Neither project is a lifestyle center. They are just well designed commerical space in a compact, walkable downtown setting with some trendy stores. How hard is that to understand?
Neither project is a lifestyle center. They are just well designed commerical space in a compact, walkable downtown setting with some trendy stores. How hard is that to understand?
Brotip #2418 - know when it's time to switch from being "the little engine that could" to the "little engine that said, 'f*ck it'"
A good example of a "Lifestyle Center" would be the Shoppes at Grand Prairie in Peoria, which is nearby to me. Open layout, stil with several outlying anchors, with inward facing stores but outdoors with areas between having a number of pedestrian streetscape elements.
http://www.theshoppesatgrandprairie.com/
"When life gives you lemons, just say 'No thanks'." - Henry Rollins
Here is more information about the Shoppes @ Grand Prairie from the About Us section of their website:Originally posted by Rygor
The Shoppes at Grand Prairie is an open-air lifestyle center and is Peoria's newest and most unique retail destination anchored by Bergner's, Dick's Sporting Goods, Jillian's, Borders and Old Navy. The tenant mix includes more than 70 specialty stores and restaurants, many of which are exclusive to the Peoria market. Stores include Coldwater Creek, White House Black Market, Brighton Collectibles, Jos. A. Bank, Johnny’s Italian Steakhouse, and much more.
The Shoppes at Grand Prairie's architectural design is characterized by a Georgian Revival style. An elegant courtyard and pedestrian promenade is landscaped with shade trees, native shrubs and colorful seasonal flowers. Amenities include street lamps, park-like seating areas, water features and children's play areas
IMO, I have yet to find anything that distinguishes a "lifestyle center' from an outdoor shopping mall. For me a true "lifestyle center" is a place where I can walk from my home to the center and do my typical shopping. There was a place in North Carolina called Birkdale Village , in the northern suburbs of Charlotte that was similar to this. It had a new urbanist neighborhood behind the shopping area. The shopping area was connected to the neighborhood by trails and all of the stores had bicycle parking. The shopping area included restaurants, clothing stores, a pharmacy and more. The only thing missing was a grocery store, but I believe there is one within biking distance.
Off Topic: When I first moved to Central IL, I was pleasantly surprised to find the Shoppes in a rather small metro area. The center is doing quite well and is almost always full when I am in the area.
Last edited by rcgplanner; 22 Apr 2010 at 3:23 PM.
Out of curiosity, are their any stores you found in a lifestyle center that you don't see in a regular enclosed mall? Other than the big box stores and maybe pottery barn I don't see any special clothing stores like how outlet malls only have calvin klein, ann klein, nike, and other factory stores.
I was just thinking about the malls in my region of California-the central coast. They seem to be surviving pretty well. Only one mall is recovering.
San Luis Obispo County
~Pismo Beach: Pismo Beach Outlets (outlet mall)
Santa Cruz County:
~Capitola: Capitola Mall (enclosed mall)
Monterey County:
~Salinas: Northridge Mall (enclosed mall)
~Monterey: Del Monte Center (lifestyle center)
~Carmel: Carmel Plaza (lifestyle center)
Santa Barbara County:
~Santa Maria: Santa Maria Town Center (enclosed mall)
~Santa Barbara: Paseo Nuevo (open-air mall)
~Santa Barbara: La Cumbre Plaza (open-air mall)
The mall in Santa Maria is trying to become a hybrid center mall where it combines lifestyle center and enclosed mall. There are building a Regal Cinemas and a new food court and hopefully will attract more national clothing store chains.
Last edited by urban19; 23 Apr 2010 at 3:17 PM.
You're pretty much correct. I don't see a lot of differences besides the name. Oakbrook Center and Old Orchard near Chicago are two outdoor malls that are 40ish years old but don't have a whole lot to distinguish them from today's "lifestyle centers".
"When life gives you lemons, just say 'No thanks'." - Henry Rollins
Coming from Sydney, malls or shopping centres as well call them, are popping up all over the city. They are very attractive places for people to shop and for upmarket retailers. If anything, it is the retailers outside the shopping centres who are doing it tough, as the customers bypass their small niche shops for the popular shopping centres which have it all.
From a planning perspective, shopping centres are the future of shopping. I know that Melbourne has retail neighbourhood shops along busy roads which work very well, but people naturally prefer to have all their favourite shops in the one location. Additionally, shopping centres, especially those operated by Westfield are integrating excellent designs.
Competition is the factor keeping shopping centres successful. In a recent post I have summarised a proposal by the State Government to have the planning system influence retail competition. View the post here;
http://www.theplanningboardroom.net/...opment-in-nsw/
Are open-air malls and lifestyle centers pretty much the same thing these days?
I think the lifestyle center and open-air mall is the new mall format that is working well.
I do think enclosed malls where areas have harsh weather conditions will still be needed.
Common stores found with lifestyle centers seem to be natural food markets, Barnes and Nobles or Borders, upscale and mall based clothing stores, movie theaters, and outdoor food courts.
Muskegon, Michigan (pop. 40,000), has experienced the downtown mall and the effects of a declining market. What that community did, in response to a declining market, was remarkable. The mall was constructed in the mid-to late 1970s (the city enclosed a portion of downtown which included some existing buildings to create the mall). The mall was successful for approximately 20 years, at which time the market declined so much that the mall finally closed in the late 90s and was tore down in the early 2000s. A new 175,000 sq. foot mall was built south of downtown, near a highway interchange (Int. 96 and US 31). The outlots surrounding the new mall are developed and there is a hustle of activity going on day in and day out.
The City of Muskegon, along with the downtown development authority, reconstructed the streets and sidewalks on the site of the old Muskegon Mall downtown, back to the way they were before the mall was built. Next came a new Central Fire Station, a new Chamber of Commerce building with leasable space on the ground floor, and a couple of other new office buildings.
The problem, in my mind, is not the decline of the enclosed mall as growth and decline are part of the free market system; rather, it is the response (or lack thereof in some communities) from the community to address the declining property after the mall closes. Viable commercial and public space is being lost to dilapidated, out-dated, commercial shopping centers while people decide what to do with it. The City of Muskegon formulated a plan to address the redevelopment of the mall property downtown and is taking aggressive steps in revitalizing downtown.
This is very similar to the case in downtown Green Bay, WI that I posted a couple of years ago in a similar thread The fragility of the traditional enclosed mall shopping center. The city is now working on plans to remove the defunct mall and restore the street grid.
I agree, too, public tastes and shopping patterns change over time - first it was downtown 'main streets', then suburban malls (1960s through 1990s), now it is 'power centers', Big Box™ stores and a slight trend back towards the traditional storefronts.
Mike
JWR brought up the Muskegon Mall. I took a trip there around 1990 and found it to be bustling. It was really odd to have an indoor mall complete with anchors and have several old storefronts. Most of the stores around it were torn down and used for parking lots. I have seen dead indoor downtown malls in many Ontario Communities as well that probably had great intentions, but never succeded. These can range from quite small cities such as Amherstburg and Sarnia to large ones such as Hamilton or London.
The story of the mall's decline is tied to competing developers, jurisdictions, and market forces. There seems to be some futility in making such an investment, but yet if you don't try, how are you going to save your downtown?
We hope for better things; it will arise from the ashes - Fr Gabriel Richard 1805
Live, work, play, gamble, drink, eat, relax......that's what it takes to have a lifestyle center.
http://www.thedistrictatgvr.com/?gcl...FQ9ZiAodWwxG-Q
On the ground, protecting the Cyburbia Shove since 2004.
I stand corrected - the new mall (The Lakes Mall) contains 645,677 sq. ft of gross leasable area.
There is another mix-used center going into downtown San Luis Obispo like the Court Street center, but larger. The project is called Chinatown where historic chinatown used to be.
http://www.slocity.org/communitydeve...alAddendum.pdf
http://www.sanluisobispo.com/2009/11...oks-great.html
It includes 51,000 sq. ft. of retail, condos, a hotel, restaurant, and offices.
Would this center be considered a lifestyle center?
I think the Court Street Center is a lifestyle center and it's similar to the Napa Town Center.
http://www.stronghayden.com/media/Do...20-%202-10.pdf
Is it just me or is a total of 51,000 square feet not big enough to be even mentioned as a Lifestyle Center?
We hope for better things; it will arise from the ashes - Fr Gabriel Richard 1805
Just following how the thread has evolved into questioning what constitutes a lifestyle center has me recalling a presentation at the Rocky Mountain Land Use Institute a few years back. The presenter who I seem to recall was a planner/consultant that helped develop several lifestyle centers stressed that beyond the design of the center itself, equally important is whether certain tenants were present. If you don't have a Crate & Barrel and/or Pottery Barn as well as certain other retailers, you don't have a lifestyle center, regardless of the design and function of the mall itself.
Seemed kinda snobbish to me. Then again I don't ever recall seeing a Family Dollar at a Mizner Park in Boca Raton, or a Big Lots at a Fashion Valley in San Diego. General Growth Properties has an indoor mall here that has passed on an offer to have a Bingo parlor as a tenant, despite the mall being half empty.
There is Pottery Barn, Talbots, Chicos, and Sephora in the mix-used center I am talking about. But I guess it would only be considered a mix-used center.
There is a center under-development in Atascadero called Colony Square. I am not sure if Raf is familiar with it. It will have a 10 screen movie theater and 80,000 sq. ft. of retail and restaurants. What stores will be there is still in question. The movie theater is the only place that will be open. It opens at the end of the year.
Check out ICSC's definitions of various centers. Here's a link - Shopping Center Definitions
www.sitephocus.com ...get the picture
Here's another article on defintions. To be a lifestyle it needs at least 50,000 sq. ft of upscale national stores. I think the figuration of the center is important too. As said before it needs to be in a parking lot setting.
http://www.icsc.org/srch/sct/sct0402/page59.php
It is not a lifestyle center. At build out, it will hopefully be a good mixed use anchor (especially when the 80 residential units are built). The developer is still in negotiations with tenants, however i do know a few, but alas, we have signed a confidentiality agreement with the developer to keep tight lipped on our economic development activities. There will be tenants ready to go when the theater opens in november.
Brotip #2418 - know when it's time to switch from being "the little engine that could" to the "little engine that said, 'f*ck it'"
This document-
http://www.atascadero.org/media/rede...reAnalysis.pdf
states that the center is a mix-used lifestyle center. All though, if the center doesn't have any mall based clothing stores then it is not a lifestyle center. I talked to the Architect Thom Jess and he said it is a lifestyle center. Can you at least answer me if the center will have stores like PacSun or Coldwater Creek?
I really think that you're on the wrong page. Isn't there a mall fan page somewhere out there? Planners will in general not know (or care) what non-anchors will be put into a shopping center.
In terms of what they call it, its all marketing. The bottom line is... "is it good for the community or not?"
We hope for better things; it will arise from the ashes - Fr Gabriel Richard 1805
What part of confeditionality do we not understand? The broker and the City's OED are in contract negotations. Enough said. As for the architect calling it a lifestyle center, developers, or whomever is bankrolling a project will call it what they want to market the project and get it leased or sold. Ask any real estate agent or developer, it is all about marketing. What comes out of their mouths can pretty much never be trusted.
DP is right on. Really, as an aspiring planner, you really should drop this whole issue of "name brand" of retail for the community and ask yourself, is the development good for my community or employer as a whole. There is always a positive and a negative to a development project (think wal-mart i.e. good for residents because it gives them another shopping option and great for a muni for tax revenue, but bad for mom and pop shops and bad for the enviornment due to AQ issues and others). Rather than concern yourself with "when will X get a lifestyle center" step back and ask, what is a better economic driver for my community based on demographics and how can i build or incorporate my community around future projects to move it forward.
Brotip #2418 - know when it's time to switch from being "the little engine that could" to the "little engine that said, 'f*ck it'"
Well, yeah I want a Wal-Mart that will bring in revenue and help restore the city. I do want a theater will revitalize downtown, but I also want a mall me and my friends can hang at and a place to get clothes closer. It's a pain to drive to Pismo or SLO for clothes. Something closer would be nice. I don't actually shop in SLO at much at all because their clothing stores are pricey and the stores are for the upper middle class and wealthy college students. I don't see how the Colony Square is not a lifestyle center. Most are anchored by a movie theater, it has at least 50,000sq. ft. of retail, and is designed as an urban village and has a parking lot. The only problem would be if the 80,000 sq. ft. of retail is mostly restaurants and local clothing stores. The 50,000 sq. ft must be national speciality stores.
The term "lifestyle center" is a marketing term mostly. Lifestyle centers will have similar features, dedicated store entrances, enhanced landscaping and architecture and more outdoor gathering places. It is basically a cleaned up big-box retail center. The sooner you get this idea of brands and store names out of your mind the better. A lifestyle center may look nicer but isn't really any better or worse than many big-box retail centers. A lifestyle center doesn't need as much land as a big-box center, but it still causes similar types of traffic and environmental issues. Lifestyle center has become a replacement term for the m-word, mall.
Here is a link from USA Today in 2007 that had a list of lifestyle centers at the time.
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