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Thread: Dumb road signs

  1. #1

    Dumb road signs

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    I see these plastered all over Ohio and Michigan (and no wonder with all the goddamn construction going on).

    Basically I have three problems with this sign. First of all, the amount of jail time is way out of proportion with the fine. If it had read "up to 15 years" then it would have been different. But 15 years? I've seen people get less time for outright murder. Here they are saying you could just run over the guys' big toe and you're in the slammer till 2025.

    Secondly, it says "injure or kill a worker" - same fine. The means if you hit him you might as well kill him because the fine will be exactly the same.

    But perhaps most odious, is the fact that the sign fails to consider that the injury may be the construction worker's fault. Construction work is one of the most entitled jobs out there. They take chances, they pull out in traffic, they talk on cell phones while on the job. Basically, they act as if the construction site is their own personal little playground and act accordingly.

    I'm sure you've seen some of these workers acting pretty belligerent during the many times you've been snarled in traffic. (When they're not just lazing around that is). While it could be argued that reckless driving may cause the majority of the worker injuries, its certainly not too much of a stretch that a significant number are caused by the worker's own negligence or irresponsible behavior. The fact that the sign fails to consider that just argues all the more the sheer arrogance of the highway construction industry as well as the hypocrisy and arrogance of the agencies that award the construction contracts and make these signs.
    Last edited by Super Amputee Cat; 29 Aug 2010 at 1:44 PM.

  2. #2
    #2



    This sign is deceptive. Shouldn't it state ".07" instead?

    This sign is a take on the typical speed limit signs that you see, except that it has one serious flaw. Whereas if you go 55 MPH on a road with a posted 55MPH speed limit you are not breaking the law, if you have a .08 blood-alcohol reading you are legally drunk and therefore breaking the law.

    A lawyer defending a client that is busted for blowing exactly .08 could effectively argue that his client saw the "Alcohol Limit .08" sign, assume it was safe to be at that level - as going 55 in a 55 MPH zone would be - and therefore believed it was OK to drive.

    I have no problem with the sign in principal, but it should state Alcohol Limit .07 because that is the highest blood-alcohol level you can register without being legally drunk.

  3. #3
    Cyburbia Administrator Dan's avatar
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    I should have taken pictures of the HUGE safety and fine warning signs that are now all along the Queen Elizabeth Way and 401 in southern Ontario. I managed to find one online, though.



    50 km/h over is 31 mph. Speed limits on expressways in Ontario are 100 km/h, or 62 mph. That means you're subject to a $10,000 fine for going 93 mph, which wasn't that out of the ordinary on the QEW just ten years ago.
    Growth for growth's sake is the ideology of the cancer cell. -- Edward Abbey

  4. #4
    Quote Originally posted by Dan View post
    I should have taken pictures of the HUGE safety and fine warning signs that are now all along the Queen Elizabeth Way and 401 in southern Ontario. I managed to find one online, though.



    50 km/h over is 31 mph. Speed limits on expressways in Ontario are 100 km/h, or 62 mph. That means you're subject to a $10,000 fine for going 93 mph, which wasn't that out of the ordinary on the QEW just ten years ago.
    Well, at least your sign states "Max." as in it could be less.

    Still, that's extremely harsh for 93MPH. There are people in Michigan who drive close to that every day. Plus, you have to go that fast on the 401. Otherwise you'll fall asleep from the boredom.

  5. #5
    Super Moderator kjel's avatar
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    Quote Originally posted by Super Amputee Cat View post
    Well, at least your sign states "Max." as in it could be less.

    Still, that's extremely harsh for 93MPH. There are people in Michigan who drive close to that every day. Plus, you have to go that fast on the 401. Otherwise you'll fall asleep from the boredom.
    NJ could get into the car auction business if they ever did this on the Turnpike.
    "He defended the cause of the poor and needy, and so all went well. Is that not what it means to know me?" Jeremiah 22:16

  6. #6
    Cyburbian Bubba's avatar
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    That is a poorly crafted sign. However...

    Quote Originally posted by Super Amputee Cat View post
    While it could be argued that reckless driving may cause the majority of the worker injuries, its certainly not too much of a stretch that a significant number are caused by the worker's own negligence or irresponsible behavior. The fact that the sign fails to consider that just argues all the more the sheer arrogance of the highway construction industry as well as the hypocrisy and arrogance of the agencies that award the construction contracts and make these signs.
    ...while I can't speak for the "highway construction industry", on behalf of the state DOT that used to employ me, and all the other state DOTs I have worked with, I'd like to take this opportunity to point out that you have no idea what you're talking about.
    I found you a new motto from a sign hanging on their wall…"Drink coffee: do stupid things faster and with more energy"

  7. #7
    Cyburbian
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    While most of my work is in the housing industry, I've also worked in a "highway construction" environment, and all I'll add is that Bubba was far too gentlemanly in his reply...
    Proudly spending today building the dilapidated housing stock of the 22nd century.

  8. #8
    Cyburbian
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    Quote Originally posted by digger View post
    While most of my work is in the housing industry, I've also worked in a "highway construction" environment, and all I'll add is that Bubba was far too gentlemanly in his reply...
    I spend time om major highway projects, and some that aren't so big. I agree with Bubba and digger. I don't see any behavior that is careless or negligent; highway construction workers are hard working and repsonsible, not only for themselves, but for the motorists who drive through construction zones.

  9. #9
    Quote Originally posted by Bubba View post
    That is a poorly crafted sign. However...



    ...while I can't speak for the "highway construction industry", on behalf of the state DOT that used to employ me, and all the other state DOTs I have worked with, I'd like to take this opportunity to point out that you have no idea what you're talking about.
    I never said it was the majority. Even if it's 5%, that's significant, because 1 in every 20 drivers will be railroaded for worker negligence. My beef is that the sign basically is saying the workers are holier and thou and can do no wrong. That the driver is always at fault and is a murderer.

    Again, the sheer arrogance and hypocrisy behind the sign's statement is absolutely sickening - second only to the absolute number of these signs plastered all over god's creation because of the ceaseless and teeth-gnashing construction that is taking place everywhere. ( I think it's all a conspiracy by cement lobbyists but that's for another thread.) And the fact that nobody has bothered to revise them after all these years.



    Here is a sign I have much less of a problem.(With the caveat that the speed limits are too low IMO). It merely states about workers being present, not that you automatically go to jail for 15 for hitting them regardless of whose at fault.
    Last edited by Super Amputee Cat; 30 Aug 2010 at 9:51 PM.

  10. #10
    Cyburbian
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    Have you ever stood still while 73,000 pounds of coal truck went past, 5 feet away at 55mph (in a 35 mph zone, even when no construction activity was taking place), with no more to protect you than a line of orange and white plastic barrels?

    Didn't think so...

    Do it for a couple of months and then come back and whine about the wording of some stupid sign.

    On edit: This happened about five miles from my home:
    http://www.post-gazette.com/regionst...rash1011p2.asp
    Last edited by digger; 30 Aug 2010 at 10:59 PM.
    Proudly spending today building the dilapidated housing stock of the 22nd century.

  11. #11
    Quote Originally posted by digger View post
    Have you ever stood still while 73,000 pounds of coal truck went past, 5 feet away at 55mph (in a 35 mph zone, even when no construction activity was taking place), with no more to protect you than a line of orange and white plastic barrels?

    Didn't think so...

    Do it for a couple of months and then come back and whine about the wording of some stupid sign.
    Sure, for $50+/hour that most of they guys are making, at least in Ohio, not to mention the triple overtime, yada yada yada.

    Ohio's construction speed limit is ridiculous. 45MPH. One western state we were had a sign that said: "Construction Zone: Speed Limit 60" That was higher than our regular speed limit at the time.

    Maybe you live in an area that doesn't have teeth-gnashing construction traffic 7/24/365. If you had to drive through the endless $hit that I do, you'd change your tune real quick.

  12. #12
    maudit anglais
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    SAC maybe you should just relax and take bus instead.

  13. #13
    Cyburbian Bubba's avatar
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    Quote Originally posted by Super Amputee Cat View post
    I never said it was the majority.
    Err...good on you, mate. I never said you did.

    Quote Originally posted by Super Amputee Cat View post
    Even if it's 5%, that's significant, because 1 in every 20 drivers will be railroaded for worker negligence. My beef is that the sign basically is saying the workers are holier and thou and can do no wrong. That the driver is always at fault and is a murderer.
    ZOMG!!! TEH DRIVERS EVERYWHERE ARE GOING TO TEH PRISON FOR TEH STUFF THEY DIDN'T DO!!1!

    That's not what the sign says (although, as I've stipulated, it is a poorly crafted sign), and that's not what the law says. In Ohio, the law specifies that the fines/sentences noted by the signs are intended for:

    the prohibitions set forth in sections 2903.06 and 2903.08 of the Revised Code regarding the death of or injury to any person in a construction zone as a proximate result of a reckless operation offense or speeding offense.
    Need that translated into plain English? If the accident isn't caused by your reckless driving, and is indeed the fault of the worker, then you're not subject to the fines and jail time.

    No one is getting railroaded, and the construction workers aren't holier than thou and capable of no wrong. Relax, dude. Seriously. You're a stroke risk.

    Quote Originally posted by Super Amputee Cat View post
    Again, the sheer arrogance and hypocrisy behind the sign's statement is absolutely sickening - second only to the absolute number of these signs plastered all over god's creation because of the ceaseless and teeth-gnashing construction that is taking place everywhere.
    The signs are posted because they have to be - the increased fines are only applicable to work zones that display the signs. As for "the sheer arrogance and hypocrisy behind the sign's statement is absolutely sickening"...again - relax, dude. Seriously. There are bigger things out there to get worked up over.

    Final note - safety is taken very seriously at road construction sites. It is dangerous, dangerous work. Folks don't "act as if the construction site is their own personal little playground and act accordingly." If you can't wrap your head around this, go work a widening project for a couple of months...or start riding the bus.
    I found you a new motto from a sign hanging on their wall…"Drink coffee: do stupid things faster and with more energy"

  14. #14
    Cyburbian
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    Quote Originally posted by Super Amputee Cat View post
    Maybe you live in an area that doesn't have teeth-gnashing construction traffic 7/24/365. If you had to drive through the endless $hit that I do, you'd change your tune real quick.
    Greater Pittsburgh PA. Arguably the orange barrel capital of the world. Ask kms.

    Sure, for $50+/hour that most of they guys are making, at least in Ohio, not to mention the triple overtime,
    Source for that figure?

    Ohio's construction speed limit is ridiculous. 45MPH.
    So, if we do the math, it takes a minute and 20 seconds to travel a mile, whereas at 60mph, it'd take only a minute. A five mile long construction area would take a whole 100 seconds more out of your life at 45 mph than it would at 60. There's a speed limit designed protect the entire remaining lifespan of a highway construction worker, and you have a problem with it taking 100 seconds out of your life? And you call them arrogant??

    Quote Originally posted by Bubba
    Need that translated into plain English? If the accident isn't caused by your reckless driving, and is indeed the fault of the worker, then you're not subject to the fines and jail time....
    Thanks, Bubba for clearing that up.

    It would seem to me that anybody who would argue that running over a worker's big toe could conceivably result in a 15 year jail term is either a blithering idiot, or guilty of indulging in shameless hyperbole.

    Giving the benefit of the doubt, and assuming that hyperbole is the order of the day, let me indulge in a little of my own--at least here in PA, the law doubling fines in active work zones came in response to one or several high profile fatalities of highway construction workers. It may have been the incident in the article I linked to above, or it may have been the accident that killed my sister's boyfriend's 19-year-old little sister, or it may have been another one, or more. The point is that that sign, and the law that mandates it, are written in blood. Blood shed by highway workers.

    Or maybe that's not hyperbole at all....
    Last edited by digger; 31 Aug 2010 at 9:21 PM. Reason: spelling error
    Proudly spending today building the dilapidated housing stock of the 22nd century.

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