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Thread: Future of American malls

  1. #51
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    Quote Originally posted by rcgplanner View post
    The term "lifestyle center" is a marketing term mostly. Lifestyle centers will have similar features, dedicated store entrances, enhanced landscaping and architecture and more outdoor gathering places. It is basically a cleaned up big-box retail center. The sooner you get this idea of brands and store names out of your mind the better. A lifestyle center may look nicer but isn't really any better or worse than many big-box retail centers. A lifestyle center doesn't need as much land as a big-box center, but it still causes similar types of traffic and environmental issues. Lifestyle center has become a replacement term for the m-word, mall.

    Here is a link from USA Today in 2007 that had a list of lifestyle centers at the time.
    Yeah, but you have The Lab in Costa Mesa and Carmel Plaza in Carmel that are small open-air malls or lifestyle centers. And there are centers smaller than these two. And if you just say a lifestyle center is a big-box center or mall made nicer than Madonna Plaza in SLO could be that. It has a public gathering area, Sears, Men's Warehourse, Motherhood Maternity, One Way Boardshop, nice architecture, Borders, Ralph's, and other big box stores that make a glorified strip mall.

  2. #52
    Cyburbian ursus's avatar
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    I keep reading this, it's like a traffic accident and I can't stop looking! I'm not sure that I understand the argument. As others have already said this is a marketing term. There might be so many names for the various and subtly different developments that it would make your head spin - I try to use terms (at least with my public and planning commissioners) that are more generic: project, development, site, shopping center, etc. You could argue with somebody for days about whether something is a "grocery store" or a "market" or a "soft-goods retailer"...the bottom line is you need to understand or state WHY you have an interest in pinning down a definition. Are you trying to put it into an ordinance? Are certain zones only going to allow "Lifestyle Centers"? Until then your issues will just continue to be noise. Sorry for a long post.
    "...I would never try to tick Hink off. He kinda intimidates me. He's quite butch, you know." - Maister

  3. #53
    Cyburbian rcgplanner's avatar
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    Quote Originally posted by ursus View post
    I keep reading this, it's like a traffic accident and I can't stop looking! I'm not sure that I understand the argument. As others have already said this is a marketing term. There might be so many names for the various and subtly different developments that it would make your head spin - I try to use terms (at least with my public and planning commissioners) that are more generic: project, development, site, shopping center, etc. You could argue with somebody for days about whether something is a "grocery store" or a "market" or a "soft-goods retailer"...the bottom line is you need to understand or state WHY you have an interest in pinning down a definition. Are you trying to put it into an ordinance? Are certain zones only going to allow "Lifestyle Centers"? Until then your issues will just continue to be noise. Sorry for a long post.
    As ursus said, why are you trying to pin down a firm definition urban19? What is the point of your posts? You seem to think the only world is within SLO County? As many have said on here once you get the idea of brand names and store names out of your mind the better. As a land-use planner you may be asked to look at what impact a grocery store has on the surrounding area, it doesn't matter whether it is Ralph's or a Kroger or a generic supermarket, you are looking at how is the best way to incorporate the development with the surrounding area and how it meets the local ordinances. Once again it doesn't matter what the brand name is, as a planner you are looking at land use types.

  4. #54
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    Quote Originally posted by rcgplanner View post
    As ursus said, why are you trying to pin down a firm definition urban19? What is the point of your posts? You seem to think the only world is within SLO County? As many have said on here once you get the idea of brand names and store names out of your mind the better. As a land-use planner you may be asked to look at what impact a grocery store has on the surrounding area, it doesn't matter whether it is Ralph's or a Kroger or a generic supermarket, you are looking at how is the best way to incorporate the development with the surrounding area and how it meets the local ordinances. Once again it doesn't matter what the brand name is, as a planner you are looking at land use types.
    Okay, I get the point. The brand name of the shopping center doesn't matter. How it bests helps the community is the point. So if SLO only has mix-used centers with upscale clothing stores in the historic downtown shopping district, then that's best for SLO because it best matches the community. Court Street Center has the old brick look to match into the background and the court street level has a bunch of resturaunts. The plaza level has Sephora's, Chico's, Taste, Talbots, Pottery Barn, Banana Republic, and Abercrombie and Fitch to give local college and upper middle class consumers more places to shop. The third level offers more offices for local businesses. The Chinatown Center offers more college and upper middle class stores for local consumers and the plaza level has more retail and offices. Garden Street Terraces and Chinatown also bring in more condos and hotels to increase sales in downtown. There also going to building a public art statue and adding art decals along downtown to beautify the area from the city collecting an art tax from developers who rather include art in the shopping center or pay into the art account of SLO.

  5. #55
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    Quote Originally posted by urban19 View post
    Okay, I get the point. The brand name of the shopping center doesn't matter. How it bests helps the community is the point. So if SLO only has mix-used centers with upscale clothing stores in the historic downtown shopping district, then that's best for SLO because it best matches the community. Court Street Center has the old brick look to match into the background and the court street level has a bunch of resturaunts. The plaza level has Sephora's, Chico's, Taste, Talbots, Pottery Barn, Banana Republic, and Abercrombie and Fitch to give local college and upper middle class consumers more places to shop. The third level offers more offices for local businesses. The Chinatown Center offers more college and upper middle class stores for local consumers and the plaza level has more retail and offices. Garden Street Terraces and Chinatown also bring in more condos and hotels to increase sales in downtown. There also going to building a public art statue and adding art decals along downtown to beautify the area from the city collecting an art tax from developers who rather include art in the shopping center or pay into the art account of SLO.
    you still don't get it... please...think outside of slo. 90% of this board has never been there (and there is no such thing as an "art" tax).

    **sigh**
    Men do dumb $hit... it is what they do to correct the problem that counts.

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    Quote Originally posted by CPSURaf View post
    you still don't get it... please...think outside of slo. 90% of this board has never been there (and there is no such thing as an "art" tax).

    **sigh**
    Okay. So you want me to think outside of San Luis Obispo. I don't know of any other examples of areas like San Luis Obispo besides Santa Cruz. I know there's not an art tax, but that's the best way I could describe the developers having to pay into this art account if developers don't include art in their shopping centers.

    So should I explain San Luis Obispo better as an example or use cities people know as an example?
    Last edited by urban19; 23 Jun 2010 at 8:41 PM.

  7. #57
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    Quote Originally posted by urban19 View post
    Okay. So you want me to think outside of San Luis Obispo. I don't know of any other examples of areas like San Luis Obispo besides Santa Cruz. I know there's not an art tax, but that's the best way I could describe the developers having to pay into this art account if developers don't include art in their shopping centers.

    So should I explain San Luis Obispo better as an example or use cities people know as an example?
    BTW, SLO used to have two malls. The Central Coast Mall where the SLO Promenade is now and Madonna Plaza used to be a mall with a movie theater. Again, I still think Colony Square is going to be an open-air mall. Unless I see it doesn't have PacSun and all that, then it wouldn't be a mall. And it matters to me as a consumer and local in the area we get "a mall" in the area.
    http://www.google.com/imgres?imgurl=...26tbs%3Disch:1
    and a pic of the old movie theater:

    and Madonna Plaza today:


    And a pic of the SLO Promenade today:


    I also stumbled across this one person's rendering of Dalidio Ranch. It sounds very made up with a mono rail running to downtown and a sport complex and an interesting mix of retail and condos. But very interesting.

    Last edited by urban19; 23 Jun 2010 at 9:25 PM.

  8. #58
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    Quote Originally posted by urban19 View post
    I still think Colony Square is going to be an open-air mall.
    As the planner in charge of appearance review, as well as issuing part of the team issuing the final building permit, without out a shadow of a doubt,it is not a f**kin mall.

    Can someone remind me the topic again. It's like i am dealing with the tone deaf here.
    Men do dumb $hit... it is what they do to correct the problem that counts.

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    Quote Originally posted by CPSURaf View post
    As the planner in charge of appearance review, as well as issuing part of the team issuing the final building permit, without out a shadow of a doubt,it is not a f**kin mall.

    Can someone remind me the topic again. It's like i am dealing with the tone deaf here.
    It looks like the Marketplace mall in Bakersfield. A movie theater with clothing stores and restaurants surrounding a movie theater. Colony Square might not have 150,000 sq. ft., but it does at least have 50,000 sq. ft. of retail. All though most malls have their own website before they are built and Colony Square doesn't. I am starting to doubt this center will have PacSun and could have stores like Coldwater Creek and Wet Seal. What makes this center not a lifestyle center? I gave you reasons why I think it is.

  10. #60
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    The original topic was the future of the mall. How are retailers changing in different ways and re-inventing "malls" (in all their forms). 2 pages in it became the OP's typical thread asking whether project x is a lifestyle center or not...over and over and over and over and over.

    The thread was originally very engaging.
    "...I would never try to tick Hink off. He kinda intimidates me. He's quite butch, you know." - Maister

  11. #61
    Cyburbian Raf's avatar
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    Can your mom be a lifestyle center
    Men do dumb $hit... it is what they do to correct the problem that counts.

  12. #62
    OH....IO Hink's avatar
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    Your mom is a lifestyle center... ambiguously defined, easy on the eyes, full of tenants, and mostly illogical...

    ohhh!!!!

    **We could split this off and just do your mom jokes about different planning topics...hmmm **
    A common mistake people make when trying to design something completely foolproof is to underestimate the ingenuity of complete fools. -Douglas Adams

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    Fine I give up. I believe what I believe and you believe what you believe. I'm going back to the original topic.

    I think malls and certain classifications of shopping centers are going because stores and department stores will go in any type of shopping center these days. Sears, Macy's, and JCPenney's will go in strip malls. Factory outlet stores will go in enclosed malls. Enclosed mall stores will go in outlet malls. You can find all the mall stores you want on streets of small and large city's downtowns even. The mall used to be a place for recreation, but it's not anymore. Malls are primarily for shopping purposes now even though you will still see teens going their for fun. Theaters are going back into downtowns and clothing stores are going anywhere so the need to just have a mall for all that stuff is going out.

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