Q. How do you fix a woman's watch?
    A. You don't. The oven has a clock!
    People will miss that it once meant something to be Southern or Midwestern. It doesn't mean much now, except for the climate. The question, “Where are you from?” doesn't lead to anything odd or interesting. They live somewhere near a Gap store, and what else do you need to know? - Garrison Keillor

  14. #1739
    Cyburbian Veloise's avatar
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    "I guess I'm not speaking in little enough words for you to understand."

    Virginia House Speaker Bill Howell (R) in a discussion with ProgressVA Executive Director Anna Scholl, talking about the American Legislative Exchange Council (ALEC).



    "I'm a smart girl, actually. I went to the University of Virginia; I benefited from public education; I think words with multiple syllables would be just fine for me."

  15. #1740
    Cyburbian imaplanner's avatar
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    Quote Originally posted by Maister View post
    So, the gov. of Wisconsin strikes down their equal pay law.

    http://www.nydailynews.com/news/poli...icle-1.1059872

    Interesting theory...the reason women earn less money than their male counterparts is because money is less important to them.

    During the press conference this same senator told the following joke:
    Q. How do you fix a woman's watch?
    A. You don't. The oven has a clock!
    Holy smokes! He didn't really tell that joke did he?

    But you know, the real reason why women are fleeing the republican party is because they really don't know much.

    http://www.rawstory.com/rs/2012/04/1...-other-people/
    Children in the back seat can cause accidents - and vice versa.

  16. #1741
    Cyburbian Plus Whose Yur Planner's avatar
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    I think the nut jobs and wackos have always been out there spouting their nonsense. It just happening out out of thw way places or quietly. With the advent of instant news that goes viral, the nuttiness gets spread throughouth the world in no time flat. That being said, if the R's aren't careful, they are going alienate and piss off enough people that their tent is going to be awfully small.

    Do you think there is a connection between this debate concerning women and the rights and the throw back to the early 60's shows/movies? I'm thinking Mad Men and the most recent X-Men movie.
    When did I go from Luke Skywalker to Obi-Wan Kenobi?

  17. #1742
    Cyburbian btrage's avatar
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    Quote Originally posted by Whose Yur Planner View post
    I think the nut jobs and wackos have always been out there spouting their nonsense. It just happening out out of thw way places or quietly. With the advent of instant news that goes viral, the nuttiness gets spread throughouth the world in no time flat. That being said, if the R's aren't careful, they are going alienate and piss off enough people that their tent is going to be awfully small.

    Do you think there is a connection between this debate concerning women and the rights and the throw back to the early 60's shows/movies? I'm thinking Mad Men and the most recent X-Men movie.
    Not at all. It's because the GOP refuses to moderate its stances on social issues that affect women. It's just more pronounced right now because it's a Presidential election year.
    "I'm very important. I have many leather-bound books and my apartment smells of rich mahogany"

  18. #1743
    Cyburbian Planit's avatar
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    Very interesting political season:

    One side of the mouth says, there should be smaller and more limited government.
    Other side of mouth is saying the government should pass laws that tell us who we can marry and if we can get pregnant.
    "Whatever beer I'm drinking, is better than the one I'm not." DMLW
    "Budweiser sells a product they reflectively insist on calling beer." John Oliver

  19. #1744
    Cyburbian Plus
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    What is with this "Mommy War" ?
    Oddball
    Why don't you knock it off with them negative waves?
    Why don't you dig how beautiful it is out here?
    Why don't you say something righteous and hopeful for a change?
    From Kelly's Heroes (1970)


    Are you sure you're not hurt ?
    No. Just some parts wake up faster than others.
    Broke parts take a little longer, though.
    From Electric Horseman (1979)

  20. #1745
    Cyburbian
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    Republicans are trying to attribute what one low level Democrat talking head said to the stance of the entire party. It's one thing when a talking head says something, it's quite another when a Presidential candidate or elected official says something...

    Anyway what she said, while poorly worded, was not really incorrect. She may be a hard working mother but Ann Romney is pretty detached from the economic realities most mothers face.

  21. #1746
    Cyburbian Veloise's avatar
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    Quote Originally posted by Blide View post
    ...She may be a hard working mother but Ann Romney is pretty detached from the economic realities most mothers face.
    Apparently the Romneys were renters while Mittens was in grad school, and they had to sell some of their stock holdings to make ends meet.

    I want to see Ann's W-2s!

  22. #1747
    Cyburbian imaplanner's avatar
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    Quote Originally posted by Planit View post
    Very interesting political season:

    One side of the mouth says, there should be smaller and more limited government.
    Other side of mouth is saying the government should pass laws that tell us who we can marry and if we can get pregnant.
    I think they may be on to something with this whole anti-holding hands thing in Tenessee

    http://www.wmctv.com/story/17353757/...exual-activity
    Children in the back seat can cause accidents - and vice versa.

  23. #1748
    Cyburbian ofos's avatar
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    Quote Originally posted by Blide View post
    Republicans are trying to attribute what one low level Democrat talking head said to the stance of the entire party. It's one thing when a talking head says something, it's quite another when a Presidential candidate or elected official says something...

    Anyway what she said, while poorly worded, was not really incorrect. She may be a hard working mother but Ann Romney is pretty detached from the economic realities most mothers face.
    Quote Originally posted by Veloise View post
    Apparently the Romneys were renters while Mittens was in grad school, and they had to sell some of their stock holdings to make ends meet.

    I want to see Ann's W-2s!
    Maybe I've missed something, just what office is Ann Romney running for? Much ado about nothing.
    “Death comes when memories of the past exceed the vision for the future.”

  24. #1749
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    Quote Originally posted by imaplanner View post
    I think they may be on to something with this whole anti-holding hands thing in Tenessee

    http://www.wmctv.com/story/17353757/...exual-activity
    Will this be the next TOPIC
    Oddball
    Why don't you knock it off with them negative waves?
    Why don't you dig how beautiful it is out here?
    Why don't you say something righteous and hopeful for a change?
    From Kelly's Heroes (1970)


    Are you sure you're not hurt ?
    No. Just some parts wake up faster than others.
    Broke parts take a little longer, though.
    From Electric Horseman (1979)

  25. #1750
    Cyburbian
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    Quote Originally posted by ofos View post
    Maybe I've missed something, just what office is Ann Romney running for? Much ado about nothing.
    Yes and no. While I agree this particular issue is much ado about nothing, she is putting herself out there to humanize Mitt. When she's out stumping for her husband on the campaign trail, she is inevitably going to draw criticism just as Michelle Obama does. It may not be fair or justified but what she does reflects on her husband.

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